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Author Topic: PS3 artist fired for small criticism of console  (Read 1654 times)
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Daehawk
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« on: February 03, 2006, 05:37:14 PM »

Quote
PS3 comments he made on his personal blog site. Apparently, Josh made some critical remarks about the PS3's hardware capability and got the axe for it.
Here is a clip from the Interview:

How do you respond to critics around the web who say that, as a 3D artist, you're not qualified to make a technical judgment about the PS3 development?
You know the internet/forums and blogs are a strange place. If I went online right now and said the sky was blue, 100 people would probably tell me to STFU noob or argue with me and tell me I'm not a weather man. In which case I should STFU anyway. So I don't take much to heart when people want to argue with me about that. The bottom line: If I am looking at a next-generation system (the Xbox 360 for example) I expect to see next-gen technology. If I don't see that next-gen technology then I'm inclined to be disappointed. I don't need to know how to code for the Xbox to know that I'd rather have soft shadowing in a game.



The blog has been deleted but you can read a copy of it HERE!
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Daehawk
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2006, 05:37:54 PM »

Whoops wrong forum. Im so used to posting in PC lol. Could a nice bored mod move it for me thnx smile
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Calvin
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2006, 05:44:15 PM »

Nice Sony. Classy. Sets a great precedent. Way to be.
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2006, 05:52:28 PM »

Quote from: "Daehawk"
Whoops wrong forum. Im so used to posting in PC lol. Could a nice bored mod move it for me thnx smile

Zzzzz... wha?

(moved by the way)
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2006, 06:05:11 PM »

I'm not sure why this is controversial.  He criticized the company he works for in a public forum and that criticism actually made the news on several high profile sites.  Whether what he said was true or not, why wouldn't he expect to be fired?

I mean, would anyone be surprised if Kathode had been fired for posting something like this back in September:

"Man, no way does Oblivion make the 360 launch.  Take 2 hasn't announced it yet but, trust me, we're way behind.  It's pretty choppy right now too and we're having some pretty severe problems with our shadow system."
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Gratch
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2006, 07:17:23 PM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
Nice Sony. Classy. Sets a great precedent. Way to be.


Yeah.  Never mind the fact that he's criticizing his employer in a public forum, that he's listing specifics that (from what I understand) are now being taken as fact by industry folks, and that I'm sure he is breaking a NDA by spouting off like he did.  Whether it's true or not is irrelevant.  The guy is just an idiot.

Er, I mean Sony is teh Evil.
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Calvin
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2006, 07:21:07 PM »

Quote from: "Gratch"
Quote from: "Calvin"
Nice Sony. Classy. Sets a great precedent. Way to be.


Yeah.  Never mind the fact that he's criticizing his employer in a public forum, that he's listing specifics that (from what I understand) are now being taken as fact by industry folks, and that I'm sure he is breaking a NDA by spouting off like he did.  Whether it's true or not is irrelevant.  The guy is just an idiot.

Er, I mean Sony is teh Evil.


Ok maybe im just saying waht I am saying because I can't find much wrong with the quote provided-does he go into detail that breaks his NDA in the original blog posted?
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Daehawk
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2006, 08:14:11 PM »

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Ok maybe im just saying waht I am saying because I can't find much wrong with the quote provided-does he go into detail that breaks his NDA in the original blog posted?


A link to the blog post is in my post smile
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Darren8r
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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2006, 09:57:00 PM »

Bad move by this guy.
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2006, 11:29:45 PM »

I doubt this was his first blog entry, and the fact that they fired him is abysmal. MS had to contend with nay-sayers before the 360 launch; you didn't get firings hitting the news because of honesty. Not only did he drop disclaimers stating the tech shortcomings are 'just what he heard' he also doesn't say that the PS3 is less capable than the 360.

Weak, Sony. Next you'll have us burning books that speak against Sony.

I don't think this is a career-ending move. If he's a talented artist, he will get another job with another company... so long as they aren't a Sony exclusive house.
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« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2006, 01:35:59 AM »

Quote from: "Purge"
MS had to contend with nay-sayers before the 360 launch; you didn't get firings hitting the news because of honesty.


Offhand I can't recall any examples of MS employees being negative about the 360.  Do you have an example in mind?
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2006, 05:38:09 AM »

he's not a sony employee; his blog mentions co-workers working on xbox360 titles.

There were a few developers commenting on the poor execution of hardware that the 360 dev kits. Search this forum if you need references, I'm sure there were threads on "OMG 360 devs complaining" or somesuch. pre-nov21 it was big news.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2006, 07:08:34 AM »

Quote from: "Purge"
he's not a sony employee; his blog mentions co-workers working on xbox360 titles.


Yes, he was a Sony employee.  SOE to be exact:

http://www.joshrobinson.com/Resume.html

The people working on 360 titles are workers from other developers.
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HankRaptor
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2006, 01:14:29 PM »

He should have been fired. You cant speak ill of the company when you work there.

And I seriously doubt the PS3 will be any less powerful than the 360... it would be suicide.. It will be a good machine Im sure.
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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2006, 01:34:10 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Purge"
he's not a sony employee; his blog mentions co-workers working on xbox360 titles.


Yes, he was a Sony employee.  SOE to be exact:

http://www.joshrobinson.com/Resume.html

The people working on 360 titles are workers from other developers.


SOE. Figures.
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« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2006, 05:43:05 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
The people working on 360 titles are workers from other developers.



As I understand it, SOE isn't "Sony Corp", it's a subsiduary company (which has an Xbox360 title (FFXI). In the interview he mentions being taken down to Sony Corp. and THEY fired him.

It would be like An Olive Garden employee stating he wasn't impressed with Red Lobsters seafood menu and getting fired for it.

(General Mills owns both Olive Garden and Red Lobster or at least they did when I worked for them).

They are  two different product lines, and per the interview he states he never broke any NDA's.
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kathode
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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2006, 06:31:10 PM »

Blogging about work is a verified bad idea.  Most bloggers understand what it means to be "dooced."  He was biting the hand that feeds him, plain and simple.  You can't expect for everything to be just fine when you decide to go public on everything you think is wrong with internal matters at your company.  There are hundreds of people working on PS3 stuff who don't feel the need to run out and post thousand-word rambling screeds about how the project they're working on sucks and how the vaunted capabilities of the highly sensitive development hardware they've been entrusted with aren't all they're cracked up to be (or the opposite).  You're a member of a team.  Deal with that crap internally, or quit and move on and trust them to succeed or fail on their own merits.  He may well be a talented artist who can get other work, but I guarantee the first question he's going to get asked in an interview is "So, what are you going to say about this job in your blog?"  I don't think Sony is in any way sacrosanct, I just think this guy didn't think this through very well.
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« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2006, 09:06:14 PM »

I think that yeah, he's a bit of an idiot for "biting the hand that feeds" but Sonys reaction to it was to make an example of him.

I don't think the punishment fit, given the fact that none of the information fell into NDA-breaking territory. It sounds like he doesn't much care right now, but I'd feel the odds would be in his favour in a  wrongful dismissal case.

::shrug::
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« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2006, 04:29:39 AM »

Quote from: "Purge"
As I understand it, SOE isn't "Sony Corp", it's a subsiduary company (which has an Xbox360 title (FFXI). In the interview he mentions being taken down to Sony Corp. and THEY fired him.
.


FFXI is developed and published by Square Enix.  My understanding is that SOE is just contracted to provide online support in North America, a relationship that has existed as far back as FFXI's release on the PC over here.  I'm assuming that they will continue the contract for North American support of the 360 version of FFXI but I wouldn't call that SOE developing a game for the 360.  SOE's previous games, the two Champions titles and Untold Legends, have been exclusive to Sony platforms.  

And if Sony Corp has the power to fire him then I'd say that is pretty conclusive proof that he worked for Sony.

As for violating NDAs, to my the best of my recollection it was not public knowledge that SOE was working on a PS3 launch title so that admission in itself is likely a violation of NDA.  And forgive me if I don't think a guy who had the poor judgement to make this post in the first place may not be the best judge of whether he was violating NDA.  He should have cleared his comments with public relations first.  

As for wrongful termination- SOE has a case that this guy cost them lost sales by claiming that their title  was a basic "get it out the door" title so I think he would be fighting a losing battle on that end.
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« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2006, 02:44:56 PM »

On the other hand he didn't disclose WHICH title he was working on, therefore not costing sales. slywink  I can think of a few "get it out the door titles" for console launches.... like pretty much ALL of them. (Including Halo with it's Library level, poor net-code etc...)
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2006, 03:52:48 PM »

Quote from: "Purge"
On the other hand he didn't disclose WHICH title he was working on, therefore not costing sales. slywink  I can think of a few "get it out the door titles" for console launches.... like pretty much ALL of them. (Including Halo with it's Library level, poor net-code etc...)


I will be dearly surprised if SOE has more than one launch title.
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« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2006, 05:03:48 PM »

What a disgruntled former employee says about his former employer should always be taken with a huge grain of salt.
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« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2006, 09:21:34 PM »

Quote from: "FlyingElvis"
What a disgruntled former employee says about his former employer should always be taken with a huge grain of salt.


He wasn't former till after he said it. Still, maybe he had short timers disease?
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