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Author Topic: PS2/PS3 Unscientific Comparison of PS2 games (5mb pics!)  (Read 2729 times)
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Knightshade Dragon
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« on: November 26, 2006, 02:15:36 AM »

These are kept ultra high rez for a reason, you were warned.

First off, I purchased the adapter to allow me to transfer my PS2 saves to my PS3 hard drive and got that working after 4-5 attempts of reinserting the card.  I finally got the data pulled over and what I found was not good.

First off, the PS3 automatically puts PS2 games at 480p, regardless of whether the game originally supported it.  I tossed in FFXII as I'm nowhere NEAR finished with it to see how it looked with the slight bump in quality....

First up we have the PS2's text quality:


For the basis of comparison, the same screen on the PS3:


And now a screenshot from the PS2:


For the basis of comparison, as close as I could remember on the PS3:



Note how the lines on the PS3 on text and overall 'clarity' has become jagged?  There is also a bit of drop-shadow over anything that is 'bright' that occurs when bumped to 480p.  I'm gonna search in my manual on the PS3 for how to turn that crap off.  If I can't, I'll be finishing the game on my PS2 thanks...
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« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2006, 02:20:55 AM »

Jeez, it actually looks worse. Is that my eyes failing me?
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« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2006, 02:55:42 AM »

How do you have it plugged in?  PS2 in one input (via component presumably) and PS3 on another input (HDMI maybe)?  Honestly, the major differences I see in these images appear to be calibration dependent (contrast, brightness, and sharpness)- if you have them hooked up via separate inputs, then each input is likely calibrated differently. 
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« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2006, 03:12:14 AM »

Looks considerably worse!
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« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2006, 03:17:55 AM »

They both look like azz to me.  icon_lol
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« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2006, 03:25:43 AM »

Quote from: denoginizer on November 26, 2006, 03:17:55 AM

They both look like azz to me.  icon_lol

Yeah, this is exactly why I went with a 32" CRT for my gaming HDTV last year.  I still play so much "older" generation games that good SD picture was essential to me.  Both of those pics look just awful to me.  Maybe in a few years I'lll upgrade to a 42" LCD/DLP/Plasma for my gaming. 
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« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2006, 03:27:47 AM »

Quote from: denoginizer on November 26, 2006, 03:17:55 AM

They both look like azz to me.  icon_lol

 icon_lol

Very true. What Kevin said is right though, if one is via HDMI and the other is via Component....then there may be many reasons why the pics look different or worse on one or the other.
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« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2006, 03:28:45 AM »

I'll have to take a look at what FF12 looks like on my PS3 tomorrow.
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« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2006, 03:29:29 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on November 26, 2006, 02:55:42 AM

How do you have it plugged in?  PS2 in one input (via component presumably) and PS3 on another input (HDMI maybe)?  Honestly, the major differences I see in these images appear to be calibration dependent (contrast, brightness, and sharpness)- if you have them hooked up via separate inputs, then each input is likely calibrated differently. 

The PS2 is via Component and the PS3 is HDMI, that is correct.  I'd say sure on some calibration but I can take a game like Genji or Resistance or a BluRay movie and it looks fantabulous.  The other half of the brightness/contrast/etc. is my inability to take a decent picture regardless of what camera I hold.  I could snap a picture of any of the launch titles to show you what I mean. smile
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« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2006, 03:30:01 AM »

Quote from: Hetz on November 26, 2006, 03:28:45 AM

I'll have to take a look at what FF12 looks like on my PS3 tomorrow.


Please do, and tell me what cable setups you are using for both please. 
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« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2006, 03:45:30 AM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on November 26, 2006, 03:29:29 AM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on November 26, 2006, 02:55:42 AM

How do you have it plugged in?  PS2 in one input (via component presumably) and PS3 on another input (HDMI maybe)?  Honestly, the major differences I see in these images appear to be calibration dependent (contrast, brightness, and sharpness)- if you have them hooked up via separate inputs, then each input is likely calibrated differently. 

The PS2 is via Component and the PS3 is HDMI, that is correct.  I'd say sure on some calibration but I can take a game like Genji or Resistance or a BluRay movie and it looks fantabulous.  The other half of the brightness/contrast/etc. is my inability to take a decent picture regardless of what camera I hold.  I could snap a picture of any of the launch titles to show you what I mean. smile

Calibration isn't just input dependent- it's often resolution dependent too.  I have to manually adjust my contrast and brighness to keep the same correct picture if I change my DVD player (hooked up with HDMI) from 1080i upconversion to straight up 480p.

Without "equalizing" the picture with the calibartion DVD, the same image is often going to look different betweeen input and using two different connection types makes it that much more apparent.  FFXII may indeed look much worse on the PS3 than it does on PS2, but the differences I'm seeing in these photos don't look like that. 
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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2006, 04:07:09 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on November 26, 2006, 03:45:30 AM

Calibration isn't just input dependent- it's often resolution dependent too.  I have to manually adjust my contrast and brighness to keep the same correct picture if I change my DVD player (hooked up with HDMI) from 1080i upconversion to straight up 480p.

I have the same issue with my HD TV (a 32' widescreen LG to be specific), too. Whenever I go into HD mode (anything above 480p), I tend to have to jack up the in-game brightness controls (or mess with my TV's brightness controls). It's just a lot darker for whatever reason on 720p/1080i.

And wasn't Final Fantasy XII one of the 'problem' games on the PS3's emulation? Or am I thinking of another popular title/series?
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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2006, 04:40:07 AM »

Quote from: Destructor on November 26, 2006, 04:07:09 AM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on November 26, 2006, 03:45:30 AM

Calibration isn't just input dependent- it's often resolution dependent too.  I have to manually adjust my contrast and brighness to keep the same correct picture if I change my DVD player (hooked up with HDMI) from 1080i upconversion to straight up 480p.

I have the same issue with my HD TV (a 32' widescreen LG to be specific), too. Whenever I go into HD mode (anything above 480p), I tend to have to jack up the in-game brightness controls (or mess with my TV's brightness controls). It's just a lot darker for whatever reason on 720p/1080i.

And wasn't Final Fantasy XII one of the 'problem' games on the PS3's emulation? Or am I thinking of another popular title/series?

The brightness is my fault with the camera.  The pictures don't show it well, but they are the same brightness.  It is the jaggedness of any text and the drop shadow on way too much stuff that concerns me. 
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« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2006, 04:57:07 AM »

Quote from: denoginizer on November 26, 2006, 03:17:55 AM

They both look like azz to me.  icon_lol

Totally.  I have zero expectations of any PS2 game to look good on any sizable HDTV, regardless of what black magic or technical mumbo jumbo someone claims is going on.

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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2006, 05:09:33 AM »

does FF12 really look a lot better on old SDTVs?

I'm asking because I truly have not played anything on a SDTV in a very long time...I got my HDTV about 2.5 years ago, so I'm totally used to how PS2 games look on my system now and I really don't think it's bad to me.  in fact, every time I'm playing it I'm really impressed with FF12's graphics and world detail for a PS2 game

someone post some camera pics of FF12 on your SDTV
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2006, 05:39:31 AM »

Quote from: KePoW on November 26, 2006, 05:09:33 AM

does FF12 really look a lot better on old SDTVs?

someone post some camera pics of FF12 on your SDTV

Well, here are some quick pics I just did in the same area as KD's. Not technically an SDTV, but it's 480i on my CRT HDTV, which is pretty close. To my eye they look better but doing this has also shown me that what really makes FFXII look so good is the fluidity and animation of everything which really doesn't come across in static pictures. 


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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2006, 06:45:39 AM »

This is part of the reason why backward compatability is a non-issue for me in the HDTV generation. Put any xbox/PS2/gamecube game on a decent sized HDTV and you get to see all those glaring graphic defects and jaggies. Playing FF12 on my friend's 42" LCD is just painful.
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« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2006, 09:51:37 AM »

Quote from: Dante Rising on November 26, 2006, 06:45:39 AM

This is part of the reason why backward compatability is a non-issue for me in the HDTV generation. Put any xbox/PS2/gamecube game on a decent sized HDTV and you get to see all those glaring graphic defects and jaggies. Playing FF12 on my friend's 42" LCD is just painful.

It must be a shame to be a graphics whore Tongue  Missing out on all those great games that have basically everything else.  Of course I don't have a 42" LCD tv so I guess I don't really have anything to compare it to.  I bet I'd rather play FFXII than that mediocre Xbox 360 RPG that I don't even remember the name of anymore.  Or the PS3's first mediocre RPG for that matter.

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« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2006, 12:28:31 PM »

do you have a PS3 that we could see the same shots?  My game looks as smooth at 480i on my PS2 as the shots you are showing.  Its the 480p on the PS3 that looks like it might cut you with the jaggies...
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« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2006, 12:51:44 PM »

I WANT THIS DAMN GAME!!!!!!!...lucky Americans
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« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2006, 01:29:26 PM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on November 26, 2006, 12:51:44 PM

I WANT THIS DAMN GAME!!!!!!!...lucky Americans

It is pretty fantastic.  When it it scheduled to hit in Europe?
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« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2006, 01:42:11 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on November 26, 2006, 01:29:26 PM

Quote from: metallicorphan on November 26, 2006, 12:51:44 PM

I WANT THIS DAMN GAME!!!!!!!...lucky Americans
It is pretty fantastic.  When it it scheduled to hit in Europe?

Isn't it early next year somewhere? Along with all the other recent Final Fantasy releases that Europe hasn't gotten it for whatever reason.
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« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2006, 02:50:12 PM »

late february i'm afraid

there is no release schedule for final fantasy 3 on the DS here yet...why does god hate me?
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« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2006, 03:30:13 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on November 26, 2006, 12:28:31 PM

do you have a PS3 that we could see the same shots?  My game looks as smooth at 480i on my PS2 as the shots you are showing.  Its the 480p on the PS3 that looks like it might cut you with the jaggies...

Unfortunately, no PS3 here. 
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« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2006, 04:18:59 PM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on November 26, 2006, 02:50:12 PM

late february i'm afraid
there is no release schedule for final fantasy 3 on the DS here yet...why does god hate me?

God doesn't hate you - Square does.  icon_biggrin

Just import the game if you want it that badly. The DS (as well as the GBA) are region free.
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« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2006, 06:05:30 PM »

Quote from: Dante Rising on November 26, 2006, 06:45:39 AM

This is part of the reason why backward compatability is a non-issue for me in the HDTV generation. Put any xbox/PS2/gamecube game on a decent sized HDTV and you get to see all those glaring graphic defects and jaggies. Playing FF12 on my friend's 42" LCD is just painful.

That's odd.  Playing it on my LCD HDTV it still looks fantastic.  Low-res, yes, but fantastic nonetheless.  And yes, I can tell that running it in widescreen mode stretches the horizontal pixels out; the jaggies are much more pronounced this way.  But the game still looks great anyway. icon_biggrin
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« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2006, 07:28:45 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on November 26, 2006, 04:18:59 PM

Quote from: metallicorphan on November 26, 2006, 02:50:12 PM

late february i'm afraid
there is no release schedule for final fantasy 3 on the DS here yet...why does god hate me?

God doesn't hate you - Square does.  icon_biggrin

Just import the game if you want it that badly. The DS (as well as the GBA) are region free.

gonna hold out...those games being put back isnt as bad as square or god want it to be for me actually,as i get my wii a week this friday,i have sooo many games to play on the 360,and i want to get back to kingdom hearts complete that so i can actually play kingdom hearts 2,which hasnt been taken out of the box yet.......i finished bully...good game,i enjoyed it
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« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2006, 10:57:09 PM »

Quote from: Canuck on November 26, 2006, 09:51:37 AM

Quote from: Dante Rising on November 26, 2006, 06:45:39 AM

This is part of the reason why backward compatability is a non-issue for me in the HDTV generation. Put any xbox/PS2/gamecube game on a decent sized HDTV and you get to see all those glaring graphic defects and jaggies. Playing FF12 on my friend's 42" LCD is just painful.

It must be a shame to be a graphics whore Tongue  Missing out on all those great games that have basically everything else.  Of course I don't have a 42" LCD tv so I guess I don't really have anything to compare it to.  I bet I'd rather play FFXII than that mediocre Xbox 360 RPG that I don't even remember the name of anymore.  Or the PS3's first mediocre RPG for that matter.


I quickly switched back to my SD CRT TV after playing my PS2 on this HDTV I got. It is hard to play after such crisp quality on the CRT. The only game I played that looked good was Gran Turismo 4.
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« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2006, 11:23:02 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on November 26, 2006, 10:57:09 PM

Quote from: Canuck on November 26, 2006, 09:51:37 AM

Quote from: Dante Rising on November 26, 2006, 06:45:39 AM

This is part of the reason why backward compatability is a non-issue for me in the HDTV generation. Put any xbox/PS2/gamecube game on a decent sized HDTV and you get to see all those glaring graphic defects and jaggies. Playing FF12 on my friend's 42" LCD is just painful.

It must be a shame to be a graphics whore Tongue  Missing out on all those great games that have basically everything else.  Of course I don't have a 42" LCD tv so I guess I don't really have anything to compare it to.  I bet I'd rather play FFXII than that mediocre Xbox 360 RPG that I don't even remember the name of anymore.  Or the PS3's first mediocre RPG for that matter.


I quickly switched back to my SD CRT TV after playing my PS2 on this HDTV I got. It is hard to play after such crisp quality on the CRT. The only game I played that looked good was Gran Turismo 4.
I am tempted to do the same for FF12-but I have like a 27in 10 year old curved screen SDTV-I mean, come on, how can it really look any worse on the Plasma? smile
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« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2006, 11:29:01 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on November 26, 2006, 11:23:02 PM

I am tempted to do the same for FF12-but I have like a 27in 10 year old curved screen SDTV-I mean, come on, how can it really look any worse on the Plasma? smile

exactly, that's what I was thinking.  I mean I honestly don't remember PS2 games looking way better on my old SDTV
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« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2006, 02:35:52 AM »

Quote from: KePoW on November 26, 2006, 11:29:01 PM

Quote from: Calvin on November 26, 2006, 11:23:02 PM

I am tempted to do the same for FF12-but I have like a 27in 10 year old curved screen SDTV-I mean, come on, how can it really look any worse on the Plasma? smile

exactly, that's what I was thinking.  I mean I honestly don't remember PS2 games looking way better on my old SDTV

Depends on the TV.  A lot of HDTVs, particularly LCDs, have awful, awful SD picture quality.  However there are some that do an excellent job. 
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« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2006, 01:38:52 PM »

KD, looks like you were right- this seems to be an issue with aliasing of 2D images (like the FFXII menu).  (Credit to QT3 for the link). 
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« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2006, 04:08:32 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on November 28, 2006, 01:38:52 PM

KD, looks like you were right- this seems to be an issue with aliasing of 2D images (like the FFXII menu).  (Credit to QT3 for the link). 

I've been scratching my head for days now, calibrating and re-calibrating this TV to see if I could fix it.  Good to know I wasn't completely insane here...
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« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2006, 04:10:33 PM »

From reading more about it on GAF, sounds like it's a 480i to 480p conversion issue.  Evidently games that support 480p natively don't have the issue.
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« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2006, 04:30:14 PM »

Apparently Sony didn't do a great job on upconversion in general.  D'oh!
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« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2006, 08:21:45 PM »

I'm still saying that even just on a PS2, there is wildly different picture quality just depending on the type of tv and connection cables you are using. On my LCD HDTV, FF12 looks just awful frown
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« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2006, 01:55:15 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on November 28, 2006, 04:10:33 PM

From reading more about it on GAF, sounds like it's a 480i to 480p conversion issue.  Evidently games that support 480p natively don't have the issue.

Yep, that is what it is. Here is the fix:

Quote
To fix the screen image, just set the Display Setting in the XMB to 480i before loading up a game. This will get rid of that nasty image quality. If your game supports 480p (ie. Shadow of the Colossus) you don't need to do this. This apparently is only an issue in 480i games. Its a pain, but I'll gladly do it over and over for better image quality.
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« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2006, 02:26:58 AM »

Quote from: Hetz on November 30, 2006, 01:55:15 AM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on November 28, 2006, 04:10:33 PM

From reading more about it on GAF, sounds like it's a 480i to 480p conversion issue.  Evidently games that support 480p natively don't have the issue.

Yep, that is what it is. Here is the fix:

Quote
To fix the screen image, just set the Display Setting in the XMB to 480i before loading up a game. This will get rid of that nasty image quality. If your game supports 480p (ie. Shadow of the Colossus) you don't need to do this. This apparently is only an issue in 480i games. Its a pain, but I'll gladly do it over and over for better image quality.

Sure seems like a lot of conversion issues going on with the system between 1080i Sets getting 480p instead and now having to manually set 480i mode.
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« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2006, 02:38:23 AM »

This is pretty ridiculous. I simply find it hard to believe that Sony didn't realize these issues existed at the design stage. If they didn't, then they simply chose to ignore them. Neither answer looks very flattering. What good does it do to have all this wonderful technology if you can't use it to its best advantage or it becomes a chore to do so?

/em puzzled
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« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2006, 04:23:18 AM »

Quote from: Arkon on November 30, 2006, 02:26:58 AM

Quote from: Hetz on November 30, 2006, 01:55:15 AM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on November 28, 2006, 04:10:33 PM

From reading more about it on GAF, sounds like it's a 480i to 480p conversion issue.  Evidently games that support 480p natively don't have the issue.

Yep, that is what it is. Here is the fix:

Quote
To fix the screen image, just set the Display Setting in the XMB to 480i before loading up a game. This will get rid of that nasty image quality. If your game supports 480p (ie. Shadow of the Colossus) you don't need to do this. This apparently is only an issue in 480i games. Its a pain, but I'll gladly do it over and over for better image quality.

Sure seems like a lot of conversion issues going on with the system between 1080i Sets getting 480p instead and now having to manually set 480i mode.

You don't have to do it with every PS2 game. Only the ones that don't support 480p. In fact, Final Fantasy XII looks just fine to me at 480p via HDMI anyway....maybe different sets deal with it in different ways.  Frankly, I still can't believe they didn't support progressive for FFXII.
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