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Author Topic: Resident Evil 4 sucks. You know it is true.  (Read 7405 times)
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« on: February 12, 2006, 10:36:59 PM »

Based on all the hype here I bought Resident Evil 4 for the Gamecube for $20.  I'd had less than stellar experiences with previous Resident Evil games but the rallying cry for this game is "It's better!  It's what Resident Evil should have been!"  Well I played it for a couple hours last night and it sucks.  Good God what the hell are you people smoking??

Item #1: Unless I missed it somewhere my guy can't run.  Can't run?  From a horde of screaming villagers and I have to walk slowly?  Please!  At least let me skip a little.  After all I am in France.

Item #2: Why the hell can't I strafe?  I walk up to a doorway on my side.  I know there's a bad guy in there because I can sorta see him.  Can I slide to the open doorway and take him out?  No.  Didn't shooters from the mid-90's have strafing?

Item #3: Why am I still feeling like I'm controlling a boat when my character moves?  Turning is slow unless you use the 180 turn move.  The doorway example again: I have to walk beside the open doorway with my side exposed because I can't strafe.  Then I have to turn my character slowly to the open doorway meanwhile the cheese-eating surrender monkey has noticed me and is sticking a pitchfork in my neck.  Great.  Thanks.

Item #4: So I can walk or I can shoot but I can't do both?  Again game designers from the mid-90's are calling and they want to kick the developers asses.  Seriously there's no good reason for it.  Make my aiming less accurate if I'm moving but at least let me walk backwards while shooting.  It's just a mind-bogglingly poor design decision.

Item #5: For the love of God not typewriters again?  Let me save my game when I want to ok?  Again this is the new millenium - program in the ability to fucking save-anywhere.  I don't want to repeat sections over and over again because the game is artificially made difficult by the stupid controls.

Item #6: I understand the game is scary and I was actually looking forward to that part.  What I can't stand is developers who make the scary part of the game be the fighting the controls. Hordes of zombies or pissed off French villagers I can handle as long as I can fucking back away while I'm shooting at them.  Give me a control scheme that doesn't get in the way.  Give me one that doesn't artificially increase the difficulty level.  Make the enemies and the atmosphere scary or difficult - not the fucking control scheme.

I hate this game.  It fixes some things from the previous Resident Evil games but doesn't go nearly far enough.  It's like it can't decide whether it wants to be a first or third-person shooter so instead it settles for a bizarre and weak compromise between the two.  How was this Game of the Year material?  Someone's been drinking the Kool-Aid.
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« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2006, 10:48:03 PM »

I tried this game...4 times. I hate it. Its a bad video game that doesn't look as good as people think it does.

Quote
Item #1: Unless I missed it somewhere my guy can't run. Can't run? From a horde of screaming villagers and I have to walk slowly? Please! At least let me skip a little. After all I am in France.
Werd.

Quote
Item #2: Why the hell can't I strafe? I walk up to a doorway on my side. I know there's a bad guy in there because I can sorta see him. Can I slide to the open doorway and take him out? No. Didn't shooters from the mid-90's have strafing?
Yes, but Capcom insists on using a terrible ass backwards movement system that never gets better-thus the mess of RE4.

Quote
Item #3: Why am I still feeling like I'm controlling a boat when my character moves? Turning is slow unless you use the 180 turn move. The doorway example again: I have to walk beside the open doorway with my side exposed because I can't strafe. Then I have to turn my character slowly to the open doorway meanwhile the cheese-eating surrender monkey has noticed me and is sticking a pitchfork in my neck. Great. Thanks.
Turning is not slow, its glacially slow. Its painfully slow. Its stupid slow. Its not challenging, or skillful, its difficult for the sake of difficulty. It's stupid.

Quote
Item #4: So I can walk or I can shoot but I can't do both? Again game designers from the mid-90's are calling and they want to kick the developers asses. Seriously there's no good reason for it. Make my aiming less accurate if I'm moving but at least let me walk backwards while shooting. It's just a mind-bogglingly poor design decision.
No, see, why would they let you do this? It would allow a whole host of other tactical options otherwise not available, it would make combat more interesting and fun, but would take away from the cojmpletely forced and fake sense of fear and all that they are trying to create by forcing you to, you know, not be able to do anything a reasonably coordinated monkey would do.

Quote
Item #5: For the love of God not typewriters again? Let me save my game when I want to ok? Again this is the new millenium - program in the ability to fucking save-anywhere. I don't want to repeat sections over and over again because the game is artificially made difficult by the stupid controls.
And they are few and far between. Kudos.

Quote
Item #6: I understand the game is scary and I was actually looking forward to that part. What I can't stand is developers who make the scary part of the game be the fighting the controls. Hordes of zombies or pissed off French villagers I can handle as long as I can fucking back away while I'm shooting at them. Give me a control scheme that doesn't get in the way. Give me one that doesn't artificially increase the difficulty level. Make the enemies and the atmosphere scary or difficult - not the fucking control scheme.
Thats what I am saying. Its not hard, its not complicated, its not that interesting, its not that fucking scary. But the controls suck so much ass and make the game so assbackwards difficult that it appears complicated and scary. Its not, the game just doesnt work well.

Bless you Warning, for putting this into words in the way I was trying to for months. I wanted to like this game very much, but there just is nothing in it to like for me, and now that I have your backup, I feel free to let out all my anger!
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2006, 11:03:11 PM »

Shitty controls seem to be a staple in the survival horror genre.  That being said, I feel the difficulty is just about right.  Having traditional FPS controls would make the game far too easy.  

My main problem with the game is the horrendous story and characters.  Blech.
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« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2006, 11:04:13 PM »

Go play Painkiller, warndog.  You clearly expected RE4 to be a PC FPS.

But seriously: the controls take getting used to.  Either you swallow your pride/angst and use what they give you or you shelve it and miss out on the best game on the Gamecube.

Having played through the (main storyline) game twice now, (once on GC, once on PS2), I'll tell you up front: this first big fight is one of the hardest in the game.  You have your un-upgraded pea shooter pistol, about 12-24 bullets, and a horde of zombos to deal with.
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2006, 11:08:28 PM »

Valid points.

If you got the 'Cube version, hold B to run.

I think the decision to go with their control decision was to force the player into these positions.  Into these, oh dear lord what's around the corner OH NO!

I do dislike not having a way to back up quickly.  When being chased by villagers, you're sort of forced to 180 turn, run, 180 turn, which is a little annoying.
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2006, 11:30:46 PM »

I dunno, I don't think what you're complaing about really hampers the game,

You can run, like said above, hold down the B button.

I thought the controls worked, mainly because it's not a static point of view anymore. You're behind Leon and it I think it's awesome.

I would've loved a strafe option, but eh, that's not Resident Evil. You're foced to make decisions on whether to stand and fight or to run. Try aiming at the heads...

Typewriters are fine, but I play a lot of RPGs so I am used to checkpoint saves. I like the fact that they got rid of ribbons.

My suggestion, don't base your opinion of the game on the village. The developers poorly chose to through you into the village and expect you to know how to sneak about and dive into windows and to push stuff in front of doors or to explore the whole town ignoring the villagers while collecting all the power ups and then heading into the one house that you get the shotgun and that makes you a lot happier.

I'm sorry you don't like it, but if you can give it a shot past the village, take a peek at a walkthrough to get through that, I hated the game at first it was bat shit retarded until I made it to the Lake and all of a sudden I was blowing villagers brains out with pin point accuracy and I was carefully walking through each area and I used my map a lot. I really enjoyed the almost out of control feel, the action was great and there are some awesome sequences and bosses. Buying and upgrading weapons was awesome and you can really feel like a badass.
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2006, 12:23:49 AM »

Item #1:  This is why instruction manuals were invented.  Hold the B button to run.  The in-game controller diagram illustrates this as well.

Item #'s 2-4:  It's not a shooter.  It's a survival horror game that happens to have shooting in it.

Item #5:  I can see the arguments for and against save-anywhere gameplay, but honestly, the save points are close enough together that you reach a new one roughly every 20 minutes.  Often sooner.  And not only that, but when you die, if you choose to continue, you continue very shortly before you died.  So unless you want to literally save after every single battle, the save system is good enough as-is.  And I don't like save-point systems, either.  slywink

Item #6:  Having played the previous Resident Evil games, this one's control system is a dream come true.  Maybe it's just not to your liking, but after I got the hang of the control scheme, I've been very happy with it.  It feels pretty natural now.  Not every game needs to have the move/strafe/look dual-control-stick control scheme, after all (and yes, I'm one of the people who doesn't care for the dual-stick shooter control scheme; I prefer playing shooters on the pc for that very reason).

I think the game is fantastic, and taking it on its own merits, is definitely one of the best games of last year to my preferences.  My personal game of the year from last year was Dragon Quest 8.  RE4 is definitely in my top 5-10 list.
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2006, 12:31:53 AM »

This game reminds me a lot of Metroid Prime.  It doesn't feel like the control you expect or want but somehow it works for the type of game it is.  

I was very, very fustrated by the controls...and I am still don't love them but I can now clear out rooms of French hicks with a few blasts and I am even able to get in a few head shots.  


What I like about the game is that

1. there are no more ribbons for the saved points.  So while it is annoying it is no different that most console games.   Ninja Gaiden - save points, Dragon Quest 9 - save points, Devil May Cry 3 - save points.  The list of games with save points is far longer than the ones that save anywhere.  

2. monsters don't seem to respawn.  Which means if I am really wanting to save I can run back to my last save and not worry about having to fight through more monsters.  I find that very refreshing.

3. Lots of bullets.   I have been able to kill every bad guy so far and I still have ammo.  In other RE games I always had rooms I need to just sprint through to save ammo.  I hate that.  I want dead zombies.  I don't want to run around the slow moving freaks.




The thing is more of your complaints are competely spot on correct.  They are ways the game is harder than it has to be.  However I think they were all intentional and add to the tension in the game.  

I am also a gaming wimp and I have been able to keep going without much fustration.  In fact I expect to restart at least twice when facing the first big boss and I managed to beat the fish on the first try.  I was shocked.


Keep going, I have found the control scheme more and more comfortable (if never really great)
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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2006, 12:52:38 AM »

Fucking brilliant game.  The "defend the house" mission is something I'll remember a long, long time I think.  Also, the cutscene that (inevitably) happens whenever you face off with the bag-head chainsaw dude.  Just excellent.  Using the special view mode to identify the kill points on that one thing.  I almost want to play through this again, and I NEVER play through games more than once.
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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2006, 01:06:30 AM »

Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
If you got the 'Cube version, hold B to run.

You know I swear I read the manual cover to cover and never saw that.  Yet I looked just now and there it is on the diagram.  That complaint is my own damn fault.

Quote from: "Temjin"
Shitty controls seem to be a staple in the survival horror genre. That being said, I feel the difficulty is just about right. Having traditional FPS controls would make the game far too easy.

Maybe they are a staple but why should they be?  I thought this game was supposed to "be different" from the previous RE games.  And I don't buy the argument that having better controls would make the game too easy.  There are plenty of FPS games that are quite difficult.  You make the enemies tougher or make more of them or give them laser beams coming out of their eyes or something.  Having poor/clumsy controls as a way to artificially ramp up the difficulty is just silly.

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Go play Painkiller, warndog. You clearly expected RE4 to be a PC FPS.

Painkiller - the game that did Doom better than Doom 3?  I loved it.  And while I didn't exactly expect RE4 to be a FPS (I'd played most of the other RE games so I wasn't expecting Half-Life 2) I also don't think RE4 knows what kind of game it wants to be.  I wish they'd either made it clearly 3rd-person or 1st-person.  I'm good at both of those and both control more naturally.  As it is, the combination of the two is clunky.

Quote from: "Farscry_Redux"
It's not a shooter. It's a survival horror game that happens to have shooting in it.

I don't know about that.  The other RE entries were clearly survival horror games and while RE4 seems to carry on that tradition it also seems to have a much stronger shooter component that the other RE games I've played.  Gamespot seems to agree with me in their review: "You cannot move and fire at the same time, nor can you strafe from side to side as you can in a typical shooter, though Resident Evil 4 plays very much like a shooter otherwise."

Which is fine because I like shooting the French as much as every other American but at least make it fair.

Quote from: "farley2k"
The thing is more of your complaints are competely spot on correct. They are ways the game is harder than it has to be. However I think they were all intentional and add to the tension in the game.

I know they add to the tension but I'd rather have the tension increased by the atmosphere, the monsters, the plot.

System Shock 2 is a great example.  I can't think of a more tense, scary experience than playing through SS2.  Yet the controls were never a problem for me.  If they'd purposefully left out strafing or moving while shooting I'd have been righteously pissed because that would be an artificial way of increasing the challenge.

Design a game that's good enough and scary enough in its own right.  You don't have to hamstring the player with clunky controls.
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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2006, 01:39:34 AM »

Quote from: "warning"
Which is fine because I like shooting the French as much as every other American but at least make it fair.


You know, I've seen comments from you to this effect often enough to pretty much let me know that there's no point even conversing with you.  I fail to see how this kind of comment is acceptable in any kind of civil conversation.  Replace "French" in your quote with an ethnic group and I bet the mods would be all over this.

So much for a "console gaming" discussion.  I'll leave it at that.  Done with this thread.
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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2006, 02:32:35 AM »

weirdly enuf, i just now logged on after finishing (for the first time) - re4!

yeah, it's grueling, much moreso than all the other 'always somewhat grueling' res (which's probably why it'd been sitting on my shelf unfinished for almost a year), & that's not helped by the 2 lifeless leads (easily the worst matchup of the series) or the 2 obnoxious main villains (now, the big guy with the beard - he rocked! as did the 2 'supporting' characters). i had 150 saves to prove how grueling it was (lots of running back to typewriters for me)... &, yeah, the controls could've been different, tho, considering how many people love the game, they must be pretty satisfactory as is, maybe especially for people like me (& farscry) who don't play console shooters...

is it a game of the year game? certainly not for characters or story - but visually & (especially) sonically, cutscene & action sequences -wise, re4 is a tremendous accomplishment, maybe not as totally satisfying as mgs3 or dmc3, but so chockful of genuine 'whoa! moments as to make the trip well worth taking...

but, that said, i still like re2 (you know, back when leon was actually kinda cool?) better...


sorry if the game's not to your liking. for me, hey, i guess it's just a resident evil thing smile ...


(& now,... back to deadly silence...)
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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2006, 02:33:33 AM »

Quote from: "Farscry_Redux"
Quote from: "warning"
Which is fine because I like shooting the French as much as every other American but at least make it fair.


You know, I've seen comments from you to this effect often enough to pretty much let me know that there's no point even conversing with you.  I fail to see how this kind of comment is acceptable in any kind of civil conversation.  Replace "French" in your quote with an ethnic group and I bet the mods would be all over this.

So much for a "console gaming" discussion.  I'll leave it at that.  Done with this thread.

So after I said this
Quote
I have to walk slowly? Please! At least let me skip a little. After all I am in France.

and this
Quote
... meanwhile the cheese-eating surrender monkey has noticed me and is sticking a pitchfork in my neck.

and even farley2k said this
Quote
I can now clear out rooms of French hicks with a few blasts...

it wasn't clear there was a fair bit of humor involved?  I didn't think a  biggrin was quite necessary by that point.
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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2006, 03:12:29 AM »

Last I checked it was a Spanish village... maybe I am crazy but the villagers were speaking spanish...So I think the whole freaking arguement about the French is out the Door...Go back and look at the original sign for the puebla at the beginning of the game, en espanol
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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2006, 03:35:46 AM »

Yeah, complaining about the saves in RE4 is a non-issue.  Yes, Save Anywhere is always better but since the vast majority of console games don't allow and RE4 is even friendlier than most in its save games, it seems a bit unfair to single that out.
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2006, 03:49:04 AM »

Well, chalk it up to stress and me being oversensitive then, Warning.  :oops:   Sorry about that.  I guess I was taking that out of context.
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« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2006, 04:03:44 AM »

Quote from: "Farscry_Redux"
conversation.  Replace "French" in your quote with an ethnic group and I bet the mods would be all over this.


I think the Mods were already all over that post slywink

I was thinking of picking up a Gamecube, and this was going to be one of the major reasons why, but, after experiencing Resident Evil Zero and hearing not much has really changed I may have to skip it.
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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2006, 04:16:17 AM »

Quote from: "CeeKay"

I was thinking of picking up a Gamecube, and this was going to be one of the major reasons why, but, after experiencing Resident Evil Zero and hearing not much has really changed I may have to skip it.


For what it's worth, I have Resident Evil Zero and RE4 and while I hate Zero (and every other RE game with the exception of Code Veronica), I think RE4 may be one of the best games I've played in the last 5 years.  I would highly recommend at least renting it....
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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2006, 04:19:39 AM »

Quote from: "Farscry_Redux"
Well, chalk it up to stress and me being oversensitive then, Warning.  :oops:   Sorry about that.  I guess I was taking that out of context.

No problem Farscry.  I've been there myself.

The game still sucks though.  Even if it wasn't the French after all.   Tongue

We'll totally agree on Dragon Quest VIII!
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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2006, 06:38:11 AM »

Your not alone warning.

Sorry but I laugh at the apologists that say the controls are supposed to be that way. Forcing the player to use clunky un-intuative controls to force a certain gameplay is just lame. Its like some half-assed inbetween the previous RE schemes and standard controls. It just sucks, and there is no reason for it.
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« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2006, 06:56:15 AM »

Well, everyone has their own likes and dislikes.

There's not much point arguing it, as your criticisms are all of conscious design decisions that Capcom made.

There's not really an arguement. You like it or you don't.

Except for the run thing, but that's been taken care of.

All that being said, I think it's merely a good game, and not the "god's gift to gaming" that people have been calling it since it's release.

I'll be owning the PC version when it comes out.
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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2006, 12:58:06 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
Item #1: Unless I missed it somewhere my guy can't run.  Can't run?  

[oops taken care of already]

Quote
Item #2: Why the hell can't I strafe?

Because this is NOT an FPS. Not being able to strafe is part of the game. Embrace it instead of fighting it.

Quote
Item #3: Why am I still feeling like I'm controlling a boat when my character moves?

The speed at which you turn while aiming with a gun is a function of the gun type.  Some guns aim faster.  While walking.. I never noticed a problem.

Quote
Item #4: So I can walk or I can shoot but I can't do both?

This is part of the game-play. Instead of fighting it, accept it. This is NOT a FPS game. Besides, who wants another FPS game, we got plenty of those in the 90s.

Quote
Item #5: For the love of God not typewriters again?

Yeah. This and every console game.

Quote
Item #6: I understand the game is scary and I was actually looking forward to that part.  What I can't stand is developers who make the scary part of the game be the fighting the controls.

The control scheme of RE4 does NOT get in your way.  You are getting in the way of the control scheme because you want it to be something that it is not designed to be.  This is NOT a run and gun FPS. You need to adapt your tactics to THIS game, not try to adapt the game to your tactics.

Quote
Someone's been drinking the Kool-Aid.

That would be you. You seem to be drinking the "All Games are 90s Shooters" Kool-Aid.

RE4 is the way it is by design. By good design, not by bad design. They chose not to make it a run and gun shooter on PURPOSE. Your problem is that you are trying to play the game as if it was a 90s run and gun shooter.  You need to come into the game with an open mind, and not expect it to be Halo or Serious Sam.

Anyway.. I hate to see you miss a game like this because you are approaching it "wrong".  Try to get to the first boss, the lake monster. If that doesn't convince you to keep playing, THEN give up.
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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2006, 01:49:53 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
Maybe they are a staple but why should they be?  I thought this game was supposed to "be different" from the previous RE games.  And I don't buy the argument that having better controls would make the game too easy.  There are plenty of FPS games that are quite difficult.  You make the enemies tougher or make more of them or give them laser beams coming out of their eyes or something.  Having poor/clumsy controls as a way to artificially ramp up the difficulty is just silly.


It seems then that your problem is with all survival horror games not RE4.  RE4 is actually quite good for the genre.  Comparing it to FPS is a disservice to the game because that isn't what it is.

Have you ever played Fatal Frame?  That game has clunky controls!  Trying to take a photo of a ghost while pisssing yourself is really hard!


Quote

I know they add to the tension but I'd rather have the tension increased by the atmosphere, the monsters, the plot.

System Shock 2 is a great example.  I can't think of a more tense, scary experience than playing through SS2.  Yet the controls were never a problem for me.  If they'd purposefully left out strafing or moving while shooting I'd have been righteously pissed because that would be an artificial way of increasing the challenge.

Design a game that's good enough and scary enough in its own right.  You don't have to hamstring the player with clunky controls.



Yes, SS2 is a great example!  Remember the stupid, shitty weapons degrading?  Remember all the bitching about that artificial way of increasing the tension?  No?  Probably because I believe they removed it in on of the patches and I know there was a fan based mod that removed it.

So, even your great example used artificial ways of increasing the tension.  Perhaps overtime the memory has faded of that cheesy bit in the game.  I think RE4 is that way too, the good parts will overwhelm the bad and they will become something you don't think about.
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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2006, 01:53:01 PM »

Count me in with the 'controls ruined it' crowd.  I really, really wanted to like it, but I felt like I was fighting the controls more than I was fighting the baddies.  Not exactly my idea of fun.
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« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2006, 02:02:39 PM »

I can't believe so many people are complaining about the controls here. I personally feel that making the game dual-analog would've made the game far more difficult to control than it was. Why?

The Gamecube's second analog (the C-Stick) sucks for anything but gross (walking) movement. And the way my brain is wired, left analog is movement, right is aiming. And that control scheme would've ruined the whole game on the Cube. The PS2 is another matter entirely.

The whole point of the game is the otherwise slow mobs getting the jump on you due to your slow movement. If you could whip yourself around like Master Chief, that whole aspect of the game would've been null and void.

And in addition, how accurate are you with a pistol in real life while circle strafing? Or just while walking backwards? Most people are looking at where they're placing their feet when walking anywhere but forwards, instead of where they'd be aiming a gun.
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« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2006, 03:41:06 PM »

Quote from: "Bob"
The control scheme of RE4 does NOT get in your way. You are getting in the way of the control scheme because you want it to be something that it is not designed to be. This is NOT a run and gun FPS. You need to adapt your tactics to THIS game, not try to adapt the game to your tactics.

Sure it gets in the way.  In real life if I had a pistol and I were faced with 3 shambling bad guys who were trying to stick me with a pitchfork I'd want to run like a grade-school girl.  If I couldn't do that, then I'd fire my gun at them.  If they didn't immediately go down but instead got closer, I'd want to back away from them while I continued firing.  Wouldn't you?  When I play RE4 I immediately found myself wanting to do that and couldn't.  That took me out of the game because it was forced and artificial.  It's like big neon letters appeared that said "You're playing a video game!"

Quote from: "farley2k"
It seems then that your problem is with all survival horror games not RE4.  RE4 is actually quite good for the genre.  Comparing it to FPS is a disservice to the game because that isn't what it is.

Have you ever played Fatal Frame?  That game has clunky controls!  Trying to take a photo of a ghost while pisssing yourself is really hard!

Never played Fatal Frame.  Clunky controls?  Nah - count me out.

I did play the first Silent Hill game on the PSX.  It's been so long ago but I think it basically let you play from a behind the back perspective.  I remember that game scaring the hell out of me but I don't remember fighting the controls.  But my memory sucks with that game.

Quote from: "farley2k"
Yes, SS2 is a great example!  Remember the stupid, shitty weapons degrading?  Remember all the bitching about that artificial way of increasing the tension?  No?  Probably because I believe they removed it in on of the patches and I know there was a fan based mod that removed it.

So, even your great example used artificial ways of increasing the tension.  Perhaps overtime the memory has faded of that cheesy bit in the game.  I think RE4 is that way too, the good parts will overwhelm the bad and they will become something you don't think about.

I only played SS2 patched.  I know you could change an option and your weapons wouldn't degrade as quickly.  It's nice to have options.  smile

(not directed specifically at farley) Okay basically here's my beef with RE4.  Remember the old RE games?  Remember how they controlled.  Now RE4 is different.  They changed the control scheme right?  Why did they do that?

Seriously why did they do that?  Presumably to make the game more fun.  Presumably to fend off complaints from players that they felt like they were steering a boat instead of moving a character.  Okay - sounds good to me.  Except that they changed the previously clunky control scheme to a control scheme that is still clunky, only less so.  Why not go all the way and give us a control scheme that allows for more options, more strategizing, more freedom of movement and find other ways to make the game scary?  Why the half-assed job of "improving" the controls?

Maybe I'm not jaded enough but I believe that developers can make a game more tense without giving you inflexible controls.

Why not go even further?  Wouldn't it be more tense if my character had his shoelaces tied together and one arm pinned behind his back?  Except we would think the developer was on drugs if they tried to foist that sort of artificial crap on us.  Yet we accept being unable to walk and shoot a gun at the same time?  Not getting it.
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« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2006, 04:35:57 PM »

Quote from: "warning"

(not directed specifically at farley) Okay basically here's my beef with RE4.  Remember the old RE games?  Remember how they controlled.  Now RE4 is different.  They changed the control scheme right?  Why did they do that?

Seriously why did they do that?  Presumably to make the game more fun.  Presumably to fend off complaints from players that they felt like they were steering a boat instead of moving a character.  Okay - sounds good to me.  Except that they changed the previously clunky control scheme to a control scheme that is still clunky, only less so.  Why not go all the way and give us a control scheme that allows for more options, more strategizing, more freedom of movement and find other ways to make the game scary?  Why the half-assed job of "improving" the controls?

Maybe I'm not jaded enough but I believe that developers can make a game more tense without giving you inflexible controls.

Why not go even further?  Wouldn't it be more tense if my character had his shoelaces tied together and one arm pinned behind his back?  Except we would think the developer was on drugs if they tried to foist that sort of artificial crap on us.  Yet we accept being unable to walk and shoot a gun at the same time?  Not getting it.



I agree with you, really I do but I have found after 4-5 hours with the game that I don't care.  I have figured out how to work with the control scheme and am really enjoying the game.
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« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2006, 04:39:14 PM »

Their are two changes that I think seal the deal for me.

1. no ribbons.  Yeah it is still a save point system but I can save as much as I want.  The other RE games really, really pissed me off with limited saves.

2. restarting at the nearest load when you die.  If you die you don't have to redo tons of stuff you are usually right near where you bought it and you know what is coming.  Thus I have never had to go through a section more than 2 times.
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« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2006, 04:44:17 PM »

Quote from: "farley2k"
Quote from: "warning"

(not directed specifically at farley) Okay basically here's my beef with RE4.  Remember the old RE games?  Remember how they controlled.  Now RE4 is different.  They changed the control scheme right?  Why did they do that?

Seriously why did they do that?  Presumably to make the game more fun.  Presumably to fend off complaints from players that they felt like they were steering a boat instead of moving a character.  Okay - sounds good to me.  Except that they changed the previously clunky control scheme to a control scheme that is still clunky, only less so.  Why not go all the way and give us a control scheme that allows for more options, more strategizing, more freedom of movement and find other ways to make the game scary?  Why the half-assed job of "improving" the controls?

Maybe I'm not jaded enough but I believe that developers can make a game more tense without giving you inflexible controls.

Why not go even further?  Wouldn't it be more tense if my character had his shoelaces tied together and one arm pinned behind his back?  Except we would think the developer was on drugs if they tried to foist that sort of artificial crap on us.  Yet we accept being unable to walk and shoot a gun at the same time?  Not getting it.



I agree with you, really I do but I have found after 4-5 hours with the game that I don't care.  I have figured out how to work with the control scheme and am really enjoying the game.


I think I agree with this completely, but unlike Farley, I never got used to the controls and, I hate to say it, but the story/tension/atmosphere/scary wannabe stuff just never got to me. I found it boring and hokey, not scary.
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« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2006, 05:02:46 PM »

I felt the control scheme was very similar to the old games. It was the camera/perspective that changed drastically for RE4. Changed for the better IMO. I was never a fan of the static camera. That's why the control for the old games seemed clunky because the controls constantly changed with the camera angle.
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« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2006, 05:31:40 PM »

To each his/her own I guess.

For me, the game was incredible.  Unlike warning, I don't get all twisted about the "realism" thing (i.e., running backwards while shooting etc.).  It just doesn't bother me in the least.  I enjoy it for what it is:  a videogame that provided me 40hrs of pure entertainment.  I guess it's why I like most games.  I usually don't nit pick.  As long as I'm immersed in the story, care about the characters, have some kind of personal connection and think about the game while I'm at work, it's going to be one darn fine ride baby!

And now that I think about it.  Changing the controls to include strafing and firing while running would have totally evaporated all the tenseness of the game.  The "Defend the House" segment would have lost everything cool about if the controls were different.

Here's hoping the developers don't listen to apparently the vocal minority and keep the same controls for RE5.

 biggrin
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« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2006, 05:36:13 PM »

Quote from: "Starshifter"

Here's hoping the developers don't listen to apparently the vocal minority and keep the same controls for RE5.

 biggrin



Judging from the number of awards it got last year, the very strong sales, the ports to the PS2 and the PC I would guess that Capcom will stick with the formula.
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« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2006, 05:45:18 PM »

Quote from: "farley2k"
Quote from: "Starshifter"

Here's hoping the developers don't listen to apparently the vocal minority and keep the same controls for RE5.

 biggrin



Judging from the number of awards it got last year, the very strong sales, the ports to the PS2 and the PC I would guess that Capcom will stick with the formula.

Yeah I realize I'm in a minority on this one.  Sucks to be the only one right.   :wink:

I just hope they take my advice and really ramp up the tension for Resident Evil 5: Your character's shoes are tied together and one arm is duct taped to your back.  Your only weapons are a Bic lighter and a toothbrush.

Think of the tension!   Tongue
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« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2006, 06:16:18 PM »

Quote from: "warning"

Yeah I realize I'm in a minority on this one.  Sucks to be the only one right.   :wink:


I say that so often at work it should be my email sig.


Quote

I just hope they take my advice and really ramp up the tension for Resident Evil 5: Your character's shoes are tied together and one arm is duct taped to your back.  Your only weapons are a Bic lighter and a toothbrush.

Think of the tension!   Tongue


Is it one of those child safty Bics?  I can never light those things...that would be tension!
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« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2006, 06:21:45 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
Sucks to be the only one right.   :wink:

BOOOOO!!!! biggrin

Now go back to playing that uninteresting, drag-on forever, annoying character, billion random encounter, graphically blah, zero tension game they call DQVIII. :wink:
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« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2006, 07:10:15 PM »

Quote from: "Starshifter"
Quote from: "warning"
Sucks to be the only one right.   :wink:

BOOOOO!!!! biggrin

Now go back to playing that uninteresting, drag-on forever, annoying character, billion random encounter, graphically blah, zero tension game they call DQVIII. :wink:



Whoa!  DQ8 is a beautiful, incredible, wonderful, nearly perfect game.  Don't be bashing DQ8 just to make yourself feel better that Leon can't walk and chew gum (or shoot)
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« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2006, 07:19:15 PM »

I think I can sum this up best:

u h8 re4 = your nub
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« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2006, 07:22:46 PM »

Put me in the camp that hated RE4.  Fighting zombies is cool.  Fighting the controls is not.  I have played almost every RE through (didn't play Zero)and liked the stories but in the end would have rather watched them be played because I hated the controls to no end.
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« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2006, 07:41:29 PM »

Quote from: "farley2k"
Whoa!  DQ8 is a beautiful, incredible, wonderful, nearly perfect game.  Don't be bashing DQ8 just to make yourself feel better that Leon can't walk and chew gum (or shoot)

Nah.  Not bashing it at all.  Hence the wink.  But, I have to tell you that I hated it.  I tried several times to get into it but I couldn't for the reasons I stated a few posts ago why I like certain games.  I traded it for the The Movies and it was a great trade.  I could go on and on about all the things I didn't like in DQVIII but why annoy the people who truly enjoyed it?  That wouldn't accomplish anything anyway.  :wink:
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« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2006, 07:45:57 PM »

Quote from: "Starshifter"
I could go on and on about all the things I didn't like in DQVIII but why annoy the people who truly enjoyed it?  That wouldn't accomplish anything anyway.  :wink:
It'd result in meeting me at your doorstep right before I break your kneecaps.  Don't you want to meet me?!
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