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Author Topic: PC World's Top 10 PC Games of All Time  (Read 2700 times)
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Blackadar
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« on: February 18, 2009, 05:23:14 PM »

I saw this on MSN and after some reflection...I'd have to say they got it right.

10.  Trade Wars 2002
09.  Myst
08.  The Sims
07.  Starcraft
06.  Rogue
05.  M.U.L.E
04.  SimCity
03.  Civilization
02.  Doom
01.  World of Warcraft

At first glance, I scoffed at the list.  Where was X-Com?  Quake?  Half-Life?  MS Flight Simulator?  Zork?  But then I thought about it...and I think he got it right.  These games really are the gold standard in PC gaming.  The only thing I can think of to swap out would be Ultima for Rogue...and even then, it's close.
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2009, 05:29:48 PM »

X-Com must be on any real top 10 list.  Gimme a break.
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2009, 05:43:51 PM »

Quote from: kratz on February 18, 2009, 05:29:48 PM

X-Com must be on any real top 10 list.  Gimme a break.

Hey, it's one of my favorites too...but unfortunately it's going to be overshadowed by other games and it didn't spawn any kind of evolution in the industry. 
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2009, 06:17:24 PM »

And what evolution did Wow spawn?  There were successful MMORPG's well before it.  Just becuase it's the current top dog is in no way certification of the 'greatest game of all time' category.
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2009, 06:38:29 PM »

Trade Wars 2002... yeah... that beats X-Com...  Roll Eyes

Bael
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Blackadar
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2009, 06:43:33 PM »

On Wow - It's become the Gold Standard of MMOs.  The previous mark was 1,000,000 players.  WoW has 11x that many.  It's been featured on TV shows.  It's probably sucked more time away from its player base than any other game in history.  Hell, it even has it's own set of memorable commercials.  It's arguably the most popular and easily the most profitable PC game of all time.  It's not just "top dog".  WoW IS the genre - there's WoW, and there's everything else.  Like it or not, it belongs on any list.

On Trade Wars - Considering much of the board never played this game, I'm not surprised to see it scorned.  I played it on a VT320 terminal back around 1990.  It was a fantastic game - imagine a multiplayer version of Space Rangers 2.  smile  I might have gone for X-Com over Trade Wars, but it has to be in the running for consideration.
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2009, 07:09:41 PM »

Interesting. The only 2 games on that list that I would have is Myst and Civ. Starcraft I never got to play as I was still all Mac then. Trade wars I have never even heard of and Doom is just so over rated imho. But that's what's so cool about gaming. So many different kinds out there.
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2009, 07:16:05 PM »

Count me in as another person disappointed that X-Com didn't make it onto that list.  Its absence casts a shadow of doubt on the list's veracity, IMHO.   icon_wink
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2009, 10:25:37 PM »

Quote from: kratz on February 18, 2009, 05:29:48 PM

X-Com must be on any real top 10 list.  Gimme a break.

Word, I'm not bitching about the ranking or anything. But come on.
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2009, 11:07:16 PM »

I wouldn't put any of those games on my list except DOOM where it is and World of Warcraft but maybe put it at number 9 or 10.
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2009, 12:24:44 AM »

No JA2 automatically disqualifies not only this list but the maker of any future list making. He should simply be barred from touching a keyboard after this error.

Seriously though. I agree about Tradewars, wtf is that? How could an unknown game beat genre defining games like Warcraft2, C&C and Diablo? One could also argue that Doom2 is better than Doom1, Doom2 was the first multiplayer hit after all. XCOM and MOO1 also belongs on any toplist of this kind. Maybe this guy hates strategy and rpg? None of the Ultima games made a top 10 list for instance.

Also. Myst and Sims? This must be the ultra mainstream gamer choice. Or simply the most played game list? Can't really see the red thread here. Even as MMO.s goes WOW might have most players but it didn't define the genre, UO did and many consider UO to be the best MMO ever, that includes many WOW players.

Ok, found out that TW2002 was a BBS game back in the days, never played any of those. I can't see a game like that competing with the ones I mentioned. Does it even classify as a PC game?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 12:35:40 AM by marcusjm » Logged

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Blackadar
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2009, 01:30:44 AM »

Quote from: marcusjm on February 19, 2009, 12:24:44 AM

No JA2 automatically disqualifies not only this list but the maker of any future list making. He should simply be barred from touching a keyboard after this error.

Seriously though. I agree about Tradewars, wtf is that? How could an unknown game beat genre defining games like Warcraft2, C&C and Diablo? One could also argue that Doom2 is better than Doom1, Doom2 was the first multiplayer hit after all. XCOM and MOO1 also belongs on any toplist of this kind. Maybe this guy hates strategy and rpg? None of the Ultima games made a top 10 list for instance.

Also. Myst and Sims? This must be the ultra mainstream gamer choice. Or simply the most played game list? Can't really see the red thread here. Even as MMO.s goes WOW might have most players but it didn't define the genre, UO did and many consider UO to be the best MMO ever, that includes many WOW players.

Ok, found out that TW2002 was a BBS game back in the days, never played any of those. I can't see a game like that competing with the ones I mentioned. Does it even classify as a PC game?

It does.  You'd probably have to be 35+ to remember it and what a huge hit it was.
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2009, 06:24:44 AM »

WoW being in the number 1 spot automatically discredits any top 10 PC game lists IMO. I don't care how you argue it, WoW just isn't a game that set a standard since most of what's worthwhile in it was done in other MMORPGs before it. As well, for a RPG it has about as much depth as a wading pool. I can live with most other choices, but there's no way I'd include The Sims or Simcity in a list over X-Com, the best source engine games (Halflife 1 and 2) or the best dark engine games (System Shock II or Thief). In fact that list is quite suspect IMO due to the disproportionate number of strategy games. I mean come on Doom is the only action game in that entire list.
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« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2009, 09:33:07 AM »

Quote from: kronovan on February 19, 2009, 06:24:44 AM

WoW being in the number 1 spot automatically discredits any top 10 PC game lists IMO. I don't care how you argue it, WoW just isn't a game that set a standard since most of what's worthwhile in it was done in other MMORPGs before it.

But maybe it did it better ? This isn't a "most influential pc games of all time" list. But then off course Doom doesn't make sense since it's been done better after that.... I dunno

No matter how you look at it though, it's a useless list. Who made it btw ?

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marcusjm
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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2009, 01:16:03 PM »

But using that argument you should have put Doom2 instead of Doom1, I don't know anyone who thinks 1 is better than 2.
Perhaps Duke Nukem could have challenged either though slywink.

Lists like these are really pointless. They will always look vastly different depending on taste and preferences.
He is not into flight sims since neither Falcon 3 or IL2 appears on this list. Plenty of RPG/Strategy Games that would
have made my list instead of Myst.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 01:19:22 PM by marcusjm » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2009, 02:10:52 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on February 19, 2009, 01:30:44 AM

Quote from: marcusjm on February 19, 2009, 12:24:44 AM

Ok, found out that TW2002 was a BBS game back in the days, never played any of those. I can't see a game like that competing with the ones I mentioned. Does it even classify as a PC game?
It does.  You'd probably have to be 35+ to remember it and what a huge hit it was.

While I'm not 35+ (yet), I do know what a huge game it was back in the day. There really was nothing else quite like it, well, ever. The only thing close to it nowadays is Eve Online.

And I agree on the WoW statement - no Top 10 list should include it because all it is is a MMO designed for the generic masses. Is everything done right with it? Well, yeah (as otherwise it wouldn't have the numbers). But it's now more or less of an insult to the MMO world, as everybody is trying to emulate it (and some people don't want the simplicity to be emulated).
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marcusjm
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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2009, 03:04:34 PM »

It is more that at that time the big systems were C64/Amiga. BBS gaming really wasn't that
big when you had top games to play offline slywink.

I think I count as the no 1 veteran here since I owned the PONG console smile.
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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2009, 03:35:50 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on February 19, 2009, 02:10:52 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on February 19, 2009, 01:30:44 AM

Quote from: marcusjm on February 19, 2009, 12:24:44 AM

Ok, found out that TW2002 was a BBS game back in the days, never played any of those. I can't see a game like that competing with the ones I mentioned. Does it even classify as a PC game?
It does.  You'd probably have to be 35+ to remember it and what a huge hit it was.

And I agree on the WoW statement - no Top 10 list should include it because all it is is a MMO designed for the generic masses. Is everything done right with it? Well, yeah (as otherwise it wouldn't have the numbers). But it's now more or less of an insult to the MMO world, as everybody is trying to emulate it (and some people don't want the simplicity to be emulated).

All it is is a fantastically designed game that has 11 million subscribers. Dismissing it as "just an MMO" is silly. It's just as much of a game as Doom or Civilization and it deserves the same attention. I don't think I'd put it in the #1 spot, but it would certainly be in the top 10.
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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2009, 12:30:45 AM »

Quote from: kratz on February 18, 2009, 05:29:48 PM

X-Com must be on any real top 10 list.  Gimme a break.

Agreed.

I'd also throw in Baulder's Gate as well.
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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2009, 12:46:30 AM »

Yea WOW on there is one of the least ones I have a problem with and I am not even really a fan.
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« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2009, 12:52:02 AM »

Trade Wars is the WTF for me as well, as I'm almost 40.  I'd have put Empire above it if they felt the need to represent the early stuff.

And generally I think you can view the franchise starters on that list as representing the franchises.  There is something to be said for being the first in a line that is still going strong today, even if sequels are arguably better games or sold more copies. 

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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2009, 01:41:33 AM »

Yeah, WTF, no X-Com?!?
It's consistenly mentioned a LOT on every serious PC games fourum I've ever read, whenever someone starts a thread on all-time best PC games.

I've never played it, but I bought it for my brother and mailed it to him for Christmas many years ago. He was not a gamer at the time, but I thought it might win him over. It won him over, all right. After a week or so, I called him to see if he got my package. He answered the phone, and all he said was, "Can't talk right now. I'm playing X-Com." Then he hung up on me! He hung up on me, his own brother, calling from 1,500 miles away.

I didn't hear from him for weeks. When I finally talked to him again, he said that game had consumed his life during that time. He thought about it while he wasn't playing, he dreamed about it, and while he was playing, he'd do huge marathon sessions.

I've been impressed by that game ever since. I've never seen him so worked up about anything, really. He's played other games since then, but he STILL gets all excited and tallks a lot about X-Com.
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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2009, 01:49:55 AM »

I've never heard of Trade Wars 2002.

Seriously, never.

Planescape?

Diablo II?

Myth The Fallen Lords?

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri?

Unreal Tournament?

Company of Heroes?

Half-Life? (1 or 2)

Rome Total War?

I'd put any of these over ... what was it called again?




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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2009, 09:03:41 AM »

Trade Wars is probably in my top 20. Don't understand the hate from people who have never heard of it. But that's ok. I also can't condone any list that doesn't have Starflight at #1, or at least in the top 5.
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« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2009, 01:53:48 PM »

Quote from: Dunamis on February 20, 2009, 12:30:45 AM

Quote from: kratz on February 18, 2009, 05:29:48 PM

X-Com must be on any real top 10 list.  Gimme a break.
Agreed.

I'd also throw in Balder's Gate as well.

And Planescape Torment.
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« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2009, 04:49:53 PM »

Quote from: Dunamis on February 20, 2009, 12:30:45 AM

Quote from: kratz on February 18, 2009, 05:29:48 PM

X-Com must be on any real top 10 list.  Gimme a break.

Agreed.

I'd also throw in Baulder's Gate as well.


Agreed, Baldur's Gate has to be on any list of top-10 PC Games.
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« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2009, 04:51:37 PM »

Quote from: Scuzz on February 20, 2009, 04:49:53 PM

Agreed, Baldur's Gate has to be on any list of top-10 PC Games.

+1. It's a brilliant game.

Shoot; my list would look drastically different, as I'd have to shoehorn in some Heroes of Might and Magic 3, and some Half Life.

But I'd also have WoW at #1.
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« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2009, 05:05:20 PM »

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Deus Ex yet.
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« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2009, 07:19:58 PM »

Quote from: Old Negus on February 20, 2009, 09:03:41 AM

Trade Wars is probably in my top 20. Don't understand the hate from people who have never heard of it. But that's ok. I also can't condone any list that doesn't have Starflight at #1, or at least in the top 5.

I can't hate something I've never heard of smile I am definitely going to be looking into it though.

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« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2009, 08:34:06 PM »

Quote from: Old Negus on February 20, 2009, 09:03:41 AM

Trade Wars is probably in my top 20. Don't understand the hate from people who have never heard of it. But that's ok. I also can't condone any list that doesn't have Starflight at #1, or at least in the top 5.

Starflight!  Another great game that should be mentioned as well.
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« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2009, 09:06:55 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on February 18, 2009, 05:23:14 PM

I saw this on MSN and after some reflection...I'd have to say they got it right.

10.  Trade Wars 2002
09.  Myst
08.  The Sims
07.  Starcraft
06.  Rogue
05.  M.U.L.E
04.  SimCity
03.  Civilization
02.  Doom
01.  World of Warcraft

At first glance, I scoffed at the list.  Where was X-Com?  Quake?  Half-Life?  MS Flight Simulator?  Zork?  But then I thought about it...and I think he got it right.  These games really are the gold standard in PC gaming.  The only thing I can think of to swap out would be Ultima for Rogue...and even then, it's close.

Seriously, this list is bullshit.  Top game 10 games HOW?

They did a horrible job of mixing top games in terms of genre defining and money making.

If you're gonna make a top 10 list, at least be halfway fucking serious about it and come up with measuring stick first.  Top 10 how?

I mean there's top 10 most fun to play...top 10 most profitable...top 10 biggest sellers...top 10 by how long a shelf life they had...top 10 by technology advancement....top 10 by genre / industry impact...top 10 by readers choice favorites...top 10 by editors choice favorites...

There's dozens of good top 10 rankings to have, but this list is bullshit.  In no universe do simcity, starcraft, wow and the Sims belong on the same top10 list unless you're doing biggest selling titles.  In which case i really don't give a damn except to say the biggest selling title are not the best games of all time...they're just mass marketed bullshit

I mean for shit's sake, there aint even a physical simulator or sports game on the list...how the fuck do you justify that?  A top 10 of all time list doesn't leave out 2 of the biggest genres entirely and include multiple EA piles of dogshit without someone getting a motherfucking kickback!

It all comes back to a big what the fuck is the top 10 they're talking about?  Cause i know there must be a category here...it's just not mentioned in the OP.  The OP mentions "Gold standard of gaming" but that's sheer bullshit cause that'd rule out WoW right off the game.  WoW CANT be a gold standard of PC gaming.  It's a current, and non-evolutionary title.  All Wow is is taking Diablo 2 and making it more than 6 player in full 3D.  Something that had ALREADY been done...WoW CANT be a golden standard of PC Gaming.   It can be a current benchmark to measure new games against since it's currently the most popular, but it CANT be a golden standard.
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« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2009, 09:52:28 PM »

Any top 10 list is bound to be crap, especially if no other criteria has been set except the woefully vague "Top".

Pong
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daikatana
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« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2009, 10:46:15 PM »

I've come to realize that Top 10 Lists are a news site's lazy way of creating content when they lack the staff (everyone's going with skeleton crews in today's economy) to do anything more interesting (Sports Illustrated's site does them every hour I believe), and pretty much the only thing the lists do is piss off everybody who didn't come up with the list themselves.

I guess it's all David Letterman's fault.  icon_razz

Oh, and as a longtime PC World subscriber, I apologize for the list.  puke
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« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2009, 11:46:11 PM »

Well it was his taste, not much to say about that but I wanted to add
something about the "first of a kind" case ruling out Doom2 over Doom1. In that
case Laser Squad should overtake XCOM.

Jagged Alliance 2 is at least my all time best game ever. Never replayed the same game so many times.
I have played games since they started making commersial computer/console games.
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« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2009, 07:03:52 AM »

What a crappy mix of criteria-crossing ambiguity. I think it's an awful list.

I could, however, see nine of these making some sort of list (most influential, most popular, etc.).

But Myst? I remember it being big, but I don't remember it being that big of a deal. Am I just remembering this wrong?
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« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2009, 02:02:15 PM »

Myst was a HUGE deal in its time.  It had state of the art graphics (again for its time).  I even had a conversation about Myst with the postman once as an example of how mainstream it was.

It spawned it's own genre of Myst-clones and probably did a lot to kill off the "traditional" (i.e. Sam & Max, etc.) adventure game.

Of course I think the ratio of how many people owned the game vs. finished it was pretty small.
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« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2009, 02:26:27 PM »

Trade Wars 2002 brings back some good memories. I remember playing in the 90s on a local BBS down here in Fort Lauderdale, FL. There was an alliance of players who tried to rule the game but there was one player who cloaked his ships and wouldn't live up to their rule. He had a big enough fleet to cause them concern.
I thought it'd be interesting to join this "rebel" and sure enough I did, us against the rest of the BBS! Ended up meeting the guy (well we were kids back then) who was only about 7 houses down from me.

Trade Wars 2002, for it's time at least, was one hell of a game for having no graphics!
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« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2009, 09:20:24 PM »

Quote from: warning on February 21, 2009, 02:02:15 PM

Myst was a HUGE deal in its time.  It had state of the art graphics (again for its time).  I even had a conversation about Myst with the postman once as an example of how mainstream it was.

It spawned it's own genre of Myst-clones and probably did a lot to kill off the "traditional" (i.e. Sam & Max, etc.) adventure game.

Of course I think the ratio of how many people owned the game vs. finished it was pretty small.

Yeah, I remember having a few conversations with friends who weren't gamers about Myst as well. It definitely reached into the general public sphere in much the same way as the Wii does now. So okay, I'll concede it some points for making a splash in society.

But I'd also argue that it didn't redefine gaming in any large sense. It spawned boatloads of clones that by and large sucked and didn't garner the same appeal that Myst did. Even subsequent versions of the Myst never captured close to the same quality as the original. In other words, it was a one-shot hit that didn't take gaming anywhere in a lasting societal sense.

I also argue that the reason for its flash and fade success was that it wasn't a very good game. The world was beautiful, sure, and that gave it a mass appeal that made non-gamers go "Ohh!" and "Ah!". The sound and music gave it a mystical mood that sucked you in to the game's mystery. The game had a way of immediately pulling you into the world. But the world was ultimately sterile, the game's appeal faded the more you played, the puzzles were easy, and it was quite short. It was like a screen saver with depth.
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« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2009, 01:09:17 AM »

I've been playing computer games since about 1980. Just background.

Greatest of all time, imo, would be those which broke new ground, not just those which sold a lot.

For example, I remember Wizardry. First game of its type with a cool tongue in cheek manual, and the wireframe 3D dungeon environment was amazing. Sure, Garriot had done 3D kinda as an experiment in Akalabeth, but Wizardry was the first real 3D dungeon crawler, with riddles, traps, mapping, etc. It just blew us all away.

Myst I can understand. Even when it came out, people noted it wasn't a great "game" but it really did break new ground in terms of graphic adventures. But you could make a better argument that Wizard and the Princess, which was the first major color graphic adventure, was more amazing for it's time and better in every "best of" way.

M.U.L.E., Simcity, Civ, Doom, those all make a lot of sense to me. The Sims does too, just for what it introduced and how out of the box it was. Trade Wars? Eh. I'd argue the original Adventure, or Zork, HAS to be on any greatest games of all times list.
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jersoc
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« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2009, 01:14:17 AM »

i love site's that put out bullshit top 10 lists simply to drive up their traffic. this is clearly what the list is. the sims? give me a break. that is hardly what i would consider a game. you stare at fake people taking a shower all day, exciting times! WoW, while a good mmo, shouldn't be on that list. No diablo? The game that single handly revived pc rpgs? Ok. At least starcraft is there, but i would put warcraft 2 instead.
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