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Author Topic: Orbis. aka PlayStation 4? The rumors are put to rest.  (Read 54355 times)
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TiLT
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« Reply #960 on: September 04, 2013, 04:42:28 AM »

Quote from: skystride on September 03, 2013, 09:21:47 PM

Or it could be the next Virtual Boy like device and Microsoft will be laughing their ass off as they watch it fail. 

You mean like Sony are doing with Kinect?

The Oculus Rift is being praised to high heavens by people who've tried it. It's not a mere gimmick, as it totally changes the way you play and experience games in a way that a 3D TV could never do. The feeling of "being there" is so intense that people instinctively reach out and try to grab things that aren't there. I recommend looking up a few Youtube videos of people trying the Oculus Rift. There's a childlike wonder experienced by almost everyone that tries it, something we don't really see very often in the games industry.

As mentioned, Sony has been working on this technology for far longer than the Oculus Rift people. It's reasonable to assume that Sony's goggles will be more technically advanced than the Oculus Rift, though the price is impossible to predict right now.
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« Reply #961 on: September 04, 2013, 09:57:48 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on September 04, 2013, 04:42:28 AM


The Oculus Rift is being praised to high heavens by people who've tried it. It's not a mere gimmick, as it totally changes the way you play and experience games in a way that a 3D TV could never do.


Haven't pretty much everyone of the new devices over the years claimed the same thing? icon_wink

Anyway,i am certainly not going to slag it off before playing it,like i did with the Wii U Tongue (you can still screw off Nintendo!),as long as i said they don't force it on you to use
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« Reply #962 on: September 04, 2013, 11:21:49 AM »

Quote from: wonderpug on September 04, 2013, 02:47:43 AM

Or...


that works too.
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« Reply #963 on: September 04, 2013, 02:21:25 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on September 04, 2013, 04:42:28 AM

As mentioned, Sony has been working on this technology for far longer than the Oculus Rift people. It's reasonable to assume that Sony's goggles will be more technically advanced than the Oculus Rift, though the price is impossible to predict right now.

I know that Sony in the past have released a lot of crappy peripherals (e.g. Move) trying to play catchup.  I think it's a pretty bold statement to say whatever they come out with (if anything since this is just a rumour), it will be better than OR but I guess we will have to wait and see.
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« Reply #964 on: September 04, 2013, 02:27:37 PM »

Quote from: skystride on September 04, 2013, 02:21:25 PM

Quote from: TiLT on September 04, 2013, 04:42:28 AM

As mentioned, Sony has been working on this technology for far longer than the Oculus Rift people. It's reasonable to assume that Sony's goggles will be more technically advanced than the Oculus Rift, though the price is impossible to predict right now.

I know that Sony in the past have released a lot of crappy peripherals (e.g. Move) trying to play catchup.  I think it's a pretty bold statement to say whatever they come out with (if anything since this is just a rumour), it will be better than OR but I guess we will have to wait and see.

Move was much higher fidelity than both Kinect and Wii though.   Its issues were game support and that market already being cornered by the Wii, even if the Wiimote had less fidelity.
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« Reply #965 on: September 04, 2013, 02:39:17 PM »

I don't think there was anything crappy about the Move, it just didn't reach critical mass. That's probably the one thing that MS has actually done right with the Xbone with Kinect, despite all the complaints. If VT tech is something that just works with all games automatically without requiring any extra work then I could see it catching on. If it's dependent on developers getting off their lazy asses (I kid, I kid) it will fail.
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« Reply #966 on: September 04, 2013, 03:09:49 PM »

I must be in the minority then.  I thought the Move was terrible (I did try it) but then I really don't like Wii interface either.  I don't want a higher fidelity Wiimote as a gaming peripheral.  It wouldn't change my mind if it got a ton of great games to support it.  Kinect like devices is the future imo so it seemed odd to me that Sony took a step backwards in the motion tracking department.
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« Reply #967 on: September 04, 2013, 03:39:15 PM »

Quote from: skystride on September 04, 2013, 03:09:49 PM

I must be in the minority then.  I thought the Move was terrible (I did try it) but then I really don't like Wii interface either.  I don't want a higher fidelity Wiimote as a gaming peripheral.  It wouldn't change my mind if it got a ton of great games to support it.  Kinect like devices is the future imo so it seemed odd to me that Sony took a step backwards in the motion tracking department.

Yeah, the Move was very well done, but if you don't like that control style, it certainly wouldn't change your mind.
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« Reply #968 on: September 05, 2013, 06:08:19 AM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on September 04, 2013, 03:39:15 PM

Quote from: skystride on September 04, 2013, 03:09:49 PM

I must be in the minority then.  I thought the Move was terrible (I did try it) but then I really don't like Wii interface either.  I don't want a higher fidelity Wiimote as a gaming peripheral.  It wouldn't change my mind if it got a ton of great games to support it.  Kinect like devices is the future imo so it seemed odd to me that Sony took a step backwards in the motion tracking department.

Yeah, the Move was very well done, but if you don't like that control style, it certainly wouldn't change your mind.

Agree on the Move and I was pleasantly surprised how well the wheel / handlebar controller they built to house it works. Still have zero interest in "Kinect like devices" and if that truly is the future then I guess I'll be happily gaming in the past.  icon_wink
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« Reply #969 on: September 05, 2013, 06:48:10 AM »

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on September 05, 2013, 06:08:19 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on September 04, 2013, 03:39:15 PM

Quote from: skystride on September 04, 2013, 03:09:49 PM

I must be in the minority then.  I thought the Move was terrible (I did try it) but then I really don't like Wii interface either.  I don't want a higher fidelity Wiimote as a gaming peripheral.  It wouldn't change my mind if it got a ton of great games to support it.  Kinect like devices is the future imo so it seemed odd to me that Sony took a step backwards in the motion tracking department.

Yeah, the Move was very well done, but if you don't like that control style, it certainly wouldn't change your mind.

Agree on the Move and I was pleasantly surprised how well the wheel / handlebar controller they built to house it works. Still have zero interest in "Kinect like devices" and if that truly is the future then I guess I'll be happily gaming in the past.  icon_wink

I'm not sure whether or not you're referring to Oculus Rift and its ilk as "Kinect like devices", but just in case you are, that's very far from the truth. Where Kinect is an alternate method of control, Oculus Rift is a way to increase immersion (and dramatically so according to those who have tried it).
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« Reply #970 on: September 05, 2013, 12:09:23 PM »

Sony's next big peripheral expected for fall 2014 launch, said to be more accurate than Oculus Rift

A few choice snippets:

Quote
The headset (which is not tied to the company's existing Wearable HDTV Personal 3D Viewer, pictured above) uses the PS4's PlayStation Eye camera, like Move did, for head tracking. This, say people who have used it, makes the headset even more accurate than the Oculus Rift - though it does present some aesthetic challenges.

Quote
While there have been reports that the system will make its debut at this year's Tokyo Game Show, those appear inaccurate. Sony does not wish to distract buyers in the days leading up to the PS4's launch - and, as yet, there are not enough games that can showcase the technology.

People with knowledge of the product say they believe the headset will launch in the fall of 2014, but that date, too, is subject to change.

Quote
The headset could be a differentiator for the PS4 - and could be part of the reason Sony is so aggressively targeting independent developers in the upcoming generation. Microsoft is not believed to be working on similar technology - and Oculus has said its focus with the Rift is PC and mobile technology.

Quote
The most significant problem, however, was lack of publisher support. Sony is working hard to ensure that doesn't happen again, making something Jack Tretton, president and CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment America, said at the launch of the PlayStation 3D monitor just as relevant today.

"I think it's a very similar analogy to HD," he noted. "Content will drive adoption."

So it's looking like this will be out in the fall of 2014, will require Playstation Eye for head tracking, will be more accurate than Oculus Rift, and will have heavy developer support. This could get interesting.

It'll probably have a light bar to integrate properly with the PS Eye, just like the Dualshock 4. Here's a leaked picture of the prototype in action: (shamelessly stolen from NeoGAF)

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« Reply #971 on: September 05, 2013, 12:35:48 PM »

well at least TiLT is in!! Tongue
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« Reply #972 on: September 05, 2013, 01:50:01 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on September 05, 2013, 06:48:10 AM

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on September 05, 2013, 06:08:19 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on September 04, 2013, 03:39:15 PM

Quote from: skystride on September 04, 2013, 03:09:49 PM

I must be in the minority then.  I thought the Move was terrible (I did try it) but then I really don't like Wii interface either.  I don't want a higher fidelity Wiimote as a gaming peripheral.  It wouldn't change my mind if it got a ton of great games to support it.  Kinect like devices is the future imo so it seemed odd to me that Sony took a step backwards in the motion tracking department.

Yeah, the Move was very well done, but if you don't like that control style, it certainly wouldn't change your mind.

Agree on the Move and I was pleasantly surprised how well the wheel / handlebar controller they built to house it works. Still have zero interest in "Kinect like devices" and if that truly is the future then I guess I'll be happily gaming in the past.  icon_wink

I'm not sure whether or not you're referring to Oculus Rift and its ilk as "Kinect like devices", but just in case you are, that's very far from the truth. Where Kinect is an alternate method of control, Oculus Rift is a way to increase immersion (and dramatically so according to those who have tried it).

If that's directed my way I certainly wasn't...
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« Reply #973 on: September 05, 2013, 03:06:09 PM »

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on September 05, 2013, 01:50:01 PM

Quote from: TiLT on September 05, 2013, 06:48:10 AM

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on September 05, 2013, 06:08:19 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on September 04, 2013, 03:39:15 PM

Quote from: skystride on September 04, 2013, 03:09:49 PM

I must be in the minority then.  I thought the Move was terrible (I did try it) but then I really don't like Wii interface either.  I don't want a higher fidelity Wiimote as a gaming peripheral.  It wouldn't change my mind if it got a ton of great games to support it.  Kinect like devices is the future imo so it seemed odd to me that Sony took a step backwards in the motion tracking department.

Yeah, the Move was very well done, but if you don't like that control style, it certainly wouldn't change your mind.

Agree on the Move and I was pleasantly surprised how well the wheel / handlebar controller they built to house it works. Still have zero interest in "Kinect like devices" and if that truly is the future then I guess I'll be happily gaming in the past.  icon_wink

I'm not sure whether or not you're referring to Oculus Rift and its ilk as "Kinect like devices", but just in case you are, that's very far from the truth. Where Kinect is an alternate method of control, Oculus Rift is a way to increase immersion (and dramatically so according to those who have tried it).

If that's directed my way I certainly wasn't...

Didn't think you were, but just wanted to make sure. smile
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« Reply #974 on: September 05, 2013, 05:27:11 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on September 05, 2013, 12:09:23 PM


If I can shoot an energy beam out of it, I'm in.  I don't care about game immersion.  It would be for my "home defense".   
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« Reply #975 on: September 05, 2013, 05:31:54 PM »

Looks interesting but I can't base my decision now on something that's at least a year away. Sounds like I have my Christmas list for 2014 already made out.  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #976 on: September 05, 2013, 05:34:11 PM »

Quote from: Roguetad on September 05, 2013, 05:27:11 PM

If I can shoot an energy beam out of it, I'm in.  I don't care about game immersion.  It would be for my "home defense".   

Ruby colored interdimensional concussive optic blasts don't kill people, people kill people.
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« Reply #977 on: September 05, 2013, 07:11:48 PM »

Quote from: Roguetad on September 05, 2013, 05:27:11 PM

Quote from: TiLT on September 05, 2013, 12:09:23 PM


If I can shoot an energy beam out of it, I'm in.  I don't care about game immersion.  It would be for my "home defense".   

honey?  we need a new cat!
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« Reply #978 on: September 06, 2013, 01:01:04 AM »

So they're planning on using Move for this, and fracture the install base on the outset? Hrmm. Looks like the Eyetoy is around 50 bux at retail (given the bundle cost). Seems like they could have tossed that in to seed their next years market.
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« Reply #979 on: September 06, 2013, 04:22:32 AM »

Quote from: Purge on September 06, 2013, 01:01:04 AM

So they're planning on using Move for this, and fracture the install base on the outset? Hrmm. Looks like the Eyetoy is around 50 bux at retail (given the bundle cost). Seems like they could have tossed that in to seed their next years market.

Unlike Microsoft, Sony doesn't want to force their customers into buying things they don't want. PS Eye is optional, and these new goggles are optional, and Sony makes this very clear. This is a good thing, even if you for some bizarre reason try to portray it as a negative.
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« Reply #980 on: September 06, 2013, 04:26:26 AM »

I can't imagine this is going to cost less than the console itself, no?
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« Reply #981 on: September 06, 2013, 04:35:15 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on September 06, 2013, 04:22:32 AM

Unlike Microsoft, Sony doesn't want to force their customers into buying things they don't want. PS Eye is optional, and these new goggles are optional, and Sony makes this very clear. This is a good thing, even if you for some bizarre reason try to portray it as a negative.

Fractured user base is a negative, if you're looking for adoption of new tech - certainly on a brand new console system where adoption rates are extremely low - there is likely to be more PS3+Move users than there will be PS4 users. That doesn't bode well for developers to focus on building compelling Move games - the retail attachment won't be that great (though they'll likely be higher than PS3s, given that the PS4+Move owners did that deliberately, and much more recently).
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« Reply #982 on: September 06, 2013, 04:47:28 AM »

Quote from: gellar on September 06, 2013, 04:26:26 AM

I can't imagine this is going to cost less than the console itself, no?

It might, but I don't think the price difference will be very large. The Oculus Rift is aiming for $300, AFAIK.

Quote from: Purge on September 06, 2013, 04:35:15 AM

Quote from: TiLT on September 06, 2013, 04:22:32 AM

Unlike Microsoft, Sony doesn't want to force their customers into buying things they don't want. PS Eye is optional, and these new goggles are optional, and Sony makes this very clear. This is a good thing, even if you for some bizarre reason try to portray it as a negative.

Fractured user base is a negative, if you're looking for adoption of new tech - certainly on a brand new console system where adoption rates are extremely low - there is likely to be more PS3+Move users than there will be PS4 users. That doesn't bode well for developers to focus on building compelling Move games - the retail attachment won't be that great (though they'll likely be higher than PS3s, given that the PS4+Move owners did that deliberately, and much more recently).

You can count the people who care about Move on one hand, and the Kinect isn't much better off. Even if Move was bundled with every system, players still wouldn't want to use it for the most part. What you call "fracturing the user base", I call "following the customers' wishes". Few developers will focus on building compelling Move games on PS4, and that's how it has to be. I'm not sure why you're bringing this up. That someone needs PS Eye for the new goggles doesn't mean he wants to use Move. You're making an assumption that I believe is very faulty.
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« Reply #983 on: September 06, 2013, 05:20:55 AM »

Fracturing a user base involved actively separating people through a mutually exclusive thing.

In this case, as with the original Kinect, neither schemes fractured their user base, because the users who wanted something went out and got it.

The proper term isn't fractured user base, but instead, limited user adoption/buy in, which then affects developer support.

Fracturing a user base is stuff like paid map DLCs for things like CoD, where those unable or unwilling to buy the map packs can't play with their friends.
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« Reply #984 on: September 06, 2013, 11:59:53 AM »

T3 Head Mounted Display This NOT the PS4 version due out next year, but is compatible with the PC and PS3.  Added it here due to the price.  If this is what the price for the PS4 model I would be shocked
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« Reply #985 on: September 06, 2013, 01:40:14 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on September 06, 2013, 05:20:55 AM

Fracturing a user base involved actively separating people through a mutually exclusive thing.

In this case, as with the original Kinect, neither schemes fractured their user base, because the users who wanted something went out and got it.

The proper term isn't fractured user base, but instead, limited user adoption/buy in, which then affects developer support.

Fracturing a user base is stuff like paid map DLCs for things like CoD, where those unable or unwilling to buy the map packs can't play with their friends.

You're right. The term isn't accurate. The attach rates will more clearly define the direct interest. The difference with the Kinect is that the device isn't solely intended as an input for dance games - whereas the move is currently a gaming input with no key value to the base product. Leveraging it with their next tech (3d reality) means they're either going to "pack it in" to provide a complete kit for users (and in some cases put buyers out for having already bought a move), or make users buy it a la carte and have the end users "decide" what they need (risky xmas gift issues ensue).

I'm not saying it's bad.  I just think the whole Move "option" is going to head the way of the Wii-Mote+ which I think is too bad - motion controls can offer some interesting new gameplay opportunities.
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« Reply #986 on: September 06, 2013, 03:38:19 PM »

Quote from: Purge on September 06, 2013, 01:40:14 PM

Quote from: Turtle on September 06, 2013, 05:20:55 AM

Fracturing a user base involved actively separating people through a mutually exclusive thing.

In this case, as with the original Kinect, neither schemes fractured their user base, because the users who wanted something went out and got it.

The proper term isn't fractured user base, but instead, limited user adoption/buy in, which then affects developer support.

Fracturing a user base is stuff like paid map DLCs for things like CoD, where those unable or unwilling to buy the map packs can't play with their friends.

You're right. The term isn't accurate. The attach rates will more clearly define the direct interest. The difference with the Kinect is that the device isn't solely intended as an input for dance games - whereas the move is currently a gaming input with no key value to the base product. Leveraging it with their next tech (3d reality) means they're either going to "pack it in" to provide a complete kit for users (and in some cases put buyers out for having already bought a move), or make users buy it a la carte and have the end users "decide" what they need (risky xmas gift issues ensue).

I'm not saying it's bad.  I just think the whole Move "option" is going to head the way of the Wii-Mote+ which I think is too bad - motion controls can offer some interesting new gameplay opportunities.

Purge, Move and PSEye are two different things.

I may have missed it, but I thought they said it needed the Eye.  I'm imagining this headset is going to be a big enough expense that they'll probably include and Eye with it.
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« Reply #987 on: September 06, 2013, 09:53:51 PM »

You think Kinect 2.0 takes up a lot of room.  Just wait until Sony announces multiplayer Omni support.

Virtuix Omni
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« Reply #988 on: September 07, 2013, 07:28:46 AM »

press conference Monday.  I sense a release date change.
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« Reply #989 on: September 07, 2013, 08:01:18 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on September 07, 2013, 07:28:46 AM

press conference Monday.  I sense a release date change.

Do you mean to push the European release date up so that it's released before the Xbox One? I guess it's possible, but we'll just have to wait and see.
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« Reply #990 on: September 07, 2013, 08:17:23 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on September 07, 2013, 08:01:18 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on September 07, 2013, 07:28:46 AM

press conference Monday.  I sense a release date change.

Do you mean to push the European release date up so that it's released before the Xbox One? I guess it's possible, but we'll just have to wait and see.

actually I was thinking about them pushing up the American date, but I suppose if you consider Europe to be  important  there's that too smile
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« Reply #991 on: September 07, 2013, 08:49:47 AM »

Uh, yeah. Not gonna happen. They have absolutely no reason to push up the American date, as they are already first there and launching any earlier would just increase risk and reduce stock. They're sitting fine where they are. The only known release date they could benefit from pushing is the European one since it's currently one week later than Xbox One (in the few countries where the latter launches this year, that is).
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« Reply #992 on: September 07, 2013, 12:28:01 PM »

Umm this press conference has been in the works for months. It's conceivable that they could change a date but that's not the reason why it was scheduled. If anything it's probably to give the Japanese the bad news that they're not going to be able to get their hands on a PS4 until March 2014. Get the bad news out of the way before TGS.
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« Reply #993 on: September 07, 2013, 03:18:06 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on September 07, 2013, 08:49:47 AM

Uh, yeah. Not gonna happen. They have absolutely no reason to push up the American date, as they are already first there and launching any earlier would just increase risk and reduce stock. They're sitting fine where they are. The only known release date they could benefit from pushing is the European one since it's currently one week later than Xbox One (in the few countries where the latter launches this year, that is).

What risk? Also, not sure if you recall the Wii launch but the shortages were paramount to the gotta have one mentality.  Hell even my wife wanted to buy one when we stumbled upon one on July 4th at Bestbuy. Creating artificial shortages is an old marketing tactic and proven to be successful. The trick is to not let it out too early(that there may be shortages) and play the aww shucks we had no idea it would be this popular card. 
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TiLT
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« Reply #994 on: September 07, 2013, 03:24:32 PM »

Quote from: morlac on September 07, 2013, 03:18:06 PM

Quote from: TiLT on September 07, 2013, 08:49:47 AM

Uh, yeah. Not gonna happen. They have absolutely no reason to push up the American date, as they are already first there and launching any earlier would just increase risk and reduce stock. They're sitting fine where they are. The only known release date they could benefit from pushing is the European one since it's currently one week later than Xbox One (in the few countries where the latter launches this year, that is).

What risk? Also, not sure if you recall the Wii launch but the shortages were paramount to the gotta have one mentality.  Hell even my wife wanted to buy one when we stumbled upon one on July 4th at Bestbuy. Creating artificial shortages is an old marketing tactic and proven to be successful. The trick is to not let it out too early(that there may be shortages) and play the aww shucks we had no idea it would be this popular card.  

Risk: That the interface or early games are buggy in ways that could have been fixed with one or two more weeks of development time. Publishing as late as possible reduces this risk.

As for the shortages, it doesn't work the way you think it works. What you're saying is essentially a conspiracy theory, and as all conspiracy theories goes, it's wrong. Companies like Sony, Microsoft, Apple, etc. sign contracts for a production run with the factories that produce their products. These contracts say that they're supposed to produce a certain amount of units every month for a certain amount of time, usually for a year or two at a time. This keeps production prices low. The amount of units produced typically stays constant throughout this period, and the challenge the companies face then is to pick a number of monthly units that won't leave them with unsold units on shelves. They want to minimize risk. Since consoles start production just a few months before release (3 in this case, it would appear), you only get those monthly allotments of units at launch. Maybe some companies bring in extra factories at launch to increase stock temporarily, but that sounds both expensive and risky to me.

The effect you're talking about is a lucky coincidence, not a strategy. It all comes down to the fine balance between short term supply and long term risk. They'd rather have a slight shortage at launch than millions of units in two years that don't sell.

Edit: You should also consider this: If all units at launch sell out, how the heck are the companies producing them supposed to benefit? It doesn't matter if there's plenty of demand if there's no supply. They don't earn money by having potential customers wanting their products. They earn money by having potential customers buy their products.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 03:27:24 PM by TiLT » Logged
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« Reply #995 on: September 09, 2013, 06:59:01 AM »

PS4 won't launch in Japan until February 22, 2014
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« Reply #996 on: September 09, 2013, 08:55:41 AM »

That is both surprising, and also not surprising at all.  Japan is currently very, very smart phone gaming centric. It's to the point where there's a stigma against console gamers of any kind.
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« Reply #997 on: September 09, 2013, 09:13:33 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on September 09, 2013, 08:55:41 AM

That is both surprising, and also not surprising at all.  Japan is currently very, very smart phone gaming centric. It's to the point where there's a stigma against console gamers of any kind.

I thought it was more to do with what SONY said a few months ago that success is pretty much guaranteed in Japan,and therefore they will be concentrating in the west for making sure stock does not run short for their launches
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« Reply #998 on: September 09, 2013, 09:19:21 AM »

I predicted a March or Feb release. Makes perfect sense to me. There's no competition in Japan and there'll be a huge battle in NA since MS made the Xbone less insane. Japan doesn't really matter anymore anyways when it comes to market share. They've made their smartphone/portable bed and now they're going to have to lie in it. The real question is, do we believe Sony when they say that the reason for the delay is because Japanese developers aren't ready? I don't believe that for a second. What have they been doing all this time? Have they not had equal access to PS4 developer kits?
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« Reply #999 on: September 09, 2013, 11:13:16 AM »

A day with Playstation   Pretty cool...   Might just decide to hold onto my PS4 pre-order..   IN!!


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