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Author Topic: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones  (Read 6444 times)
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Doopri
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« on: November 27, 2005, 07:06:28 AM »

hey i just saw a commercial for this and its coming out december 1st?  where the hell did this one come from?  any word, any idea what its about etc etc???  am i the only one who had no clue about this?  it looks like an action redux of WW, so maybe its not a bad thing that i hadnt heard... well anything.
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« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2005, 11:13:18 AM »

It's been low key up until now, just a few screenshots, but about a month of two ago they unleashed the real PR to pave way to its release.

It's a blending of the original's puzzle gameplay and WW's combat oriented gameplay.  Basically the prince has been split into two beings, the normal prince from the first game and the Dark Prince from the second.

The normal one has a new set of puzzle solving, evasive, and stealth moves.  The Dark Prince has more combat and assassination moves.  You can switch between the two at certain points, I'm not sure if you can choose which path you take.  It would seem they're trying to appeal to both types of players, so allowing you to choose to stay as either type of Prince would be a good idea, having seperate sections that each Prince could access.

The story has The Prince returning from the isle of time (or something, I didn't play the second one) with his new bride Kayleena (or similar name).  Upon returning to Babylon, there's some sort of uproar regarding The Dark Prince wreaking havoc in the prince's abscence.  The Prince is captured by angry mobs and to save his life Kayleena sacrifices herself and unleashes the sands of time yet again on Babylon.  Somehow the prince and the dark prince meld into eachother or something.

Farah is back, and it looks like she's got a beef with the dark prince, and vice versa.  The Prince obviously still has a thing for her though.

Oh and this time, no rock music, no obscenely clad female warriors (metal thong? ugh!) and more story.
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« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2005, 01:44:16 PM »

This is my number one want at the moment.  Far more than any 360 game out now.   Because of this and the upcoming Black I am considering taking my unopened 360 back and waiting a few months.   Just hope this new PoP is not as buggy as that last one.
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« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2005, 09:56:10 PM »

I'm really looking forward to this. It seems Ubisoft may have learned their lesson from Warrior Within:

-The original voice actor for the Prince returns
-Farrah's back!
-No more heavy metal. It's period-appropriate music
-"Time's bitch" gets killed in the opening cut scene
-The "speed kill" system rewards those who are really good at platforming, rather than combat

I'm really optimistic that this title will live up to the first one.
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2005, 10:11:18 PM »

Quote from: "Andrew Mallon"
I'm really looking forward to this. It seems Ubisoft may have learned their lesson from Warrior Within:

-The original voice actor for the Prince returns
-Farrah's back!
-No more heavy metal. It's period-appropriate music
-"Time's bitch" gets killed in the opening cut scene
-The "speed kill" system rewards those who are really good at platforming, rather than combat

I'm really optimistic that this title will live up to the first one.


Thank God. I have WW still on my shelf with the intent of beating it for the sake of beating it, but I so don't care anymore. Absolutely one of the worst games I've played in a long time, doubly so because it came on the heels of one of the best games I've ever played. Ubi, going back to TSOT formula is a great, great thing. smile
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« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2005, 11:52:00 PM »

I loved the first Sands of Time. Beautiful game although the combat became repetitive at the end.

I didn't play the second one. Should we bother with the 2nd one or just get the 3rd?

Also, is it coming out on 360 too?
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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2005, 12:05:27 AM »

"The original voice actor for the Prince returns"
I'm pretty sure the original actor will voice the Prince, and the actor from WW will voice the Dark Prince.  I'm so glad they're getting rid of the ridiculous music (which would have seemed too extreme even for something like Burnout) and the whole "designed by a horny teenager" theme of WW.
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Doopri
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« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2005, 12:13:41 AM »

scoop i personally found ww terrible BECAUSE of the combat.  its different from the first and its not nearly as fluidy, however if you found combat in the first repetitive ww may be more your cup of tea (it IS a lot more varied, for me it just felt like a chore).  id say rent it because youll know VERY quickly if its for you or not.  like i said, for me, it just made me kinda cry (which was a bad thing) and then want to play the absolutely excellent sot again (which was a very very good thing!).

hope that helps?
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« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2005, 12:23:31 AM »

Doopri, the only problem with the combat in SOT I had was that the same combat move worked over and over again. Run up the guys back and then attack him.

I'd like the enemies force you to vary your attack just a little more. But overall I still loved the original.

I will give WW a rental tho. Good idea.
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2005, 01:15:39 AM »

Quote from: "Doopri"
scoop i personally found ww terrible BECAUSE of the combat.  its different from the first and its not nearly as fluidy, however if you found combat in the first repetitive ww may be more your cup of tea (it IS a lot more varied, for me it just felt like a chore).  id say rent it because youll know VERY quickly if its for you or not.  like i said, for me, it just made me kinda cry (which was a bad thing) and then want to play the absolutely excellent sot again (which was a very very good thing!).

hope that helps?


Exactly. Imagine if someone thought to combine Ninja Gaiden with Prince of Persia, but do a half-ass job of it, and that's the combat from WW. Oh yeah, for added kicks you get to listen to Godsmack while bitching at the controls too.

Ubi, please do not screw up the next one. Thank you for your attention to this matter. smile
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« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2005, 09:46:55 AM »

WW had a very nice premise, where the Prince is running from his own fate.  But they focused too much on the fighting and not enough on the running, at least that's my impression from the demo.

What's this new speed kill system?
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« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2005, 12:30:24 PM »

POP: SOT: A+

POP: WW: A

Once I adjusted to the controls, the game became a hoot.  I love them both.
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greeneggsnham
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« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2005, 01:48:41 PM »

SoT is an absolute classic, but the combat was meh. Great story, though. Awesome.

WW was decent. Slightly better combat, horrible story and plot. Some really awesome platform sequences though, almost worth playing through for that.

WW does have a better final boss (either one) than SoT. That's really my only real beef with SoT.

The problem with WW, IMO, is that it tarnishes the great story set forth in SoT. Some of the gameplay and level design is top notch, though. If you can look at WW on it's own, it's not a bad game.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2005, 07:02:05 PM »

Picked this one up today though I'm not sure if I'll get to it today or not.

Ended up going with the Cube version- my Xbox Thompson drive is failing, I disconnected it to hook up the 360, and I don't think Two Thrones is on the 360 compatability list so I figured Cube was the next best choice.
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Chaz
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2005, 09:56:22 PM »

I just got through the first hour or so.

This is the game Warrior Within should have been.

The feels thus far has been very similar to SoT.  They even brought back the voice-over narration from the point of view of a story teller.

The acrobatics are, at least early on, the main focus.  The new speed kills work very well; easy to perform, cool to watch, trickier to set up.  There's usually the option of fighting straight up, which is definitely doable, or going the extra mile to get in a position to perform a stealth kill.  Needless to say, I usually go for the stealth kill.  smile

The dark prince is a very different beast.  I only had one section featuring him, so this is still early.  As the dark guy, your health slowly falls.  It gets recharged whenever you collect sand, which is usually by killing something, or by breaking crates.  Because of this, you feel quite a bit more rushed and desperate.  Killing something becomes much more important, almost bordering on a feeling of bloodlust.  The sequence is fairly short, and also features some acrobatics, so it's not like they completely divided the combat and jumping parts of the game.

One nice touch is that the "alternate world" sequences that increase your health meter have returned, but this time, they're obstacle courses, which I like a lot better than the original where you just cross the bridge.

I've been very impressed with it so far.  If it keeps up this pace, it may just surpass SoT as my favorite.  My only problem is that since I never finished WW, this one is bringing the flaws in that one right to the surface, and I'm afraid I might never get around to finishing it now.  slywink
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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2005, 10:07:50 PM »

Quote
I've been very impressed with it so far. If it keeps up this pace, it may just surpass SoT as my favorite. My only problem is that since I never finished WW, this one is bringing the flaws in that one right to the surface, and I'm afraid I might never get around to finishing it now.  


Do you have a PSP? Prince of Persia: Revelations is a port of Warrior Within with more content (supposedly some very tough platforming segments). I'm hoping that it fixes a lot of the glitches in Warrior Within and I'd be really happy if they redid the soundtrack for this game.

Supposedly it's coming out soon. Might be a better option if you still want to see the story in Warrior Within.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2005, 10:40:24 PM »

Awesome impressions Chaz.  You really got me wanting to give it a go but I'm contemplating another run through (my third?  fourth?) of Sands of Time first.
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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2005, 10:46:17 PM »

I was playing last night, and I'm totally stuck about an hour in.

**SPOILER***






There's one section where you start out high above a street. You jump to a ledge, then another ledge, then there is a window with a guy looking out. You have to drop to hand grips on the ledge to go across from him without him seeing you.

After killing these two guys, you jump down and kill two more... then you slide down a chute to three guys standing around one of those yellow light beams.

Now, no matter what I do in this section, the enemies just keep coming and coming. I was able to stealth kill two of them, but then immediately another guy spawned out of the yellow beam thing. I must have tried it about 20 times last night, and have killed about 6 guys total before dying at my best.

Is there something I have to do to that beam to make it stop creating guys? I may have missed a hint... or maybe I'm doing something completely wrong.
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« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2005, 11:59:04 PM »

I'm in the same boat of having WW sitting on my shelf and being tempted to get Two Thrones.  I loved the first one, but after hearing bad things about WW, I never played it.   Should I dig into the new one or try to make through WW first?
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2005, 12:08:33 AM »

Quote from: "Nth Power"
I'm in the same boat of having WW sitting on my shelf and being tempted to get Two Thrones.  I loved the first one, but after hearing bad things about WW, I never played it.   Should I dig into the new one or try to make through WW first?


Give WW a try first- with appropriately lowered expectaitons you will probably be surprised to find an excellent game beneath the "edgy" veneer.
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« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2005, 05:06:55 AM »

I was going to say ... I absolutely loved Sands of Time, and think I'll pick it up just so that I have a copy again (never should have sold it), and really look forward to Two Thrones. Nowwww, I'm almost tempted to try Warrior Within, if only for the continuity.

Am I a madman? I know some hate, some respect after a few hours of playing ... all I want is to enjoy the game for what it is, and know what's going on in the third game.
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« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2005, 05:13:38 AM »

Any comments on framerate on Two Thrones.  Some of the videos I've seen have been pretty choppy.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2005, 05:18:04 AM »

8.6 from Gamespot.



Quote from: "GS Review"
The Good: Same great environmental puzzles you loved from the first two games; lengthy, well-paced campaign; speed kills keep the action moving; fun and challenging boss fights; prince lost the baditude.


The Bad: Certain scenes rely too much on trial and error; start of the story may cause confusion.


Sounds great!
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« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2005, 05:25:41 AM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
I was going to say ... I absolutely loved Sands of Time, and think I'll pick it up just so that I have a copy again (never should have sold it), and really look forward to Two Thrones. Nowwww, I'm almost tempted to try Warrior Within, if only for the continuity.

Am I a madman? I know some hate, some respect after a few hours of playing ... all I want is to enjoy the game for what it is, and know what's going on in the third game.

for what it's worth, i didn't really think WW was bad at all.  sure, the attitude was a little lame, but i thought the gameplay was still a lot of fun.  the fighting  in WW is much less monotonous than SoT, there were some good platforming areas, and running from the Dahaka was a good thrill.  if you can get past the scantily clad (and poorly voiced) characters and change in attitude, it's still a precent good game underneat.  at least i thought so...
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« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2005, 06:05:09 AM »

And ... I've heard that WW had its own share of bugs and glitches. I'd be picking up the Cube port of the game - were all versions of the games hit by the same coding flaws, or where the problems only on specific consoles?
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« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2005, 06:30:59 AM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
And ... I've heard that WW had its own share of bugs and glitches. I'd be picking up the Cube port of the game - were all versions of the games hit by the same coding flaws, or where the problems only on specific consoles?

i played WW on the PC and made it through the entire game without a single glitch.  can't speak for other platforms though...
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« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2005, 08:38:07 AM »

One thing I love about the series is the art design in general.  Say what you will about the gameplay, they hired some great artists to make the artwork.

One of my favorite artists, Sparth, did concept and I think texture work for the game.  He has many beautiful concept images on his site, and I'm probably going to pickup the art of warrior within book.

I'm not sure if they hired him back for Two Thrones, but it's possible.
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« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2005, 12:12:36 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
And ... I've heard that WW had its own share of bugs and glitches. I'd be picking up the Cube port of the game - were all versions of the games hit by the same coding flaws, or where the problems only on specific consoles?


The Xbox version is generally considered to be "the buggy one".
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« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2005, 02:20:49 PM »

Can't wait to rent this baby today.  Really looking forward to it.   Everything said so far about it has me encouraged about it.  Just hope it is bug free this time.  As for the graphics of these games, I think they are among the Xbox elite.  In the top 10 as far as I am concerned.
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« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2005, 02:52:51 PM »

I'm looking forward to reviews and some impressions on this, as well. It's my understanding that Jordan Mechner had more creative input on this title, as he did with SoT, so I hope the magic is back with the series in this one.

The gameplay in WW was good, great in places, but the story just felt soulless after SoT. Maybe the great gameplay will be here, but with a better plot.
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« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2005, 03:51:17 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Dafones"
And ... I've heard that WW had its own share of bugs and glitches. I'd be picking up the Cube port of the game - were all versions of the games hit by the same coding flaws, or where the problems only on specific consoles?


The Xbox version is generally considered to be "the buggy one".


See I didn't want to come out and just say that I'd heard the Xbox version was the mucked up one, but it sounds like I wouldn't have been the only one. Good to know.

I hope the Two Thrones has the gameplay that SoT had, and has the sales that WW had.
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« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2005, 03:59:13 PM »

If they have taken out some of the XTREME, I am interested.
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« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2005, 04:09:21 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
I hope the Two Thrones has the gameplay that SoT had, and has the sales that WW had.


Although I can't find the numbers I'm pretty sure that WW didn't sell much better, if at all, than SoT.  Its a common misconception that SoT didn't do well.  It had a very soft first month (which is what prompted the misconception) but really picked up in December and sold over a million across all three platforms IIRC.

Ubi put out some misleading PR last year stating something to the effect of WW got off to a stronger start than SoT.  While technically true that didn't factor that:

a) SoT got off to a soft start, as I mentioned, and steadily gained based off of word of mouth.  WW, on the other hand, got the stronger start characteristic of most sequels and faded faster.

b) The numbers compared WW's first month (December) with SoT's first month (November) and IIRC, SoT's December numbers actually beat WW's.  

If WW had actually sold signficantly stronger then I don't think Ubi would have made so many changes in TTT reverting back to the orginal.
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« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2005, 04:34:29 PM »

I put in a few hours last night and I'm really thrilled with what they've done to the game. The game play in TTT is far and away the best of the series. The platforming elements have been carried over intact and they've added some new moves that really keep it fresh for veterans of the series.  Combat is a little more streamlined and is less of a chore than it was in Warrior Within and just seems more fluid and graceful than the clunky combos in the last game. Far and away, the new speed kill system is the highlight of the game, though.

I really wished they would have named the system something else, because "speed kill" is a total misnomer. It makes it sound reflex based, when really the system is almost more about positioning and navigating the environment than anything else. It's almost like a little mini-platforming challenge within the room.

It basically works like this: you enter a room and there's a guard either standing in a fixed positioning or following a small patrol route. You can attack him straight out, but if you look around the room, you can you usually determine where you need to position yourself to score a stealth kill. Then, the challenge is getting to that position. Usually it means walking a ledge and performing a few jumps to get there. Sometimes you have to be careful to wait until the guard can't see you. Actually executing the kill is almost perfunctory; the real challenge is getting to the point where you can do it.

It’s really satisfying when you string a series of speed kills together. And the best part of it all is that it doesn't break up the flow of the game like combat did in the previous titles. It really is the perfect element to keep the game mechanics fresh.

I want to write some stuff about the art direction, story and music but don't have time at the moment. For now, I'll just say that it's light years better than Warrior Within but not quite as good as Sands of Time.
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« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2005, 04:56:00 PM »

Is there a PC version available?
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« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2005, 05:01:03 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Dafones"
I hope the Two Thrones has the gameplay that SoT had, and has the sales that WW had.


Although I can't find the numbers I'm pretty sure that WW didn't sell much better, if at all, than SoT.  Its a common misconception that SoT didn't do well.  It had a very soft first month (which is what prompted the misconception) but really picked up in December and sold over a million across all three platforms IIRC.

Ubi put out some misleading PR last year stating something to the effect of WW got off to a stronger start than SoT.  While technically true that didn't factor that:

a) SoT got off to a soft start, as I mentioned, and steadily gained based off of word of mouth.  WW, on the other hand, got the stronger start characteristic of most sequels and faded faster.

b) The numbers compared WW's first month (December) with SoT's first month (November) and IIRC, SoT's December numbers actually beat WW's.  

If WW had actually sold signficantly stronger then I don't think Ubi would have made so many changes in TTT reverting back to the orginal.


Huh, I stand corrected. Because I was one of those guys who thought WW was commercially more successful than SoT.
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« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2005, 05:11:22 PM »

Sands of Time stands at number 2 on my list of top xbox games. I still feel Halo was the best.

The story flowed so well and just some of the scenery was so fantasic, add in great music and awesome game.

I am really excited about Two Thrones and want to get it NOW and play it.

My question to those who are playing Two Thrones now.

Are we missing any really imporant plot by skipping Warrior Within and going straight to Two Thrones?
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« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2005, 05:19:00 PM »

As someone who skipped WW, I don't feel like I'm missing much.  I still want to go back and finish WW, but I think I'll get along fine in TTT without it.

A note on the speed kills.  Is anyone finding them ramping up in difficulty very fast?  I'm just past the second dark prince segment, and there's a section where you can go through about eight speed kills in a row, but the window of opportunity for hitting X to continue the kill seems to have gotten incredibly short.  It's to the point where you almost have to anticipate hitting the button, because if you wait for the slowdown and then hit the button, you'll miss your shot.

I only mention it because the enemies hit very hard, and there's no way to regain health short of the fountains.  In the section I'm at, you either hit all the speed kills, or get in a few fights and likely lose a chunk of health.  The problem is that after the speed kill section, they put you in a room with two hellhound type things for the first time, and if you die, you have to repeat the entire section.  Not easy to figure out how to kill the things, and then have to repeat the speed kill section to try again.

Maybe it's just a rhythm thing, but I'm having a heck of a time myself.
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« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2005, 05:46:02 PM »

Thanks Chaz, thats the answer I wanted to hear.
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« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2005, 06:31:18 PM »

Anyone else think this one looks a bit rougher graphically than the prevous two?  The textures and aliasing look a lot worse to me.  Is the a side effect of playing it on Cube (I played the prevoius two on Xbox)?  

Otherwise after about an hour of play agree with all of the comments above- looks to be pretty fantastic and truly worthy sequel of the original.
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