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Question: EQ2 or WOW  (Voting closed: October 12, 2004, 02:53:31 AM)
I'll play whichever comes out first - 7 (7.4%)
EQ2 - 19 (20%)
WOW - 69 (72.6%)
Total Voters: 94

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Morgul
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« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2004, 01:00:57 AM »

I put I will play whichever comes out first.    I have already preordered EQ2, so its a given.   If wow hits the shelves first, then I am there.   If eq2 gets here first, WOW better hope I do not get addicted to it, heh.

I played in the wow stress test and liked it very much.

However, I also watched that EQ2 movie with the dragon turning the group into skeletons that fall to the ground.   How can any serious fantasy based MMORPG gamer not love that movie?  Throw in a follow up to the greatest fantasy based MMORPG of all time?  The screenshots?

Like I said, my wife and I have 2 copies preordered for that sucker, heh.
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« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2004, 02:15:37 AM »

Quote from: "YellowKing"
Having finally played the game for myself, I can assure you that's not the case. I was taking a bit of a risk defending the game as much as I have the past few weeks without having seen it, but tonight I played for about four hours and any fears I had have subsided.
Of course you'd say that.

It's a very simple choice for me.  World of Warcraft will let me try it.  EQ2 won't.  Unless WoW really, really, REALLY sucks, I'm going to be buying that and ignoring EQ2.
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« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2004, 02:29:38 AM »

Quote from: "Misguided"
Sticking with CoH, here.  :wink:

Yeah, CoH still rules.

However, after putting more time into the EQ2 beta, I do have to say that the game is growing on me. I don't know if that's a good thing or not.
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YellowKing
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« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2004, 03:06:19 AM »

Quote
It's a very simple choice for me. World of Warcraft will let me try it. EQ2 won't. Unless WoW really, really, REALLY sucks, I'm going to be buying that and ignoring EQ2.


EQ2 is basically following the same testing pattern they had with the original EQ. The original never had a true open beta, it had a tight NDA, etc. etc. People are acting like EQ2 is doing something secretive and wrong, when in fact it's WoW that is breaking with traditional testing patterns. I'm not saying whether that's good or bad, just saying how it is.

At any rate, I'm going to stop engaging in the battle. Both the games are great. I think it's sad that some people aren't even giving EQ2 a chance because of some deep-seated hatred towards SOE or the original EQ or the NDA or whatever, but oh well. Just leaves more mobs for me to kill.  biggrin
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« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2004, 03:10:55 AM »

Quote from: "YellowKing"
I think it's sad that some people aren't even giving EQ2 a chance because of some deep-seated hatred towards SOE or the original EQ or the NDA or whatever...
It's pretty damn rational to have a deep-seated hatred toward SOE.  Need I mention the software fiasco known as Star Wars Galaxies?  Should I even bother going into how SOE treats their customers like shit?
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« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2004, 03:29:04 AM »

I've yet to meet a company that doesn't treat their customers like shit.

Quote
Star Wars Galaxies?


That was Star Wars Galaxies. Not Everquest or Everquest 2.
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« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2004, 03:37:53 AM »

I havent played WoW or EQ2.  I voted EQ2 but I have my reservations  :?   I'm looking forward to the removal of the NDA so that I can get a clear picture of what it is like.
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« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2004, 06:41:50 AM »

Quote from: "Sparhawk"
That was Star Wars Galaxies. Not Everquest or Everquest 2.
Fair enough:

-SoE has routinely relased buggy, incomplete, broken expansions to Everquest.  (Gates of Discord... yowza, that was maybe the worst).

-Everquest 2 isn't fair game for either side of the argument due to the NDA.

Star Wars Galaxies DOES matter when it comes to looking at SoE's business ethics as a whole.  Banning customers unapologetically if they'd come in contact with duped money?  Teleporting players to fatal, unreachable locations when they meet in protest?  

You can be all anti-establishment and emo-cool like that in saying all companies screw their customers, but look at the facts, bro, and you'll see there's a difference.
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« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2004, 01:36:40 PM »

WoW for sure,bring it on!

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« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2004, 02:24:51 PM »

Quote from: "Sparhawk"
I've yet to meet a company that doesn't treat their customers like shit.

Quote
Star Wars Galaxies?


That was Star Wars Galaxies. Not Everquest or Everquest 2.

You do realize that all these games are being (mis)managed by the same team in the end, right? They're all through SoE.

EQ was just expansion after expansion after expansion. Screw the bugs, the issues, the problems, they just wanted money.

The latest expansion was delayed only after a GIANT uproar by the community, saying that they were simply NOT going to buy another expansion until the original product was fixed.

Why am I still enjoying EQ2 though? Good question. I'm not sure myself. smile
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olaf
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« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2004, 06:31:22 PM »

Yeah you cant blame people for being pissed at SOE.  They screwed plenty of die hard, paying customers over the years be it with EQ or SWG.

As for the NDA...I will concede that Blizzard is the one making waves here and that it is unusual to have a no-NDA beta for 6+ months, but if SOE had any sense AND a competitive product they would have copied them.  They did not.  Why not?

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« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2004, 06:48:17 PM »

I must admit, having never played the beta, I'm afraid of the battle.net kiddies that might run rampant in WoW.  I'm hoping the monthly fee will weed a majority of them out, but as of now that my biggest concern.
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« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2004, 07:22:07 PM »

Man this questions sounds like something that should be addressed in an advice column.
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« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2004, 07:34:07 PM »

Having played the WOW Stress Test... to me, it's WOW all the way. EQ2? Maybe if it gets great reviews and I have some time to kill (which I doubt).  smile
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« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2004, 07:34:36 PM »

Quote
r - the particle system, the voices, the combat, the crafting, the graphics, the sound.


in the past 3 weeks.  graphics, sound, and particles have been inmproved noticeably in WoW.  Blizzard has added voice acknowledgements (NPCs saying "good luck", "thanks") tho nothing of the "claimed" depth that EQ2 has.  i say "claimed" because of the NDA..

crafting /shrug..dunno anything about EQ2 crafting so cantcomment on difference.

I find EQ2 more interesting because of the "promised" features.  I find WoW more reliable believable because i'm playing it...

i'll most likely get WoW first because i expect it to work out of the box.  EQ2 i believe will need 6 months to a year before it will be worthwhile to try...

prolly end up getting both...
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« Reply #55 on: October 14, 2004, 12:19:17 AM »

Im getting both but will probably play Eq2 more.  Im in beta now and played the wow beta as well.  I just like Eq2 better.
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YellowKing
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« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2004, 02:29:15 AM »

Quote
but if SOE had any sense AND a competitive product they would have copied them. They did not. Why not?


That is completely absurd. I could just as easily say that Blizzard should have copied SOE's development plan. There's no reason why WoW's way of development is any better or worse than SOE's. If having a 6+ month lifting of the NDA was the best way of developing games, WoW wouldn't be the only MMO that has done it.

Quote
in the past 3 weeks. graphics, sound, and particles have been inmproved noticeably in WoW. Blizzard has added voice acknowledgements (NPCs saying "good luck", "thanks") tho nothing of the "claimed" depth that EQ2 has. i say "claimed" because of the NDA..


I'm not bound by any NDA, (and this is common knowledge anyway from sanctioned previews), but the full voice implementation does exist and it is VERY well done.
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olaf
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« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2004, 03:06:42 AM »

Quote from: "YellowKing"
Quote
but if SOE had any sense AND a competitive product they would have copied them. They did not. Why not?


That is completely absurd. I could just as easily say that Blizzard should have copied SOE's development plan. There's no reason why WoW's way of development is any better or worse than SOE's. If having a 6+ month lifting of the NDA was the best way of developing games, WoW wouldn't be the only MMO that has done it.

You misunderstood me.  I was commenting on the marketing value of the beta.  Its very clear, just look at the results of this poll, that the WoW beta 'style' generated a lot more positive buzz than the EQ2 beta has.  As for which beta process will result in a better game...I think that is impossible to know at this point.  It could very well be that SOE has done a better job.  Given their track record though, I would bet against them.

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« Reply #58 on: October 14, 2004, 03:26:58 AM »

Quote from: "YellowKing"
There's no reason why WoW's way of development is any better or worse than SOE's.
Actually, I can think of two ways:

-No NDA for awhile now.
-Several Open Betas, one all-out Open Beta coming soon.

Objectively, those two things are better, more honest methods of development than SoE's model.  There's nothing to argue about.  Blizzard is being kinder to their potential customers than SoE is.
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« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2004, 03:56:43 AM »

Quote from: "olaf"
As for the NDA...I will concede that Blizzard is the one making waves here and that it is unusual to have a no-NDA beta for 6+ months, but if SOE had any sense AND a competitive product they would have copied them.  They did not.  Why not?

Good question. SoE is copying other things *cough*griffins*cough*, so why not the open-ended beta model?

To put things very bluntly - EQ2 is taking a lot of the issues that the original game had and fixing them. On the flip side, some say that they're going too far.

Take a look at http://www.eq2players.com (open site - everybody can look around, but you can't access the beta specific forums without a user/pass), and take a look around. Sony is pretty open about a lot of things on their site.
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« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2004, 04:21:06 AM »

Voted WoW here. I'm gonna pick this game up sometime in December, monthly fees be damned.
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« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2004, 10:55:09 AM »

Voted EQ2...I had a chance to try it out...system was a p4 3.0ghz 1gb ram, ati radeon 9800 xt 256mb, ran the game at 1600x1200, high detail, no lag.  I just don't see this performance issue... I do know that just recently some optimizations were made, that could have something to do with it... I also have heard the qeynos area is laggier than freeport.

WoW was fun, but didn't suck me, I didn't feel immersed in a world.  EQ2 I feel like I am part of it, the voice overs I love.  If only I could play for real instead of watching someone else play.
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YellowKing
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« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2004, 12:31:44 PM »

Quote
Several Open Betas, one all-out Open Beta coming soon.


I'm not real sure what you mean by "several open betas." WoW has had several public closed betas so far.....but so has EQ2. EQ2 had a corporate-wide beta with a friends & family program, then they allowed all EQ Legends subscribers in, then they allowed all Lords of Everquest pre-order people in, then they allowed several thousand PC gamer contest beta slots in. They're running promotions all this week for even more beta slots - GameSpot is giving away 1,000 slots, and numerous other fan sites are giving away anywhere from 10-30 slots away each week for the next three weeks.

It's simply not true that EQ2 has had some kind of tightly limited, small beta program. And the NDA is not nearly as tight as people are making it out to be. There is plenty of information out there if you take the time to read it.
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« Reply #63 on: October 14, 2004, 12:38:30 PM »

EQ2 NDA applies to all information past 20th level, which is basically everything. No one gives a crap about the stupid newbie island. People want to know about subclasses, and that info is still a no no.

In the mean time, WOW open beta should start sometime next week.
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« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2004, 12:47:49 PM »

I'll be playing WoW the game is very fun and zero down time. God I hated waiting to heal or regen mana in EQ or not being able to solo. So far I've seen in WoW all classes seem to be able to solo. But I do hope those of you playing EQ2 enjoy it.

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« Reply #65 on: October 14, 2004, 01:08:14 PM »

Quote from: "Ascendent"
I'll be playing WoW the game is very fun and zero down time. God I hated waiting to heal or regen mana in EQ or not being able to solo. So far I've seen in WoW all classes seem to be able to solo. But I do hope those of you playing EQ2 enjoy it.

The regen times have been drastically reduced in EQ2 (due to another copied feature - eating food/drink), and soloing isn't too much of an issue that I've seen so far.
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YellowKing
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« Reply #66 on: October 14, 2004, 01:46:22 PM »

I think some of the claims of EQ2 "copying" from WoW are also instances in which both EQ2 and WoW drew from the same well of previous MMO features, so to speak.

For instance, travel from point A to point B via some kind of non-controllable mount is not a new idea. Dark Age of Camelot did it. Griffins have been in EQ1 since it launched in 1999. The idea of using them as one of the non-controllable mounts doesn't take a huge leap of imagination.

Using food to help regen is also not a new idea. To give one recent example, look at Horizons which used food to reduce death penalty time and provide other effects. EQ1 had food and water at launch. It was not used specifically in the same way, but given that it was part of the core game it's again not inconceivable that SOE would update this feature.

I'm not naive enough to believe SOE hasn't been spying on Blizzard and vice-versa. I'm sure there is plenty of copying going on in both directions. But let's not kid ourselves. The minor features SOE is "copying" from WoW are nothing innovative and new to the MMO genre, and you could easily make the argument that both companies copied them from even older games.
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« Reply #67 on: October 14, 2004, 04:25:06 PM »

Quote from: "YellowKing"
EQ2 had a corporate-wide beta with a friends & family program

Oh wow, how inclusive.   :roll:

Quote
...then they allowed all EQ Legends subscribers in...

Frankly if I were paying $50 a month to play in the Champagne Room of Everquest, I'd be pretty pissed if I didn't get a beta spot on EQ2.


Quote
...then they allowed all Lords of Everquest pre-order people in...
 Again, if I'd paid $50 for that wet turd, I'd want something worthwhile too.

Quote
...then they allowed several thousand PC gamer contest beta slots in.
 Wow, finally a source for a beta slot that didn't include paying a $50 Sony asskisser fee.

Quote
They're running promotions all this week for even more beta slots - GameSpot is giving away 1,000 slots...

Actually, to enter that contest, you have to be a Gamespot Complete member, which means you have to be pretty brainwashed and frivilous with your credit card to begin with.  And even then, you're not guarenteed a spot... well, I take that back.  I find it hard to believe Gamespot Complete would have anywhere close to 1000 members.  So maybe you are guarenteed a spot.
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YellowKing
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« Reply #68 on: October 14, 2004, 05:04:37 PM »

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Oh wow, how inclusive.  


Yeah, just like the identical program that Blizzard had. Though I didn't see you rolling your eyes at that one.

Quote
Actually, to enter that contest, you have to be a Gamespot Complete member, which means you have to be pretty brainwashed and frivilous with your credit card to begin with.


I'm a GameSpot complete member, and proud of it. People pay $25 a year for 12 issues of an out-of-date computer magazine. I don't see anything wrong with paying $25 a year for updated daily content including video, exclusives, and opportunities like this to get into big betas.

WoW's beta in the end will be more expansive. But to this point it has NOT been any more "open" than EQ2's, aside from that week-long stress test. The Legends and LOE slots are only a tiny fraction of the total beta population; the vast majority come from beta applicants (just like WoW, surprise surprise).
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« Reply #69 on: October 14, 2004, 05:12:48 PM »

EVERYBODY SHUT UP!

 :o
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« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2004, 05:14:27 PM »

WoW no question.

1. I'm a Blizzard fan since Warcraft 1, they've never made a game that I haven't had tons of fun playing and I don't expect that to change.

2. I played the Stress Test and loved it.

3. I had a chance to try EQ1 a few years back and it turned me off after 15 minutes.

4. Star Wars Galaxies.

5. There's no information on EQ2 that's getting me excited about it.

6.  OMG i am teh m3g@ WoW bLiZuRd f@nboi!!111 ONE 1! ONE ROFLBBQPWNKTHX
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« Reply #71 on: October 14, 2004, 05:16:27 PM »

This reminds me of five years ago when everyone was in the UO or EQ and to a lesser extent AC camps on which game was better.  

Both of these games are going to be huge.  I guess since I plan on trying both (though admittedly I'm much more interested in EQ2),  I don't get the stark contrasts people are trying to paint between the two.  

I seriously doubt that either game is going to suck.
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« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2004, 05:32:54 PM »

Quote from: "Redfive"
 I seriously doubt that either game is going to suck.
As do I.  They'll likely both be fantastic.

I won't be touching EQ2 til it gives me a free trial, though.
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« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2004, 05:35:24 PM »

Quote from: "YellowKing"
Yeah, just like the identical program that Blizzard had. Though I didn't see you rolling your eyes at that one.
My point was, why even bother mentioning that?  It's like saying the developers get to play the game... um, duh.

At least if you were a Fileplanet member you were guarenteed a spot in the stress test.  And the biggest point:  WoW is about to have an all-inclusive, no-strings-attached 'beta.'  On the other hand, you'll have to pay $50 to try EQ2... just like every other phase of the beta.
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« Reply #74 on: October 14, 2004, 06:52:20 PM »

Quote
EVERYBODY SHUT UP!


Awwww. come on. Arguing is fun. Gives us something to do until the games come out.  biggrin
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« Reply #75 on: October 14, 2004, 07:06:05 PM »

I vote for playing and enjoying both. Can I do that or do I have to pick one and exclude the other?

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« Reply #76 on: October 14, 2004, 09:07:15 PM »

I'm going to give WoW a shot. It'll be the first MMO I've ever played. The horror stories about customer service have completely turned me off of EQ2. Even if they hadn't, there's no reason I would've tried EQ2 anyway. I'm trying WoW because I had fun with Diablo, it's a fun game, so maybe WoW can recreate some of that magic.
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« Reply #77 on: October 14, 2004, 09:49:54 PM »

Quote from: "YellowKing"

WoW's beta in the end will be more expansive. But to this point it has NOT been any more "open" than EQ2's, aside from that week-long stress test. The Legends and LOE slots are only a tiny fraction of the total beta population; the vast majority come from beta applicants (just like WoW, surprise surprise).

lol come on.  Its got no NDA, and hasnt had one since March (or earlier?).  Doesnt that make it more open than EQ2's beta?  It does in my eyes.  As for who and how many were invited, to either, you and I have no way of knowing the real numbers.

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« Reply #78 on: October 15, 2004, 04:48:36 AM »

WOW still leads by a huge margin. This surprise me, since EQ is the established product, but I also think the EQ2 NDA is counter productive.

The only advantage that EQ2 seems to have is more classes, but most of those are simply good/evil versions of the same class.

The grind is still there, along with item decay and a group exp penalty for death. SOW has been nerfed, and SOE's hinting that travel in EQ2 will be closer to Kunark era than POP, which is certainly going to cause some groaning. I hear plenty of specific details on changes I don't like, but the NDA restricts positive information from being released.

It looks like EQ2 is simply EQ1, with all the things the devs hated being removed.
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« Reply #79 on: October 15, 2004, 11:11:46 AM »

Hows the death handled in EQ2? anyone? Because I love the death system in WoW. Thanks for not punishing me for dieing.

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