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Author Topic: Revolution's revolution a tilt controller?  (Read 2355 times)
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Destructor
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« on: September 15, 2005, 05:33:23 PM »

Ripped from somewhere else (and the site hosting this pic wasn't the original owner of it, either):




Notice the funky symbol at the bottom middle (where it says software)? That's not your normal 'push controller stick to choose' symbol. Instead, that  llooks like a 'tilt the entire controller to choose' symbol.

So, the Revolution's 'revolutionary' thing will be a built-in tilt controller? I could see it being kinda cool and used well. Imagine being able to move your character by tilting the controller, and then controlling the camera or something else with the analog stick.

Make of it what you will.
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2005, 05:36:07 PM »

Cool concept. Don't know if it does anything for me.

Let's say your heavy into a boss battle that takes precision concentration of the controller and you sneeze. Dead.

What if you get mad and throw the thing. Who knows what your character would do!
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2005, 05:38:42 PM »

I'm guess that folks missed the announcement last week that Nintendo bought these guys:

http://www.gamecubicle.com/news-nintendo_gyration.htm

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1128548,00.asp

http://www.gyration.com/files/demos/Remote_web_German.wmv

http://www.gyration.com/files/demos/Mouse_web_German.wmv

Just to give you an example of what you could do with the technology - imagine playing a FPS where you hold a controller in your left hand to move, and use the controller in your right hand like you are actually holding the gun...
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2005, 05:51:13 PM »

Quote from: "ATB"
Let's say your heavy into a boss battle that takes precision concentration of the controller and you sneeze. Dead.

What if you get mad and throw the thing. Who knows what your character would do!

ROFL

And Dimmona - actually, I missed reading those articles somehow. Sounds like a really neat mouse design. Seems so...weird, to use, but so simple at the same time.
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2005, 06:05:29 PM »

I've got two words.

Point

Less

When you put them together (even if you hold em in two hands) its a gimmick.  Thats my 2 cents until I can try it out for myself.
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2005, 06:22:57 PM »

Logitech had tilt controllers for the PC.  They sensed the tilt movement fairly well, but it was hard to use them in games.  It was difficult to keep them perfectly flat to prevent movement, which made running then trying to stop tough.  Accuracy in games was tough too, as usually you have to be very precise.

The biggest killer was that using the controller was a lot more fatiguing then just pushing analog sticks, as you had to suspend it.  It takes a lot more arm/wrist movement with a tilt controller.

Nintendo is pretty good at this stuff, but I can't see this being any more then a gimmick.
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2005, 07:52:33 PM »

If they show interesting games that made use of this then I'll pay some attetnion to it. For now I see a gimmick.
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2005, 08:08:30 PM »

Like most nintendo stuff it seems completely gimmicky-and as someone pointed out-it sounds like the thing that could only make some games that much more frustrating due to the oddities of the tilt resistance. Either way, I am not really seeing the revolution here smile
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2005, 08:17:25 PM »

Whatever the "revolutionary" aspect of the controller is, I'm sure it will work well.  No matter what Nintendo does, no matter how wacky it is, it's usually mechanically sound.  

When I heard about a touch screen, I groaned and thought of the non-responsive, push really hard and accurately, clucky interfaces we see at many atms.  Same thing when I heard about the tilt mechanism used in the last Wario Ware game, which worked out well.


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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2005, 08:26:27 PM »

Well well well, you guys are throwing the ol' gimmick title at Nintendo again.  I remeber before the DS launched and right after it came out, many readers in this forum dismissed it as a "gimmick."  How many of you now own a DS?  Thats what I thought.  So I would say, wait until it comes out before you throw the gimmick title at it.  Nintendo proved you wrong once, and I firmly believe they will do it again.
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2005, 08:29:19 PM »

Owned a DS since day one and STILL say it's a gimmick.
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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2005, 08:35:37 PM »

Quote from: "Devil"
Owned a DS since day one and STILL say it's a gimmick.

Yeah but it's a gimmick with Advance Wars DS baby!!! woo!!!!!!
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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2005, 08:51:01 PM »

I guess I should have said negatively labeled it as nothing but a gimmick.
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2005, 09:36:38 PM »

I used to throw the "g" word out about the DS.

I am now wholly convinced that whatever new innovation Nintendo is going to give us, it's going to work out very well.  

Plus, does every DS game *require* the use of the "gimmick?"  Nope, not every DS game requires control to be handled by the touchscreen.

I'm all for making controller's more than just buttons and sticks.  The more features, the more potential innovation.  And whatever you guys label Nintendo, you can't fault them for trying to add a spin (punny!) to the next-generation of consoles.
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2005, 09:55:31 PM »

Quote from: "Shifter"
Whatever the "revolutionary" aspect of the controller is, I'm sure it will work well.  No matter what Nintendo does, no matter how wacky it is, it's usually mechanically sound.  

See the digital pad (all consoles before the NES were simply a joystick that I can remember), the SNES controller (the 4 face buttons and L+R are still a 'standard' nowadays), the N64 controller (use of an analog stick), the Rumble Pack (used in all consoles), and the DS (something that people said would never work but did).

Yes, I know that some of my comments have been debunked before, but Nintendo is still thought off most often when it comes to wacky ideas. And short of ROB (although he was designed to make the NES look something other than a game console) and the Virtua Boy, everything has been a success for them.

All in all, I'll give Nintendo a chance no matter what they do.
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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2005, 11:20:41 PM »

That's it?  Just a gyroscopic controller?  Hardly sounds like the amazing super-secret technology it was all hyped up to be.  I'm not going to go so far as to label it a gimmick, but this isn't exactly revolutionary.  At most it could be considered a logical extension of controller technology, but hardly the kind of thing that will blow me away.  Hey, maybe the marketing drones can make me think it's the greatest thing ever but I'd say they've got an uphill battle.

It could be neat to use it like mouselook (up and down) or peeking around corners in MGS.  I guess I'll have to refine my contoller technique in order to remain completely motionless lest I accidentally go gyro all over the place.

They've done well making quite a few people wonder how they ever got along with only one screen so maybe this will be the next big thing...
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« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2005, 11:46:27 PM »

Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
I used to throw the "g" word out about the DS.

I am now wholly convinced that whatever new innovation Nintendo is going to give us, it's going to work out very well.  

Plus, does every DS game *require* the use of the "gimmick?"  Nope, not every DS game requires control to be handled by the touchscreen.

I'm all for making controller's more than just buttons and sticks.  The more features, the more potential innovation.  And whatever you guys label Nintendo, you can't fault them for trying to add a spin (punny!) to the next-generation of consoles.


Exactly!
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« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2005, 11:57:08 PM »

Nintendo Gyrotilt controller = Robbie the Robot

I'll just say it now and get it out of the way.  And no, I still don't own a DS.  I borrow one for reviews. smile
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« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2005, 12:10:38 AM »

Quote
I'm guess that folks missed the announcement last week that Nintendo bought these guys:


Those tech demo movies are pretty impressive as far as response to movement goes. What it looks like to me is that you can have smooth mouse style movement with a standard controller. If the real-world experience is anything like that it will be a vast improvement over the D-pad and analog sticks.

When using an analog stick in FPS I'm always annoyed at the jerky and impercise controls compared to how things are with a mouse. So if this holds out to be true I think we're in for a pretty good experience here.

There was another thread about one of the systems getting mouse support (PS3 maybe?) and how those who played FPS online using the mouse would have an advantage over those stuck using the controller. I can't see myself adding a mouse to my console as it defeats the purpose, nor do I want to use analog sticks, so this may turn out to be a pretty important compromise; Mouse like accuracy for standard console controllers without having to set up an area around your TV for a mouse/keyboard (bleh!)

So I'm hopeful this rings true to what is indicated here. So far it seems Nintendo is on the level with things ("Yes that's actual game footage" - Killzone 2 and http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php?date=2005-09-12&res=l) so maybe its as revoluntionary as they are leading on and its not more spin.
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« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2005, 12:30:29 AM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
Nintendo Gyrotilt controller = Robbie the Robot

I'll just say it now and get it out of the way.  And no, I still don't own a DS.  I borrow one for reviews. smile


Have you played Wario:Twisted?  That title gave me faith that a tilt based controller could have some awesome gameplay repercussions....
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« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2005, 01:29:20 AM »

"The biggest killer was that using the controller was a lot more fatiguing then just pushing analog sticks, as you had to suspend it. It takes a lot more arm/wrist movement with a tilt controller."
That's true.  I've used a tilt controller, and it was very awkward.  You can't just hold it like a regular controller.  You have to hold it out and away from you, not resting comfortably on your lap.  You also have to hold it level, lest you cause unintended movement.  Maybe it was just a bad controller, but I hope this isn't what the Revolution controller will be.
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« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2005, 01:37:32 AM »

I have a feeling we'll really know in about 45 minutes, as Iwata-san will give his Keynote at TGS, and Nintendo has been saying that we will learn more about the Revolution around this time.

I could only imagine gyro control being part of it.

I am actually surprised most people aren't commenting on the game in the picture. It's clearly titled as an adult oriented game and it looks like Nintendo is publishing it. Which is kind of odd.
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« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2005, 02:08:16 AM »

Quote from: "Tebunker"
I have a feeling we'll really know in about 45 minutes, as Iwata-san will give his Keynote at TGS, and Nintendo has been saying that we will learn more about the Revolution around this time.

I could only imagine gyro control being part of it.

I am actually surprised most people aren't commenting on the game in the picture. It's clearly titled as an adult oriented game and it looks like Nintendo is publishing it. Which is kind of odd.


Keep us updated. So far the early info-probably very incomplete-is very underwhelming.
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« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2005, 02:13:23 AM »

well consider this, IGN has a NDA that expires at 7:50pm PST. So I figure we'll get a boatload of info between 10:50 and 11pm EST tonight. Hopefully it's a pleasant surprise and not the usual underwhelming sigh that Nintendo has practically trademarked this generation.
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« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2005, 02:17:26 AM »

Anybody got a line on a direct feed of the keynote?
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« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2005, 02:43:53 AM »

well the cat is out of the bag, IGN will have hi-res shots, and hands on impressions in about 10 minutes or so. Looks like Nintendo is showing the world what makes the revolution so.


Okay so it's not twisting so much as detecting where you point it. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. Itwata says it will work as easy as a TV remote. Hopefully not as difficult as a Sony remote commander... smile

I believe the controller still has all the standards buttons etc so that it can play any and all legacy games. The usual bunch of Japanese devs are on board stating that they like it, and are excited. Square, Konami, Capcom, Namco and you know the list.

I stand corrected, you attach what parts you want to the controller. So far it seems that Nintendo will ship the controller with an analog stick attachment.


1up has images up right now. I am not sure how I feel. It looks freaking crazy.
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« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2005, 02:51:05 AM »

BADASS

"Controller acts like a mouse in real-space 3D. Pefect for FPS games!"

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!  How COOL!
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« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2005, 02:58:16 AM »

I think the concept is very cool, but given the way that controller looks, I find it almost inconceivable that it will actually work well with more than a couple genres of games, not to mention the fact that it looks bulky, imprecise, and incredibly illsuited for stuff like FPS's.

Well, I am sure my impressions might change completely after I actually get a chance to hold it and see how it works, but from those pictures to be very blunt I am entirely underwhelmed and I think the thing looks phenomenally ugly.
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« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2005, 02:00:32 PM »

So you've got to hold your hand out the entire time you're playing?  Not sure I like that too much.  I don't really get it.  i'm sure some killer app will come along to show me why this is a good thing.
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« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2005, 02:03:34 PM »

I won't speculate on the new Nintendo controller but, to go slightly off topic, I will say that the Gyration mice are a favorite in the HTPC community. It isn't a gimmick at all in that market and the mice are quite ergonomic.

Now, the question is will Nintendo take all of the good things from this technology and make something useful for a next-generation console system? That remains to be seen.

- David
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« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2005, 06:38:01 PM »

I actually think this is going to work based on what I'm seeing and reading. For me its pretty much a breath of fresh air since the last few generations of consoles have pretty much been the same, just faster and better graphics in their new iterations. It looks like this control scheme may give companies an oppertunity to create some unique games rather than the traditonal carbon copies.

But I also think this is going to alienate quite a few people who want that traditional console system. My guess is there is going to be a "regular" style controller upon release as well.

I am curious about how much it weighs though. I can see resting it on your lap and still using it but if it isn't light weight its still going to take its toll on the wrists. Guess its a trade off from the thumbs.
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« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2005, 06:45:18 PM »

I got to thinking, and everyone has been saying that this will allow Developers to innovate......to that I ask... when is the last time a developer actually tried to innovate?  The games that are unique and innovative usually are met with horrible sales, so developers continue to go with tried and true concepts.  I think it is going to be hard to get developers to embrace this wacky controller and take full advantage of it outside of first party titles... which means what 2 titles a year given nintendo's release pacing?
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