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Author Topic: Orbis. aka PlayStation 4? The rumors are put to rest.  (Read 72884 times)
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« Reply #2080 on: January 14, 2014, 07:11:49 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on January 14, 2014, 02:03:46 PM

Quote from: Purge on January 14, 2014, 11:44:32 AM

Quote from: forgeforsaken on January 14, 2014, 05:33:34 AM

I fail to see how Sony set things back when they offer a digital version day one with the disk release for pretty much every game on PS4.


Those game licenses are non-transferrable. Basically, Sony failed to innovate, and when their competition tried, they managed to score a fatal hit rather than letting MS stumble on their own.

Remember Sony's online strategy with the PS2? XBL was needed for them to step up. Then PSN+ came out with better discounts and the competitive nature flip flopped.

Their innovation seems to be with PS Now.  To answer one of your questions from a previous post, yes your save games (which are all automatically saved in the cloud) will work.  It's kind of the whole point.

Additionally, if the subscription service works the way it seems like it will, it is absolutely BC.  BC is being able to play the old games on the new system.  That's what PS Now is delivering.  You're just paying for the privilege.  As someone who finds BC important, but knowing that others couldn't care less, I'm okay with that.

So how do I get my Neir BD to transfer to play on a remote Bravia TV via PSNow? :?

BC means backwards compatibility, FWIW - not access to re-buy what I already have. The only way I could see that working is if I had to have the game in my PS3, hooked up to PSNow, which then allowed me to run the game off their own cloud version by verifying ownership over the Internet.
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« Reply #2081 on: January 14, 2014, 07:50:22 PM »

Quote from: Purge on January 14, 2014, 07:11:49 PM

BC means backwards compatibility, FWIW - not access to re-buy what I already have.

I get what you're saying, but plenty of people said the Wii had the most ultimate backwards compatibility because it could play games from so many older consoles, even though you did have to pay for them.
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« Reply #2082 on: January 14, 2014, 08:19:39 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on January 14, 2014, 07:50:22 PM

Quote from: Purge on January 14, 2014, 07:11:49 PM

BC means backwards compatibility, FWIW - not access to re-buy what I already have.

I get what you're saying, but plenty of people said the Wii had the most ultimate backwards compatibility because it could play games from so many older consoles, even though you did have to pay for them.

I interpret backwards compatibility to mean "games from earlier systems can be played on the newer system." I'd wager that that is a more accurate and complete interpretation than "I can play games I own from an earlier system on the newer system". The attribute of ownership isn't explicitly called out, it's an assumption on your part, Purge.
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« Reply #2083 on: January 14, 2014, 11:09:13 PM »

Quote from: Purge on January 14, 2014, 07:11:49 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on January 14, 2014, 02:03:46 PM

Quote from: Purge on January 14, 2014, 11:44:32 AM

Quote from: forgeforsaken on January 14, 2014, 05:33:34 AM

I fail to see how Sony set things back when they offer a digital version day one with the disk release for pretty much every game on PS4.


Those game licenses are non-transferrable. Basically, Sony failed to innovate, and when their competition tried, they managed to score a fatal hit rather than letting MS stumble on their own.

Remember Sony's online strategy with the PS2? XBL was needed for them to step up. Then PSN+ came out with better discounts and the competitive nature flip flopped.

Their innovation seems to be with PS Now.  To answer one of your questions from a previous post, yes your save games (which are all automatically saved in the cloud) will work.  It's kind of the whole point.

Additionally, if the subscription service works the way it seems like it will, it is absolutely BC.  BC is being able to play the old games on the new system.  That's what PS Now is delivering.  You're just paying for the privilege.  As someone who finds BC important, but knowing that others couldn't care less, I'm okay with that.

So how do I get my Neir BD to transfer to play on a remote Bravia TV via PSNow? :?

BC means backwards compatibility, FWIW - not access to re-buy what I already have. The only way I could see that working is if I had to have the game in my PS3, hooked up to PSNow, which then allowed me to run the game off their own cloud version by verifying ownership over the Internet.

You're not rebuying what you already have.  You are paying a fee for the ability to play these games on the new system.  That fee, as we understand it, can be in the form of a subscription or a per-game charge. 

So, assuming Nier is one of the titles that gets into the PS Now lineup (which admittedly is a big assumption, but even the best BC systems in the past had holes in their compatibility), you would make sure your save is in the cloud (which would happen automatically if you set up your PS3 to do it) then either subscribe to the service or pay a fee then access PS Now (however that happens) and pick up your game from where you left off.  Magic.

Of course, what that fee will be is still up in the air and is reportedly part of the beta process that's starting soon.  The fee could be outrageous or it could be reasonable.  It might even be ridiculous when tied in with PS+.  Given Sony's recent trends and their clear desire to make PS Now A THINGTM, I suspect the latter will be the case, but time will tell.
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« Reply #2084 on: January 15, 2014, 12:37:25 AM »

If you want to compare apples to oranges, good for you. BC has meant the ability to play your old games on your new system. PS3Phat60GB did it, older PS3 emulated it, and 360 did too (select titles).

Wii *was* BC to GC.

Stuff you rebuy is a rerelease. It isn't compatibility, its programmed on the new platform. So opinion on that is pretty open/closed on that - BC is new being set up to use old, not reselling old on new.
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« Reply #2085 on: January 15, 2014, 01:30:29 AM »

Newly made up word not as solidly defined as older words.  News at eleven.
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« Reply #2086 on: January 15, 2014, 01:52:46 AM »

Quote from: Purge on January 15, 2014, 12:37:25 AM

If you want to compare apples to oranges, good for you. BC has meant the ability to play your old games on your new system. PS3Phat60GB did it, older PS3 emulated it, and 360 did too (select titles).

Wii *was* BC to GC.

Stuff you rebuy is a rerelease. It isn't compatibility, its programmed on the new platform. So opinion on that is pretty open/closed on that - BC is new being set up to use old, not reselling old on new.

Again, it's not programmed to the new platform.  Unless the platform you're referring to is PS Now. 

When PS3 ran PS2 games, they were souped up versions that had been mildly tweaked to run on the new platform.  This will not be that.

The reason those other systems were able to provide put-the-disc-in BC is that they had hardware that was compatible to the previous generation.  This was not possible in as straightforward a manner this go round (apparently). 

Microsoft literally insulted anyone who wanted BC.  Sony has made something potentially extraordinary happen.  It could be a fantastic, mutually beneficial thing that changes the way we're doing console gaming.  Or it could be a cash grab that fails because it's a cash grab.  But they're reaching out and making something happen despite everyone saying that it could not possibly happen for any of the new consoles this year.

To repeat, they couldn't do it physically.  A lot of people didn't care.  Some of us did.  Sony made it happen anyway using new technology that they paid a bundle for and have undoubtedly spent even more money refining and are going to be running servers for the service.  It shouldn't be a surprise that there may be a fee involved in making this happen.

Someone asked me a while back when I was ranting about the lack of BC this gen if I would be willing to pay for an add-on device to make it happen.  I said I would for sure, since I get that not everyone has an interest in it, and there is an expense to making it happen (either in the form of hardware or paying people to force compatibility) and that expense seems to not be worth it to MS or Sony for selling their systems.

It's not apples to oranges when the end result is exactly the same: those of us who want to play older games on our newer consoles will soon be able to so AND continue right where we left off. 
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« Reply #2087 on: January 15, 2014, 02:06:25 AM »

Quote from: Purge on January 15, 2014, 12:37:25 AM

If you want to compare apples to oranges, good for you. BC has meant the ability to play your old games on your new system. PS3Phat60GB did it, older PS3 emulated it, and 360 did too (select titles).

Wii *was* BC to GC.

Stuff you rebuy is a rerelease. It isn't compatibility, its programmed on the new platform. So opinion on that is pretty open/closed on that - BC is new being set up to use old, not reselling old on new.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backward_compatibility

"In telecommunications and computing, a product or technology is backward or downward compatible if it can work with input generated by an older product or technology."

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« Reply #2088 on: January 15, 2014, 02:59:18 AM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on January 15, 2014, 02:06:25 AM

Quote from: Purge on January 15, 2014, 12:37:25 AM

If you want to compare apples to oranges, good for you. BC has meant the ability to play your old games on your new system. PS3Phat60GB did it, older PS3 emulated it, and 360 did too (select titles).

Wii *was* BC to GC.

Stuff you rebuy is a rerelease. It isn't compatibility, its programmed on the new platform. So opinion on that is pretty open/closed on that - BC is new being set up to use old, not reselling old on new.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backward_compatibility

"In telecommunications and computing, a product or technology is backward or downward compatible if it can work with input generated by an older product or technology."

It's not generated by an older product or technology, it's generated by brand new technology. The content may be old, but what generates the content is new  Tongue
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 03:01:53 AM by Ridah » Logged

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« Reply #2089 on: January 15, 2014, 03:12:38 AM »

Quote from: Ridah on January 15, 2014, 02:59:18 AM

Quote from: th'FOOL on January 15, 2014, 02:06:25 AM

Quote from: Purge on January 15, 2014, 12:37:25 AM

If you want to compare apples to oranges, good for you. BC has meant the ability to play your old games on your new system. PS3Phat60GB did it, older PS3 emulated it, and 360 did too (select titles).

Wii *was* BC to GC.

Stuff you rebuy is a rerelease. It isn't compatibility, its programmed on the new platform. So opinion on that is pretty open/closed on that - BC is new being set up to use old, not reselling old on new.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backward_compatibility

"In telecommunications and computing, a product or technology is backward or downward compatible if it can work with input generated by an older product or technology."

It's not generated by an older product or technology, it's generated by brand new technology. The content may be old, but what generates the content is new  Tongue


Are you saying a game isn't a product?
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« Reply #2090 on: January 15, 2014, 10:51:20 AM »

What are we even arguing about now?
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« Reply #2091 on: January 15, 2014, 11:11:27 AM »

Which color is better, I think.
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« Reply #2092 on: January 15, 2014, 03:13:29 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on January 15, 2014, 11:11:27 AM

Which color is better, I think.
Blue.  anyone who picks red is a nazi
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« Reply #2093 on: January 20, 2014, 10:26:40 PM »

Anyone having issues with corrupted saves/games that won't load?

http://www.joystiq.com/2014/01/20/report-playstation-4-error-is-corrupting-user-save-files/

I haven't powered on my PS4 in a number of days but I never experienced these reported issues (knock on wood) in all the time I've had the system. The weird thing is that the huge Sony support forum thread that is referenced in the article is from the European support page. I took a quick look at the U.S. support forum and there isn't anything close to that in comparison.
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« Reply #2094 on: January 21, 2014, 12:17:18 AM »

Quote from: Jimmy the Fish on January 20, 2014, 10:26:40 PM

Anyone having issues with corrupted saves/games that won't load?

http://www.joystiq.com/2014/01/20/report-playstation-4-error-is-corrupting-user-save-files/

I haven't powered on my PS4 in a number of days but I never experienced these reported issues (knock on wood) in all the time I've had the system. The weird thing is that the huge Sony support forum thread that is referenced in the article is from the European support page. I took a quick look at the U.S. support forum and there isn't anything close to that in comparison.

I definitely had issues with Battlefield 4 saves (which is the game in the picture of the article), but they seem to have been BF4 problems and not PS4 ones.
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« Reply #2095 on: January 21, 2014, 05:39:59 AM »

Never experienced anything like that, and I've been playing my PS4 a lot. Didn't even happen in Lego Marvel Super Heroes when it kept crashing, even when the crash happened while saving.
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« Reply #2096 on: January 21, 2014, 01:52:48 PM »

I haven't had any save problems yet.

I did have the square button on one of my controllers go out though. It's stuck pressed in and won't pop back out to its normal position. I haven't spilled anything on it either. Hopefully Walmart will replace it.
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« Reply #2097 on: January 21, 2014, 03:22:51 PM »

I only had that issue with BF4 and they released a patch to fix that specifically.  They being DICE.
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« Reply #2098 on: January 21, 2014, 04:31:01 PM »

I've had no save issues at all with any of my games (have like 8 or so games counting some PSN-only games).
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« Reply #2099 on: January 21, 2014, 05:50:53 PM »

none here, even in BF4 thankfully. 
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« Reply #2100 on: January 21, 2014, 08:41:18 PM »

Hmmm, does not seem to be a widespread problem then, although it would suck to be hit by it since it appears to corrupt saves in a really awful way.
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« Reply #2101 on: January 22, 2014, 12:19:48 AM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on January 15, 2014, 03:12:38 AM

Quote from: Ridah on January 15, 2014, 02:59:18 AM

Quote from: th'FOOL on January 15, 2014, 02:06:25 AM

Quote from: Purge on January 15, 2014, 12:37:25 AM

If you want to compare apples to oranges, good for you. BC has meant the ability to play your old games on your new system. PS3Phat60GB did it, older PS3 emulated it, and 360 did too (select titles).

Wii *was* BC to GC.

Stuff you rebuy is a rerelease. It isn't compatibility, its programmed on the new platform. So opinion on that is pretty open/closed on that - BC is new being set up to use old, not reselling old on new.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backward_compatibility

"In telecommunications and computing, a product or technology is backward or downward compatible if it can work with input generated by an older product or technology."

It's not generated by an older product or technology, it's generated by brand new technology. The content may be old, but what generates the content is new  Tongue


Are you saying a game isn't a product?

Technically you can label anything a product. But in this case I'm calling the console the product and the game the content. It's just semantics, I know, but is there really anything else to argue about in forums? smile
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« Reply #2102 on: January 22, 2014, 12:37:21 AM »

What's everyone's next big PS4 purchase, anyhow? Mine's been collecting dust. It's surprising how much better the PC platform is than any of the consoles, strictly speaking in terms of the flow of quality releases. The PS4 has been dry since launch week, but on my PC there's something new worth purchasing on a weekly basis. Not to mention all the sales. This has only become apparent to me recently because I'm using a console again (I hadn't touched my 360 and PS3 in ages), plus I've got my PC connected to a TV and booting straight into Steam Big Picture mode while mainly using a 360 controller for games, so it feels like another console. The delta wasn't so obvious when my PC was being used in a more traditional PC fashion.
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« Reply #2103 on: January 22, 2014, 01:28:05 AM »

Infamous, and possibly Thief.
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« Reply #2104 on: January 22, 2014, 01:47:55 AM »

Just preordered Infamous on PSN today, I'll rent Tomb Raider and Thief and will buy MGS:GZ digital also.
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« Reply #2105 on: January 22, 2014, 02:06:07 AM »

Infamous, Thief, Metal Gear Solid
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« Reply #2106 on: January 22, 2014, 05:48:21 AM »

Quote from: Ridah on January 22, 2014, 12:37:21 AM

What's everyone's next big PS4 purchase, anyhow? Mine's been collecting dust. It's surprising how much better the PC platform is than any of the consoles, strictly speaking in terms of the flow of quality releases. The PS4 has been dry since launch week, but on my PC there's something new worth purchasing on a weekly basis. Not to mention all the sales. This has only become apparent to me recently because I'm using a console again (I hadn't touched my 360 and PS3 in ages), plus I've got my PC connected to a TV and booting straight into Steam Big Picture mode while mainly using a 360 controller for games, so it feels like another console. The delta wasn't so obvious when my PC was being used in a more traditional PC fashion.

The "drought" (and it's really not bad compared to some previous consoles) for both next-gen consoles is due to the difficulties and uncertainties of developing for a new platform before it's even out. It has nothing to do with the apparent quality of any platform, PC included. Once both consoles get a year or so behind them, releases should be as steady and regular as we know them from before. Probably much more regular now that I think about it, thanks to the focus on indie games. We'll see if Microsoft can catch the same momentum in that regard as Sony has right now, but money is a good motivator for anyone.

Anyway, my next big purchase for the PS4 is going to be Rayman Legends, and possibly Thief if it turns out to be good. Both release at the same day next month.
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« Reply #2107 on: January 22, 2014, 03:14:52 PM »

Infamous and probably Tomb Raider.
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« Reply #2108 on: January 22, 2014, 03:33:52 PM »

Drought?

I have too many games to play and not enough time.

FIFA 14 and NBA 2K14 are taking up 90% of my time which means I'm lucky to squeeze in a few minutes a week with AssCreed IV or Killzone.

I'm so glad my next purchase isn't until MLB 14 in March.
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« Reply #2109 on: January 22, 2014, 03:36:36 PM »

Maybe the Lego Movie game in February.
Maybe Thief.

But I will definitely be getting Metal Gear and Infamous.
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« Reply #2110 on: January 22, 2014, 03:45:47 PM »

Considering getting Thief
Infamous is day one along with MGS:Ground Zeroes
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« Reply #2111 on: January 22, 2014, 07:41:11 PM »

Infamous just became available to pre-order on PSN (the digital version). Pre-ordering upgrades you to the Limited Edition with extra content.
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« Reply #2112 on: January 28, 2014, 10:16:07 PM »

More good news concerning Backwards Compatibility for PS1/PS2 games for the PS4

Eurogamer

Quote
Backwards compatibility is coming to PlayStation 4, and PlayStation Now is only part of the story. A well-placed source working with Sony's streaming service reveals that only PlayStation 3 titles are currently scheduled to use the "gameplay over IP" cloud service. PS1 and PS2 titles are set to follow the more conventional route of running locally under emulation on Sony's latest console - but with the possibility of HD visual enhancements.


Quote
Our information suggests that the same internal emulator strategy is planned for PlayStation 4, and we understand that Sony is actively pursuing the ability for older titles to run without the blurry upscaling seen on PS3, suggesting that native HD resolutions are being targeted.
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« Reply #2113 on: January 29, 2014, 01:34:47 AM »

I kind of expected this. And not surprised they are working on it, but whether it will be released remains to be seen. This would help consolidate platforms though, I know many who still play the best ps2 games.

Although, most of those games already have hd versions on ps3.
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« Reply #2114 on: January 29, 2014, 06:32:52 PM »

Quote from: JayDee on January 22, 2014, 03:33:52 PM

Drought?

I have too many games to play and not enough time.

FIFA 14 and NBA 2K14 are taking up 90% of my time which means I'm lucky to squeeze in a few minutes a week with AssCreed IV or Killzone.

I'm so glad my next purchase isn't until MLB 14 in March.

I'm playing FIFA and NBA too, let's get a match sometime (Arsenal_Broker).

You'll probably stomp be in basketball and vice versa in Soccer slywink

Ps1 and PS 2 emulation coming??
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« Reply #2115 on: January 29, 2014, 06:33:32 PM »

Sorry didn't see earlier post. smile


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« Reply #2116 on: January 29, 2014, 09:21:05 PM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on January 28, 2014, 10:16:07 PM

More good news concerning Backwards Compatibility for PS1/PS2 games for the PS4

Eurogamer

Quote
Backwards compatibility is coming to PlayStation 4, and PlayStation Now is only part of the story. A well-placed source working with Sony's streaming service reveals that only PlayStation 3 titles are currently scheduled to use the "gameplay over IP" cloud service. PS1 and PS2 titles are set to follow the more conventional route of running locally under emulation on Sony's latest console - but with the possibility of HD visual enhancements.


This is such huge news for me, it teeters on the verge of "Too Good To Be True."  

I've written about the importance I place on backwards compatibility on many previous occasions.  I also have friends who missed out on the chance to get PS3s while they were still able to play PS2 games, meaning that they've never had the chance to play games like Persona 3: FES, Dark Cloud 2, Rogue Galaxy, Final Fantasy XII, and many others that haven't received official HD upgrades.  Now they own PS4s, and the ability to play those older games would be a big deal.


Quote from: metallicorphan on January 28, 2014, 10:16:07 PM

Quote
Our information suggests that the same internal emulator strategy is planned for PlayStation 4, and we understand that Sony is actively pursuing the ability for older titles to run without the blurry upscaling seen on PS3, suggesting that native HD resolutions are being targeted.

The "blurry upscaling" referenced by Eurogamer looked pretty damn good when I was playing through all those games I mentioned above.  Matching that quality would have made me perfectly happy...not that I'd turn down something even better! nod

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« Reply #2117 on: January 31, 2014, 03:19:49 PM »

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TiLT
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Preaching to the choir


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« Reply #2118 on: January 31, 2014, 03:21:08 PM »

LOL, that can't be official, right?
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Scraper
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« Reply #2119 on: January 31, 2014, 03:46:21 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on January 31, 2014, 03:21:08 PM

LOL, that can't be official, right?

IGN is reporting it as well, of course the Microsoft version doesn't have the Playstation add attached to it.
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" And they are a strong and frightening force, impervious to, and immunized against, the feeble lance of mere reason." Isaac Asimov
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