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Author Topic: PS3 Firmware 1.8 comes out tomorrow......ITS OUT!!!!  (Read 5483 times)
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Tebunker
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« Reply #80 on: May 25, 2007, 12:57:28 PM »

Had to fidget with some settings, you need to set the PSX/PS2 game settings to full screen or you get the black box when it upscales. Grandia III looked better, didn't have a chance to plug anything else in.
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« Reply #81 on: May 25, 2007, 01:09:51 PM »

I fired up Castlevania SoTN last night and I thought it looked much better. I couldn't bring myself to play through it with my PS2, because it looked way too pixelated on my 55" HDTV, but with the scaler on and 1080i it looks a lot smoother, it reminds me of the image quality I get when playing the Castlevania games on the DS, some pixelation but not overly so.
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« Reply #82 on: May 25, 2007, 01:18:34 PM »

This might be way off topic, but wouldn't it be a good idea for Sony to bundle a PSP with every PS3?

Keep the price where it is and stress the convergence of the two?

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« Reply #83 on: May 25, 2007, 01:36:12 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on May 24, 2007, 07:42:21 PM

This does indeed make the PS3 look sweet. I almost want to think about getting to the point of considering purchasing one now. Almost!

How very commital of you.
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« Reply #84 on: May 25, 2007, 01:37:14 PM »

Quote from: Devil on May 25, 2007, 01:18:34 PM

This might be way off topic, but wouldn't it be a good idea for Sony to bundle a PSP with every PS3?

Keep the price where it is and stress the convergence of the two?



Jesus I would buy one in a heartbeat-but there really isnt any reason for them to do so. The PSP is possibly the most succesful "failure" in the recent history of gaming consoles. It sold over 200k last month, has a large user base, and is getting better and better software all the time. Some website ran a feature talking about this a month or two ago and basically concluded that if the DS wasn't out the PSP would be considered a massive sucess.
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« Reply #85 on: May 25, 2007, 01:58:37 PM »

Cal -

Not even to kick-start PS3 sales and get more units into more houses?

How much buzz would that create? How much more would they lose?

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« Reply #86 on: May 25, 2007, 02:03:12 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on May 25, 2007, 01:37:14 PM

Quote from: Devil on May 25, 2007, 01:18:34 PM

This might be way off topic, but wouldn't it be a good idea for Sony to bundle a PSP with every PS3?

Keep the price where it is and stress the convergence of the two?



Jesus I would buy one in a heartbeat-but there really isnt any reason for them to do so. The PSP is possibly the most succesful "failure" in the recent history of gaming consoles. It sold over 200k last month, has a large user base, and is getting better and better software all the time. Some website ran a feature talking about this a month or two ago and basically concluded that if the DS wasn't out the PSP would be considered a massive sucess.

Well, yes and no. I agree that the PSP has been a successful hardware seller, unfortunately software sales suck butt, especially compared to the DS.

Bundling them together would be smart, Nintendo should've done that with the Cube and GBA when they were stressing the connectivity of the two. Now the PSP/PS3 connection does so much more, but having to buy over $800 of stuff is hard to swallow.
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« Reply #87 on: May 25, 2007, 02:20:07 PM »

Quote from: Devil on May 25, 2007, 01:58:37 PM

Cal -

Not even to kick-start PS3 sales and get more units into more houses?

How much buzz would that create? How much more would they lose?


Devil-while I claim absolutely zero inside knowledge, I have been gobbling up the analysts reports lately as I debate whether or not to reacquire a PS3. While obviously you take the reports with a massive grain of salt, and some of them are notoriously unreliable and bad at their jobs (cough Pachter cough). All I know is that most analysts think that the reason Sony is not dropping the price has nothing to do with them not wanting to do it or realizing it would be good for business, but rather projecting at this point that Sony simply cannot afford to drop the price that much. If they sell more consoles at a bigger loss, they risk even greater losses after an utterly disastrous 2billion in losses last quarter. Sony, while a tremendously sucessful company, is doing poorly in its electronics division and is essentially subsidizing much of its operation through the success of Sony Pictures.

The other issue is that many analysts also fee that 100$ is not enough of a price drop to matter. Most think the 360 is pushing the limit at 400$, and that its surprisingly sluggish sales in the face of the the PS3's dreadful performance is price related. If you then project that Sony must drop the price 200$ to convince people to buy the console now even with minimal software, you then project what, a 300$ dollar loss per console (absolutele minimum) or something obscene like that? Sony cannot afford to hemmorage money like that-whats that, 60 million plus in losses per month at 200k units sold?

No no, I agree with my not so esteemed friend gellar. PS3 price is not going to drop soon.
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« Reply #88 on: May 25, 2007, 02:38:43 PM »

Cal -

I agree with what you say and everything you are reading, but is "wait it out" the best strategy at this point?

Asking you, not analysts, wouldn't it be a good idea to bundle these 2 'failed' projects together to gain some market and create some positive buzz?

How much of a loss, per unit, is giving away a PSP? What's the attach rate of both systems combined?

Nobody is paying $600 for a PS3. That's a problem.

People will never buy a game for a system they don't own.  icon_smile
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« Reply #89 on: May 25, 2007, 02:41:39 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on May 25, 2007, 02:20:07 PM

No no, I agree with my not so esteemed friend gellar. PS3 price is not going to drop soon.

I think Sony may drop its price for the holidays but I think any price drop *that will matter* isn't going to happen soon. I agree with you that what they really need is the price cut in half. I am dumbfounded that M$ hasn't dropped the 360's price to $300 by now (for the premium of course). I think once the 360 costs $300, they will immediately begin outselling the Wii, and that they most definitely will never outsell the Wii until they drop the price.
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« Reply #90 on: May 25, 2007, 02:48:50 PM »

I think its a surprisingly clever idea I wish I had suggested before you. It would be a great, great marketing too, would increase the value of the system tremendously, and would get people like me to buy it in a heartbeat. Sony's problem though, at least right now, is not the hardcore gamer. The hardcore game (ie, me and you) are going to buy the system when it tickles our fantasy. MBL 2k7? Devil is sold. Bluray and PS2 upscaling with ratchet and clank? Calvin is just about sold.

The issue sony faces now (and this is a poor summary of Croal and Keighly in Level Up) is a lack of appeal to the midstream, not hardcore yet not completely casual fan that flocked to the PS2 and made it utterly dominate the last generation of consoles. Of course, one thing that must be remembered is that PS2 did not truly become the overwhelming force it ended up as until the MSRP was 199.99 to 249.99. People bought the console in droves at that price point, and couple the price with software like the GTA series and you have an idea why the system was flying off the shelves. So what we see now is possibly 10 million plus PS2 owners that are sitting on the fence and haven't decided what to do. Microsoft obviously thought they would come to the 360 following the PS3's disastrous debut, but they haven't. They hope that will change with GTA4, but many analysts disagree absent a price drop to 300$ for the premium at the same time.

So, as Croal and Keighly discussed, where will those 10 million go? It seems unlikely to the Wii, since that console seems to be creating its own market, so that leaves...the 360 or the PS3 if they drop the prices-if not and Wii third party support ever gets better, maybe there. I am a little befuddled at the state of the console market right now.
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« Reply #91 on: May 25, 2007, 02:49:30 PM »

Quote from: JCC on May 25, 2007, 02:41:39 PM

Quote from: Calvin on May 25, 2007, 02:20:07 PM

No no, I agree with my not so esteemed friend gellar. PS3 price is not going to drop soon.
I am dumbfounded that MS hasn't dropped the 360's price to $300 by now (for the premium of course). I think once the 360 costs $300, they will immediately begin outselling the Wii, and that they most definitely will never outsell the Wii until they drop the price.

Other than your absurd use of the $, I agree with this sentiment completely in that MS will not solidify the market lead without a price drop. I also, however, agree with Tebunker that from a business standpoint they may not care right now.
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Tebunker
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« Reply #92 on: May 25, 2007, 02:49:35 PM »

Quote from: JCC on May 25, 2007, 02:41:39 PM

Quote from: Calvin on May 25, 2007, 02:20:07 PM

No no, I agree with my not so esteemed friend gellar. PS3 price is not going to drop soon.

I think Sony may drop its price for the holidays but I think any price drop *that will matter* isn't going to happen soon. I agree with you that what they really need is the price cut in half. I am dumbfounded that M$ hasn't dropped the 360's price to $300 by now (for the premium of course). I think once the 360 costs $300, they will immediately begin outselling the Wii, and that they most definitely will never outsell the Wii until they drop the price.

There's no reason for them to drop the price. They're still outselling the PS3, they aren't really hurting too bad saleswise, mainly flat with regards to the original Xbox, and they need to recoup any kind of losses they can while they have a chance. The hardware revison won't hit until this fall and that will impact the bottom line. Ultimately, they aren't under any real pressure to drop the price. It'd be different if the market was much more competitive from a PS3 standpoint, but it's not so Microsofty is comfortable making as much as possible off the hardware as long as they can.

Also, I don't think Microsoft is really concerned about outselling the Wii, I mean, do they really need to?
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« Reply #93 on: May 25, 2007, 02:56:58 PM »

You guys raise fair points and I would guess that MS (happier Calvin?  Tongue) may well not care about outselling the Wii. But, I think that it's silly for them not to care. They can wax poetic about how they aren't really competing with the Wii and that they are different products, but the way I see it is this: The 360 is a video game machine. The Wii is a video game machine. For every Wii sold that is *potentially* one customer who won't be buying 360 games. I know that the price drop may hurt them now, but if they stomp the Wii early on and build up a huge market share over BOTH Nintendo and Sony then they will benefit in a huge way in the latter half of this generation. Now, how they get these things to sell in Japan, I have no idea!
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« Reply #94 on: May 25, 2007, 03:00:07 PM »

Quote from: Tebunker on May 25, 2007, 02:49:35 PM

Quote from: JCC on May 25, 2007, 02:41:39 PM

Quote from: Calvin on May 25, 2007, 02:20:07 PM

No no, I agree with my not so esteemed friend gellar. PS3 price is not going to drop soon.

I think Sony may drop its price for the holidays but I think any price drop *that will matter* isn't going to happen soon. I agree with you that what they really need is the price cut in half. I am dumbfounded that M$ hasn't dropped the 360's price to $300 by now (for the premium of course). I think once the 360 costs $300, they will immediately begin outselling the Wii, and that they most definitely will never outsell the Wii until they drop the price.

There's no reason for them to drop the price. They're still outselling the PS3, they aren't really hurting too bad saleswise, mainly flat with regards to the original Xbox, and they need to recoup any kind of losses they can while they have a chance. The hardware revison won't hit until this fall and that will impact the bottom line. Ultimately, they aren't under any real pressure to drop the price. It'd be different if the market was much more competitive from a PS3 standpoint, but it's not so Microsofty is comfortable making as much as possible off the hardware as long as they can.

Also, I don't think Microsoft is really concerned about outselling the Wii, I mean, do they really need to?
If Halo 3 is going to be their system seller . . . it wouldn't make sense for them to drop the price yet.
Maybe next year . . . .
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« Reply #95 on: May 25, 2007, 03:14:19 PM »

Quote from: JCC on May 25, 2007, 02:56:58 PM

You guys raise fair points and I would guess that MS (happier Calvin?  Tongue) may well not care about outselling the Wii. But, I think that it's silly for them not to care. They can wax poetic about how they aren't really competing with the Wii and that they are different products, but the way I see it is this: The 360 is a video game machine. The Wii is a video game machine. For every Wii sold that is *potentially* one customer who won't be buying 360 games. I know that the price drop may hurt them now, but if they stomp the Wii early on and build up a huge market share over BOTH Nintendo and Sony then they will benefit in a huge way in the latter half of this generation. Now, how they get these things to sell in Japan, I have no idea!

Here's the thing, who can say that a price drop will "stomp the Wii", I mean folks have been saying for months that the Wii-train is going to stop or slow down, and it's only gotten bigger and bigger. See, you have to have the market research in order to do a true cost/benefit analysis. Is a $100 price drop going to steal that many customers from your competition? Are you really competing for the same customers, to a degree they are, but research has already born that new consumers are coming to the Wii that hadn't previously owned a video game system. Also, price drops aren't exclusive. Nintendo could drop the Wii $50, still be profitable, still be $100 cheaper than the 360, offer a certifiable hit of a game as a pack in, still make money/profit, and then the impact of the 360 price drop is partially or wholly negated. So I am sure Microsoft, has and is doing the research now on what kind of real impact a price drop would make. I can definitely guarantee that a $100 drop on the 360 won't stomp the Wii which is on pace to pass the 360 in worldwide sales by November, no price drop just stops that kind of momentum dead in it's tracks.
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« Reply #96 on: May 25, 2007, 03:22:14 PM »

Could the Wii be considered the gateway drug of gaming?

Stick with me here...

-Wii's are selling like crazy to people who aren't really gamers (just as planned) and it's bringing more people into gaming.

-We all know the technology in the Wii is a little behind, to say the least, in the AV department.

-In the next 3 years (one of you guys can get the numbers) how many HD TVs will be sold?

-How many people who buy those HD TVs, and are now into gaming, will 'grow into' a PS3 of 360?

Soooooo is the race really starting in 2010?

Just throwin it out there!

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« Reply #97 on: May 25, 2007, 03:43:53 PM »

well, just using rough numbers, my understanding on HDTV penentration is that some 30% of homes have them now, and that it is growing at roughly 10% a year. You have understand that doesn't mean next year HDTV penetration will be at 40%, but that it will be at 33%, and then next year it will be at 36.3% and then in year three it will be at 39.93% assuming a 10% per year of growth. So by 2010 HDTV penentration would only be 10% higher barring any kind of exponential boom, which analysts have been predicting for years now and we have yet to truly see happen. Granted double digit growth is good, but not what folks expected.
Also, if you look at the N-Gai/Keighley conversation, research bears that the majority of foks are buying HDTV's NOT for High Definition programming but more for the flatter/Thinner and larger screens. So it seems that there is still a real technology barrier for the regular public. A barrier that makes the importance of HD gaming not as important to those consumers.
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« Reply #98 on: May 25, 2007, 04:15:43 PM »

All this talk about how the Wii is bringing new customers into gaming is just talk. I can't find the link now, but one market research firm estimated that 80% of all Wii's sold in the US are going to males between the age of 12-24. That's the core gamer market right there. This makes sense to me, considering how Wiii's were nearly impossible to find up until a few weeks ago. It's the core gamer audience that was waiting in line on Sunday morning at Best Buy. You didn't see many grandparents and girls waiting in those lines and those that you did see were probably buying it for someone else.

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« Reply #99 on: May 25, 2007, 04:19:38 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on May 25, 2007, 04:15:43 PM

All this talk about how the Wii is bringing new customers into gaming is just talk. I can't find the link now, but one market research firm estimated that 80% of all Wii's sold in the US are going to males between the age of 12-24. That's the core gamer market right there. This makes sense to me, considering how Wiii's were nearly impossible to find up until a few weeks ago. It's the core gamer audience that was waiting in line on Sunday morning at Best Buy. You didn't see many grandparents and girls waiting in those lines and those that you did see were probably buying it for someone else.



Straight from Reggie's speech on Monday;
Quote
Here in the US, owners are telling us what's going on inside their household. It's not surprising that 95 percent of males age six to 24 are playing Wii on a regular basis -- that's expected. But look what's happening to other people within the household. So this first column looks at males between the age of 25 and 49. 95 percent are reporting that they've tried Wii and then there's the percent reporting that they're playing on a regular basis, which is just over 60 percent. Now let's add women to that same age band. Women 25 to 49. Almost a third are regular users. Three quarters say that they've at least tried the system. What about men over 50? 16 percent are saying that they're playing regularly. Men over 50. Females over 50. Now this is amazing. 10 percent are saying that they're regular users of the Wii. I have to believe that this is an industry first.

Sounds like a lot more non-normal users are buying/playing the machine.
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« Reply #100 on: May 25, 2007, 04:29:44 PM »

Quote from: Tebunker on May 25, 2007, 04:19:38 PM

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on May 25, 2007, 04:15:43 PM

All this talk about how the Wii is bringing new customers into gaming is just talk. I can't find the link now, but one market research firm estimated that 80% of all Wii's sold in the US are going to males between the age of 12-24. That's the core gamer market right there. This makes sense to me, considering how Wiii's were nearly impossible to find up until a few weeks ago. It's the core gamer audience that was waiting in line on Sunday morning at Best Buy. You didn't see many grandparents and girls waiting in those lines and those that you did see were probably buying it for someone else.



Straight from Reggie's speech on Monday;
Quote
Here in the US, owners are telling us what's going on inside their household. It's not surprising that 95 percent of males age six to 24 are playing Wii on a regular basis -- that's expected. But look what's happening to other people within the household. So this first column looks at males between the age of 25 and 49. 95 percent are reporting that they've tried Wii and then there's the percent reporting that they're playing on a regular basis, which is just over 60 percent. Now let's add women to that same age band. Women 25 to 49. Almost a third are regular users. Three quarters say that they've at least tried the system. What about men over 50? 16 percent are saying that they're playing regularly. Men over 50. Females over 50. Now this is amazing. 10 percent are saying that they're regular users of the Wii. I have to believe that this is an industry first.

Sounds like a lot more non-normal users are buying/playing the machine.

There's a difference between using something and buying something, though. There may be tangential benefits from having these demographics sample the Wii in high numbers, but they are never going to buy the console or games for themselves in high numbers.
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« Reply #101 on: May 25, 2007, 04:41:00 PM »

Quote from: Tebunker on May 25, 2007, 03:43:53 PM

well, just using rough numbers, my understanding on HDTV penentration is that some 30% of homes have them now, and that it is growing at roughly 10% a year. You have understand that doesn't mean next year HDTV penetration will be at 40%, but that it will be at 33%, and then next year it will be at 36.3% and then in year three it will be at 39.93% assuming a 10% per year of growth. So by 2010 HDTV penentration would only be 10% higher barring any kind of exponential boom, which analysts have been predicting for years now and we have yet to truly see happen. Granted double digit growth is good, but not what folks expected.
Also, if you look at the N-Gai/Keighley conversation, research bears that the majority of foks are buying HDTV's NOT for High Definition programming but more for the flatter/Thinner and larger screens. So it seems that there is still a real technology barrier for the regular public. A barrier that makes the importance of HD gaming not as important to those consumers.
There are two things here that you need to account for in sales of HDTV's.  First of all is 2009 when the analog signal is turned off for good and then you either need to have an HDTV to watch programing or a digital-to-analog converter.  Also, the prices of all HDTV's dropped like rocks this past holiday season.  If you look at buying a TV right now, it's more and more difficult to purchase anything but some kind of HDTV.  I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of this year or the middle of next year they stop offering analog TV sets because of the fact that you'll need the tuner anyway.  Production costs are getting lower and in the not too distant future you'll be able to get 720p TV's for roughly the same price or a little more than what you can buy them for currently.  While some people will hold onto their sets for as long as they can, HDTV penetration will probably skyrocket in the next three years at the latest.  IMHO.
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« Reply #102 on: May 25, 2007, 05:00:50 PM »

you don't need an HDTV to watch digital programming, major misconception there. Also, as my latter post stated, most folks are not buying HDTVs for High Definition programming.
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« Reply #103 on: May 25, 2007, 05:24:40 PM »

I think the price drop would help the 360 tremendously because I think $300 is a "magic number" for many, many video game machine buyers. I think the $400 price tag is strongly hurting the 360's sales. I mean just look at the 360. It has the largest library and vastly superior tech and the Wii is killing it right now. Do you really think it's just the fun of waving your remote in Wii Sports? I don't. I think price is a MAJOR factor. And once the 360 gets down to $299, I think people will begin buying it like crazy. I think the Wii being $200 and the 360 $300 would have far less impact on people's buying decision than compared to now when the 360 is $400. $300 is the point where more people can justify an impulse buy. The 360 is by far the most successful console to cost over $300, and I think it's because it's such a great product. Just my opinion but I really think that price drop to $300 would cause it to explode this holiday. I think Halo 3 won't be nearly the system seller the first two were if the 360 is still priced at $400. It will sell huge #'s to the existing install base, and move some units, but I think if they timed a price drop with Halo 3's release date, MS would really reap the benefits in a huge way. Just one man's thoughts. (Keep in mind, I don't even WANT a 360 at all right now. Even with the PS3 $200 more than the 360, I am much more likely to buy a PS3 than a 360, but if the 360 were $300 TODAY, I would seriously consider it.)
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« Reply #104 on: May 25, 2007, 07:15:36 PM »

Quote from: JCC on May 25, 2007, 05:24:40 PM

I think the price drop would help the 360 tremendously because I think $300 is a "magic number" for many, many video game machine buyers. I think the $400 price tag is strongly hurting the 360's sales. I mean just look at the 360. It has the largest library and vastly superior tech and the Wii is killing it right now. Do you really think it's just the fun of waving your remote in Wii Sports? I don't. I think price is a MAJOR factor. And once the 360 gets down to $299, I think people will begin buying it like crazy. I think the Wii being $200 and the 360 $300 would have far less impact on people's buying decision than compared to now when the 360 is $400. $300 is the point where more people can justify an impulse buy. The 360 is by far the most successful console to cost over $300, and I think it's because it's such a great product. Just my opinion but I really think that price drop to $300 would cause it to explode this holiday. I think Halo 3 won't be nearly the system seller the first two were if the 360 is still priced at $400. It will sell huge #'s to the existing install base, and move some units, but I think if they timed a price drop with Halo 3's release date, MS would really reap the benefits in a huge way. Just one man's thoughts. (Keep in mind, I don't even WANT a 360 at all right now. Even with the PS3 $200 more than the 360, I am much more likely to buy a PS3 than a 360, but if the 360 were $300 TODAY, I would seriously consider it.)

The 360's biggest problem is that it doesn't have any mainstream mindshare. Can someone define what demographic groups are going to suddenly pounce on the 360 at $299 vs. $399?
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denoginizer
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« Reply #105 on: May 25, 2007, 07:36:51 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on May 25, 2007, 07:15:36 PM

The 360's biggest problem is that it doesn't have any mainstream mindshare. Can someone define what demographic groups are going to suddenly pounce on the 360 at $299 vs. $399?

I think there is a large demographic out there that only plays one game on their console.  The three games that fit this demographic the best are Madden, GTA, and Halo.  With next gen versions of those three games coming out this fall (next gen Madden actually looks pretty good this year,) a $100 price drop on the 360 could be a perfect tipping point for alot of those people.  This would be especially true if Sony cannot match the price drop before Christmas.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2007, 07:39:31 PM by denoginizer » Logged

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semiconscious
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« Reply #106 on: May 25, 2007, 07:58:44 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on May 25, 2007, 07:15:36 PM

The 360's biggest problem is that it doesn't have any mainstream mindshare. Can someone define what demographic groups are going to suddenly pounce on the 360 at $299 vs. $399?

add this take from gameindustry.biz to the mix, & it becomes ever-more evident that it's all pretty much up for grabs, console-wise...

excerpt:

"To hardcore gamers, consoles are "special case" items; they are early adopters, generally have a large disposable income, and are willing to accept all manner of problems and flaws in order to enjoy the games they want to play. However, they are a small - if vocal - market. To everyone else, to the vast ocean of consumers to whom Microsoft must now appeal, if the PlayStation brand is to be unseated, a console is just another piece of consumer electronics, and it is subject to the same standards you would expect from your DVD player, your digital camera or your toaster.

"You wouldn't buy a specific DVD player, no matter how nice the feature-set, if a friend had told you that he bought one last year and had to return it to the manufacturer three times. You wouldn't buy a certain digital camera if you heard that they routinely break down after 13 months, and you have to pay around a third of the original purchase cost to have them repaired. You wouldn't buy a toaster if your friend had that model of toaster, said it made lovely toast, but every couple of months it burns the bread and has to be replaced.

"Silly examples? Not in the slightest; this is exactly the thought process with which the average consumer, considering a next-gen purchase, is presented. The Xbox 360 may be a magical box of wonders to the hardcore gamers enjoying the likes of Gears of War and Crackdown, but to the rest of the world, it's just another piece of consumer electronics. If they hear horror stories about reliability and customer service, they won't buy it - end of story.

Right now, those horror stories are proliferating; the word of mouth about Xbox 360 is that the games are great, but the hardware is a nightmare. If Microsoft is serious about reaching an audience with Xbox 360 which is bigger than the 20 million units achieved by Xbox, then that simply isn't good enough. It's time for Redmond to stop burying its head in the sand over this problem, and start coming up with solutions - before its unhappy customers become one of Sony's best assets."

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« Reply #107 on: May 25, 2007, 08:37:19 PM »

Quote from: ras752000
Quote from: semiconscious
& a gentle reminder to those of you still waiting it out - if you like oldies, remember that the original model (with the ps2 chip) is no longer being manufactured, & act accordingly...

Is there a different # on the box that lets you know which mfg. run the PS3 inside came from?

I am also very interested in the answer to this question.  Or, put more simply, if I purchase a PS3 now, will it still have the PS2 chip in it?

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #108 on: May 25, 2007, 08:46:48 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on May 25, 2007, 07:36:51 PM

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on May 25, 2007, 07:15:36 PM

The 360's biggest problem is that it doesn't have any mainstream mindshare. Can someone define what demographic groups are going to suddenly pounce on the 360 at $299 vs. $399?

I think there is a large demographic out there that only plays one game on their console.  The three games that fit this demographic the best are Madden, GTA, and Halo.  With next gen versions of those three games coming out this fall (next gen Madden actually looks pretty good this year,) a $100 price drop on the 360 could be a perfect tipping point for alot of those people.  This would be especially true if Sony cannot match the price drop before Christmas.



I think you've pointed out the 360's best chance to gain marketshare (at least in the US anyway). There is a lot of overlap between the existing 360 base and the audience for these games, though. We'll see if the strength of these games can push sales of the 360 to Wii and PS2 levels in February and March of 2008.
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Dante Rising
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« Reply #109 on: May 25, 2007, 11:09:41 PM »

I don't think a price drop for MS is going to draw in a large flock of mainstream consumers as many people hope. Two reasons:


1-

The Xbox 360 already has a system within striking range of the Wii's price point, but that isn't driving the system out of stores. And as witnessed by the Wii, hard drive space and wireless controllers are not a selling point to these people, so the core system is a feasible option.

I think Microsoft's main problem is that they don't have the name recognition of Nintendo and Sony. Even the most uneducated mainstream consumer knows that Nintendo is a huge gaming company, and Sony is known for being an electronics powerhouse that developed the Playstation. It doesn't take long to convert these people because the transition is so easy. Thus, if Sony had a $299 console they would be in a significantly different position.

Microsoft is known as a PC operating system company. They aren't known for games, and they aren't known for electronics. Mainstream America identifies Microsoft with a slightly frustrating operating system that they barely understand, and Microsoft Office, which they use at work. 


2-

There is a stigma about buying an HD gaming system if you don't own an HDTV. When a mainstream consumer asks a sales associate for information about an xbox 360, at some point many sales people will say something like "and you really need an HDTV to get the full experience..."  Well, now you've just convinced a person who doesn't own an HDTV that they either can't fully appreciate their new toy, or they need to drop ANOTHER $500 minimum.
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« Reply #110 on: May 25, 2007, 11:32:33 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on May 25, 2007, 08:37:19 PM

Quote from: ras752000
Quote from: semiconscious
& a gentle reminder to those of you still waiting it out - if you like oldies, remember that the original model (with the ps2 chip) is no longer being manufactured, & act accordingly...

Is there a different # on the box that lets you know which mfg. run the PS3 inside came from?

I am also very interested in the answer to this question.  Or, put more simply, if I purchase a PS3 now, will it still have the PS2 chip in it?

-Autistic Angel

just looked at the box mine came in, &, no, i can't see any indication when it was made. all i can suggest is asking when when the store received the console - if it's been sitting around since before april (& the odds are still be pretty good that it has), grab it...
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« Reply #111 on: May 26, 2007, 12:26:42 AM »

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on May 25, 2007, 07:15:36 PM

The 360's biggest problem is that it doesn't have any mainstream mindshare. Can someone define what demographic groups are going to suddenly pounce on the 360 at $299 vs. $399?

The demographic would be the people who bought a PS2 (or an X-Box) for $299 or less who have not bought a 360, a PS3, or a Wii. That is a massive number.
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« Reply #112 on: May 26, 2007, 12:36:52 AM »

Quote from: Dante Rising on May 25, 2007, 11:09:41 PM

The Xbox 360 already has a system within striking range of the Wii's price point, but that isn't driving the system out of stores. And as witnessed by the Wii, hard drive space and wireless controllers are not a selling point to these people, so the core system is a feasible option.

But, public perception is (and any time anyone asks a Blue Shirt of a Red Shirt about it they will be informed) that the Core is a gimped machine. Plus, you automatically have to buy a memory card for it for it to play any game on it, which pushes it over that magical $300 number. With a Wii $250 buys you the full deal AND a game. You don't have to buy a memory card or anything else to enjoy the system. (Note, I still think the Wii is overpriced by $50!   icon_mad )

Quote
I think Microsoft's main problem is that they don't have the name recognition of Nintendo and Sony. Even the most uneducated mainstream consumer knows that Nintendo is a huge gaming company, and Sony is known for being an electronics powerhouse that developed the Playstation. It doesn't take long to convert these people because the transition is so easy. Thus, if Sony had a $299 console they would be in a significantly different position.

I don't agree. Microsoft is certainly not some unknown name out there, and the X-Box may have finished a distant 2nd, but the name "X-Box" is a totally mainstream name associated with video game console. Any disadvantage MS has in this area is no different than what Sony faced when they released the original Playstation and it certainly didn't hurt Sony.

Quote
Microsoft is known as a PC operating system company. They aren't known for games, and they aren't known for electronics. Mainstream America identifies Microsoft with a slightly frustrating operating system that they barely understand, and Microsoft Office, which they use at work. 

And Sony wasn't known as a video game console maker either. I see what you're saying in that electronics company may be closer to console maker than Microsoft is, but Microsoft has published many video games before, and I think this issue would be more of an issue for the X-Box than the 360. Everyone is aware that Microsoft makes the X-Box and everyone knows what an X-Box is.

Quote
There is a stigma about buying an HD gaming system if you don't own an HDTV. When a mainstream consumer asks a sales associate for information about an xbox 360, at some point many sales people will say something like "and you really need an HDTV to get the full experience..."  Well, now you've just convinced a person who doesn't own an HDTV that they either can't fully appreciate their new toy, or they need to drop ANOTHER $500 minimum.

Now HERE I think you are on to something. I think both MS and Sony erred by pushing the HD capabilities of their system as the focal selling point. I agree that there are some people who will feel like they can't fully benefit from these systems without an HD TV (and to some extent they are correct). While if someone with an HD TV wants to play a Nintendo game, only a small # of people are going to not buy it when they hear there is no HD support. I think MS and Sony pushed the HD thing a gen (or maybe 2 gens) to early. There's nothing wrong with putting the capability in there, but they should have marketed the graphics themselves and not made such a focus on pushing HD IMO.

Anyway, it's a fun debate!  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #113 on: May 26, 2007, 12:38:49 AM »

Quote from: JCC on May 26, 2007, 12:26:42 AM

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on May 25, 2007, 07:15:36 PM

The 360's biggest problem is that it doesn't have any mainstream mindshare. Can someone define what demographic groups are going to suddenly pounce on the 360 at $299 vs. $399?

The demographic would be the people who bought a PS2 (or an X-Box) for $299 or less who have not bought a 360, a PS3, or a Wii. That is a massive number.

And they aren't suddenly going to run out and buy a 360 simply becauase it's $299. Microsoft still hasn't delivered a product with a library that appeals to that audience.
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« Reply #114 on: May 26, 2007, 12:58:02 AM »

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on May 26, 2007, 12:38:49 AM

And they aren't suddenly going to run out and buy a 360 simply becauase it's $299. Microsoft still hasn't delivered a product with a library that appeals to that audience.

I don't disagree, but I also think that Halo 3 isn't going to move new 360 sales like Halo 3 and a $299 price tag would. The crux of my argument is I think $299 is a magic # for a lot of people who made the PS2 the dominant console. If you disagree, that's fine.   finger  Tongue
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