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Author Topic: Revolution Specs on IGN - Less Powerful than the Xbox 1  (Read 4936 times)
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depward
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« Reply #80 on: March 31, 2006, 04:49:14 AM »

Quote from: "Hetz"
Every "casual gamer" that I know, loves the puzzle games on Xbox Live Arcade. I show them the Nintendo commerical of the people pointing the remotes at the screen, they go "What the hell is that?" and laugh. First Impressions mean a lot and when people first see that remote looking controler, they say WTF and laugh. Not good.

Have you really done that, or are you kidding?
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #81 on: March 31, 2006, 05:12:18 AM »

Quote from: "Hetz"
No, I'm not talking about old classics. Yes, those are available as well, but I'm talking about new games. Puzzle games, simple arcade style games like Feeding Frenzy. Those kind of games appeal to casual gamers.



The most excitement I've seen regarding a potential Live Arcade release is Street Figher 2 not anything "new".  Geometry Wars is without a doubt the hottest thing that Live Arcade currently has going but are you going to tell me with a straight face that there is a sizable number of people shelling out $400 for a 360 to pay GW who aren't already predisposed towards current console offerings?  

But hey why don't you just tell us why you think all of your criticisms at the Revolution (especially the whole casuals think it looks stupid) doesn't apply equally to the DS?  And more specifically something like Nintendogs which has managed to sell something like 1.5 million in the US alone yet most people seemingly wouldn't be caught dead playing?  

For the life of me I can't understand why people seem to think that just because Nintendo isn't targeting them personally (ie the current gamer whether casual or hardcore)that there might not be a sizable currently untapped market?  And Nintendo ain't the only one who thinks that market is there.  As you point out, Live Arcade, and more specifically J Allard's infamous "Velocity Girl" pitch are aimed squarely at the people who aren't playing current console games at all too.  

Nintendo isn't targeting casual gamers as we think of them (ie the people who own only one console and buy only a few games a year and rent a few more). Sony and MS are effectively fighting over the current approximately 140 million console owners out there plus a normal growth rate.  Nintendo, on the other hand, is hoping to maybe attract a few percent of the other billion or so households that have yet show any interest in console gaming.  And really what are either Sony or MS offering that is significant enough to get people to bite now when they didn't in the last two generations?  Is GRAW, Oblivion, Gears of War, Halo 3, MGS4, GTA 4, and anything else really going to bring new gamers to the fold en masse, especially with prices of the hardware and games going up?  My gut tells me no.
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« Reply #82 on: March 31, 2006, 05:20:48 AM »

Quote from: "Bullwinkle"
Of course, it does still seem that there are tricks up N's sleeve:

Quote
Resnick had other comments as well. "The Revolution is a very different platform," he said, "and we've actually just seen some things behind closed doors that are just mind-blowing. Very very exciting. They're doing something that's very different and unique." Considering the controller has been public knowledge for months, with certain members of the press having received hands on demos, it's safe to assume Resnick is referring to some other as yet unmentioned functionality. Nintendo president Satoru Iwata has hinted that there are still surprises left in store to be unveiled at E3, but it's a bit more convincing to hear from a third party source that these suprises will in fact be interesting.


...and that's why I really don't care to judge the system until I know exactly just what the hell the features of the thing are, and I've tried them out myself.
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Hetz
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« Reply #83 on: March 31, 2006, 05:21:59 AM »

Quote from: "depward"
Quote from: "Hetz"
Every "casual gamer" that I know, loves the puzzle games on Xbox Live Arcade. I show them the Nintendo commerical of the people pointing the remotes at the screen, they go "What the hell is that?" and laugh. First Impressions mean a lot and when people first see that remote looking controler, they say WTF and laugh. Not good.

Have you really done that, or are you kidding?


Yes, I have shown people that goofy commercial. They thought it was one of the stupidest things they had ever seen.
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« Reply #84 on: March 31, 2006, 05:42:52 AM »

Kevin.  I usually agree with your posts.  But I just don't think that Nintendo's strategy will work as you say.  Being able to play retro games seems to be targeted at people who have an appreciation and fondness for those games. Not people who have never owned a console before. Of the millions of households who have never owned a game console, how many of them will be motivated to look into getting one to go along with that new High Def TV they just purchased?  Personally I think HD TVs will be among the most popular tech toys in the coming years as the prices drop and people become exposed to the wonders of HD TV.  My in-laws were motivated to purchase a HD TV recently after viewing the NCAA tournament on mine.  When told that the Revolution does not support HD I believe that will turn off as many people as the low price point might attract.  Nintendo completely missed the boat on online play with the Gamecube and now I fear thay are doing the same with High Def and the Revolution. It seems to me the people who will be most interested in the Revolution are hard core gamers who recognize what "Gameplay over graphics" truly means, and fans of old Nintendo franchises.  The big Nintendo franchises mean next to nothing to people who have never owned a console.  I think Nintendo's nitch will be as a second console to gamers who are "hard core" enough to actually own more than one.  Not people who are console virgins.  But I guess time will tell.  I for one am rooting for them.  I will probably buy a Revolution before a PS3.  But I am hard core, and I already own a 360.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #85 on: March 31, 2006, 07:22:09 AM »

Quote from: "denoginizer"
Kevin. I usually agree with your posts. But I just don't think that Nintendo's strategy will work as you say. Being able to play retro games seems to be targeted at people who have an appreciation and fondness for those games.


Two different things- my point on the virtual console was just that it is offering a very similiar service to what Xbox Live Arcade offers.  But, yeah, that's not really going to bring in complete non-gamers on a large scale.  I expect that aspect is exactly where the low price point combined with a controller that would likely be more intuitive to non-gamers come in as well as games designed around this interface.  Think things like Nintendogs and Brain Training- both enormous successes by tapping into non-traditional gaming demographics (young children, women for Nintendogs and older adults with Brain Training) and both easy to use even if you've never picked up a game controller. Or think Guitar Hero again- pretty intuitive to anyone with even remote familiarity with how a guitar works.  

I don't know if the strategy will work (no one does obviously).  But I do think it's smart.  Let me ask this- short of giving up hardware all together, what's the alternative from Nintendo?  What could they possibly offer in a conventional sense next generation that would cause people to switch from Sony or Microsoft.  Better hardware?  Better online support?  Could they really build a system that does those signficantly better than Sony and MS?    They could match both of them feature for feature and there still isn't incentive to get a Revolution over the other two short of Nintendo's tradtional first party support.  And for those who are interested in those traditional properties (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc) they will likely get a Revolution anyway thanks to the low pricepoint even if they could care less about the non-traditional offerings on the system.  

I don't think that a low pricepoint can be stressed enough here- if you are going to try and target non-traditonal demographics and get them to take a chance then you are much more lilkely to succeed if the risk (ie the cost) isn't very great.  This isn't analagous to Gamecube either since that system was specifically built to compete with the tradtional gamer demographic to begin with.  If you want HD support then you have to beef up the processor, RAM, etc and that pricepoint advantage goes away.  Just look at the number of "at $150 I'll be picking it up Day 1" comments in this and many other threads.  Do you think that those comments would be nearly as widespread if the price was $250?
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« Reply #86 on: March 31, 2006, 12:10:59 PM »

And I don't think you can discount the virtual console,

/anecdotal evidence

When I worked at EBgames, I clearly remembered parent after parent commenting on how they loved those old games and couldn't quite grasp what their kids were playing. These are the people who spend $20 bucks at christmas to buy the illegal controller with all the illegal roms in it. Those things allways sell well in the holidays and people love them and what they offer.

/anecdotal evidence off

Also, hetz, while I appreciate that you're showing other the "commercial", first: it's anecdotal evidence which never holds any real weight, two: no one here know how you prefaced it, you could've easily said "hey! look at this stupid video!" and Third: Since no one in the public owns or has played this machine it's really tough to judge, eh?
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« Reply #87 on: March 31, 2006, 12:21:15 PM »

so,they are saying that it will be less powerful than the last xbox 1?.....

i thought that the gamecube was a great machine,so i guess anything better than that...would be...........better :?

but how will it be next gen?,are they still gonna call it next gen?

wont kids just rather buy an xbox1?

still,if there will be no other console that you see mario and zelda and metroid and starfox,i will definetly still be getting one
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« Reply #88 on: March 31, 2006, 01:17:17 PM »

Quote from: "Hetz"
Yes, I have shown people that goofy commercial. They thought it was one of the stupidest things they had ever seen.

And I've shown that video to my friends and coworkers and they all thought it was one of the coolest, unique things they have ever seen.

Everything is relative.

A third quote saved for future posting.  :wink:
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« Reply #89 on: March 31, 2006, 01:36:05 PM »

Quote from: "metallicorphan"
so,they are saying that it will be less powerful than the last xbox 1?.....

i thought that the gamecube was a great machine,so i guess anything better than that...would be...........better :?

but how will it be next gen?,are they still gonna call it next gen?

wont kids just rather buy an xbox1?

still,if there will be no other console that you see mario and zelda and metroid and starfox,i will definetly still be getting one



Exactly.  No kids won't just buy an xbox 1 because they want to play one of the games you mentioned.

Not every gamer is obsessed with processing power/graphics.  Looking at the excitement over Space Rangers 2 for the PC shows that gamers are interested (and thristy for) good games even if they don't have the cutting edge grapics, etc.
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« Reply #90 on: March 31, 2006, 01:44:55 PM »

I am hopeful and worried about the Rev.

I think, unquestionably, that the Rev has the potential to just freaking OWN the FPS genre. I just can't play them on consoles with the 2 sticks. I just can't get the hand of that scheme. The rev controller *might* be able to play those games even *better* than a PC mouse/keyboard combo. But, they have to actually be MADE for the system. Other than the new Metroid Prime will they come?

I also am excited about the potential of the controller. It could allow a lot more PC type games to come out for a home console and have more of a PC interface. But, will those games be made? I doubt Nintendo will make them, so will others?

I also see Rev being able to play games unlike anything we've played before. But, they have to be fun, and they have to come up with a lot of them. Who will?

I do think the low price point is a good idea, but how low will it be? People speculate $150-200. Nintendo has only said "less than $300". I really think it needs to be $150 at most to really significantly have a price advantage that matters.

But the question is 3rd party support. Will the new controller and lower dev costs be enough to get 3rd party developers to make many orders of magnitude more games for Rev than they did for the cube? I just don't think anyone knows at this point. If they do, I could see Rev doing very well. If not, I could see it bombing big time. With the new Zelda essentially being a Rev "launch" title now (despite still being playable on the cube) I can now see me being an early adopter. (What can I say? I'm a total mark for Zelda.) I hope I don't get burned.

I would be astonished if there isn't a Mario (the long rumored "Mario 128") as another launch for the Rev. So, I hope we'll see it at E3, and I really hope they've come up with a cool new way to play it with the Rev remote. If I'm right, that would mean they would have a Mario, Metroid, AND (sort of) a Zelda at launch. That would be unprecedented, and I think would *really* make it seem like a very strong selection of launch titles no matter what else is available. I think this would be smart, as the best way for Nintendo to get lots of 3rd party support is to have a very successful holiday launch. And, I think 3rd party support will do more to help or hurt Rev than virtually anything else.

As far as the horsepower thing goes, the article pretty much goes along with what Nintendo has said all along. It will be about twice as powerful as a cube. We'll see if that ends up being enough.
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« Reply #91 on: March 31, 2006, 02:34:00 PM »

Cheap games, classic games, cheap price, solid Nintendo titles, potentially cool controller, sounds like a solid system.  At the same price as the 360 or PS3 it'd lose, but if its a quarter of the price, I can see which setup parents will buy.

I will be disappointed if there isn't at least component hookups.
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« Reply #92 on: March 31, 2006, 02:48:53 PM »

Quote from: "Devil"

Nintendo is making money!!  biggrin



QFT


I still think too many here are giving Nintendo a pass.  Lets be honest most gamers especially young gamers like pretty graphics.  

I understand that Nintendo is taking a risk, but it could fall on its face like the Dreamcast.  Awesome system and before its time, but it failed BADLY.  

Anyway, with the Deathgrip Nintendo has on the handheld market they can take this risk .  Cause as someone has said

Quote from: "Devil"

Nintendo is making money!!  biggrin



Especially in Japan where Nintendo can really do no wrong
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« Reply #93 on: March 31, 2006, 02:53:57 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Hetz"
No, I'm not talking about old classics. Yes, those are available as well, but I'm talking about new games. Puzzle games, simple arcade style games like Feeding Frenzy. Those kind of games appeal to casual gamers.


The most excitement I've seen regarding a potential Live Arcade release is Street Figher 2 not anything "new".  Geometry Wars is without a doubt the hottest thing that Live Arcade currently has going but are you going to tell me with a straight face that there is a sizable number of people shelling out $400 for a 360 to pay GW who aren't already predisposed towards current console offerings?  


See, and this is where I pull out the "I can see Hetz's point" card. The 360's platform isn't BASED on nostalgia, it's a nice little surprise. It's allowing a hardcore or even casual "gamer" to bring in their friends and family. Wives around the globe may not be impressed with their husbands' GRAW or Gears of War (this is a gross generalization Moriarty, please forgive the stereotype), however it DOES play games that may cater to their personal interests.

Some people buy the bigger bottle of perfume to get the $3 handbag in a gift box; this stuff does move product regardless of the true value.

Selling that $3 handbag on it's own isn't going to necessarily see the same commercial success.

This is where MS is likely going to succeed. They may not own the little-game market right away, but they're planting the seed. MS has always been a forward thinking company, and have proven that they're willing to lose a little to win.

That's not to say that Hetz is right on the big N front failing, (OMGWTFTIVO=DOA!!11!!eleventyone1!1) but just because they're pushing innovation that they're going to succeed. *cough*virtualboy*cough**cough*gameglove*hack**cough*
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« Reply #94 on: March 31, 2006, 03:52:24 PM »

People throughout this thread keep talking about a nebulous "untapped gaming market" and the "casual gamer" demographic.  Is it just me, or does Nintendo seem poised to bring back family gaming?

I have fond memories of everyone gathered around the TV taking turns with Pac-Man and Frogger on the 2600.  Playing against eachother in Pong and Combat.  Whether calling "I've got the winner" in what amounted to the video game equivalent of "king of the hill" or rooting eachother on, the whole family was involved - kids, parents, and grandparents (My grandfater killed many a Space Invader).  Some of this was due to the newness of video gaming.  Alot of this was due to the lack of multiple-television households at the time.  We still took turns with Super Mario Brothers and Duck Hunt, but it was the kids in the back room on a second TV.  While still communal, it wasn't "family."

With Mario Party on the Gamecube, Nintendo has crafted a franchise that, for my family, has brought back the essence of family gaming.  So much so that even my mother looks forward to the next release.  Sure, arthritis in her fingers makes certain mini games tougher than others, but she still gets a great kick out of having the family together, competing, laughing, and having a good time.  Super Smash Brothers and Mario Kart serve similar purposes for many families.  Sales numbers for all three franchises show that Nintendo's on to something here.

Take a look at the video that Hetz so proudly proclaims as the definitive litmus test of the Revolution's viability.  Yes, you've got a bunch of people looking directly at the camera acting silly to show the potential of the controller.  But what else do you see?  PEOPLE.  And lots of 'em.  There were few instances of lone players, instead favoring two or more folks laughing, teasing, and having a good time.  All within arms reach of eachother.  When was the last time you saw anything but cut-scenes and gameplay footage from Microsoft or Sony?

I don't think it's a stretch to say that neither Microsoft or Sony care about multi-player gaming within the same household.  Yes, they're all over multi-player on a global scale, but four players sharing a screen is virtually anathema.  They're so focused on emulating computer gaming in the living room (and taking over your entertainment center while there), that they're also emulating the lone player aspect of the genre.  If my family wants to race eachother in Project Gotham Racing, I need four TVs and four 360s.  Which, I don't know about you guys, but it's way out of my budget.

I've gone a bit long here, but other signs I see as good things for the Revolution's potential success in this context...

  • Controller - granted, I have no first-hand experience with it, but it looks far more intuitive and far less problematic for old and/or arthritic fingers to get a hang of.  Makes it easier for whole families to participate.
  • Price - Board games are expensive, take time to set up, and don't hold attention like they used to.  Microsoft and Sony require the purchase of multiple higher-priced consoles.  If I'm looking for something the family can play together, the Revolution's (alleged) cost looks like a great buy to me.
  • Rhythm - Nothing draws a crowd like rhythm games, and if you're looking to tap into a family/party market this would be a genre you'd have to target.  Lowered graphics potential doesn't matter to this market, and lowered development costs can only help attract the third parties already in this space.
  • Dev Costs - One of the biggest complaints within the industry, and the primary reason for the propogation of sequels.  If you're gonna try something new, why not try it where you have the least to lose?
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« Reply #95 on: March 31, 2006, 04:05:28 PM »

Quote from: "CrayolaSmoker"

With Mario Party on the Gamecube, Nintendo has crafted a franchise that, for my family, has brought back the essence of family gaming.  So much so that even my mother looks forward to the next release.  Sure, arthritis in her fingers makes certain mini games tougher than others, but she still gets a great kick out of having the family together, competing, laughing, and having a good time.  Super Smash Brothers and Mario Kart serve similar purposes for many families.  Sales numbers for all three franchises show that Nintendo's on to something here.[/list]


That's just it though - this supposedly "new" approach they're taking with the Revolution is really nothing of the sort... as you pointed out, they've been marketing these "party"-type games for a decade or more. Yet their marketshare has been continually falling in the home.  What's going to be so radically different this go-round?
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« Reply #96 on: April 01, 2006, 04:40:37 AM »

This doesn't change anyone's real estimate about the next generation consoles:

-Nintendo falls to a clear third position
-MS gains ground on Sony
-Sony remains king of the next generation
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« Reply #97 on: April 01, 2006, 12:19:52 PM »

your statement begs the question. I disagree with your percieved Sony FTW. They've let their footing slip; it is currently an undetermined "fact" that Sony will be the winner this generation.

They have to earn it, and that's where I think this falls down. Sony's confidence in their new product doesn't necessarily translate to top selling. They will hold impressive marketshare, but I think it may be too early to be handing out crowns.
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