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Author Topic: PC gaming alliance (industry effort)  (Read 2031 times)
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Blackjack
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« on: February 13, 2008, 02:49:01 PM »

Blue's mentioned this San Jose Mercury news item:
http://www.mercurynews.com/columns/ci_8238036
Quote
Companies with a vested interest in keeping the PC alive as a gaming platform will soon announce a consortium dubbed the PC Gaming Alliance. According to two people familiar with the effort, it will include top industry players such as Intel, Microsoft, Nvidia and Advanced Micro Devices as well as a number of computer companies.
If you're like me, you're probably spitting your cornflakes in laughter that companies that are at each others' throats in the marketplace (Intel vs. AMD, NVIDIA vs. ATI [AMD subsidiary now]), and that a company that makes incredibly popular albeit unreliable consoles (Microsoft) and companies supplying hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of GPUs for consoles (NVIDIA for XBox360 and PS3, and ATI/AMD for Wii) would give a) work together towards a common goal and b) give a hoot about PC gaming at this point.

But I can believe the various PC makers, esp. the gaming "boutique" operations, don't want to see PC gaming fade away although "keeping the PC alive" seems just a little histrionic.  stirthepot

I like the concept, but I just don't think this is going to help the industry anymore than the ballyhooed "Games for Windows" branding has done anything for my hobby -- it maybe would if retailers actually wanted to set up "Games for Windows" kiosks but there seems zero interest in that. I don't think companies whose livelihood is so focused on consoles right now are going to put 100% into an alliance idea like this. It just reeks of either hypocrisy or even irony. And this is real irony, not Alanis Morissette irony.  Tongue
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2008, 03:00:28 PM »

So if they form the Alliance, would the console-only folks be the Imperials?
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2008, 04:08:47 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on February 13, 2008, 03:00:28 PM

So if they form the Alliance, would the console-only folks be the Imperials?

does this mean there's going to be a Microsoft Civil War?  The Consolites versus the PC.. PCian...PCer...PCite.... you know, I can't come up with a good label for the PC people.
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2008, 04:23:46 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on February 13, 2008, 04:08:47 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on February 13, 2008, 03:00:28 PM

So if they form the Alliance, would the console-only folks be the Imperials?

does this mean there's going to be a Microsoft Civil War?  The Consolites versus the PC.. PCian...PCer...PCite.... you know, I can't come up with a good label for the PC people.

Elitist Bastards With Money Burning Holes In Their Pocketses My Precious? EBWMBHITPMP for short.
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2008, 04:25:59 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 13, 2008, 04:23:46 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on February 13, 2008, 04:08:47 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on February 13, 2008, 03:00:28 PM

So if they form the Alliance, would the console-only folks be the Imperials?

does this mean there's going to be a Microsoft Civil War?  The Consolites versus the PC.. PCian...PCer...PCite.... you know, I can't come up with a good label for the PC people.

Elitist Bastards With Money Burning Holes In Their Pocketses My Precious? EBWMBHITPMP for short.

that'd be Mac owners.
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2008, 07:26:55 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on February 13, 2008, 02:49:01 PM

If you're like me, you're probably spitting your cornflakes in laughter that companies that are at each others' throats in the marketplace (Intel vs. AMD, NVIDIA vs. ATI [AMD subsidiary now]), and that a company that makes incredibly popular albeit unreliable consoles (Microsoft) and companies supplying hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of GPUs for consoles (NVIDIA for XBox360 and PS3, and ATI/AMD for Wii) would give a) work together towards a common goal and b) give a hoot about PC gaming at this point.

Just a slight correction.  Nvidia did the GPU for the original Xbox, but MS get ATI to do the GPU for the Xbox 360.  That was one of the reasons for the difficulty in backwards compatibility (the other being moving from an Intel chip to a PowerPC chip).
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2008, 07:53:44 PM »

This just sounds like a formal way for MS to get more input for DirectX.
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leo8877
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2008, 08:43:05 PM »

There will be no one to stop us this time!
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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2008, 08:50:49 PM »

What if Apple, Opera, and Google all teamed up to make the PC Gaming Axis?

Axis vs Allies!
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2008, 01:21:53 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on February 13, 2008, 08:50:49 PM

What if Apple, Opera, and Google all teamed up to make the PC Gaming Axis?

Axis vs Allies!

so would Herr Jobs put all of us 'real computer' users into concentration camps?
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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2008, 03:53:42 AM »

i'm wondering how a Windows machine is considered a 'real computer' when it doesn't have this:



(CMD.EXE is neutered MS-DOS!)
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2008, 04:04:23 PM »

It does make sense, I'd probably upgrade my computer a lot less if I didn't game on it.  Nvidia and ATI would certainly have a lot less business if PC gaming goes away.
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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2008, 04:02:49 PM »

Yeah, as much money as they made by designing the console GPUs, they don't own those designs and can't sell new ones every 6 months.

However, I think they shot themselves in the foot by going the 6 month GPU turnaround for PCs since it gave the PC world even more an air of pointlessness in upgrading.

That said, the worldwide success of Crysis is a good sign, even though that's not an amazing success, it does mean high end PC games can still make it.

This alliance does need to find a way to more narrow the gap between PC and console performance though.  The main reasons why cheaper consoles do better than PCs is that they can be optimized for like crazy.

AMD and Intel are adding some new CPU features that help developers better profile the CPU performance to see where the bottlenecks in their code is, but that's only one part of the problem considering there's all sorts of bottlenecks in a PC.
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2008, 04:30:42 PM »

It's official!


this part of the article got me wet:

Quote
The Intel Dual Socket Extreme Desktop Platform includes two quad-core microprocessors, totaling eight-processing engines

 drool drool drool drool
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2008, 06:20:08 PM »

I think their focus will be more towards anti-piracy than all that hardware stuff. And forcing people into vista.
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« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2008, 06:25:20 PM »

Yeah. Great. "Skullrail" will probably cost what all Voodoo brand PCs cost ($5,000).  saywhat How's that going to help the PC gaming industry? Part of the problem is, you can't really ask the average gamer to keep buying $2,000 gaming PCs every other year when a $300-$400 console game now looks as good (in HD in particular) and doesn't suffer all the same compatibility problems. Creating some new 8-core monstrosity and expecting devs to actually develop for it (I doubt you can make a game scalable enough to run on that and a PC like mine) seems like more of a technical exercise than a reality check.

"Skullrail" is fine as far as wet PC dreams go, but it doesn't do a thing to help a fading industry imhwo (humble wet blanket opinion).  disgust

To me it's been something of a conspiracy (sometimes unintentional). The PC hardware makers don't want you to be able to have an affordable $500 gaming PC. The videocard makers don't want you to have to stop buying $250-$600 videocards just to get a playable frame rate. Microsoft doesn't want you to remain happy with Windows XP forever (they'll force you into Vista kicking and screaming, sooner or later); and they couldn't care less if you mothballed your PC and played XBox360 games forever.

Gamers have no problems at all with a non-upgradable XBox360 or PS3, but if you ever broached the subject of "fixed" gaming PCs (so that developers all had one consistent set of PC platform specs to develop for), they would scream bloody murder and say you'll pry customizability from their cold, dead fingers... even while most of them are giving up on PC gaming because they don't want to mess with that crap anymore.  disgust

So I go back to my original cynical-as-hell post, which is that none of these companies really have any valid reason to care about PC gaming's status cause nearly all have their fingers in the console gaming pie. And all would blanche at anything that would make it cheaper for people to play PC games in a way that didn't involve hundreds and thousands of dollars on upgrades. I don't even say that with malice. Only with cold, sad, rationality.  icon_neutral
« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 06:28:12 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2008, 07:11:44 PM »

OMG, this is how Richard Garriot is going to stage his comeback: making more games nobody will ever be able to play until five years after release!
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« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2008, 10:02:30 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on February 20, 2008, 06:25:20 PM

Yeah. Great. "Skullrail" will probably cost what all Voodoo brand PCs cost ($5,000).  saywhat How's that going to help the PC gaming industry? Part of the problem is, you can't really ask the average gamer to keep buying $2,000 gaming PCs every other year when a $300-$400 console game now looks as good (in HD in particular) and doesn't suffer all the same compatibility problems. Creating some new 8-core monstrosity and expecting devs to actually develop for it (I doubt you can make a game scalable enough to run on that and a PC like mine) seems like more of a technical exercise than a reality check.

"Skullrail" is fine as far as wet PC dreams go, but it doesn't do a thing to help a fading industry imhwo (humble wet blanket opinion).  disgust

To me it's been something of a conspiracy (sometimes unintentional). The PC hardware makers don't want you to be able to have an affordable $500 gaming PC. The videocard makers don't want you to have to stop buying $250-$600 videocards just to get a playable frame rate. Microsoft doesn't want you to remain happy with Windows XP forever (they'll force you into Vista kicking and screaming, sooner or later); and they couldn't care less if you mothballed your PC and played XBox360 games forever.

Gamers have no problems at all with a non-upgradable XBox360 or PS3, but if you ever broached the subject of "fixed" gaming PCs (so that developers all had one consistent set of PC platform specs to develop for), they would scream bloody murder and say you'll pry customizability from their cold, dead fingers... even while most of them are giving up on PC gaming because they don't want to mess with that crap anymore.  disgust

So I go back to my original cynical-as-hell post, which is that none of these companies really have any valid reason to care about PC gaming's status cause nearly all have their fingers in the console gaming pie. And all would blanche at anything that would make it cheaper for people to play PC games in a way that didn't involve hundreds and thousands of dollars on upgrades. I don't even say that with malice. Only with cold, sad, rationality.  icon_neutral
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« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2008, 05:40:19 PM »

This msnbc item spoke to me:

Is PC gaming dying? Or thriving?
You don't hear much about PC games lately, except 'World of Warcraft'
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23800152
Actually, what spoke to me was this:
Quote
You’re not going to be able to play “Crysis” on that four-year-old Compaq Presario you’re rocking

OMG! How did she know I'm "rocking" (wheezing?) on a four-year-old Compaq Presario! (I really am. Sad. See below. disgust)


It is basically true though. If pundits want to say PC gaming's thriving (in terms of PC-specific titles) they point to WoW, The Sims, and that's about it (if they pay attention to current sales, they might mention Sins of a Solar Empire). If they want to say it's dying, they omit WoW, The Sims etc. and say, "LOOK!!!! DOOM!!!" icon_neutral
« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 05:42:34 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2008, 07:24:17 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on February 20, 2008, 06:25:20 PM

you can't really ask the average gamer to keep buying $2,000 gaming PCs every other year when a $300-$400 console game now looks as good (in HD in particular) and doesn't suffer all the same compatibility problems.

I'm primarily a PC gamer, and I don't spend anywhere near that.  Here's a tip- your speed in games relies more on your video card than your processor, so there's no reason to buy a new PC every year.  Unless you want to, that is.

My computer wasn't bleeding edge when I got it, I spent about $1200 for the entire setup over two years ago.  I recently just replaced my video card, and now it's running every game at max video settings.  It's not even close to having any fps issues.

Not only that, but the only reason I purchased this last PC was because my old computer didnt have a PCIe slot.  So the only thing driving me to get a new PC would be a change in the technology (and had I wanted to do it, I could have just replaced the mobo, memory, CPU, and video card instead of getting an entirely new PC).

So really, I've never seen that statement hold much water (you weren't the first to make it).

However, I think the big problem with PC gaming is the huge amount of crap hardware out there.  A lot of people aren't tech savvy, and end up buying things which look good on paper, but the reason they are getting that PC for $300 is because there isn't a part in it which cost the manufacturer over $10, and it's all off-brand crap.  No wonder Vista runs like shit on it, they paid some dude $15, a bottle of tequila, and a hooker so he would write their driver over a weekend.

It's because of that I think the PC industry has to really start moving more toward "reference" PC designs.


As for the WoW thing... I really think the PC gaming industry is giving up.  Not because they can't make money, but because they find it easier to do so on consoles.  Also, it seems like there is a whole lot of "WoW Envy", which is why every publisher was looking to make an MMOG.  They had no idea what an MMOG was, but by golly, Blizzard made one and it was making a ton of money, so they gotta have an MMOG too!!  Obviously WoW is successful just because it's an MMOG, not because it's superior to most other games!

So look at the games that DID succeed.  Bioshock made money... and that was multi-platform.  Sins of a Solar Empire made money (and lots of it, from what I've heard).  We gotta have something to do when WoW is down, LOL!

But then again, I'm an older dude.  I've been hearing "OMG TEH PC IS DED!!!" over and over and over for over a decade already.  And yet oddly, it keeps hanging on and thriving.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 07:30:30 PM by unbreakable » Logged
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« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2008, 12:41:27 AM »

Quote from: Blackjack on March 27, 2008, 05:40:19 PM

This msnbc item spoke to me:

Is PC gaming dying? Or thriving?
You don't hear much about PC games lately, except 'World of Warcraft'
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23800152
Actually, what spoke to me was this:
Quote
You’re not going to be able to play “Crysis” on that four-year-old Compaq Presario you’re rocking

OMG! How did she know I'm "rocking" (wheezing?) on a four-year-old Compaq Presario! (I really am. Sad. See below. disgust)

Compaq?

Presario?

eeeeeeeewwwwwww........

were they sold out of Macs?

 Tongue
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« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2008, 02:10:05 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 27, 2008, 07:24:17 PM

No wonder Vista runs like shit on it, they paid some dude $15, a bottle of tequila, and a hooker so he would write their driver over a weekend.

Well, to be fair, it was a good bottle of tequila...
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« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2008, 06:17:01 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on March 28, 2008, 02:10:05 AM

Quote from: unbreakable on March 27, 2008, 07:24:17 PM

No wonder Vista runs like shit on it, they paid some dude $15, a bottle of tequila, and a hooker so he would write their driver over a weekend.

Well, to be fair, it was a good bottle of tequila...

Cuervo is NOT good tequila.
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