Orbis. aka PlayStation 4? The rumors begin.

[CeeKay]

My friend just emailed me this first ever pic of the PS4:

Spoiler for Hiden:

worst case ever!  needs more neon!

[CeeKay]

Sony America head 'hopes' PlayStation 4 won't cost $599 at launch, says specs aren't finalized yet

So do I Jack, so do I.

Uggggh come on Sony!

It better not be 600 bucks, because, sincerely, Sony: 'Fuck that!'

The most I'll pay for a next gen is 399. - 450. & 450  would be pushing it

yeah, I'm arbitrarily making $399 my limit unless there are at least 4 exclusives that I want out just because there is no sense in having it collect dust and I already have a dedicated blu ray player.  inFAMouS Second Son is one and Knack has the potential to be the second one. 

I'd say there's about zero chance it's less than $400.  I'm just hoping it's not more than $500, but I expect it will be.

I'll probably just take that $399 and use it on PC upgrades in that case

[Bullwinkle]

I think it's funny that people think that all social network connectivity means is spamming your twitter and facebook accounts with granular status posts.

I think it's funny that you assume none of us know what social integration is.

Based on what everybody in this thread is complaining about, you don't

I think that's based more on what you're assuming than what is being said.

I'll use myself as an example.  When I said that I don't want my friends and family knowing how much time I spend gaming, in no way was I assuming that this information would be transmitted without my knowledge or permission.  It's just a feature I don't have an interest in.

I'm not even complaining that it's there.  I understand that having everything connected across all channels is the way it is.  Some of that I even like and think will evolve nicely.  The idea that someday I might have a one-stop location that compiles my various media streams for me and that I might click on a particular movie and have the appropriate media service launch and show it to me is exciting.  What doesn't excite me is telling everyone I know what that movie was.  But many people do like just that.  

The companies that are doing this stuff like it a lot, of course, since they can not only find out what movies I like and games I play, but they can also find ways to entice me to buy more of that stuff.  It's what targeted marketing is all about.  

But it's the social side of it that I have no interest in.  But in no way have I said that I'm upset it's there.  I haven't said I'm not buying a PS4 because of it.  Really, no complaining.

My observation, though, is that this trend will fade as people realize that maybe they shouldn't constantly be posting the last ten minutes of footage from a game, as that is the gamer's equivalent of taking a picture of your dinner and then posting it.  That is just an example, just like the outdated Farmville reference I made earlier.  The point is that when people are sending out clips of their latest teabag exploits, it sends a message that eventually they're not going to want to be sending.

My other observation is that your attitude was condescending, and I didn't care for it.

Okay, maybe that last one is a complaint.

[PR_GMR]

Jimmy Fallon just had a demo of the new 'Killzone' on his show tonight. Needless to say, it looked stunning. No sight of the actual console, but they were demoing it live and it looked smooth as butter.

[Turtle]

I suspect that smooth as butter will be the highlight of this upcoming generation.

The last generation was just slightly under powered for the graphics they were trying to push, the PS3 especially, and even more specifically with Killzone. Although developers learned a lot of really cool tricks to make best use of it. The 360 fared way better due to the, I forget exactly the technical term, but the higher texture fill rate?

[TiLT]

Some interesting information has come out as the result of a roundtable discussion with Sony president of Worldwide Studios. A few bulletpoints:

- PS4 will support 3D (duh!), but it's not a focus since Sony's TV division has moved towards other technologies. He points out that 3D would be very smooth and detailed on the PS4 due to the increased framerate and resolution.
- The PS4 also supports 4k resolution, but not for games. This isn't an important thing right now, but it could become vital in the second half of the console's life cycle if the Durango doesn't support this.
- Sony is open to creating enhanced versions of PS3 games for the PS4, not unlike the way games like God of War were converted to the PS3. This means smoother framerates and 1080p resolution, at the very least. I imagine this is something that could happen to games like the Killzone series, which has typically pushed the hardware so far that the fluidity of the graphics have suffered.
- It doesn't seem like Remote Play is a requirement for games, but Sony seems to push it pretty hard. The guy says he'll be heartbroken if this doesn't work for every game on day 1.
- He won't commit to an answer about whether or not the PS4 will be region locked. My money is on "yes".
- He also won't go into detail about whether or not PSN will be free, but does say they're adding more functionality, services and content to the network. I was hoping for a less ambiguous answer to this, but I guess the speculation about paid multiplayer will have to continue, even if I still don't think Sony would go that way.
- The PS4 most likely won't make an appearance again before E3.
- He's extremely vague about The Last Guardian. To me that reads like they've moved it to the PS4, particularly since he talks about "reintroducing" the game.

[Canuck]

I live in Japan. Please, please, please don't release a region locked console.

[metallicorphan]

Kotaku had a poll on their site about what you thought of the PS4 announcement

About what I was expecting.  30.6%  (3,046 votes)

 
Disappointing.  29.6%  (2,947 votes)
 
 
Better than I was expecting.  24.49%  (2,438 votes)
 
 
Sensational!  11.41%  (1,136 votes)
 
 
I hated it so much I set my PS3 on fire.  3.9%  (388 votes)
 
 
 
Total Votes: 9,955

[TiLT]

Not surprising in an event mostly focused on investors and the game industry. Let's see what people think after E3.

[Turtle]

Why are you still posting anything from kotaku?

Even within this thread there is info from that they tried to pass off as confirmed rumor that's now been shown as wrong.

Kotaku posts garbage and just relies on sensation and confirmation bias to make them seem legit.

[Bullwinkle]

Some interesting information has come out as the result of a roundtable discussion with Sony president of Worldwide Studios. A few bulletpoints:

Also, here

[th'FOOL]

My other observation is that your attitude was condescending, and I didn't care for it.

Okay, maybe that last one is a complaint.

That's a fair cop.

[CeeKay]

Not surprising in an event mostly focused on investors and the game industry. Let's see what people think after E3 they announce the price.

FTFY.  if it was mostly fixed on investors and the game industry they wouldn't have been hyping it so far in advance.

[leo8877]

Ars weighs in

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/02/inside-the-playstation-4-a-balanced-approach-to-building-a-game-console/

[Bullwinkle]

Funny or Die also weighs in

http://www.funnyordie.com/lists/10e40c0cb6/6-reasons-to-not-buy-a-ps4?playlist=featured_pictures_and_words

[kathode]

The Onion is there!  http://www.theonion.com/articles/embarrassed-sony-ceo-announces-new-video-game-syst,31380/

[TiLT]

Funny or Die also weighs in

http://www.funnyordie.com/lists/10e40c0cb6/6-reasons-to-not-buy-a-ps4?playlist=featured_pictures_and_words

The last point in that list is funny because it's true. You just know there's someone out there holding off on the PS4 because "it'll be replaced by the PS5 anyway".

[TiLT]

Tretton: PS4 game prices range from $.99 to $60

What I find most interesting about that little article is that Sony is going to welcome Free-to-Play games. Now if they'll also allow subscriptions and/or in-game microtransactions (which I suppose they must if they support F2P), as well as not charging out the nose for game patches, we might start to see some real MMOs on consoles in the coming generation.

[Turtle]

I have a feeling that Planetside 2 is going to be on the PS4, which is a good thing in my opinion. The system spec for the PS4 matches up nicely with the recommended spec for it and it's also in active development. With consoles having 8GB of RAM now, consoles will actually have more ram than most gamer PCs.

[TiLT]

With consoles having 8GB of RAM now, consoles will actually have more ram than most gamer PCs.

I've been thinking about this a bit, and the thing that it seems most people are missing is that even if their home PC has 16 GB of RAM, most games are unable to use more than roughly 1.5 GB of it due to limitations in Windows and the x86 architecture. This will change (and probably sooner rather than later once games start being cross-compatible with PC and PS4/Durango), but publishers have been hesitant because a large number of home PCs still run Windows XP, which doesn't work well with larger amounts of memory.

With PS4 games being able to access about 7.5 GB of RAM (the rest being taken up by the OS) and Durango games being able to access about 5 GB (with 3 GB taken up by the OS. Go Microsoft!), we should see a change in the way games use memory. This should be particularly nice with open-world games and persistancy.

[Turtle]

Yep, already thought of that. Can't wait to see what the next Elder Scrolls or Fallout game is going to be like.

[TiLT]

Yep, already thought of that. Can't wait to see what the next Elder Scrolls or Fallout game is going to be like.

Yeah, that's what I'm the most excited about too. Shooters are the absolutely worst games to show off the capabilities of this new generation. The next Fallout or Elders Scrolls will blow people's minds, as long as Bethesda doesn't get lazy, that is.

[metallicorphan]

With Witcher 3,already announced and on its way for next gen,and saying it will be open world perhaps they will be the new benchmark of open world games,at least for a little while with it being close after the launch of next gen...but Elder Scrolls and Fallout i would already be looking forward to the next installment,even if it was on current gen

I think someone has brought it up before,but what i am worried about is devs taking a game and making it look amazing,but with no depth or even length....in fact with games looking better,i am worried games will start to get shorter

did you know the original Silent Hill game is/was 270mb in size?(sorry,i have been going through my PS3 HDD,and saw that)...still a firm favourite for SH fans,and its a decent sized game as well(kind of open world as well).....sure it looks like shit now,but still very playable

so,what have we learnt?...next gen is not needed,and in fact next gen can be replaced with two gens ago...huraaaah(I wouldn't have to buy a new system!!)

[TiLT]

I think someone has brought it up before,but what i am worried about is devs taking a game and making it look amazing,but with no depth or even length....in fact with games looking better,i am worried games will start to get shorter

Speaking as someone who has built a 3D engine from scratch in C++, I believe the common expectation that better graphics means more expensive/time-consuming is a myth. The reality is that what we have today has the artists building incredibly detailed models for games anyway. If they could just use those, they'd save themselves a hell of a lot of work. Instead, they create normal maps (a texture that contains vectors describing the direction that is "up" for every pixel) from this high-quality model, then rebuild the model as a low-quality version of itself. Finally they apply the normal map from the high-quality version, write suitable shaders, and put it in the game so that it fools the player into thinking they're seeing the high-quality version. It's all smoke and mirrors, and it costs a lot of time and money to do.

Then there's the graphics themselves. Someone new to graphics development might assume that he can just open a book about physics and directly apply formulas for reflection, refraction, absorption, weight, friction, etc. No such luck. The majority of the time a graphics developer spends on the graphics is spent trying to come up with effective ways to trick the player into thinking he's seeing something that isn't there. That ambient reflection in Mirror's Edge? Precalculated light maps. That awesome collapsing building in the latest Call of Duty game? Precalculated physics. That convincing water refraction? Pixel displacement that looks "good enough". Those pebbles that stick out of the dirt road you're walking on in a fantasy game? Parallax occlusion mapping, making you think there's geometry where there isn't. Those mountains and buildings on the horizon? Flat 2D sprites put where the 3D object should have been.

All this time is spent trying to make convincing imitations of things that normally wouldn't take any research at all to implement, and only because the current generation of consoles is too weak to handle real graphics. Will the new generation be powerful enough to do so? No, but at least it will mean developers can at least use some real principles instead of spending months iterating back and forth in order to fool the customers (in a good way, mind). We're still far away from realtime ray-tracing (where every beam of light is individually calculated), but for every step closer we get, attempts to emulate it get just that little bit simpler.

[metallicorphan]

yeah i guess so ...half of that though TiLT went over my head,so i will take your word for it that games should not get any shorter in length


so,you sound like this next gen console will be a massive shot in the arm for devs(more so than it usually would)..is this because of that 8gig ram thing that they were not expecting?




><><><><><><><><><
Do you remember in the PS4 presentation that Jonathan Blow game called The Witness,i said it reminded me of Zelda Wind Waker graphics,and seems to be a big beautiful island of puzzles

here is the trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk-RsawGjPY


seems its only a Timed Exclusive for PS4
GameInformer

"Our deal with Sony is a limited-time exclusivity that applies to competing console platforms," he wrote. "Basically it is that you will see the game on the PlayStation 4 for a while before you will see it on the Wii U or the rumored next Microsoft console. (We haven’t been disclosed on Microsoft’s next console, so I don’t know anything about that platform besides the rumors that are on the internet). This exclusivity does not prevent us from being on the PC or iOS at launch, for example."

"People have been speculating that we got paid for PS4 exclusivity, but that is not the case," he wrote. "There was no money involved."

So why did he sign the deal?

"The real situation is that, because we are a small developer, we only have the ability to launch on a small number of platforms at once...To launch a high-spec version of the game on a console, it came down to a choice between the next Microsoft console or the next Sony console. There were people at Sony who really liked the game and were keeping in touch with us about it, and so we naturally started going to their PS4 developer events, got a dev kit, and started playing with it. I don’t have good communication with anyone at Microsoft right now, but all our technical people like the PS4 specs a lot more than the leaked Durango specs, and we like the positioning of the PS4 (it’s about games) more than what we perceive Microsoft’s positioning is going to be."

[TiLT]

so,you sound like this next gen console will be a massive shot in the arm for devs(more so than it usually would)..is this because of that 8gig ram thing that they were not expecting?

For the most part yes. I've gone on record (as much as a non-celebrity can anyway ) multiple times throughout this entire generation of consoles, saying that their biggest bottleneck, by far, was their lack of RAM. When the PS3 and 360 were released, they were well ahead of PCs in all regards... except RAM. Developers who might have 512 MB or more of dedicated video RAM on PC, not to speak of its regular RAM, suddenly needed to get very creative about how they used their available resources. They had to cut down on sound effects, AI, persistency, number of NPCs on screen, and other such things that would require fast access to large amounts of data. Those games that had mandatory installs to your HD? They did this because the disc drive wasn't fast enough to compensate for the RAM that they really needed, so the HD became a sort of temporary solution... Except Microsoft stupidly required that all games released for the 360 must work without a HD, a fact that, combined with the lack of RAM, has really held back consoles.

Of all the announced changes to the next generation, the RAM is the biggest game changer. I'm giddy with excitement about the possibilities. No more turning 360 degrees quickly in a GTA game to see that every single car on the road you had been looking at is now replaced with another model, to pick a silly example of something we'll never have to see again.

seems its only a Timed Exclusive for PS4

He actually said this during the presentation, though not with those words. He said something to the effect of: "The Witness will be exclusive to the PS4 in the launch window", which I take to mean roughly 6 months or so. While this isn't the type of game Microsoft typically cares about (notice how all their big exclusives are shooters?), I would be surprised if this doesn't show up on the Durango within 6-12 months of its launch.

[metallicorphan]

No more turning 360 degrees quickly in a GTA game to see that every single car on the road you had been looking at is now replaced with another model, to pick a silly example of something we'll never have to see again.

I do that as well
"Ooh,I'll have that car it looks nice....aww,where's it gone???"

[TiLT]

No more turning 360 degrees quickly in a GTA game to see that every single car on the road you had been looking at is now replaced with another model, to pick a silly example of something we'll never have to see again.

I do that as well
"Ooh,I'll have that car it looks nice....aww,where's it gone???"

Oh yeah, that reminds me of another GTA peculiarity that we'll hopefully never see again thanks to larger amounts of RAM: (GTA V will probably still suffer from this) Limited cars on the road! Ever notice how that car you've been searching all over the place for, the one that seemed impossible to find, appears on almost every street corner after you get one for yourself? You're not just imagining things. The GTA games load only a small selection of car types at any given type, and spawns only cars from that limited selection at any time. If you get a specific car, that car is added to the pool, which means it'll start spawning regularly. More RAM means all car types can be stored in memory, which will eliminate this problem entirely.

[Harpua3]

RAM it hard!

 

[corruptrelic]

No support for CDs?

As technology advances, the storage mediums of today die and new ones are born. The upcoming PlayStation 4 will cease support of a format that Sony's home consoles always have: compact discs.

http://www.psu.com/a018538/PS4-will-not-support-CDs

The PS3 started out having everything.. full backwards compatibility, 4 usb ports, memory card reader, ability to install Linux.. hell of a machine. Over time, Sony took more and more out of the system.

While I'm sure very few of us have played a CD on the PS3, it's (as the other features removed) still a nice feature to have for those that did use it.

Finding it hard to justify paying $60+ on any PS3 game these days knowing it won't be compatible come next generation. As soon as MS announce the Nextbox being BC, I think I'll start investing more money in my 360 that's been collecting dust for months.

[Turtle]

A year into any next gen console's lifespan, you won't be playing older games.

Also, when was the last time you used CDs, except for old legacy devices such as an old car radio?

[CeeKay]

A year into any next gen console's lifespan, you won't be playing older games.

I've been playing Gamecube, SNES, GBA, PS1 and PS2 games on and off, some rather recently.  I wouldn't say next gen kills the desire to play previous gen.

[metallicorphan]

I am planning on playing last gen games when next gen is out......i can't wait to start picking up all the games that are coming out now,but i can't afford,it will be a long time before i am finished with my 360 whether the next box is out or not

[corruptrelic]

Considering I was playing PS2 games on my BC PS3 well past a year of it being out, no doubt I'd do the same with the PS4.
Sadly, my 60GB PS3 died and when upgrading to the Slim, lost my PS2 support. Some of the games I played online when I had it.. couldn't believe that games like Tribes Aerial Assault still had people playing online.

And how many of us still load up Quake 3, Doom, or any other PC game 15 years old from time to time? It's a good thing your PC, no matter how new the hardware, still supports those legacy games.. just as Sony had claimed the Playstation brand would do 'forever'.

I'm old fashioned and still use CDs. If given the option of a physical CD or digital purchase, I go with the CD every time.. yes know we're a dying breed, but we're still out there!

[CeeKay]

I am planning on playing last gen games when next gen is out......i can't wait to start picking up all the games that are coming out now,but i can't afford,it will be a long time before i am finished with my 360 whether the next box is out or not

plus last gen used games will probably be cheaper

[Bullwinkle]

Considering I was playing PS2 games on my BC PS3 well past a year of it being out, no doubt I'd do the same with the PS4.
Sadly, my 60GB PS3 died and when upgrading to the Slim, lost my PS2 support. Some of the games I played online when I had it.. couldn't believe that games like Tribes Aerial Assault still had people playing online.

And how many of us still load up Quake 3, Doom, or any other PC game 15 years old from time to time? It's a good thing your PC, no matter how new the hardware, still supports those legacy games.. just as Sony had claimed the Playstation brand would do 'forever'.

I'm old fashioned and still use CDs. If given the option of a physical CD or digital purchase, I go with the CD every time.. yes know we're a dying breed, but we're still out there!

This. Straight down to the BC PS3 dying.  Up until that happened, I was playing PS2 games on it all the time.  Probably more so than PS3 games, in fact.

And I use CDs daily, Turtle.  And I buy them often.  And I'm not alone.

[Lordnine]

I think the reason backwards compatibility goes away is because the people who really want it are not really their primary demographic.  Even if there are a lot of you, and there probably are, you have pretty much admitted the fact that you mostly buy/play games much later in their life cycles.  If you are not going to buy the latest and greatest on release day at $60 a piece there is little incentive for them to try and keep you happy.

[Turtle]

A year into any next gen console's lifespan, you won't be playing older games.

I've been playing Gamecube, SNES, GBA, PS1 and PS2 games on and off, some rather recently.  I wouldn't say next gen kills the desire to play previous gen.

No, however, Are you playing NES games on your SNES, or Gamecube games on the Wii that much?

The reality is, I'd rather have cheaper hardware to buy, and keep my older hardware if I really want to play older games.

[TiLT]

I think the reason backwards compatibility goes away is because the people who really want it are not really their primary demographic. 

No, it's going away because nobody is willing to pay $100+ extra on top of the regular PS4 price for the luxury of playing PS3 games. That's the minimum of what it'd cost, and nobody would thank Sony for it. There is no primary demographic here. The demographic that would purchase such a thing is so small that, for all practical purposes, it doesn't exist.

And what the heck is up with this discussion anyway? Sony even mentioned in their press conference that they are working on getting PS3-compatibility through their Gaikai-based streaming service, and that quite likely means PS1 and PS2 as well.

[Canuck]

No support for CDs?


Finding it hard to justify paying $60+ on any PS3 game these days knowing it won't be compatible come next generation. As soon as MS announce the Nextbox being BC, I think I'll start investing more money in my 360 that's been collecting dust for months.

CD's? Come on. Sony has given lots of reasons to criticize. Pick something decent. And the new MS console is going to be backwards compatible? Since when? I haven't heard about that yet.  You're talking like it's practically official. Got some insider information?