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Author Topic: PC Gaming has ruined my Xbox 360 fever.  (Read 2911 times)
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Dante Rising
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« on: November 19, 2005, 06:58:30 PM »

Today I was at my local Best Buy and EBgames, and got to try the Xbox 360 on a few different television setups (LCD, DLP, Plasma).  I tried out King Kong, Kameo, Call of Duty 2 and Perfect Dark Zero. While I readily admit that the system is impressive, I noticed that unlike the people around me, I wasn't really awed by anything I was seeing.

All of these games look slightly less attractive than things I've been playing on my high end PC for the last year. After seeing games like Doom 3, Half-Life 2, and Fear on a PC at 1600x1200, the Xbox 360 really had no impact with me.

When the guy next to me made a comment on how unbelievable the graphics were, I replied "Yeah, they are nice." And that about sums up my Xbox 360 experience- nice.

There is no doubt that it is a light year ahead of the first xbox, but it still doesn't quite match a high-end PCs offering in terms of eyecandy. So when you see all the hyperbole about "best graphics ever!!!!" in various forums, just remember to qualify it with "....on a console" in the back of your mind. I applaud Microsoft's efforts, and I know I'll buy an Xbox 360 eventually, but somehow I feel like my PC Gaming roots, coupled with a powerful system, make every console somewhat anticlimactic.  I really wanted to get caught up in the 360 fever, but a big part of that centers solely upon graphics. Damn the Geforce 7800GTX. Damn AMD. Damn Crucial Ballistix memory. They've ruined my innocence and made me another jaded PC Gamer.

I hope all the new 360 owners really enjoy their system. I'll join you someday. In the meantime, if any of you need me I'll be playing FEAR and Civilization 3.
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Dreamshadow
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2005, 07:15:11 PM »

Thanks..I think you just defined why I have just been enjoying my current consoles (PS2 and Cube) and not really wowed by the xbox and it's newest sibling.
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Jumangi
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2005, 07:19:53 PM »

People can go back and forth about what looks better as its a matter of personal taste many times as to the developers choice in art direction and such. Even then the thing that makes the 360 still so attractive is the cost. To get a game like FEAR runninng at 1600x1200 your going to need a video card that costs about as much as a whole 360 does.
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Nth Power
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2005, 07:25:44 PM »

The biggest thing I see in a 360 right now is the ability to play HD games on a big screen TV.  That's got me a little excited to go get one.  As it is, I'll wait until sometime post-holiday season when I have more $$ and the game library is larger.
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Dreamshadow
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2005, 07:27:46 PM »

BTW, to add to the discussion:  http://www.gamingtrend.com/News/news.php?NewsID=4370
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2005, 07:40:36 PM »

Quote from: "Dante Rising"

There is no doubt that it is a light year ahead of the first xbox, but it still doesn't quite match a high-end PCs offering in terms of eyecandy. So when you see all the hyperbole about "best graphics ever!!!!" in various forums, just remember to qualify it with "....on a console" in the back of your mind. I applaud Microsoft's efforts, and I know I'll buy an Xbox 360 eventually, but somehow I feel like my PC Gaming roots, coupled with a powerful system, make every console somewhat anticlimactic.  I really wanted to get caught up in the 360 fever, but a big part of that centers solely upon graphics. Damn the Geforce 7800GTX. Damn AMD. Damn Crucial Ballistix memory. They've ruined my innocence and made me another jaded PC Gamer.



I wouldn't say that the PC is offering anything better right now but just equivalent.  Call of Duty 2 and Quake 4 are both on the 360 and are two of the best looking shooters on the PC right now.  I haven't looked at Quake 4 360 reviews, but CoD 2 at least offers all of the same graphical bells and whistles at the PC version, smooth framerate, and, if outputting to a 1080i television, 1950x1080 resolution.  

While FEAR isn't on the 360, its my understanding that 'Condemned' is using the same engine and is once again available on the 360 in a perfectly smooth high res version.  

While Doom 3 isn't on the 360 for obvious reason, the PC version of Quake 4 looks superior to Doom 3 so barring any shortcuts, the 360 version should look identical.  

I'm really not seeing any PC games out there right now that actually beat the 360 in terms of visuals.
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DamageInc
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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2005, 07:52:17 PM »

I'll agree to this point

PC:
 AMD processor $500 to $900
 2 video cards in SLI mode $800 to $1000
 Add in everything else to make this PC go $500 to $1000

*Note this is the cost range to build a state of the art PC or close to it.

$1800 to $2900 ( Price can go up or down depending on if you build it yourself or not )

Xbox 360:
Premium unit $400
Wireless adapter $100

$500 if you already have an HDTV, if not then add another $1000 for a pretty decent model that will be far larger than any PC monitor.

The other thing you have to remember is that these are the games coming out now, and devs have not even tapped into what they can fully do with the unit. Games that are released for consoles later in the console's product life cycle are much better than the ones at launch, and you are still using the same core system.

If you want to scale up to match with a PC you have to upgrade your hardware again.

Then you add any software glitches, firewall and router issues, patches that you have to contend with it's no wonder PC gaming is on the decline and console use is increasing.


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mikeg
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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2005, 07:59:37 PM »

I totally agree with you, but also agree with the fact that your uber pc is 3x the cost of a brand spanking new console.   Game prices are a non issue since they all drop so face and go on sale.

I totally agree in the graphics area though.  I have seen Call of Duty 2 at the kiosks and it looks no better than my 2 1/2 year old PC.  And my pc ran it fine.  People can jump up and down how the 360 is as powerful as today's high end pc's all they want, but the fact remains no TV is gonna make them look as good as a pc monitor.  Period.  One could argue that to really take advantage of the 360 you have to have a $1500 TV (and up up up).  I won't argue against that, but nowadays most people are getting one whether they play games or not.  It's just a fact of modern life for well-to-do people.    

I really had a hard time deciding whether to just build a new pc and not console or get a console and drop pc gaming, but with money as tight as it has become I HAVE to go the console route.  If money was not as it is and I could afford a $1,500 pc I might think differently.  But the fact remains my goal for the life of the 360 is to not spend more than $1500-2000.  I could never do that PC gaming.
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Hetz
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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2005, 08:19:13 PM »

Quote from: "Dante Rising"
Today I was at my local Best Buy and EBgames, and got to try the Xbox 360 on a few different television setups (LCD, DLP, Plasma).  I tried out King Kong, Kameo, Call of Duty 2 and Perfect Dark Zero. While I readily admit that the system is impressive, I noticed that unlike the people around me, I wasn't really awed by anything I was seeing.

All of these games look slightly less attractive than things I've been playing on my high end PC for the last year. After seeing games like Doom 3, Half-Life 2, and Fear on a PC at 1600x1200, the Xbox 360 really had no impact with me.

When the guy next to me made a comment on how unbelievable the graphics were, I replied "Yeah, they are nice." And that about sums up my Xbox 360 experience- nice.

There is no doubt that it is a light year ahead of the first xbox, but it still doesn't quite match a high-end PCs offering in terms of eyecandy. So when you see all the hyperbole about "best graphics ever!!!!" in various forums, just remember to qualify it with "....on a console" in the back of your mind. I applaud Microsoft's efforts, and I know I'll buy an Xbox 360 eventually, but somehow I feel like my PC Gaming roots, coupled with a powerful system, make every console somewhat anticlimactic.  I really wanted to get caught up in the 360 fever, but a big part of that centers solely upon graphics. Damn the Geforce 7800GTX. Damn AMD. Damn Crucial Ballistix memory. They've ruined my innocence and made me another jaded PC Gamer.

I hope all the new 360 owners really enjoy their system. I'll join you someday. In the meantime, if any of you need me I'll be playing FEAR and Civilization 3.


While I respect your opinion....the thing about the graphics is just rubbish.

I have a AMDX2 4400+, 7800GT SLI system and COD2 looks and runs better on the Xbox 360, end of story. While the graphics on COD2 are not a huge leap up from a high end PC....they are a bit better (the res isn't quite as high, but the detail and textures are a bit better.....and it runs MUCH smoother. Plus I get to play it on a 56" Widescreen. smile

Anyway, this happens everytime a new console is released. I'll enjoy both my PC and my 360 thank you very much.  Oh and let me know when games like Kameo come out on the PC! That game is better looking than ANYTHING I have ever seen on the PC.
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Dante Rising
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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2005, 08:31:54 PM »

I think some of you are missing my point. I'm not trying to compare prices or make an "either-or"  comparison. I'm merely stating that high end pc user will not see anything that makes them feel like we've truly entered a new generation of graphics.  In other words for the Xbox/PS2/Gamecube owner this is truly a new horizon. For the PC enthusiast it is year old graphics. I'm certain the second generation games will push the envelope further, but for the moment there is no awe factor.


Quote
I have a AMDX2 4400+, 7800GT SLI system and COD2 looks and runs better on the Xbox 360, end of story.


I'm shocked you think this is true. What type of monitor are you using? On a Mitsubishi DiamondPro 930SB there is a definite advantage over the Xbox 360.  Your system can easily run CoD2 at 1600x1200 w/AA.  But, as you stated, these things can be slightly subjective.
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mikeg
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2005, 08:34:15 PM »

Dante, to your actual point-I agree.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2005, 08:48:15 PM »

Quote from: "Dante Rising"
Your system can easily run CoD2 at 1600x1200 w/AA.  But, as you stated, these things can be slightly subjective.


CoD2 on a 360 is running either 1280x720 (720p set) or 1950x1080 (1080i set) w/AA so I'm not really sure what's supposed to look better on the PC.
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2005, 08:53:16 PM »

I can go to 2048x1536 on my PC... it would die if I tried to run any kind of game at that res (3400HT, 6800GT, 2GB RAM) - but I can do it...

That doesn't really matter since they don't make PGR3 or Amped 3 for the PC.
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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2005, 11:14:57 PM »

It's a leap forward in console gaming and not overall gaming. I would agree with that.
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Scott
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« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2005, 12:16:31 AM »

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I have a AMDX2 4400+, 7800GT SLI system and COD2 looks and runs better on the Xbox 360, end of story.

Then you really need to install your cards better, or up your drivers, as CoD2 should be super smooth on your system.  I have a crappy system compared to you, and CoD2 runs smoothly.  Its well and good to be excited about the 360, but your computer should shred CoD2 if setup right.

http://firingsquad.com/hardware/call_of_duty_2_performance_ati_nvidia/page10.asp
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« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2005, 12:16:54 AM »

Just got one thing to say:

1.  Consoles totally smash anything on the PC when it comes to Sports titles.

2.  This console finally matches high end PC graphics

3.  This means this console will have sports games looking the way they SHOULD look, the way I've WANTED them to look.

That alone is worth the hundreds for me.
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Scott
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« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2005, 12:19:16 AM »

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3. This means this console will have sports games looking the way they SHOULD look, the way I've WANTED them to look.


Go Madden! smile

Quote
1. Consoles totally smash anything on the PC when it comes to Sports titles.

Depends on the sport.  I think golf is a lot better on the PC, then the arcadey console Tiger game.  NBA Live got ported well to the PC, and the ability to manipulate and tweak rosters better, update ballparks, better tweak, etc. all make games like baseball much better on the PC.  Its all a matter of opinion.
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« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2005, 12:33:44 AM »

Quote from: "Scott"
Quote
I have a AMDX2 4400+, 7800GT SLI system and COD2 looks and runs better on the Xbox 360, end of story.

Then you really need to install your cards better, or up your drivers, as CoD2 should be super smooth on your system.  I have a crappy system compared to you, and CoD2 runs smoothly.  Its well and good to be excited about the 360, but your computer should shred CoD2 if setup right.

http://firingsquad.com/hardware/call_of_duty_2_performance_ati_nvidia/page10.asp


Uhh...not that old song and dance "your drivers are installed wrong!" or "your system isn't setup correctly".  :roll:

Did you even look at those benchmarks? I run COD2 at 1680x1050 4X/8X on my PC. Those benchmarks you show are saying that  the 7800GT SLI get's 39 FPS at about the same resolution.

The Xbox 360 version seems to be running at a constant 60 FPS. No slowdowns at all. That is NOT true with the PC version.

This can go back and forth, but I'm telling you, the Xbox 360 outperforms pretty much any highend PC on the market today. Of course it will be surpassed...but for now, the 360 is king, IMO.

Show me a game on the PC that looks anywhere near as good as Kameo.
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« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2005, 12:36:01 AM »

I've gotta think that the solid HDTVs that you guys need to compare the graphics to a PC are going to ramp up the total costs considerably. The one grand that someone stated above seems low, to me. You can't compare the same size between TV and PC, since you're farther away from the television. I mean, you're not going to game on this set and be able to really see the details of the game from the comfort of your couch - yer gunna want this set instead.
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« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2005, 12:41:03 AM »

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Did you even look at those benchmarks? I run COD2 at 1680x1050 4X/8X on my PC. Those benchmarks you show are saying that the 7800GT SLI get's 39 FPS at about the same resolution.

The SLI setup runs the x768 resolution (which is equivalent to the 360) at greater then 60fps.  That's also a stress test of the game, usually it runs significantly faster.

What you said is that you are running the game at a higher resolution then the 360, with better filtering, so it should look better.  Have you tweaked your monitor at all?  I know that after I calibrated my monitor (I do a lot of photo work), games look substantially better on it, as colors aren't washed out anymore.  Chances are your PC's monitor is washing out colors, while your TV is showing them much truer.

The 360 is great, but PCs still can do better.  I think its closer then ever before.

Quote
Show me a game on the PC that looks anywhere near as good as Kameo.

Half Life 2 and Total War Rome are two I can think of that I've recently played.  Kameo is very colorful, another game that will be more dependent most likely on your monitor vs TV, rather then PC vs 360.
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« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2005, 12:43:44 AM »

For everyone claiming the $1000 TV is so great, name a few great HDTVs are that price?  A 23" Samsung display is $1000 or so.  A 24" Dell LCD that runs at a higher resolution is cheaper.

Sure, you can get some of the tube hdtvs that are under $1000, but very few do 720p, and I doubt any of them get close to displaying 720 lines of resolution.

I'm guessing Hetz's beautiful 56" tv costs more then most pretty good gaming PCs...

I also like the fact that PC games are $30.  It looks like a lot of 360 games will be $60, and short.  I'll take the two PC games over one 360 game.  The CoD2 collectors edition of the PC was $35 at GoGamer this week.  Not bad.

That all said, I'll be getting the 360 at some point, but its not the second coming smile.
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« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2005, 12:54:58 AM »

Quote from: "Scott"
For everyone claiming the $1000 TV is so great, name a few great HDTVs are that price?  A 23" Samsung display is $1000 or so.  A 24" Dell LCD that runs at a higher resolution is cheaper.

Sure, you can get some of the tube hdtvs that are under $1000, but very few do 720p, and I doubt any of them get close to displaying 720 lines of resolution.

I'm guessing Hetz's beautiful 56" tv costs more then most pretty good gaming PCs...

I also like the fact that PC games are $30.  It looks like a lot of 360 games will be $60, and short.  I'll take the two PC games over one 360 game.  The CoD2 collectors edition of the PC was $35 at GoGamer this week.  Not bad.

That all said, I'll be getting the 360 at some point, but its not the second coming smile.


You can do a lot more with his beautiful 56" tv than you can with a tiny little computer monitor.

Such as watch HDTV/DVD's with the clarity they are supposed to have. A computer monitor lacks the crispness that my 61" Samsung HDTV has when it comes to displaying HDTV or DVD's. There is a difference in quality and it is very noticible in my eyes.
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Scott
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« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2005, 12:57:22 AM »

Quote
You can do a lot more with his beautiful 56" tv than you can with a tiny little computer monitor.

Such as watch HDTV/DVD's with the clarity they are supposed to have. A computer monitor lacks the crispness that my 61" Samsung HDTV has when it comes to displaying HDTV or DVD's. There is a difference in quality and it is very noticible in my eyes.

I can do a lot more with my monitor then a 56" tv too, like edit my photos, write emails, etc. etc.  Lets not play this game, come on.

The huge HDTVs are awesome, but cost more then gaming PCs smile.

And most, if not all, computer monitors will show every bit of resolution a DVD has too, with the exact same clarity.  When you start talking about HD DVDs, then we'll talk.  Again, your monitor probably sucks compared to your TV, or isn't calibrated like your TV may be.  Or maybe your DVD software sucks and isn't doing the same upconversion.  DVDs are only 480p.  Monitors have been able to do that for years more then TVs.
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« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2005, 01:30:35 AM »

Quote from: "Hetz"
This can go back and forth, but I'm telling you, the Xbox 360 outperforms pretty much any highend PC on the market today.

Of course it does.  But if you read his original post he's saying that the level of graphics the Xbox 360 puts out is not leaps and bounds different/better than what a high end PC can put out.  A little AA here and a bump in resolution there doesn't make that much of a difference.  Games look amazing on both the 360 and PC's.

I kinda wonder if we've gotten to a point where graphics will look astounding on any system (perhaps with the exception of Nintendo's Revolution) and the "mine's bigger! NO mine's bigger!" posturing we've all grown to know and love will go away.

Maybe not but it's a nice thought.
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« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2005, 01:55:41 AM »

Quote from: "Scott"



Quote
Show me a game on the PC that looks anywhere near as good as Kameo.

Half Life 2 and Total War Rome are two I can think of that I've recently played.  Kameo is very colorful, another game that will be more dependent most likely on your monitor vs TV, rather then PC vs 360.


Half Life 2 and Total War? Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree there. The graphical effects used in Kameo are mindblowing and stuff I have really not seen before in a PC game. Half Life 2 looks good, but it's just not as good as Kameo, heck Condemned looks better than Half-Life 2.

There are HUNDREDS of very detailed characters on screen at once in Kameo, with explosions going off around you. No slowdown at all. In Total War, I'm sorry but those soldiers are nowhere near the level of graphical detail as the soldiers and orcs in Kameo.

Guess we are going to just have to agree to disagree.
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« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2005, 02:06:16 AM »

Quote
There are HUNDREDS of very detailed characters on screen at once in Kameo, with explosions going off around you. No slowdown at all. In Total War, I'm sorry but those soldiers are nowhere near the level of graphical detail as the soldiers and orcs in Kameo.

I usually have battles with 1000s and 1000s of little soldiers, with flaming arrows, catapaults, and now lately all this has been going on at night.

Half Life 2 Lost Cost is incredible, better then what I've seen at least from Kameo, but I'll see down the road.
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« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2005, 02:23:25 AM »

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Of course it does. But if you read his original post he's saying that the level of graphics the Xbox 360 puts out is not leaps and bounds different/better than what a high end PC can put out.


No, he's actually saying PC games still have better graphics which is what I'm disputing.  I have no problems calling it a wash but there is nothing on the PC right now that doesn't have an equivalent on the 360 in terms of visuals.  

Quote from: "Scott"
The SLI setup runs the x768 resolution (which is equivalent to the 360) at greater then 60fps


x768 is not equivalent to 720p.  1024x768 is a 4:3 resoltion.  720p is 1280x720 which is 16:9 and requires additional content to be rendered since the screen dimensions are proportionally larger.  

More content being rendered=lower framerate.
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« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2005, 03:09:02 AM »

I'm hoping that this next generation of consoles will eventually give us games that have actual gameplay that mirrors the cut scene quality we've always watched in games like Final fantasy X.

Remember when Sony boasted that the PS2 was capable of Toy Story quality  gameplay? Hopefully we've finally reached the point where this will be true.
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« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2005, 03:33:12 AM »

Quote from: "Scott"
Quote
You can do a lot more with his beautiful 56" tv than you can with a tiny little computer monitor.

Such as watch HDTV/DVD's with the clarity they are supposed to have. A computer monitor lacks the crispness that my 61" Samsung HDTV has when it comes to displaying HDTV or DVD's. There is a difference in quality and it is very noticible in my eyes.

I can do a lot more with my monitor then a 56" tv too, like edit my photos, write emails, etc. etc.  Lets not play this game, come on.

The huge HDTVs are awesome, but cost more then gaming PCs smile.

And most, if not all, computer monitors will show every bit of resolution a DVD has too, with the exact same clarity.  When you start talking about HD DVDs, then we'll talk.  Again, your monitor probably sucks compared to your TV, or isn't calibrated like your TV may be.  Or maybe your DVD software sucks and isn't doing the same upconversion.  DVDs are only 480p.  Monitors have been able to do that for years more then TVs.





 Well I've watched DVD's on my computer monitor and on my HDTV,a nd HDTV content  on both and the HDTV out performs the monitor in picture quality.
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« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2005, 04:01:10 AM »

Quote
and the HDTV out performs the monitor in picture quality.

I'm sure, as I said, it sounds like you have a much, much better TV then monitor.  If that's the case, its no doubt it looks better on your TV.  For people with better monitors, there probably isn't that much of a difference.

Quote
x768 is not equivalent to 720p.

I'm well aware.  Hetz was running his PC games at a higher then 720p resolution (1650x1080), equivalent to 1080p.  He was also running the game with more filtering then the 360 can do.  I'd expect the framerate to dip at the setting he was using.  I'm not sure how well his monitor is calibrated (to not wash out colors amongst other things), but I imagine the combination caused him to like the smoother, more colorful 360 version.  Its pretty common and fairly easy to calibrate HDTVs, but a lot rarer I think for people to calibrate their monitors, and it does make a difference.

Anyway, the 360 is a pretty nice system, but I still don't think it full equals top of the line PCs.  Price wise, the 360 running on a TV that shows it off, isn't that different pricewise from a really good gaming system.
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« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2005, 04:12:02 AM »

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and the HDTV out performs the monitor in picture quality.

I'm sure, as I said, it sounds like you have a much, much better TV then monitor.  If that's the case, its no doubt it looks better on your TV.  For people with better monitors, there probably isn't that much of a difference.

Quote
x768 is not equivalent to 720p.

I'm well aware.  Hetz was running his PC games at a higher then 720p resolution (1650x1080), equivalent to 1080p.  He was also running the game with more filtering then the 360 can do.  I'd expect the framerate to dip at the setting he was using.  I'm not sure how well his monitor is calibrated (to not wash out colors amongst other things), but I imagine the combination caused him to like the smoother, more colorful 360 version.  Its pretty common and fairly easy to calibrate HDTVs, but a lot rarer I think for people to calibrate their monitors, and it does make a difference.

Anyway, the 360 is a pretty nice system, but I still don't think it full equals top of the line PCs.  Price wise, the 360 running on a TV that shows it off, isn't that different pricewise from a really good gaming system.


I have a very good monitor, with an AMD 4400+ 7800 GTX 2GB of ram on a pure digital connection. Games loook GREEEAAT, but video images do not look as good as they do on my HDTV.

DVD's and HDTV content looks better on HDTVs in my opinion.
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« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2005, 06:22:32 AM »

Quote from: "Scott"
I'm well aware.  Hetz was running his PC games at a higher then 720p resolution (1650x1080), equivalent to 1080p.  He was also running the game with more filtering then the 360 can do.  I'd expect the framerate to dip at the setting he was using.  I'm not sure how well his monitor is calibrated (to not wash out colors amongst other things), but I imagine the combination caused him to like the smoother, more colorful 360 version.  Its pretty common and fairly easy to calibrate HDTVs, but a lot rarer I think for people to calibrate their monitors, and it does make a difference.

Anyway, the 360 is a pretty nice system, but I still don't think it full equals top of the line PCs.  Price wise, the 360 running on a TV that shows it off, isn't that different pricewise from a really good gaming system.



Who's your crack dealer? Tongue

Seriously, you think the term "pricewise" works with using SLI cards?? Cripes, ONE of those cards costs more than the system, TWO of them??? and that's ONLY the videocard. An X360 killer gaming rig is more expensive than going out and buying a 360, the neato accessories AND an HDTV to go with it (with a significantly larger screen, I might add). Then go out and buy a 2405FPW (~800 US MSRP) on top of that. Dollar for dollar, the console is cheaper. The manufacturers are taking a well-known LOSS for every hardware unit sold. Every component you buy for your rig generates revenue for its manufacturer.

for reference : 1650x1080 is 1.78million pixels. 1080i is 2.07 million, 1.03 million drawn per frame. 1080p is 2.07mill drawn, but since the x360 doesn't do it, it's a "mute" (read moot) point.
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« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2005, 07:01:19 AM »

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Show me a game on the PC that looks anywhere near as good as Kameo.

Half Life 2 and Total War Rome are two I can think of that I've recently played.  Kameo is very colorful, another game that will be more dependent most likely on your monitor vs TV, rather then PC vs 360.


Half Life 2 and Total War? Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree there. The graphical effects used in Kameo are mindblowing and stuff I have really not seen before in a PC game. Half Life 2 looks good, but it's just not as good as Kameo, heck Condemned looks better than Half-Life 2.

There are HUNDREDS of very detailed characters on screen at once in Kameo, with explosions going off around you. No slowdown at all. In Total War, I'm sorry but those soldiers are nowhere near the level of graphical detail as the soldiers and orcs in Kameo.

Guess we are going to just have to agree to disagree.


I'll disagee. HL2 overall looks as good as anything out there. The texture work and art direction is superb, and the character animation system is still the best around. Plus you don't need a killer machine to run the game well in high resolution.

The indavidual units in Total War may not look as good, but I have fought battles with over 7000 units. That would be many times the number in Kameo. Nuff said.
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« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2005, 01:44:15 PM »

Playing ripped dvds on my PSP kicks the asses of both PCs and Xbox360s. biggrin

Seriously, I understand the original intent of this thread, which is that the leaps and bounds of the 360 are not that different than the newer PC games and video cards.  Sure the 360 looks good on an HDTV, and sure some games play and look better on either a PC or 360, but the different is not vast enough that the 360 looks like the second coming.  Being able to play CoD2 or Quake4 on the 360 on a big screen is not enough of an incentive to buy a 360 and all the trappings, when I can play both games on my PC with all the bells and whistles.  

Still, that will all change as the 360 gets more exclusives and my wallet gets more money to buy the 360 frown .
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« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2005, 03:43:30 PM »

Quote
Seriously, I understand the original intent of this thread, which is that the leaps and bounds of the 360 are not that different than the newer PC games and video cards. Sure the 360 looks good on an HDTV, and sure some games play and look better on either a PC or 360, but the different is not vast enough that the 360 looks like the second coming.


This sums up my point well. I was really hoping to experience that awe factor that some of my console-only friends are experiencing. Unfortunately AMD and Nvidia ruined it for me.  frown

However, once a system has 5 exclusive games under its banner that I desire, I'll give in and make the purchase.  At the moment the 360 has three games: Kameo, Condemned and Perfect Dark Zero. It shouldn't be too much longer until they hit that magic #5.
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« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2005, 04:38:15 PM »

Quote from: "Vinda-Lou"
Playing ripped dvds on my PSP kicks the asses of both PCs and Xbox360s. biggrin

Seriously, I understand the original intent of this thread, which is that the leaps and bounds of the 360 are not that different than the newer PC games and video cards.  Sure the 360 looks good on an HDTV, and sure some games play and look better on either a PC or 360, but the different is not vast enough that the 360 looks like the second coming.  Being able to play CoD2 or Quake4 on the 360 on a big screen is not enough of an incentive to buy a 360 and all the trappings, when I can play both games on my PC with all the bells and whistles.  

Still, that will all change as the 360 gets more exclusives and my wallet gets more money to buy the 360 frown .


For me PGR3 is enough to warrant the purchase. Yes, it is sad, but I love the series.
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« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2005, 06:36:37 PM »

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For me PGR3 is enough to warrant the purchase. Yes, it is sad, but I love the series.


Me too.  Apparently all great pirates think alike.

Booty, booty, beer, and PGR3.  Yo ho ho a pirates life for me!
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« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2005, 07:44:34 AM »

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I have a AMDX2 4400+, 7800GT SLI system and COD2 looks and runs better on the Xbox 360, end of story.


I'm shocked you think this is true. What type of monitor are you using? On a Mitsubishi DiamondPro 930SB there is a definite advantage over the Xbox 360.  Your system can easily run CoD2 at 1600x1200 w/AA.  But, as you stated, these things can be slightly subjective.


They're definitely subjective. I once asked a friend of mine if Half-Life 2 ran really well on his PC, and he said hell yes it runs awesome.

I got over there, and after playing it at some ridiculous like 75fps on my machine, playing it at 30 fps in a lower resolution felt like a slideshow.

So no offense, but dual 7800GT's running at 39fps is not that impressive. I'd feel totally nonplussed by that framerate. I would define 39fps as really playable, but not smooth. I know it wouldn't feel smooth to me. Kind of like how FEAR runs on my pc right now.

My 6800GT can't even handle CoD2 at 1280x1024 in DX9 mode without slowdown, much less with AA and AF turned on and up, and this was a $400 video card a year ago. That's the price of the entire Xbox 360 in a single video card, and *for me* it's obsolete a year later.

With the 360? You get four years minimum without ever having to touch your hardware. It just plays every game you buy. The games continually get prettier as the developers get more and more time with the hardware. I just don't see a negative to the 360.

Now don't get me wrong here. I like PC gaming too. I like it enough that I'm about 2 or 3 days from building an Athlon 3500+, 2GB ram, SLI 7800GT system. I'm sure I'll be extremely happy with it... for about 6 months until the latest and greatest video cards show up and I'm behind the curve again. At that point I want to throw a fit and break things.

Unfortunately because I pulled the trigger on the PC parts I don't have the cash for a 360, so I'm waiting it out. My plan at the moment is to pick one up sometime early on next year.

This is one of those things where I agree with the positives of both sides. Each platform has entirely different positives and negatives, and both offer things the other does not.

Someday the sheer financial weight of PC gaming will break me and I'll end up resorting to going pure console. I know it's coming. I just haven't gotten there yet. I don't think it'll be more than a year away though. The minute my new rig makes me angry because it can't run a new game at a decent framerate will be the moment I finally give it up and just resort to my couch for all my gaming.

And my bank account will love me for it.
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« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2005, 08:58:59 AM »

I think ThinJ just really really summed up what I am thinking right now. I am disgusted with the prices of video cards. The constant upgrades are driving me nuts. I love FPS on the PC. I love strategy games on the PC. Everything else I am happy to play on a console. I am really struggling not getting a 360-its just getting to the point where it is easier for me.
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