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Author Topic: Panzer Tactics DS  (Read 6598 times)
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ATB
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« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2007, 02:22:58 PM »

Well, I consider AW:DS the best TBS of all time, but I have no idea what those guns are. Where's that leave me!?  icon_smile
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« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2007, 02:51:02 PM »

It leaves you somewhere near me, I would guess. 

I love the Advance Wars series and have played every one from start to finish.  But, I think the target audience for Panzer Tactics is someone who loves realism and deep, deep turn-based wargaming.

Here's another example.  A few weeks ago, I read a forum post where the poster, applauding Panzer Tactics' potential superiority over other military sims, said something to this effect: "I've waited years for a turn-based military sim that uses a hex-based map instead of the grid crap!  That really opens things up in terms of strategy."

I'm not certain what that means.  But I do know that the hexes used in Panzer Tactics are not exciting to me.  In fact, had I not read that post, I don't know that I would have ever thought about them at all. 

Again, I believe that people who enjoy deep, realistic military sims or historic wargaming will love Panzer Tactics.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 02:53:25 PM by Frogstar » Logged
Lee
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« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2007, 03:21:59 PM »

I am hoping it's not like Adavaned Wars at all. AW has a puzzle feel to it, you need the right commander with the right units done in the correct sequence to win it. I am hoping for a more free form game where there is no right way to finish a mission.

Quote from: Frogstar on November 12, 2007, 02:51:02 PM

Here's another example.  A few weeks ago, I read a forum post where the poster, applauding Panzer Tactics' potential superiority over other military sims, said something to this effect: "I've waited years for a turn-based military sim that uses a hex-based map instead of the grid crap!  That really opens things up in terms of strategy."

I'm not certain what that means.  But I do know that the hexes used in Panzer Tactics are not exciting to me.  In fact, had I not read that post, I don't know that I would have ever thought about them at all.

Hexes provide a more realistic movement than squares is all. It takes 2 steps to move diagonal in a square based system compared to 1 for a hex system for example. Any serious wargame uses hexes. I still doubt that this game is too indepth, but hopefully it's a a good Panzer General II knock off.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 03:26:05 PM by Lee » Logged
Frogstar
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« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2007, 04:07:46 PM »

Lee,

It seems pretty free-form in terms of how you complete missions.  I say that because there are lots of different units to recruit in a mission right from the start.  And because even the early missions use big battlefields with many cities to capture (compared to the ones in AW).  So, it seems likes there's lots of room for strategy.

In terms of depth, I never played Panzer General II (that's a classic, right?)  I don't know how PT:DS would hold up to that one, but it still seems very deep to me. Especially when you factor in multiplayer.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 04:12:56 PM by Frogstar » Logged
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« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2007, 04:20:40 PM »

What sucks is that this is a game I'd at least love to pick up down the line when the price drops--something which will never happen for this game.
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« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2007, 07:05:59 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on November 12, 2007, 04:20:40 PM

What sucks is that this is a game I'd at least love to pick up down the line when the price drops--something which will never happen for this game.

It will probably disappear off the shelves before it drops...
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wonderpug
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« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2007, 07:14:34 PM »

Quote from: ATB on November 12, 2007, 07:05:59 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on November 12, 2007, 04:20:40 PM

What sucks is that this is a game I'd at least love to pick up down the line when the price drops--something which will never happen for this game.

It will probably disappear off the shelves before it drops...

You might even say that a later price drop is something which will never happen for this game...
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Godzilla Blitz
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« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2007, 09:11:04 PM »

I grabbed this and Front Mission last night at Gamestop.

I played the first two tutorial missions of Panzer Tactics and was struck by how similar the game is to Panzer General I. There seem to be some additional features (officers, for one) that were never in PG I, but 90% of the gameplay elements seem to be identical. Maybe I'll feel differently as I play through more of the tutorial and more features are introduced.

This is not a bad thing, as Panzer General is a great game. It just caught me offguard. I wasn't expecting more, but I was expecting something a bit different.

I wouldn't let the hardcore nature of the game scare people away. Panzer General was more often dropped into the Beer & Pretzels category of wargame, and this seems much the same.

I'm wondering how they handle the campaign scenarios in this one. IMHO, one of the best elements of the Panzer General series was its branching campaign. The location of your next battle depended on how well you did in your current battle, and as the Germans you could end the game anywhere from capturing Washington D.C. to fighting for your life in Berlin. I hope the DS version has the same draw.

I'm going to keep playing and see how things go, but to be honest, if I had a preference, I'd rather play a game like this on a large screen. Last night, playing Panzer Tactics kept making me want to reload Panzer General on my PC.
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« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2007, 10:24:06 PM »

I loved Panzer General and even the more flawed Allied General, and I've been distraught I can't seem to get People's General or Panzer General 3-D Assault to run in XP (at least not on my system, regardless of compatibility modes). So, your impressions so far are like music to my ears. smile

Speaking of Panzer General, ooooh that a turn-based hex wargame could battle the likes of X-COM, Doom, Tie-Fighter and System Shock (1994 was a very good year, as they say) for Game of the Year, though mostly the awards went to X-COM and Doom II (some mags considered Doom a 1994 title). *cue weepy nostalgic music* Oh wait, I'm in the wrong section for that kind of nostalgia. Never mind.  tear
« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 10:33:05 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2007, 12:38:53 AM »

Quote from: wonderpug on November 12, 2007, 02:22:18 PM

Hmm, seems like it might be a pass for me after all.  It sounds like one of those TBS games where I get too bogged down in learning the details that I forget to have fun, and I end up setting it aside before I really understand how to play.  Advance Wars: Days of Ruin, here I come!

Wonderpug I seriously doubt that you would get bogged down in this game.  It is basically a direct copy of Panzer General, the game that defined 'beer 'n' pretzels' wargaming.

Quote from: Frogstar on November 12, 2007, 02:17:30 PM

So, if you like that type of game (serious military sims with lots of units, unit data, terrain parameters, etc.), you'll probably love Panzer Tactics. 

Here's a test. The following are some of the German Antitank units in the game: "5 cm PaK 38," "Sturmgeschutz III," "JagdPanther," and "8.8 cm AT Gun."  If (1) you like turn-based strategy games (or loved Advance Wars); and (2) that lists excites you, then you'll probably really like Panzer Tactics DS.  But I'm not a military history buff, so none of those units mean anything to me.     


Well I think I know the answer to that question.  The first and the last are normal anti-tank guns and the second and third are self-propelled anti-tank guns.  and the 88 is way more powerful then the 5cm Pak.  Know I suppose I have a little military knowledge to know that but I'm no grog.  And I think I would easily be able to tell the difference if I had no idea what those were.  I mean, when you're buying units there's probably a little picture isn't there?  Something so you could tell whether or not it was self-propelled or not?  And obviously (usually) the more expensive the unit the more powerful it's going to be.  So already, somebody with no military knowledge already knows the same thing that I know.
I would highly recommend people to try this game.  I couldn't stand AW with those annoying fucking kids!  Just completely ruined it for me!  Again this game is basically a direct copy of Panzer General and PG was the game that got me over the hump and gently introduced me to the wide world of wargaming.! smile
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« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2007, 02:30:48 AM »

Canuck's right--you can figure out the relative strengths of the units just by looking at them. 

But my point wasn't that it's impossible to tell what those different AT units are within the game.  There are pictures.  And numbers.  And costs.  I was only speaking to the realism factor. 

Some people might look at those units and think, "cool, I can buy this self-propelled anti-tank gun that the Germans used for the first time in the Battle of Blah Blah Blah."  While others (like me) might not care much about those details.

Again, if you like historical military sims, turn-based strategy, big maps, and lots of units, you'll probably really like this game.  It seems like a great game.  But it isn't my style.
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« Reply #51 on: November 13, 2007, 02:36:59 AM »

Seems like my kind of game. I'll have to pick it up sometime.
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« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2007, 03:35:48 AM »

Here are some impressions I stole from Gamefaqs from a seemingly very mature poster-if only there were more of those over there! Also, one of the developers of the game is responding to questions in one of the threads (Beat the developer) or something like that.

Quote
Iíve gotten as far as the last scenario in the German Campaign (Stalingrad) and based on what I seen so far I can confidently say the Panzer Tactics is an awesome game. In almost all facets it has exceeded my expectations of what I could have expected for a turned based WWII wargame on the DS. This is not to say that the game doesnít have some flaws (the non-historical tank release dates and their associated data, more on this in a separate post). However, this does not detract from the game play and I think they did a good job with their other unit choices. The game mechanics are good and they have made some significant improvements on this aspect compared to its closest relative, the original Panzer General (PG). I will also say that from my perspective the mechanics make the gameplay superior to Advance Wars (AW). Now that will get me in trouble with the AW people (Iím a big fan of those games as well). But I come from the original cardboard counters days.

A quick comment of what I wonít talk about. Sound, I never play with in on and so I couldnít care less. Also, Iím not preoccupied with graphics, functionality is what I want.

Some general comments on the differences from AW (improvements from a wargame perspective). I saw criticism that the maps were too big and there were too many units. Compared to AW this is partially true. The maps are bigger. However, the number of units is comparable and less than some AW battles. From my perspective this is a plus for PT as the lower unit density allows for greater mobility and the opportunity to maneuver. This is one of the real operational advantages in warfare. The use of support fire is an advantage over AW. I donít expect to hear people discussing meat shields in PT. The campaigns are real campaigns with units moving from one battle to the next. Gone are the god-like CO powers, super CO powers and Tags of AW. I always though they were overpowering. PT does have mechanisms that allow players to gain limited local advantages. The officers, special unit abilities and commandos are very nice additions. They are costly and localized but they can allow a wise player to gain a critical advantage at the point of attack. AW does have more battles to fight and a map/battle editor; these are pluses for AW from a replay issue.

A few more general comments. PT is fundamentally different from both PG and AW in that One Hit Knockouts (OHKOs) or overstrengthed (PG) units no longer decimate all they encounter. Without the initiative mechanic from PG or the attacker fires first in AW, both sides tend to take damage. This wears down an attacker over time as it should. This forces stops for supplies and reinforcements that are now separate functions (in PG reinforcing also supplied). Supply also now costs money. Destroying units require coordination. This game definitely requires that a successful player use combined arms. Air superiority is essential, and with the movement distances and limited visibility reconnaissance is important.

In a separate post Iíll discuss the unit interplay which is mostly good. Iíll also discuss the biggest flaw in the game, the non-historical release dates and performance data for the tank units.

All in all a great game so far. Unless further play changes my mind the best game ever for the DS.

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« Reply #53 on: November 13, 2007, 04:33:53 AM »

Quote from: Canuck on November 13, 2007, 12:38:53 AM

Quote from: wonderpug on November 12, 2007, 02:22:18 PM

Hmm, seems like it might be a pass for me after all.  It sounds like one of those TBS games where I get too bogged down in learning the details that I forget to have fun, and I end up setting it aside before I really understand how to play.  Advance Wars: Days of Ruin, here I come!

Wonderpug I seriously doubt that you would get bogged down in this game.  It is basically a direct copy of Panzer General, the game that defined 'beer 'n' pretzels' wargaming.

Oh I'm still tempted, definitely still tempted. smile

Quote
I couldn't stand AW with those annoying fucking kids!  Just completely ruined it for me!
Make sure you check out the new Advance Wars in January!  They threw out all the old characters and moved the kiddie/mature slider closer to the mature side with the new characters and the post apocalyptic look.
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« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2007, 01:15:38 AM »

I'm not far into it, but I like it.

Can someone tell me how to embark onto a plane?  Can I embark more than one unit on a plane at a time?

I embark one- then it turns into a plane and I want to embark the other guy. Can I do that?

Also, how do you bomb an airport. Yes I'm on the 2nd tutorial mission and I'm stuck.
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« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2007, 03:52:28 AM »

If the unit actually changes into a plane then I would suspect (never having actually played the game yet) that each unit boards individually.  Do you have to be adjacent to an airport to board or actually on the airport tile?  If the latter then you would have to wait to move the unit that you just embarked and then move the new unit onto that position.  Again I'm just guessing here as I've never actually seen the game.
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« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2007, 01:03:17 PM »

Quote from: Canuck on November 14, 2007, 03:52:28 AM

If the unit actually changes into a plane then I would suspect (never having actually played the game yet) that each unit boards individually.  Do you have to be adjacent to an airport to board or actually on the airport tile?  If the latter then you would have to wait to move the unit that you just embarked and then move the new unit onto that position.  Again I'm just guessing here as I've never actually seen the game.

You were absolutely correct.
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« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2007, 04:08:13 PM »

Ok. I've played through the third tutorial mission 3 times now and it's beginning to click.  I like the way the units behave and that you have to account for support fire from other hexes.  It really makes you coordinate your attacks.

It's not perfect- I'd really like to be able to tell how to quickly see what the enemies firing/travel ranges are a la advance wars, but right now it's starting to work for me. icon_cool
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« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2007, 12:56:02 PM »

Ok. The game is really really good. Very deep.  Very involved.

I've played through the first campaign mission a couple of times and I am really enjoying the complexity of managing mixed units and probing the enemy for weak spots.

The second mission seems to really amp up the scale quite a bit- I'd have liked another smaller mission before doing a full scale invasion- and I'm not sure yet how I'll do it.

However, I bet this game would be an absolute hoot in MP.

Anyone who has this wanna give a match a go some time? Let's exchange friend codes and maybe we can get a game together.

Overall- after all the training missions and one campaign mission- this game is definitely a thumbs up. thumbsup
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« Reply #59 on: November 15, 2007, 03:16:59 PM »

I'm up for it sometime-but first I have to get my copy from America and play through the tutorial and whatnot although if it's as similar to Panzer General as I think it is then it should be a breeze.
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« Reply #60 on: November 15, 2007, 07:06:42 PM »

When I purchase a new unit, can I only place it at the locations I start with? I thought I'd be able to place them into any town that I own but such is not the case...

Am I doing something wrong?
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« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2007, 12:04:17 AM »

I suppose you have to place them in your starting cities?  I can't remember how PG did it.  It sorta makes sense though, I mean, how are you going to raise a new army in a city that you've just conquered?  That would be like the US expecting Iraq to spontaneously recruit an army after they had just conquered it.  Ridiculous isn't it? smile
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« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2007, 01:40:07 PM »

This game has got me. Was up until 1:15 last night trying to finish the 2nd campaign mission.   thumbsup
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« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2007, 03:01:16 PM »

Sweet I'm looking forward to playing it.  I just got notice that my copy shipped from America today.  I'll be up for multiplayer anytime when I get it.  Perhaps this game will open your eyes to the wide world of wargaming? smile
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« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2007, 03:11:11 PM »

Quote from: Canuck on November 16, 2007, 03:01:16 PM

Sweet I'm looking forward to playing it.  I just got notice that my copy shipped from America today.  I'll be up for multiplayer anytime when I get it.  Perhaps this game will open your eyes to the wide world of wargaming? smile

I'm not exactly a stranger, but I've always prefered lighter TBS games.  This is one neat experience thus far.

I don't see the point of hex grids vs squares (I don't have a preference) but I'm not sure why people either hate or love them (hexes).

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« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2007, 03:26:41 PM »

I'm not exactly sure why either.  I do know that most people prefer hex grid though and detest squares.  A square can only be attacked from four different sides whereas a hex can be attacked from six.  There are more reasons as well but I'm not exactly sure what they are.
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« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2007, 06:09:12 PM »

I traded in some PSP titles and picked this up at lunch.

The Gamestop clerk gave me printouts of upcoming DS and PSP titles. fwiw, the "new look" (it's cel-shaded, somewhat like the Ubisoft shooter XIII from a few years ago) Advance Wars: Days of Ruin (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/10/15/joystiq-hands-on-advance-wars-days-of-ruin-ds/) is listed as Jan. 21. The DS version of Warhammer 40K: Squad Command seems set for Dec. 17. I didn't see much else turn-based as far as DS stuff. There's something called "Drone Tactics" April 2, but I couldn't find any info on it yet.  icon_confused

As far as grids, there was a much maligned PC game called Odium (turn-based, soldiers vs. invading alien bugs) that I liked in the late 1990s. It used a square, checkerboard like grid. The problem was you couldn't find weapons diagonally in most cases, and that really turned people off (it was meant to encourage you to use a variety of weapons, but it just seemed goofy).

I just like the hexagon idea cause it brings back some fond memories of beer 'n pretzel type wargames I was really fond of in the mid 1990s. smile I think on a larger scale type strategy game it helps make diagonal movement/attack a little more graceful, but I'm not a big defender.
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« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2007, 06:42:22 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on November 16, 2007, 06:09:12 PM

I traded in some PSP titles and picked this up at lunch.

The Gamestop clerk gave me printouts of upcoming DS and PSP titles. fwiw, the "new look" (it's cel-shaded, somewhat like the Ubisoft shooter XIII from a few years ago) Advance Wars: Days of Ruin (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/10/15/joystiq-hands-on-advance-wars-days-of-ruin-ds/) is listed as Jan. 21. The DS version of Warhammer 40K: Squad Command seems set for Dec. 17. I didn't see much else turn-based as far as DS stuff. There's something called "Drone Tactics" April 2, but I couldn't find any info on it yet.  icon_confused

As far as grids, there was a much maligned PC game called Odium (turn-based, soldiers vs. invading alien bugs) that I liked in the late 1990s. It used a square, checkerboard like grid. The problem was you couldn't find weapons diagonally in most cases, and that really turned people off (it was meant to encourage you to use a variety of weapons, but it just seemed goofy).

I just like the hexagon idea cause it brings back some fond memories of beer 'n pretzel type wargames I was really fond of in the mid 1990s. smile I think on a larger scale type strategy game it helps make diagonal movement/attack a little more graceful, but I'm not a big defender.

AD:DR is my most anticipated game for 2008 right now.  Can't wait.  I hope to have played through AW2: Black Hole Rising by then.
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« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2007, 02:44:52 PM »

I played some Panzer Tactics tutorials last night. The hex grid feels almost too tiny at first, but within a few minutes, it really did feel like I was playing a ____ General game on a teeny weeny PC.  icon_cool I do wish some of the tiny control icons were explained somewhere on the interface via pop-up text (some of them are like supposedly universal traffic symbols - I can't for the life of me understand what they indicate without reading the manual).  icon_confused

Combat animations are very brisk (unlike Advance Wars they're semi-realistic looking and from a bit of a distance). I don't think this is one of those games where people will be desperate to turn them off. smile

Bunkers are one of the units (I assume you can't move them) and if you don't approach them properly, they're tough to get through.
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« Reply #69 on: November 20, 2007, 08:24:17 AM »

My copy of the game is arriving tonight! It came this afternoon but I was out so they're going to send it again.  Unfortunately my girlfriend has my DS! But at least I can read the manual!
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« Reply #70 on: November 21, 2007, 11:58:19 PM »

Ok I've got the game and I've just set up the wireless connection.  It connects ok to the wireless but then it tries to update the game and I get an error.  I get....ooh oops! It works now!
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« Reply #71 on: November 22, 2007, 09:06:15 AM »

Well the game is looking pretty good so far! I'm still just going through the tutorials.  But the online part absolutely sucks.  The online community is small enough as it is but their poor implementation of matchmaking just kills any chance that it ever had.  Basically, if I'm understanding correctly, instead of finding an opponent and creating a game, you create a game and then try to match up with an opponent!  But the only way you'll be able to match is if you have the exact same game options!!!  That's just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard and I think it will completely kill the multiplayer (unless you are playing with friends).
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« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2007, 01:53:57 PM »

I started the German campaign last night. Although the first mission is mostly a cakewalk, beware of over-reaching with your Blitzkrieg.  paranoid
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« Reply #73 on: November 22, 2007, 05:58:06 PM »

Still haven't seen this one in stores.  icon_evil
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« Reply #74 on: November 23, 2007, 12:17:52 PM »

So basically only ATB, Godzilla Blitz, BlackJack and myself have the game?  Frogstar has it but it isn't his cup of tea. That's disappointing.  I was hoping more people would be getting this game.  I just finished the tutorials and am loving it right now.  FAR better than Age of Empires ever was.  Considering how shit the online matchmaking portion is it will be difficult to get much of an online community going I think.  Perhaps if more people get the game we could set up a Panzer Tactics ladder! smile
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« Reply #75 on: November 23, 2007, 07:00:49 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on November 22, 2007, 01:53:57 PM

I started the German campaign last night. Although the first mission is mostly a cakewalk, beware of over-reaching with your Blitzkrieg.  paranoid

I did this too. Even lost a unit, thankfully just a white flagged one though.

The second mission really is a massive change of pace from the first though. Prepare yourself.

And don't let the start of the third mission in the axis campaign fool you, pay close attention to the map before you start choosing where to deploy your stuff.

Also: scout cars, scout cars, SCOUT CARS. Use them. Lots.
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« Reply #76 on: November 23, 2007, 08:23:34 PM »

Has anyone purchased an officer yet? If so, on what mission did you finally have enough to get one? I've restarted the German campaign to try to be more efficient with my points, but the Os are SO expensive.
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Canuck
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« Reply #77 on: November 23, 2007, 11:34:04 PM »

How did you do in the first mission by the way?  I managed to capture all the cities in 9 days without losing a unit.  I don't think I bought a unit either.  I was rewarded 3500 fame points for a total of about 4600.
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« Reply #78 on: November 24, 2007, 03:00:35 AM »

Quote from: Canuck on November 23, 2007, 11:34:04 PM

How did you do in the first mission by the way?  I managed to capture all the cities in 9 days without losing a unit.  I don't think I bought a unit either.  I was rewarded 3500 fame points for a total of about 4600.

I think I've had as high as 5500 after the first mission. but I could be misremembering.
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Canuck
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« Reply #79 on: November 24, 2007, 04:31:24 AM »

By the way ATB, if you really like this type of game then I highly recommend checking out Matrix Games' Commander: Europe at War.  And by 'check out' I mean buy, since Matrix Games has their terrible no demo policy.  However if you're a fan of Panzer Tactics or Panzer General then I can pretty much guarantee that you will like this game.  It's slightly more complex (research is involved) and there are supply rules (cutting off an enemy means cutting of their supply) but it's still a really great 'beer 'n' pretzels' type game.  As the name suggests it's on a slightly larger scale (all of Europe) but the gameplay is still exactly the same.  One change I really love is the realistic oil supply.  Basically all of your units (except infantry) consume oil.  So if you build up a serious armoured force then you are going to be begging for oil.  And you can't just magically turn fame points into oil either.  The only way to get it is to capture oil fields.  Which means that as the Germans, instead of driving straight to Moscow as you might in any other game, you may choose to make a stab for the oil rich areas of Caucasus.  Or maybe try what Hitler did and try to accomplish both at once!
Anyways if you're looking for something more after finishing PT and you're not quite ready to dive into War in the Pacific then I highly recommend CEAW.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 04:33:08 AM by Canuck » Logged
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