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Author Topic: Picked up PoP: Warrior Within ...  (Read 1543 times)
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Dafones
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« on: May 29, 2006, 08:09:28 PM »

... and I'm quite enjoying it. Sands of Time was - if not the best - one of the top three games I played this generation. I like the gameplay. I like the setup. And though it's not as good, truthfully not nearly as good, Warrior Within is still a, well, I'll say solid title.

I will say right off the bat that the Middle Eastern infused metal soundtrack is shitty. It still gets on my nerves, and I don't think it was necessary to make the game "darker". But I can live through it. Also, the "attitude" is overkill, and comes across not as mature, but as childish. Oh sweet irony. What is it that those slut assassins say? "Pain feels so good," or something equally as stupid?

That's not to say that I don't like the darker tone. I actually dig the setup, this doomed - and selfish? - warrior that is fighting fate itself. Don't know how it will play out, but I like the tone and the atmosphere. In fact, other than his angry growls, I actually like the voice actor of the Prince more in WW than PoP, but then I did have a hard time with the soft spoken, pseudo-British accented Prince in the first game.

The combat is better than Sands, but still not perfect, and I've just come off of God of War, so the game does feel quite inferior. (And looks and controls inferior, as well.) Thankfully I'm in it more for the platforming, which is where the title shines. The game's got that "just one more save point" feel to it, and I like it. Haven't found the difficulty to hard (on Normal), though there have been some close fights. But that's what makes those fights so good. And if I remember correctly, many people found the g-string bandit (the girl in black) to be heinously tough, so the fact that I didn't really have any trouble with her bodes well. (Though her head seemed to disappear in the second fight with her. Kind of weirded me out a bit.)

And I love what the game has done with the save system - combine the water with the save point! Brilliant! All you have to do is get to the end of the section, and you know you're golden. I remember a few save points in SoT not having any water nearby, which pissed me off big time. And now the sand itself is more abundant, coming from enemies and pots, which I like as well. (Kind of reminds me of Zelda, but that's okay.)

The only thing I'm worried about is that game-stopping bug. I've got the Cube version, which I believe is the most stable port. Anyone out there have problems with the game on the Cube?

So yeah, I'm not sure if it was a select few, but man did WW seem to bring the venom out in people. So far, I'm glad I listened to those that said it was a good game. And Two Thrones is waiting after I finish Warrior Within! Man, catching up on older games rules.
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2006, 08:16:28 PM »

Yep. Despite the crap soundtrack and art design, Warrior Within has some of the best platforming and environmental puzzles in the series. It's too bad that the first three or four hours of the game were so off-putting to most people that they never got to the good stuff. The clock tower level is particularly good.
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EddieA
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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2006, 08:51:44 PM »

Most of the "attitude" and silly "mature" themes fade after the first few hours.  I'm about halfway through, and it does play better than SoT, with better combat and platforming.  It seems pretty soulless at this point, though.  SoT was a great combination of atmosphere and gameplay, whereas WW has great gameplay and that's it.  It's still fun to play, though, and I intend to finish it.
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Dafones
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2006, 09:34:50 PM »

I'm with you on that one. Yeah, that's exactly right. Warrior Within is kind of soulless. There was something captivating about Sands of Time, something magical (besides the magic), an energy, a style, a feel, a - how do the French say it? - eh, I don't know. And Warrior Within seems to be lacking it. I'm indifferent to the world, but still enjoying the game for the gameplay. Right from the get go, I couldn't have cared less about my ship, my shipmates, whatever. Didn't care that my ships had been destroyed. Don't really care for the Prince, but I know that I could have if the style had been handled right. I think I cared more when the sands were unleashed in Sands of Time.

Yeah, it's something that goes beyond level design and textures and lighting and character design and gameplay mechanics. Hell, maybe it's what elevates some video games into the realm of true art.
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ATB
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2006, 09:35:10 PM »

Two thrones is even better...
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2006, 10:22:05 PM »

I agree with Edidie about Warrior Within being soulless. Warrior Within is great for fans of the platforming genre, as some of its envrionments are put together well. Warrior Within is a good game. Sands of Time is on a higher plane altogether.

I think Two Thrones is the weakest of the three entries. The stealth kill system is good at first, but its not very sophisticated and gets repetitve fast.  Everything else about the game is incredibly bland. They copied the combat system from Wariior Within and tried to replicate the feel of the first game and succeeded at neither.
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2006, 10:24:37 PM »

In the words of Penny Arcade, "I smoulder with generic rage."

That about sums up the game.

They made the game dark for the sake of goth and punk kids.

Sure, the material they're dealing with is dark, but instead of simply letting the subject matter and characters portray how dark the Prince's world has become, they tried to ham it up.

The two thrones is a much better game in this regard.  But the damage was done in WW, so it still doesn't live up to SoT.

I'm very eager to see what they do for the next Prince of Persia series.
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2006, 10:33:17 PM »

My thoughts on WW are well known and for the sake of brevity I will only say that I hate every second of that game. Though I will admit the Clock Tower sequence was some fine platforming, but if that was all I wanted then I'd have played the Ratchet & Clank series. Sands of Time was a wonderous adventure, romantic, playful, and dangerous all at the same time. The Two Thrones actually recaptured a lot of the magic undone by the middle installment, so I refer to the PoP series as the gaming equivalent of the Indiana Jones series.

Raiders was the pinnacle, Temple was at the bottom, and Crusade was somewhere in the middle.
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Dafones
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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2006, 12:04:01 AM »

Quote from: "Andrew Mallon"
I think Two Thrones is the weakest of the three entries.


I kind of want you to be wrong on this one. And actually, Two Thrones must have rubbed you the wrong way, because from what I've read, most reviewers and gamers found the third game to be an improvement over the second. I would have jumped right into the third one if I didn't think I was missing some decent gaming and part of the story.

And I'd totally forgotten that Warrior Within was the game that brought up the "I smoulder with generic rage." I loved that strip.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2006, 12:27:15 AM »

While I agree that Warrior Within is underrated, I think TTT actually makes it a better game since on one level Two Thrones seems to be a sort of meta-critique of Warrior Within.  I think TTT is the best of the series from a pure gameplay standpoint, but I would put it slightly behind SoT as an overall experience because SoT really excelled so much in terms of atmosphere, presentation, and story.
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2006, 02:37:04 AM »

Quote
I would have jumped right into the third one if I didn't think I was missing some decent gaming and part of the story.


That's what I thought, so I played Warrior Within from start to finish.

I don't think it's considered a spoiler if I tell you that the beginning of The Two Thrones actually dares to pretend that Warrior Within ended in a completely different way.  I would have thought that a planned trilogy specializing in the intricacies of time travel would have a little more respect for whopping continuity flaws than that.

I loved the original Prince of Persia for its beautiful Arabian fairy tale setting, its gorgeous animation, its engaging storyline, and its daring acrobatic gameplay.  I disliked Warrior Within because it attempted to reboot the franchise into something X-treme and frequently interrupted the acrobatic puzzle-solving with battles which were about as engaging as fighting the innumerable random monster encounters in a Japanese RPG.  My initial impressions of Two Thrones were very positive, but I stopped playing after only a few hours because I had *just* completed PoP:WW and was worried about ruining the game by burning myself out the franchise.

My advice: you should definitely continue with Warrior Within for as long as you're having fun with it.  Hopefully that'll carry you through the entire game.  However, if you reach the point where you're just slogging your way through because you want to see how it ends, I think you'll discover that it *really* doesn't matter.

-Autistic Angel
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2006, 02:47:23 AM »

Quote from: "Autistic Angel"
I don't think it's considered a spoiler if I tell you that the beginning of The Two Thrones actually dares to pretend that Warrior Within ended in a completely different way.  I would have thought that a planned trilogy specializing in the intricacies of time travel would have a little more respect for whopping continuity flaws than that.


Actually, TTT assumes that you got the relatively rare, *good* ending for Warrior Within.  Most gamers got the "bad" ending.
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2006, 03:12:59 AM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Autistic Angel"
I don't think it's considered a spoiler if I tell you that the beginning of The Two Thrones actually dares to pretend that Warrior Within ended in a completely different way.  I would have thought that a planned trilogy specializing in the intricacies of time travel would have a little more respect for whopping continuity flaws than that.


Actually, TTT assumes that you got the relatively rare, *good* ending for Warrior Within.  Most gamers got the "bad" ending.


Which is because most gamers didn't get every single life upgrade the result being the chance to wield the water sword, whatever the hell that is. Go into the final battle with that and you get the "good" ending.

Or you can save a lot of time and effort and skip WW altogether going straight into TTT. It cuts to the chase, gives you a quick recap at the beginning, and you're set. Play Sands of Time, ignore WW, and play TTT for all your Prince of Persia needs. You can even check out my TTT review right here. biggrin
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Dafones
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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2006, 04:07:06 AM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
Which is because most gamers didn't get every single life upgrade the result being the chance to wield the water sword, whatever the hell that is. Go into the final battle with that and you get the "good" ending.


I hate shit like that - especially if the endings create different continuity. Oh well, I'll just keep playing the game because its fun, and hopefully it won't wind up pissing me off or tossing in a killer bug that doesn't allow me to complete the game.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2006, 04:53:38 AM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
I hate shit like that - especially if the endings create different continuity. Oh well, I'll just keep playing the game because its fun, and hopefully it won't wind up pissing me off or tossing in a killer bug that doesn't allow me to complete the game.


Funny you mention that- there is a relatively common games stopping bug.  Unfortunately it can be triggered very early and you won't discover it until you are almost at the final boss fight.  I didn't encounter it my first time through (Xbox version) but I did get it the second time which happened to be with the PC version so I just downloaded a fixed save.
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« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2006, 06:29:54 AM »

Actually, The Two Thrones deals with such diverging continuity by assuming you had the good ending, and explaining away the bad one.

They also include both endings from WW as easily unlocked extras.
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ATB
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« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2006, 01:27:18 PM »

I loved the series.

SoT is an all time great. No question

Warrior Within, because again I guess I'm not a super stickler about everything, was a fun a game and I still rate it as an A.

Two Thrones with the dark prince dynamic was a great capstone to the series and I enjoyed it quite a bit....though it did have my first controller breaking moment in history and I was a bit let down by the ending.

Anyhew, i thin it's well worth your time to play through both.  Skipping the middle one would be a mistake, IMO.
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Dafones
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« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2006, 02:57:07 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Dafones"
I hate shit like that - especially if the endings create different continuity. Oh well, I'll just keep playing the game because its fun, and hopefully it won't wind up pissing me off or tossing in a killer bug that doesn't allow me to complete the game.


Funny you mention that- there is a relatively common games stopping bug.  Unfortunately it can be triggered very early and you won't discover it until you are almost at the final boss fight.  I didn't encounter it my first time through (Xbox version) but I did get it the second time which happened to be with the PC version so I just downloaded a fixed save.


Yeah, I'm aware of the bug, and I'm terrified of it. Got any details about it, without spoiling things? Any way to know if you've sneaked past it or not? For what it's worth, I just grabbed the sword that works as a lever key
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« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2006, 03:24:31 PM »

Quote from: "ATB"
Two Thrones with the dark prince dynamic was a great capstone to the series and I enjoyed it quite a bit....though it did have my first controller breaking moment in history and I was a bit let down by the ending.


See I loved the ending of TTT because it brought the saga full circle in an elegant way. The second the Prince started speaking as the final shot zoomed out over the city I laughed with sheer joy at what he was saying. Also, it stunned me how well his character changed over the course of the game. When he started out he was still the Dark Prince from WW which was to be expected. It pissed me off because I hated that but it made sense in terms of continuity.

What got me though was how the fun-loving adventurous Prince of the first game started poking through at odd moments. As soon as *spoiler* showed up, the Prince essentially started to become his former self again and by the endgame he'd found a good middle ground between who he was and what he'd become. That, my friends, is excellent character development and something rarely found in games these days. I loved it.
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« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2006, 04:43:41 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
Yeah, I'm aware of the bug, and I'm terrified of it. Got any details about it, without spoiling things? Any way to know if you've sneaked past it or not? For what it's worth, I just grabbed the sword that works as a lever key


IIRC, it's triggered by drinking water and/or saving before you go through a portal.  Unfortunately, I don't think there is any way to tell until just the very end of the game.
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2006, 05:14:53 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Autistic Angel"
I don't think it's considered a spoiler if I tell you that the beginning of The Two Thrones actually dares to pretend that Warrior Within ended in a completely different way. I would have thought that a planned trilogy specializing in the intricacies of time travel would have a little more respect for whopping continuity flaws than that.

 
Actually, TTT assumes that you got the relatively rare, *good* ending for Warrior Within. Most gamers got the "bad" ending.


Fair enough: I didn't realize there was an alternate ending to Warrior Within, so the opening narration to Two Thrones was quite a surprise.  I'm happy to hear that I was the lazy one, not the developers.  Cool

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2006, 05:41:32 PM »

Yeah i read about the other ending here I think.

I never bothered to get it.  Too much work...
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Dafones
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« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2006, 06:42:37 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Dafones"
Yeah, I'm aware of the bug, and I'm terrified of it. Got any details about it, without spoiling things? Any way to know if you've sneaked past it or not? For what it's worth, I just grabbed the sword that works as a lever key


IIRC, it's triggered by drinking water and/or saving before you go through a portal.  Unfortunately, I don't think there is any way to tell until just the very end of the game.


Greeeeeeat. That's what I've been doing before every one of those time portals. Is it a sure thing, or are the odds that you won't hit the bug pretty good?
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« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2006, 06:49:48 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Dafones"
Yeah, I'm aware of the bug, and I'm terrified of it. Got any details about it, without spoiling things? Any way to know if you've sneaked past it or not? For what it's worth, I just grabbed the sword that works as a lever key


IIRC, it's triggered by drinking water and/or saving before you go through a portal.  Unfortunately, I don't think there is any way to tell until just the very end of the game.


Greeeeeeat. That's what I've been doing before every one of those time portals. Is it a sure thing, or are the odds that you won't hit the bug pretty good?


I pretty much did that as well and never hit the bug...was the bug ps2 or xbox? i played on xbox.
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2006, 06:53:13 PM »

As far as I can recall, I also saved before and after just about every time portal in the game and I still finished it successfully.  I played the X-Box version.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2006, 07:17:50 PM »

The bug affects all versions of the game but, as far as I know, it isn't a sure thing whether you will trigger it even if you technically perform all of the steps.  Here is Ubi's official recommendation, taken from their forums:

Quote
Response (Uk technical support) - 12/15/2004 12:15 PM
Hi Grass,
we are aware of this problem and as far as we are aware the situation can be avoided by the following
1- Only ever save the game AFTER going through a time portal and not before
2- Make double sure all the buttons are depressed next to the time portals even if the portal is active.
3- Never save the game while there is dialogue being recieved.
If you are stuck at the end portal, you should reload your most recent save in the past, and play through following these guidlines. I hope this works for you. let us know if it does not. Merry Christmas.
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Dafones
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« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2006, 01:19:38 AM »

Well, from here on out, I'll only be saving after the portals. (It's nice to know that there always will be a save after them.) Fingers crossed ...
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« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2006, 11:03:21 PM »

Damn you all.

I've been on the fence about picking up the 2nd and 3rd games for a while, after hearing all the WW bashing.

Guess I'll have to give in eventually, as SoT really was a standout game for me on the Xbox.
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« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2006, 08:41:12 PM »

I loved SOT and held off on getting WW because I had heard bad things about it.  Finally picked it up a few months ago used and was enjoying it quite a bit.  It had a lot of good platforming and lacked the repetitive battles that I didn't like in the first one.

Then I started getting annoyed at getting killed a lot (I never once came across a life upgrade, maybe because I wasn't looking for them, maybe because I'm a crappy gamer, but they were much easier to come by in SOT), and then after the 5th or 6th Dahaka chase I just had enough.  I watched the rest of the game on stuckgamer.

I'd still like to pick up TT at some point though.
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