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Author Topic: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones  (Read 6533 times)
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mikeg
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« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2005, 07:22:38 PM »

I agree. It does not look as good at all.  And I am finding the camera wonkier.  Like the story and gameplay well enough though, so, I can live with it.  Oh, and I don't miss the rock music either.
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2005, 07:43:23 PM »

I agree that the graphics seem like a step down from the previous two games. I also think the animations, which were so very good in the first game aren't up to snuff, either. It's almost like you can tell which animations were culled from previous titles and which were created for this game.

I just played through the chariot race segment and found it to be a pleasant surprise. I was kind of rolling my eyes when I first heard about the feature ("just what PoP needs, vehicles!"), but I thought they really did a good job with it.

Chaz, I agree about the difficulty in timing the speed kills really ramping up. I'm finding that this is balanced out by the rewind power, though. If I don't pull off a speed kill or if I get noticed before I'm positioned properly, I just rewind and try again.
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« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2005, 02:57:35 AM »

I really liked the first one but could never get a hang of the jumping from wall to wall in order to reach certain places (like the statue right at the beginning of the game).  The combat was great but that just killed the game for me-  I could never get the timing right  :cry:
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Turtle
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« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2005, 06:31:49 AM »

These two threads contain a bunch of concept art for the game, they're really big, so 56kers should avoid these.

http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=57060
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56988

I know what I'll be playing once finals end.
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EddieA
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« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2005, 07:13:49 AM »

The wall jumps were, for some reason, much less forgiving than the other moves, but there are only a few of them in SoT, IIRC.  The only game I've played where this move wasn't frustrating is Ratchet & Clank.
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2005, 06:38:45 PM »

My enthusiasm for this title has cooled a bit since I first started playing it. Overall, the game is still much better than Warrior Within, but it falls short in comparison to Sands of Time. First, the story is just extremely shallow when compared with SoT. SoT’s story was subtle, and had all these great interactions between Farrah and the Prince that added so much to the game. In the new one, you have the narrator occasionally burst in to deliver a sermon about the Prince’s behavior and how the player should feel about it. There’s also this internal monologue between the Dark Prince and Prince that becomes grating in how trite it is. Again, it’s better than Warrior Within, but it’s much closer to average juvenile video game story and suffers greatly when compared to SoT.

I also think the gameplay is getting a little stale. There aren’t any new wrinkles in the platforming sections beyond the speed kill system and I think this one doesn’t have as many inventive environments and puzzles as the previous two games. It’s still a lot of fun, but it’s the third game in three years and I’m starting to feel a bit of a “been there, done that” vibe as I play.

SoT was a ten in my book. This feels like an eight so far.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2005, 09:19:36 PM »

I'll disagree with Andrew a bit and say I think its utterly fantastic.  I think its by far the best game in the series though the standards of production and storytelling aren't quite at the level of Sands of Time.  Still, I think the writing is pretty good this time around though and have enjoyed the story very much.  

I'm just reaching the final stretch of the game and at this point it will probably be number three on my year end list, behind only Dragon Quest 8 and God of War.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2005, 06:08:00 AM »

Just finished up and, wow, what a great game.  Fantastic ending segment too.

One thing that I was surprised to find is that I completely loved the Dark Prince stuff.  When I first heard about it I assumed it would be combat focused and something I would just have to grit my teeth to get through.  Imagine my surprise then to find the best platforming bits in the game were Dark Prince levels.  I also like the increased time pressure in the Dark Prince segments that was tense but never frustrating since sand orbs were plentiful.

Also really enjoyed the chariot segments.  Again another area I was worried about when the game was announced but was really pulled off well.  

The story was pretty damn good.  Not "clever" like the first game but I thought they did a good job fleshing out the prince's character and really contrasting it with the character from both SoT and WW.  The changes are really apparent during the Farah/Prince interactions which are a bit different than those of SoT given the different places in their lives we see in TTT.  I also like the story on a whole "meta level" since the dichotemy between the Prince and Dark Prince seemed to be a comment on the tonal differences of SoT and WW.  

Really my only complaints are these:

- Graphically it just isn't up to the standard of the first two games.  Both SoT and WW are two of the best looking games of the generation IMO and  TTT, while looking very good, is just a lot rougher around the edges.  I'm not sure if the budget just didn't match the game's ambition or maybe its the involvement of the new Casablanca studio but something is definitely missing.  

-A couple of frustrating segments.  In particular there was a fairly difficult chariot segment immediately followed by the toughest boss battle in the game that offered no opporutunities to gain Sand Orbs.  Since I started the segments with zero sand they were both much more difficult than they should have been.  

-God of War was released earlier this year.  GoW covers some very similar ground (particularly the Athens segments in GoW) and is a much more polished and impressive product in those areas and kind of dilutes a bit of TTT's impact.  

Oh yeah, the final lines of dialogue of the game:  perfect  thumbsup
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Turtle
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« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2005, 06:41:32 AM »

Yeah, I know that chariot follows by tough boss battle that you speak of.  I only had one orb for the chariot part, I ended up going back one segment earlier, the workshop puzzle where there's no combat to smash things and stock up on orbs.

The thing I'm most curious about, though, is now that TTT has wrapped up the Sands of Time trilogy, what will the next Prince of Persia game be about?  What's going to be the next gimmick that allows the prince to escape death on all those instant death puzzles.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2005, 08:09:53 AM »

Quote from: "Turtle"
The thing I'm most curious about, though, is now that TTT has wrapped up the Sands of Time trilogy, what will the next Prince of Persia game be about?  What's going to be the next gimmick that allows the prince to escape death on all those instant death puzzles.


I think the devs had so no new games are planned at this point so we may get a bit of a break for a little while.  

As for possible future games, there was a possible hint in TTT:

Slight End Spoiler Below
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Kaileena makes a comment about "other worlds need her" or somesuch so perhaps we will get an all new protagonist next time out?
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Turtle
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« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2005, 08:56:29 AM »

Actually, go into the extras now that you've beaten the game.  There's one video that a blooper's reel, pretty funny.  At the end they say they'll see you soon.

Which probably means they've got a next gen PoP game in the works.  The series is too good to not make another, and the next gen systems are a good opportunity to refresh the series yet again.

They also have both endings to Warrior Within in the video extras section.  And, of course, a lot of Sparth's excellent paintings in the illustration section.
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« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2005, 11:52:47 AM »

I bought WW when it first came out, got bored...traded it. But I just picked up WW and TT at the same time I'm not gonna start on the last of the three until I push through WW. The first was easily my favorite game of '03 and I don't feel I would do the trilogy justice without completing them all in order.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2005, 03:39:16 PM »

Quote from: "mad_alien"
I bought WW when it first came out, got bored...traded it. But I just picked up WW and TT at the same time I'm not gonna start on the last of the three until I push through WW. The first was easily my favorite game of '03 and I don't feel I would do the trilogy justice without completing them all in order.


I just finished up WW for the second time and really think its very underrated.  Be aware, though, there is a monstrous game stopping bug that can hit you at the very end.  I managed to miss it the first time through but got nailed this time.  Luckily the second time I was playing the PC version and was able to download a savegame.

Basically to ensure you don't get hit by the bug only save your game in a portal room after you've gone through a time portal but never before it.

And be sure to use a FAQ to get the "real" (and little seen) ending.
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mad_alien
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« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2005, 02:17:00 AM »

Thanks Kevin...another thing...I heard that the xbox version was buggy, I never had problems with it the first time I owned it. This time after picking up a used copy, the controls were kinda sketchy and the game just didn't seem like I remembered, it just wasn't playing smoothly. Anyways, I deleted all of my game saves and my proflie from the hardrive and its running a lot smoother, I know that doesn't make sense but it worked. Ok, as far as saving is that in any portal room or just at the end?
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2005, 04:16:31 AM »

Any portal room but you probably won't know if you've hit the bug until quite literally the very end of the game.  Really sucks.  For more detailed guidance just check out Ubi's support forum for Warrior Within- there are tons of threads on the problem so you can't miss out.  How this didn't get patched (at least in the Xbox and PC versions) I have no idea.
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Turtle
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« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2005, 07:03:13 AM »

By the way, I had several freeze ups on my first generation Xbox1.  Not sure what caused these, but TTT does have some.
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2005, 06:42:07 PM »

I just finished it last night and overall thought the game was pretty good. There are a few flaws that drag it down from 'great' to 'very good', but the game's heart is in the right place and it is much closer in spirit to SoT than WW.

As Kevin mentioned earlier, one of the really nice highlights of the title is a really cool end boss fight. I wish I could say more, but I don't want to spoil it for anybody.

Other highlights include the stealth kill system (although it's a trifle underutilized at the end of the game) and the chariot racing. It goes a long way to keeping the series fresh and addressing some of the complaints about the clunky combat in Warrior Within. Both elements really pay off nicely in this game.

The biggest knock for me was the easy, uninspired platforming segments, though. The environments were way too easy and too many of these segments took place in narrow generic corridors. Before I reached the final boss, I don't think I died at all in the last three hours of the game.

That's my main gripe, and I also think the story is weak and lacked the subtlety that was in SoT. The ending almost makes up for it, but a lot of times during the narration and the conversations between the Prince and his alter-ego felt like I was being told how I should feel about the story. That's always a pet peeve for me.

Overall, I'm glad to see that the developers really rectified some of the mistakes they made with Warrior Within. I'm really interested to see what Ubisoft does with PoP on next-gen consoles, but I also hope they kind of let the series lie fallow for a few years. They need to  come up with a new engine and new gameplay, rather than just creating the same game with next-gen graphics.
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Nth Power
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« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2005, 09:13:10 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"

I just finished up WW for the second time and really think its very underrated.  Be aware, though, there is a monstrous game stopping bug that can hit you at the very end.  I managed to miss it the first time through but got nailed this time.  Luckily the second time I was playing the PC version and was able to download a savegame.

Basically to ensure you don't get hit by the bug only save your game in a portal room after you've gone through a time portal but never before it.

Thanks for that tip Kevin.  I'll try to get to WW after DQ8 (could be a long time!).  Nothing is more frustrating than a game-stopping bug.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2005, 12:57:41 AM »

Quote from: "Andrew Mallon"
The biggest knock for me was the easy, uninspired platforming segments, though. The environments were way too easy and too many of these segments took place in narrow generic corridors. Before I reached the final boss, I don't think I died at all in the last three hours of the game.


I too found the platforming pretty easy but I think its a pretty natural side effect of experience with the series.  Once you  understand the fundamental "rules" of the platforming in the PoP games, which are really much less reliant on timing than conventional platformers, then it really does become rudimentary.  And its not really a knock on the series either since I always prefer a clear and consistent ruleset. It just becomes difficult by the third game to really come up with new situations given the constrainsts of the basic rules.  

That's why I enjoyed the Dark Prince stuff so much- the different moveset and the increased time pressure made it much more interesting than the regular Prince sections.  The decent into the Well was by far my favorite section of the game outside of the finale.  

I've played all three PoP games to completion within the last two weeks and the series really has made some strides in gameplay.  The platforming in Sands of Time is surprisingly basic now compared to a lot of the sections of WW and TTT.  

It reminds me of the stealth genre- I love stealth games but once you play enough of them and learn the "tricks" to each game none of them are really difficult anymore.

I too can't wait to see what next gen has in store but also agree on a little bit of a wait period.  In particular I don't want to see a bastardized current-gen/next-gen PoP game next Christmas like Ubi is doing with Splinter Cell 4.  Course I'd still buy it....
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« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2005, 01:25:47 AM »

I'm currently playing through TTT and I'd say that I've died an incredible number of times.  For some reason, I can't seem to make jumps very well and my reaction time is extremely slow (makes that giant fight quite long).  Anyways, I'm enjoying it although I haven't sworn at my XBox this many times for a while.  I enjoy the Dark Prince parts so far although I'm probably not all that far into the game itself.
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #60 on: December 15, 2005, 04:05:51 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
I too can't wait to see what next gen has in store but also agree on a little bit of a wait period.  In particular I don't want to see a bastardized current-gen/next-gen PoP game next Christmas like Ubi is doing with Splinter Cell 4.  Course I'd still buy it....


I'm the same way. I'd still buy a PoP game even if the graphics were completely unchanged and no new gameplay elements were added. Heck, I even asked for PoP: Revelations for Christmas, even though it's essentially a straight up port of Warrior Within.

You know what would be interesting? A PoP game with a hub world like they did in the Sly Cooper series, with some really dificult optional missions. That seems like a good way to keep the franchise challenging for veterans withouth alienating new players who are just learning the mechanics of the game.
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« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2005, 04:53:43 PM »

Quote from: "Andrew Mallon"
You know what would be interesting? A PoP game with a hub world like they did in the Sly Cooper series, with some really dificult optional missions. That seems like a good way to keep the franchise challenging for veterans withouth alienating new players who are just learning the mechanics of the game.


I thought of that as one of the missed opportunities of TTT.  Not really a hit against TTT since I don't really expect it with current hardware but it would have been great with Babylon much more explorable.  TTT's scenario would make a great setup too since you could still cordon off certain areas or grids with those sand gates so that the explorable area wasn't overwhelming.
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EddieA
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« Reply #62 on: December 15, 2005, 07:56:21 PM »

Personally, I like the focused linearity of the PoP games.  Hub worlds are OK for some games, but they can go horribly wrong, as in Sly 2 and Jak 2.  Both experiences were diluted with frustrating slogs between mission points.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #63 on: December 15, 2005, 08:57:29 PM »

While I recognize potential problems with hubs,  I find it interesting that  Sly 2 and Jak 2 were my favorite games of their respective series.

It's not so much a GTA like experience I'm looking for (the general trend toward GTA alikes is not really the trend I want games to go) but just a general sense of more options.

For example, lets say your immediate goal is to close a Sand Gate like in TTT.  You see the beacon of light several city block equivalents away.  Instead of having a linear experience on how to get there (ie there is a specific set of jumps and climbs that must be made in a specific order), you  have a "hub" with lots of designated climbing points, interactions, etc that can be ultimately be chained together to reach that Gate.  Add in enemy guard patrols that can be directly confronted, avoided entirely, or eliminated via "speed kill" and I think you have something that conforms to core PoP gameplay while broadening the experience and providing a new set of challenges.  

The key to me is that the hub's shouldn't be seen as the "slogs between mission points" but are actually the missions themselves.  That means that the hub design needs to be given a lot of attention.
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EddieA
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« Reply #64 on: December 16, 2005, 03:27:42 AM »

I loved the actual missions in Sly 2 and Jak 2, but I hated getting to them.  I'm enjoying Ratchet 3 much more, simply because you can just pick a planet and go there.  It's not that hubs can't work, but both Sly 2 and Jak 2 did them so horribly, I've really been turned off to the whole idea.  I haven't played Sly 3 or Jak 3 yet, but I'm hoping both are much improved in this area.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #65 on: December 16, 2005, 04:08:25 AM »

It's a discussion for a different topic but I'm of the opinion that the hubs in Sly 2 were brilliantly designed (well, at least levels 4-8) and that the Sly 3 hubs were a significant downgrade.  Their focus is also de-emphasized though so you will likely be much happier.
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« Reply #66 on: December 16, 2005, 05:56:15 AM »

Sort of like Thief 3's city hub?

Er, well I haven't played Thief 3 yet, but I hear it has a nice central city to move through between missions.
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« Reply #67 on: December 16, 2005, 12:05:19 PM »

Quote from: "Turtle"
Sort of like Thief 3's city hub?


Nah, I'm just guessing but I'd expect Thief 3's hub is exactly the type of hub that Eddie doesn't want since most of the time it is busy work between the actual missions.  I like Thief 3's hub a fair amount but it isn't really what I'm thinking of for PoP.  I'm thinking that the hubs are the missions, or at least some of them.  Really the idea is just to imagine the outdoor sections of TTT but with a more freeform level design in those areas.
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« Reply #68 on: December 20, 2005, 06:31:10 PM »

I just got this game and man am I disappointed in the character modelling for the Prince. He looks jaggy and his arms looks like tooth picks. Damn ugly if you ask me. I hope I can look past this to enjoy the game but the inital reaction I had was shocking.  :shock:
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« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2005, 05:28:45 AM »

Grabbed this one for $20 after seeing it on sale for $29.99 and using that Best Buy coupon for $10 off anything $29.99 and over (then used a gift card, so essentially, FREE!) and I seriously cannot stop playing it.  I'm about...an hour after the first chariot race or so.  Wish it had a counter of time saying how much you've played...

I hardly played the first PoP.  Hardly played the second.  This one is quite fun, though.  Truthfully, it isn't that pretty of a game, imo.  I don't really know what it is...animations are sorta meh-ish...weird music...

But I've just been enjoying the hell out of it.  Don't really know WHY.  The dark prince stuff, which I thought would be retarded, is pretty cool.  The combat is alright.  The stealth kill thing is fun (although you guys are right, it really ramps up...keep having to rewind time).  The platforming is fun (with the exception of the camera nearly constantly swinging around to show the DIRECT PATH - LEMME DISCOVER IT ALREADY!).  Hell, even the chariot race was sorta cool.

It's sort of got this God of War-vibe with this constant narrative from that Queen or whatever, and being in the city, then out of the city; but it's not as polished.

I wish it had the fighting mechanics of God of War.  Give this game the graphics of GoW and the fighting mechanics, and you add T2T's platforming and you'd have a damn fine game.
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« Reply #70 on: December 31, 2005, 07:49:33 AM »

Just played about the lamest boss battle ever.  

Game's luster is starting to wear off (and according to a FAQ on GameFAQs, I'm only 25% with the game!).  Making me the dark prince while navigating through traps?  Eek.  Don't rush me!!
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« Reply #71 on: December 31, 2005, 03:26:20 PM »

The Giant boss battle was the only one I didn't like.  I thought the other battles played out well (the 2nd Chariot Race ought to get on your nerves though).
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« Reply #72 on: January 02, 2006, 08:50:55 AM »

Okay, man, like (not love)/hate relationship with this game.  At times, it's somewhat enjoyable.  The combat leaves a little to be desired.  Watching the Prince's hair clip right through his head is a little annoying.

But fuck me sideways running up a hill, I just reached the most retarded puzzle.  I mean, I spent awhile trying to figure it out, I finally gave up.  I look on Gamefaq's and it's a 12-step process!!  Granted, I have every step in front of me now and could really just do it step-by-tedious-step, but I'm not sure I want to continue.  ARGH.  Lame puzzle.

I am about 65% done with the game...so maybe I should finish it.  Whomever designed this puzzle (the statue one) should be slapped silly...
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« Reply #73 on: January 02, 2006, 10:47:11 AM »

TML, read this quick!  Do yourself a favor and while doing that puzzle, smash any miscellaneous objects you see for extra sand tanks, you'll need them for the segment that comes right after the puzzle.

Hopefully this'll save you two very big sessions of hate.
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« Reply #74 on: January 02, 2006, 04:55:08 PM »

Er, I enjoyed that puzzle.

But what Turtle said, max out all of your sand before progressing or you are probably going to drop the game anyway.
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« Reply #75 on: January 02, 2006, 07:37:18 PM »

Extra sand tanks, WILL DO.  Was going to try to finish this sucker today - this is why I love GT  :cry:  TEARS OF JOY, tears of joy.
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« Reply #76 on: January 02, 2006, 07:40:26 PM »

Quote from: "EddieA"
I loved the actual missions in Sly 2 and Jak 2, but I hated getting to them.  I'm enjoying Ratchet 3 much more, simply because you can just pick a planet and go there.  It's not that hubs can't work, but both Sly 2 and Jak 2 did them so horribly, I've really been turned off to the whole idea.  I haven't played Sly 3 or Jak 3 yet, but I'm hoping both are much improved in this area.


I enjoyed both Rachet 2 and Rachet 3 more than Jak 2-3 and Sly 1-2. For me, Rachet is more about just pure fun and shooting action with a tad of platforming than the others, which often seem more hardcore platforming.
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« Reply #77 on: January 03, 2006, 01:12:59 AM »

Well, I DID IT!  Glad I did, that ending sequence was pretty cool.  At least it ended well.  The last couple of hours were enjoyable - I really got a hang of the combat and the areas were quite creative.  An alright game, glad I played it.

Funny outtake video unlocked after completion, too biggrin
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« Reply #78 on: January 03, 2006, 03:06:06 AM »

Glad you enjoyed it.  I obviously like it a lot more than you but I suspect I enjoy the platforming aspects a lot more than you seem to.

I'm honestly a little surprised you beat it- after your earlier comments I thought you might find the Sword and Axe boss fight too frustrating.  Easily the toughest area of the game for me but, then again, I had zero sand tanks for the fight and the chariot race before it.
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