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Author Topic: PS3 pricing  (Read 13858 times)
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #120 on: May 11, 2006, 11:15:57 PM »

Quote from: "ATB"
And like what i've said before, GT regulars are a super fickle lot.  95% of immediate reaction is BS.  Let's check back in 6 months.


I think this time last week I was comparing the Wii to New Coke and predicting its doom.  smile
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Victoria Raverna
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« Reply #121 on: May 12, 2006, 02:19:26 AM »

Quote from: "Scott"
What does the $500 PS3 not have that the XBox Premium does?  It seems like the PS3 is only $100 more, that's not even two games more anymore.  Sorry if I missed this earlier.

Also, Sony has a hard drive standard.  That was one of the big rallying XBox cries before.  Sony's system is more expensive, but has a lot more this time around.


Nothing. If you really want to do a fair comparison the 'basic' version of PS3 is not too expensive compare to premium XBOX 360 which is what it should be compared to.

Premium XBOX360 doesn't have HD-DVD or Blu-ray. Premium XBOX360 doesn't have HDMI just like the basic PS3. So 'basic' PS3 cost about the same as XBOX360 plus the HD-DVD add-on(if it is only $99).
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« Reply #122 on: May 12, 2006, 03:06:52 AM »

Quote from: "Victoria Raverna"


Premium XBOX360 doesn't have HD-DVD or Blu-ray. Premium XBOX360 doesn't have HDMI just like the basic PS3. So 'basic' PS3 cost about the same as XBOX360 plus the HD-DVD add-on(if it is only $99).


Good points.

....Waits for someone to argue other wise......
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #123 on: May 12, 2006, 03:24:32 AM »

Quote from: "Darren8r"
....Waits for someone to argue other wise......


The key point is that even if you don't care about high-def movie content then you're being forced to pay for it to some extent with PS3.  

I will point out, though, that if you don't care about high def movie content on either console then the real difference is $100 (vice $200)  between consoles (assuming MS doesn't drop the price) since the "core" PS3 gets you everything that that the $400 360 gets you.
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« Reply #124 on: May 12, 2006, 03:30:56 AM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"


I will point out, though, that if you don't care about high def movie content on either console then the real difference is $100 (vice $200)  between consoles (assuming MS doesn't drop the price) since the "core" PS3 gets you everything that that the $400 360 gets you.


Good point. See I dont have a HD TV but I'm planning on getting one sometime in my life. Its a tough pick to choose what I want.  :cry:
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« Reply #125 on: May 12, 2006, 02:52:28 PM »

Quote from: "Victoria Raverna"
Quote from: "Scott"
What does the $500 PS3 not have that the XBox Premium does?  It seems like the PS3 is only $100 more, that's not even two games more anymore.  Sorry if I missed this earlier.

Also, Sony has a hard drive standard.  That was one of the big rallying XBox cries before.  Sony's system is more expensive, but has a lot more this time around.


Nothing. If you really want to do a fair comparison the 'basic' version of PS3 is not too expensive compare to premium XBOX 360 which is what it should be compared to.

Premium XBOX360 doesn't have HD-DVD or Blu-ray. Premium XBOX360 doesn't have HDMI just like the basic PS3. So 'basic' PS3 cost about the same as XBOX360 plus the HD-DVD add-on(if it is only $99).


Premium 360 has memory slots, basic PS3 doesn't. Premium 360 is totally expandable for future add on players and/or hard drives, the basic PS3 is reportedly non-expandable, which means you will be stuck with a blu-ray player that might not play all the movies if other companies like Time Warner decide that ICT is the way to go(no upgrade on base model to HDMI). Not too mention that having no HDMI means that the buyer won't be able enjoy DD Plus, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS-HD while watching a downscaled blu-ray movie.

If you want blu-ray, the $500 option shouldn't even be considered. I don't know why many get so enamored with having the included blu-ray player? Is it for the sake of having it? If blu-ray goes mainstream, who would want to be stuck with an entry-level 2x model, when you can get a stand-alone player that will be faster and of higher quality?  

To each his own. For me it comes down to gaming, and i can't justify spending that high of a price for a console. In Canada, most consumers will be looking at spending close to $1000 for just an extra controller and game to go with the premium model. :lol:
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« Reply #126 on: May 12, 2006, 09:23:46 PM »

Quote from: "tripwire"
If you want blu-ray, the $500 option shouldn't even be considered. I don't know why many get so enamored with having the included blu-ray player? Is it for the sake of having it? If blu-ray goes mainstream, who would want to be stuck with an entry-level 2x model, when you can get a stand-alone player that will be faster and of higher quality?


This is the logic which, I feel, led Sony to this decision.  In Japan, the answer is likely going to be a "yes".  Most people in Japan who own a PS2 use it as their only DVD player.

Sony's strategy is to push Blu-Ray into acceptance via the PS3.  But that means they are depending on the success of the PS3, which... well, they are the last to market, and the most expensive.  That's going to be a tough hill to climb.

Also, it seems to be a strategy based upon the preferences of the Japanese market, without taking the US market into account.  I'm curious what the internal chatter was over this.
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« Reply #127 on: May 13, 2006, 02:21:28 AM »

Quote from: "tripwire"
Premium 360 has memory slots, basic PS3 doesn't. Premium 360 is totally expandable for future add on players and/or hard drives, the basic PS3 is reportedly non-expandable, which means you will be stuck with a blu-ray player that might not play all the movies if other companies like Time Warner decide that ICT is the way to go(no upgrade on base model to HDMI). Not too mention that having no HDMI means that the buyer won't be able enjoy DD Plus, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS-HD while watching a downscaled blu-ray movie.

If you want blu-ray, the $500 option shouldn't even be considered. I don't know why many get so enamored with having the included blu-ray player? Is it for the sake of having it? If blu-ray goes mainstream, who would want to be stuck with an entry-level 2x model, when you can get a stand-alone player that will be faster and of higher quality?  


I have yet to hear of a reasonable technical explanation on how MS can implement HDMI (and therefore HDCP) with their HD-DVD add-on.  I think most are expecting that it will be component only and just hope that studios never enable the ICT flag.

Also, standalone Bluray Drives won't necessarilly be faster- The spec for movie playback is 1x speed so having more than that in a dedicated player doesn't buy you anything.  Higher speeds will only be notable for applications other than movie playback.  Which isn't to say that standalone players probably won't be better for other reasons but speed ain't one of them.
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Victoria Raverna
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« Reply #128 on: May 13, 2006, 02:41:00 AM »

Quote from: "tripwire"

Premium 360 has memory slots, basic PS3 doesn't. Premium 360 is totally expandable for future add on players and/or hard drives, the basic PS3 is reportedly non-expandable, which means you will be stuck with a blu-ray player that might not play all the movies if other companies like Time Warner decide that ICT is the way to go(no upgrade on base model to HDMI). Not too mention that having no HDMI means that the buyer won't be able enjoy DD Plus, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS-HD while watching a downscaled blu-ray movie.


With the existence of HDD, I never met anyone that actually bought XBOX's memory card. I don't think the memory slots is going to be a big advantage for XBOX. And since USB memory card reader is cheap and easy to make, I'm sure Sony will be able to over a memory card reader add-on or maybe you can use cheaper third party product($10-$15 at most). As for HDMI, if it is possible for Microsoft to add HDMI to XBOX 360, then it'll be a lot easier for Sony to add HDMI to basic PS3. Just because they said there is no option to upgrade to premium PS3 feature planned doesn't mean there is not going to be one if there is a demand for it.
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« Reply #129 on: May 13, 2006, 11:58:25 AM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "tripwire"
Premium 360 has memory slots, basic PS3 doesn't. Premium 360 is totally expandable for future add on players and/or hard drives, the basic PS3 is reportedly non-expandable, which means you will be stuck with a blu-ray player that might not play all the movies if other companies like Time Warner decide that ICT is the way to go(no upgrade on base model to HDMI). Not too mention that having no HDMI means that the buyer won't be able enjoy DD Plus, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS-HD while watching a downscaled blu-ray movie.

If you want blu-ray, the $500 option shouldn't even be considered. I don't know why many get so enamored with having the included blu-ray player? Is it for the sake of having it? If blu-ray goes mainstream, who would want to be stuck with an entry-level 2x model, when you can get a stand-alone player that will be faster and of higher quality?  


I have yet to hear of a reasonable technical explanation on how MS can implement HDMI (and therefore HDCP) with their HD-DVD add-on.  I think most are expecting that it will be component only and just hope that studios never enable the ICT flag.

Also, standalone Bluray Drives won't necessarilly be faster- The spec for movie playback is 1x speed so having more than that in a dedicated player doesn't buy you anything.  Higher speeds will only be notable for applications other than movie playback.  Which isn't to say that standalone players probably won't be better for other reasons but speed ain't one of them.


They already have 4x available, and the BDA(blu-ray disc association) have plans for 8x, because a faster data transfer rate is easily attainable. People won't be stuck with 1x and 2x speeds.

Future stand-alone players will be better, and faster.

As for MS, it's already been rumored that their add-on player will NOT have HDMI included.
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« Reply #130 on: May 13, 2006, 12:24:49 PM »

Quote from: "Victoria Raverna"
Quote from: "tripwire"

Premium 360 has memory slots, basic PS3 doesn't. Premium 360 is totally expandable for future add on players and/or hard drives, the basic PS3 is reportedly non-expandable, which means you will be stuck with a blu-ray player that might not play all the movies if other companies like Time Warner decide that ICT is the way to go(no upgrade on base model to HDMI). Not too mention that having no HDMI means that the buyer won't be able enjoy DD Plus, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS-HD while watching a downscaled blu-ray movie.


With the existence of HDD, I never met anyone that actually bought XBOX's memory card. I don't think the memory slots is going to be a big advantage for XBOX. And since USB memory card reader is cheap and easy to make, I'm sure Sony will be able to over a memory card reader add-on or maybe you can use cheaper third party product($10-$15 at most). As for HDMI, if it is possible for Microsoft to add HDMI to XBOX 360, then it'll be a lot easier for Sony to add HDMI to basic PS3. Just because they said there is no option to upgrade to premium PS3 feature planned doesn't mean there is not going to be one if there is a demand for it.


You need a hardware upgrade before you can just hook up an HDMI cable and enjoy digital output.
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« Reply #131 on: May 13, 2006, 02:18:53 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
I have yet to hear of a reasonable technical explanation on how MS can implement HDMI (and therefore HDCP) with their HD-DVD add-on.  I think most are expecting that it will be component only and just hope that studios never enable the ICT flag.

Here's a stupid thought - there are DVD players (some of them in consoles) that totally ignore the 'you can't skip over these trailers stuffed at the beginning of movies' flag, thus allowing you to go straight to the main DVD menus.

Could/would Microsoft make their HD-DVD addon ignore the ICT flag, thus allowing all movies to show up in hi-def no matter the setting?

Yeah, it would be like ritual suicide on the whole copy-protection crap, but it would solve the issue, no?
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« Reply #132 on: May 13, 2006, 06:32:52 PM »

It's hard to argue the relative merits of each consoles package when we don't yet know what Sony is going to include.  Will the $500 package have wireless or wired controllers?  What kind of hook-up cables will it include?  Etc.

(EDIT: Word today is that the $500 version is wired controllers - only. As in you can't upgrade.  Same with the 20 GB HD.  You can't upgrade.)

That aside, has anyone seen what the reaction to the price announcement has been in Japan?  While it appears the US doesn't like it much, I haven't seen anything out of Japan.  While I don't see any real reason to think the 360 will get beyond 10% of the Japanese market in the best possible scenario, the real issue is how Sony and Nintendo split the rest of the market.
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« Reply #133 on: May 14, 2006, 01:51:26 AM »

Quote from: "tripwire"
Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "tripwire"
Premium 360 has memory slots, basic PS3 doesn't. Premium 360 is totally expandable for future add on players and/or hard drives, the basic PS3 is reportedly non-expandable, which means you will be stuck with a blu-ray player that might not play all the movies if other companies like Time Warner decide that ICT is the way to go(no upgrade on base model to HDMI). Not too mention that having no HDMI means that the buyer won't be able enjoy DD Plus, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS-HD while watching a downscaled blu-ray movie.

If you want blu-ray, the $500 option shouldn't even be considered. I don't know why many get so enamored with having the included blu-ray player? Is it for the sake of having it? If blu-ray goes mainstream, who would want to be stuck with an entry-level 2x model, when you can get a stand-alone player that will be faster and of higher quality?  


I have yet to hear of a reasonable technical explanation on how MS can implement HDMI (and therefore HDCP) with their HD-DVD add-on.  I think most are expecting that it will be component only and just hope that studios never enable the ICT flag.

Also, standalone Bluray Drives won't necessarilly be faster- The spec for movie playback is 1x speed so having more than that in a dedicated player doesn't buy you anything.  Higher speeds will only be notable for applications other than movie playback.  Which isn't to say that standalone players probably won't be better for other reasons but speed ain't one of them.


They already have 4x available, and the BDA(blu-ray disc association) have plans for 8x, because a faster data transfer rate is easily attainable. People won't be stuck with 1x and 2x speeds.

Future stand-alone players will be better, and faster.

As for MS, it's already been rumored that their add-on player will NOT have HDMI included.


You're wrong about future stand-alone players will be faster part. Faster drive is useless for regular movie viewing since you rarely want to play the movie faster than the default speed. Except maybe when you skip through boring parts of for example porn to find the jackpot, then you need the ability to play faster but still even using 1x drive you can play faster if the player skip a few frame at a time instead of reading each byte of data and play them faster.

Please try to find standalone DVD players in the market that is faster than the original DVD player spec.
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« Reply #134 on: May 14, 2006, 01:54:25 AM »

Quote from: "Destructor"
Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
I have yet to hear of a reasonable technical explanation on how MS can implement HDMI (and therefore HDCP) with their HD-DVD add-on.  I think most are expecting that it will be component only and just hope that studios never enable the ICT flag.

Here's a stupid thought - there are DVD players (some of them in consoles) that totally ignore the 'you can't skip over these trailers stuffed at the beginning of movies' flag, thus allowing you to go straight to the main DVD menus.

Could/would Microsoft make their HD-DVD addon ignore the ICT flag, thus allowing all movies to show up in hi-def no matter the setting?

Yeah, it would be like ritual suicide on the whole copy-protection crap, but it would solve the issue, no?


I think there is a license issue that prevent that. Just like DVD manufacture can't legally make multi-region DVD players. Of course that doesn't stop some asian and china manufacturer to produce those illegal DVD players but big corporate like Sony, Microsoft, etc. can't do that.
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« Reply #135 on: May 14, 2006, 01:59:29 AM »

Quote from: "tripwire"
Quote from: "Victoria Raverna"
Quote from: "tripwire"

Premium 360 has memory slots, basic PS3 doesn't. Premium 360 is totally expandable for future add on players and/or hard drives, the basic PS3 is reportedly non-expandable, which means you will be stuck with a blu-ray player that might not play all the movies if other companies like Time Warner decide that ICT is the way to go(no upgrade on base model to HDMI). Not too mention that having no HDMI means that the buyer won't be able enjoy DD Plus, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS-HD while watching a downscaled blu-ray movie.


With the existence of HDD, I never met anyone that actually bought XBOX's memory card. I don't think the memory slots is going to be a big advantage for XBOX. And since USB memory card reader is cheap and easy to make, I'm sure Sony will be able to over a memory card reader add-on or maybe you can use cheaper third party product($10-$15 at most). As for HDMI, if it is possible for Microsoft to add HDMI to XBOX 360, then it'll be a lot easier for Sony to add HDMI to basic PS3. Just because they said there is no option to upgrade to premium PS3 feature planned doesn't mean there is not going to be one if there is a demand for it.


You need a hardware upgrade before you can just hook up an HDMI cable and enjoy digital output.


How do you know the hardware circuit part hasn't been included in the basic PS3. If price of that circuitry isn't too expensive there is no good reason for Sony to take them out of basic PS3. I think that Sony has the HDMI circuitry in both basic and premium PS3, but choose not to provide the output for HDMI on basic PS3 to sell the premium PS3. Later on it is possible for Sony to release HDMI addon and charge like $99 for it as extra profit.
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« Reply #136 on: May 14, 2006, 02:34:25 AM »

And in the continuation of how the PS3 will be $600 (or also known as the $500 console is utterly gimped), it's been reported today that you'll be getting wired controllers with the 'cheaper' console, with no option of going wireless.
Quote
But perhaps more disappointing is that wireless bluetooth controllers won't be supported; instead, gamers will have to make do with retro-style wired-up versions of the increasingly controversial PS3 pad.

So...why is the $500 console still available? And who's exactly gonna buy it?

EDIT: Digging around further, I'm now seeing conflicting reports of if it'll support wireless controllers or not. The spec sheet says it'll have Bluetooth, but the link above states otherwise.
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« Reply #137 on: May 14, 2006, 02:52:31 AM »

Quote from: "Destructor"
And in the continuation of how the PS3 will be $600 (or also known as the $500 console is utterly gimped), it's been reported today that you'll be getting.


Ugh, if true that would almost force me into the $600 version.  HDMI is useless for my needs, 20 GB is probably fine for storage, but no wireless?  Don't think I can live with that.

Quote from: "Destructor"
Could/would Microsoft make their HD-DVD addon ignore the ICT flag, thus allowing all movies to show up in hi-def no matter the setting?


At a minimum that is almost certainly a violation of the DMCA.
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« Reply #138 on: May 14, 2006, 05:31:17 AM »

Quote from: "Peter Moore"
We had a price drop on Monday when Sony announced their price.

:lol:

link to the rest
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« Reply #139 on: May 14, 2006, 08:57:58 AM »

Not sure what they mean by no wireless at all. Are they making it so even if a 3rd party wants to offer a wireless controller they can't? I don't see how you could still not buy something similar like the wireless dualshocks you can now for the PS2 as they include the adpater for the wireless signal from the contoller.
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« Reply #140 on: May 14, 2006, 11:13:01 PM »

Quote from: "Victoria Raverna"
Quote from: "tripwire"
Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "tripwire"
Premium 360 has memory slots, basic PS3 doesn't. Premium 360 is totally expandable for future add on players and/or hard drives, the basic PS3 is reportedly non-expandable, which means you will be stuck with a blu-ray player that might not play all the movies if other companies like Time Warner decide that ICT is the way to go(no upgrade on base model to HDMI). Not too mention that having no HDMI means that the buyer won't be able enjoy DD Plus, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS-HD while watching a downscaled blu-ray movie.

If you want blu-ray, the $500 option shouldn't even be considered. I don't know why many get so enamored with having the included blu-ray player? Is it for the sake of having it? If blu-ray goes mainstream, who would want to be stuck with an entry-level 2x model, when you can get a stand-alone player that will be faster and of higher quality?  


I have yet to hear of a reasonable technical explanation on how MS can implement HDMI (and therefore HDCP) with their HD-DVD add-on.  I think most are expecting that it will be component only and just hope that studios never enable the ICT flag.

Also, standalone Bluray Drives won't necessarilly be faster- The spec for movie playback is 1x speed so having more than that in a dedicated player doesn't buy you anything.  Higher speeds will only be notable for applications other than movie playback.  Which isn't to say that standalone players probably won't be better for other reasons but speed ain't one of them.


They already have 4x available, and the BDA(blu-ray disc association) have plans for 8x, because a faster data transfer rate is easily attainable. People won't be stuck with 1x and 2x speeds.

Future stand-alone players will be better, and faster.

As for MS, it's already been rumored that their add-on player will NOT have HDMI included.


You're wrong about future stand-alone players will be faster part. Faster drive is useless for regular movie viewing since you rarely want to play the movie faster than the default speed. Except maybe when you skip through boring parts of for example porn to find the jackpot, then you need the ability to play faster but still even using 1x drive you can play faster if the player skip a few frame at a time instead of reading each byte of data and play them faster.

Please try to find standalone DVD players in the market that is faster than the original DVD player spec.


When used to access data, then having a 2x will affect your rate of transfer accordingly.
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« Reply #141 on: May 14, 2006, 11:23:36 PM »

All i wanted from Sony was a console that would give me the option to upgrade as i see fit.

Sony offered the opposite, and it's not worth the extra cost to me. Let me be the one to decide if i want to buy the blu-ray add-on, and any other add-on options.
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« Reply #142 on: May 15, 2006, 02:38:11 AM »

Quote from: "tripwire"

When used to access data, then having a 2x will affect your rate of transfer accordingly.


What data? I thought we're discussing the ability to play movie on PS3 compare to Blu-ray standalone player.
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« Reply #143 on: May 15, 2006, 02:40:17 AM »

Quote from: "tripwire"
All i wanted from Sony was a console that would give me the option to upgrade as i see fit.

Sony offered the opposite, and it's not worth the extra cost to me. Let me be the one to decide if i want to buy the blu-ray add-on, and any other add-on options.


If PS3 games use Blu-ray media, then Blu-ray is no longer an add-on but integral part of PS3 console.

As for not worth the extra cost to you, then don't buy it at launch wait until the price come down at least $100.
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« Reply #144 on: May 15, 2006, 06:55:08 AM »

Quote from: "Victoria Raverna"
Quote from: "tripwire"

When used to access data, then having a 2x will affect your rate of transfer accordingly.


What data? I thought we're discussing the ability to play movie on PS3 compare to Blu-ray standalone player.


You're correct in the speed of the movie being played. I'm stating that the speed of the blu-ray will matter for everything else it can obviously be used for.
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« Reply #145 on: May 15, 2006, 06:58:31 AM »

Quote from: "Victoria Raverna"
Quote from: "tripwire"
All i wanted from Sony was a console that would give me the option to upgrade as i see fit.

Sony offered the opposite, and it's not worth the extra cost to me. Let me be the one to decide if i want to buy the blu-ray add-on, and any other add-on options.


If PS3 games use Blu-ray media, then Blu-ray is no longer an add-on but integral part of PS3 console.

As for not worth the extra cost to you, then don't buy it at launch wait until the price come down at least $100.


Are there any games even being developed for use with blu-ray?
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« Reply #146 on: May 15, 2006, 07:49:45 AM »

Quote from: "tripwire"
Quote from: "Victoria Raverna"
Quote from: "tripwire"
All i wanted from Sony was a console that would give me the option to upgrade as i see fit.

Sony offered the opposite, and it's not worth the extra cost to me. Let me be the one to decide if i want to buy the blu-ray add-on, and any other add-on options.


If PS3 games use Blu-ray media, then Blu-ray is no longer an add-on but integral part of PS3 console.

As for not worth the extra cost to you, then don't buy it at launch wait until the price come down at least $100.


Are there any games even being developed for use with blu-ray?


From what Sony has said, I believe all PS3 games will be on blu-ray disks.

To a gamer blu-ray simply means a larger capacity disk than what DVD offers.  MS was criticized by some who believe that in the next few years games will get bigger than a single DVD can handle and that MS will than be forced back into the "dark ages" of multi-disk games.  MS believes compression software will allow it to avoid this problem.  

Sony's committment to blu-ray is based on two major assumptions.  First, that blu-ray will defeat HD-DVD and become the next movie format of choice.  Second, and more importantly, that consumers are ready to move from DVD's to a format that will allow movies in high-def.  I personally believe this latter assumption is wrong, but even if Sony is right it will be years before blu-ray becomes widespread.
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« Reply #147 on: May 15, 2006, 12:01:04 PM »

Quote from: "tripwire"
You're correct in the speed of the movie being played. I'm stating that the speed of the blu-ray will matter for everything else it can obviously be used for.


What else can it "obviously" be used for in terms of movie playback?  Bluray Data Drives for PCs are a whole different story but we are talking about standalone movie players here.
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« Reply #148 on: May 15, 2006, 09:31:05 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
What else can it "obviously" be used for in terms of movie playback?  Bluray Data Drives for PCs are a whole different story but we are talking about standalone movie players here.


The load times for PS3 games could be slower (unless cached) since the drive speed is slower than the other consoles.  Maybe that is outdated now, but that was the word last I heard.

Like you said, it won't be an issue for movie playback.
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« Reply #149 on: May 15, 2006, 11:45:07 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "tripwire"
You're correct in the speed of the movie being played. I'm stating that the speed of the blu-ray will matter for everything else it can obviously be used for.


What else can it "obviously" be used for in terms of movie playback?  Bluray Data Drives for PCs are a whole different story but we are talking about standalone movie players here.


Brain's not functioning, sorry.

The only slow down for the player is what was already mentioned, and that's load times.
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« Reply #150 on: May 16, 2006, 12:47:43 AM »

Quote from: "tripwire"
Brain's not functioning, sorry.

The only slow down for the player is what was already mentioned, and that's load times.


Totally beside the point- correct me if I'm wrong but I thought your assertion was that the PS3 would make a poor movie player since regular standalones would be faster.  My point (and Victoria's) was that disk speed is irrelevant for standalone players.   I agree that disk speed will effect load times for games but that wasn't what I disagreed with in the first place.
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« Reply #151 on: May 16, 2006, 02:47:17 AM »

Kevin, do you think the PS3 will be a quality BR player?  I have no idea, but from what I've experienced with the PS3, Xbox, and 360, movie playback on a console still leaves something to be desired.  Perhaps Sony is hoping to remedy this with their trojan horse?  At $600 I would imagine a rather large number of people will be using the PS3 as their primary BR movie player, at least until the standalone players drop in price substantially.  Perhaps those budget-minded people are a bit more forgiving when it comes to quality?  Then again picture quality seems like a strange thing to skimp on when you are looking at HD movies.

I'm not saying the PS3 will not be a good player but based on past examples I feel I have reason for my apprehension.
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« Reply #152 on: May 16, 2006, 03:42:20 AM »

Quote from: "stiffler"
Kevin, do you think the PS3 will be a quality BR player?


I think the the gap will narrow than what we saw with DVDs, at least when dealing with 1080p output.  The defining characteristic of most good DVD players is their video decoder and how well they can convert the interlaced content stored on the disc into progressive scan output.  By having movies stored in progressive format on the disc itself that should level the playing field a bit.

That said, I'm sure there will be Bluray players that will outperform the PSP, especially in areas like upconverting DVDs to 1080i/p.  

Sony definitely hopes to leverage the platform into making Bluray the accepted standard but I don't think it's in the way that most think- it won't do them a whole lot of good if people buy a PS3 *just* for playing movies.  Even at $600 Sony is probably losing money on every console sold and while Sony, as one of the format owners, will get a cut of licensing on every Bluray disc sold, I don't think either HD-DVD or Bluray will have rapid enough adoption to make that a great proposition.

Plus, while the intial models may be priced at $750 and above, I expect Bluray standalone players to drop in price *much* more rapidly than the PS3 so it won't be long before standalone players are cheaper than the PS3.  

No, I think the real hope here is that you have presumably 5 million or so PS3 owners within a year.  And people who pay $500+ for a game console are probably pretty likely to have HDTV of some sort (as compared to relatively small HDTV penetration across all consumers).  And most of those people probably like movies too.  So you've got an HDTV and a game console capable of playing Bluray, why wouldn't you pick up the latest release on Bluray instead of vanilla DVd, assuming the markup isn't too drastic?  Voila- 5 million Bluray disc customers, a number that will likely dwarf the market penetration of standalone HD-DVD and Bluray owners.  That's a huge step toward victory in the format war.

Of course, this makes it all the more idiotic that Sony would gimp the $500 version by not including HDMI.
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« Reply #153 on: May 16, 2006, 03:58:27 AM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "tripwire"
Brain's not functioning, sorry.

The only slow down for the player is what was already mentioned, and that's load times.


Totally beside the point- correct me if I'm wrong but I thought your assertion was that the PS3 would make a poor movie player since regular standalones would be faster.  My point (and Victoria's) was that disk speed is irrelevant for standalone players.   I agree that disk speed will effect load times for games but that wasn't what I disagreed with in the first place.


Did you ever notice the difference between the PS2 dvd player and any quality stand-alone?

I'm quite positive that you'll be able to tell the differences again this time around.

We'll just have to wait until the comparisons start coming out.

I'm betting on stand-alones being able to aquire a better image, without any stuttering issues, with faster load times, and of better reliability.
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« Reply #154 on: May 16, 2006, 04:51:59 AM »

Quote from: "tripwire"
Did you ever notice the difference between the PS2 dvd player and any quality stand-alone?


Don't put words in my mouth- I never said that standalone players aren't superior to the PS2- they are.  I merely pointed out that faster drive speeds aren't much of a factor at all in standalone movie players.
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« Reply #155 on: May 16, 2006, 01:42:52 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
That said, I'm sure there will be Bluray players that will outperform the PSP, especially in areas like upconverting DVDs to 1080i/p.


I agree. I think the PSP will be a HORRID Blu-Ray player. slywink
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« Reply #156 on: May 16, 2006, 01:46:08 PM »

See, the thing about DVD vs Blu-Ray is this... how many DVD drives do you own right now? How versatile is a DVD purchase for you? You can play it on your PC, on your console (ps2/xbox/360), on your laptop, on your set-top dvd player.

BluRay? On one device for a paltry 500+.

I don't see this getting any cheaper. Since HD-DVD mfg costs are estimated at being significantly lower, I could see people willing to do this.

The only way I'd be willing to pick up a BR over HD DVD or DVD for lower cost is if it came with the standard DVD on the flip-side.
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tripwire
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« Reply #157 on: May 16, 2006, 08:01:56 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "tripwire"
Did you ever notice the difference between the PS2 dvd player and any quality stand-alone?


Don't put words in my mouth- I never said that standalone players aren't superior to the PS2- they are.  I merely pointed out that faster drive speeds aren't much of a factor at all in standalone movie players.


I'm not putting any words in your mouth at all.

All the movies will be playing at the same speeds regardless of player, you're absolutely correct about that.
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« Reply #158 on: May 16, 2006, 10:36:56 PM »

Quote from: "Purge"
See, the thing about DVD vs Blu-Ray is this... how many DVD drives do you own right now? How versatile is a DVD purchase for you? You can play it on your PC, on your console (ps2/xbox/360), on your laptop, on your set-top dvd player.


Excellent point, Purge!  This is something I had not thought about at all.
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« Reply #159 on: May 17, 2006, 12:06:47 AM »

Quote from: "Purge"
See, the thing about DVD vs Blu-Ray is this... how many DVD drives do you own right now? How versatile is a DVD purchase for you? You can play it on your PC, on your console (ps2/xbox/360), on your laptop, on your set-top dvd player.

BluRay? On one device for a paltry 500+.

I don't see this getting any cheaper. Since HD-DVD mfg costs are estimated at being significantly lower, I could see people willing to do this.

The only way I'd be willing to pick up a BR over HD DVD or DVD for lower cost is if it came with the standard DVD on the flip-side.


This is why I think Sony is erring in thinking BR will have any impact.  DVD on PS2 was cool, but DVD had been out for years at that point.  This is an entirely different situation.

How many people:
a) have a high def TV which is necessary to justify BR,
b) can even tell the difference between high def movies and progressive scan DVD's (the truth is not many can tell the difference between 480p and higher resolutions),
c) can even think of spending $500 or more for a movie player,
d) are willing to start over in building up a movie collection, and
e) are willing to risk buying into a format that may not be the standard in two or three years.
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