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Author Topic: Orbis. aka PlayStation 4? The rumors are put to rest.  (Read 52651 times)
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« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2012, 07:03:49 PM »

Quote from: Calavera on March 30, 2012, 06:47:10 PM

Quote from: TiLT on March 30, 2012, 06:10:34 PM

Quote from: Calavera on March 30, 2012, 05:48:27 PM

Many, many years. Decades even.

Decades? Oh come on! I know it sometimes feels like an eternity since certain technological inventions, but let's keep things in perspective. For comparison, the DVD medium wasn't invented until 1995 and was only introduced in a limited form to the US market in 1997. That's a mere 15 years ago that we still had no choice but to use VHS if we wanted to watch film on our own TVs, and those were CRT screens that barely even handled 480p. It took until the new millennium for DVD to start becoming reasonably well adopted by the public at large. We haven't had full HD screens for more than a few years. The Blu-ray format was officially released in 2006 (less than 6 years ago!), and it wasn't even very widely adopted until it won the format wars in 2008.

The new ultra-high resolution formats are coming, and they're coming faster than you might expect. Whether the public will actually adopt them remains to be seen, but initiatives like having gaming consoles support these resolutions will be a major help in getting these resolutions going.

Color NTSC was first broadcast in 1953. NTSC was replaced by ATSC in 2009. So yes, decades. icon_wink Broadcasters are unlikely to switch over their equipment for a 4K spec anytime soon; they're still paying off the capital investment for the ATSC switchover. Keep in mind, too, the HDTV switchover was government mandated in almost all countries. It's not likely a 4K switchover would be. If BluRay isn't pushing 3D TVs at a substantially lower cost than increasing the pixel density of displays, the average consumer isn't going to buy into a higher resolution screen anytime soon.

With the advent of streaming video which is NOT dependent on broadcast signal, that argument is moot. Also, NTSC (lovingly referred to as Never The Same Color) was dependent on analogue vs ATSC's digital. Changing digital standards is simpler in implementation, and if there were a codec that were to hit that was effective as WAV --> MP3 was,  I think that shift would come much quicker (considering a lot of sets out there can now have their firmware flashed).

I think the assumption of decades also ignores Moore's Law - My dad paid over $270 for 4MB of RAM when  Ultima 7 was released (and gifted to me for my birthday). Making sweeping statements like the one you made are a little naive, no?

Retina displays have more pixels per inch than most displays - four years ago, the idea of a $700 tablet having that resolution would have sounded absurd - and compared to the tablets of that time, would have been scoffed at.
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« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2012, 09:17:07 PM »

Quote from: Purge on March 30, 2012, 07:03:49 PM

With the advent of streaming video which is NOT dependent on broadcast signal, that argument is moot. Also, NTSC (lovingly referred to as Never The Same Color) was dependent on analogue vs ATSC's digital. Changing digital standards is simpler in implementation, and if there were a codec that were to hit that was effective as WAV --> MP3 was,  I think that shift would come much quicker (considering a lot of sets out there can now have their firmware flashed).

I think the assumption of decades also ignores Moore's Law - My dad paid over $270 for 4MB of RAM when  Ultima 7 was released (and gifted to me for my birthday). Making sweeping statements like the one you made are a little naive, no?

Retina displays have more pixels per inch than most displays - four years ago, the idea of a $700 tablet having that resolution would have sounded absurd - and compared to the tablets of that time, would have been scoffed at.

NTSC/ATSC are video signal specs, not broadcast specs. They define, among other things, the resolution, frame rate, color space and signal timing. An Atari 2600, NES, SNES, PS1, PS2, Xbox 360, DVD players, etc. are NTSC compliant (Or the better PAL spec if you're in Europe). "DVD Quality" is the actually highest resolution (720x480) the NTSC spec allows for. ATSC defines similar things. Blu-ray players output an ATSC compliant signal. These things change at a glacial pace due to the sheer number of different manufacturers that have to comply with the spec. Unless ATSC gets updated with a 4K spec, 1920x1080 is going to be the highest source resolution on a TV. Don't get me wrong, they could do it quicker if there was massive consumer demand or government intervention. However, the average consumer doesn't care; it's why 720p set are still so common.

Moore's law isn't relevant in a signal spec. The number of transistors or the processing power of the underlying device doesn't matter as long as it complies with the display spec. It's why I can still hook my 14" IBM monitor from 1992 up to my current computer via a VGA port (maxed at 1024x768 resolution, though). It's also why you can play an Atari 2600 on your 27" CRT TV from 1999. Again, specs like these don't change very frequently because it's costly to do so.

'Retina', a great marketing term, just means that the eye can't distinguish individual pixels. At most normal viewing distances, your 720p HDTV would classify as a 'retina' display.
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« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2012, 07:02:50 AM »

Putting aside the finer points of the argument, is it safe to say that we aren't liable to see major changes in this area during the lifetime of the PS4? If not, I go back to the original question, which was what point is there of being capable of a 4k resolution other than for marketing purposes? Nobody has a tv that can display it, and there won't be any games that use it either.
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« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2012, 09:25:05 AM »

Quote from: Misguided on March 31, 2012, 07:02:50 AM

Putting aside the finer points of the argument, is it safe to say that we aren't liable to see major changes in this area during the lifetime of the PS4? If not, I go back to the original question, which was what point is there of being capable of a 4k resolution other than for marketing purposes? Nobody has a tv that can display it, and there won't be any games that use it either.
Sorry guys, I moved yesterday and just caught up and think I explained poorly:
"Also supposedly they are overshooting so they can support 3-d gaming @ 1080p".
Right now the ps3 is capable of outputting a 1080p signal, however it can only render 3d games at 720p.
I don't think their intention with the extra gpu muscle is to output at higher than 1080p resolution but to be able to 'catch up' 3d gaming to the 1080p standard.  I may be very wrong, b/c (after catching up in the thread) many of you are much more informed than me.
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« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2012, 01:53:15 PM »

Quote from: ras752000 on March 31, 2012, 09:25:05 AM

Right now the ps3 is capable of outputting a 1080p signal, however it can only render 3d games at 720p.

This isn't correct. While most games do indeed run at 720p I have games that support 1080p, unless you're saying they are being upscaled rather than 'natively' rendering at 1080p?  icon_confused
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« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2012, 02:23:31 PM »

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on March 31, 2012, 01:53:15 PM

Quote from: ras752000 on March 31, 2012, 09:25:05 AM

Right now the ps3 is capable of outputting a 1080p signal, however it can only render 3d games at 720p.
This isn't correct. While most games do indeed run at 720p I have games that support 1080p, unless you're saying they are being upscaled rather than 'natively' rendering at 1080p?  icon_confused

Yes, both the 360 and PS3 do that. For example, if memory serves, the Call of Duty series doesn't even render at 720p. It's something like 640p or so so they can keep up the framerate. Both consoles have good scaler systems that upscale the image to whatever resolution your TV is running at.

That's the 'weakness' of the current generation consoles - neither of them render an image natively at 1080p (with some exceptions AFAIK) and that's what next generation's tech will allow them to do.
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« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2012, 04:35:03 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on March 31, 2012, 02:23:31 PM

Yes, both the 360 and PS3 do that. For example, if memory serves, the Call of Duty series doesn't even render at 720p. It's something like 640p or so so they can keep up the framerate. Both consoles have good scaler systems that upscale the image to whatever resolution your TV is running at.

That's the 'weakness' of the current generation consoles - neither of them render an image natively at 1080p (with some exceptions AFAIK) and that's what next generation's tech will allow them to do.

Not sure on CoD, but I know that is the case with Halo. So, we're talking about the next gen being able to render natively at 1080p with all the DX11(?) bells and whistles while still pushing a solid frame rate. Fair enough.
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« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2012, 07:28:53 PM »

Booo on no backwards compatibility. There's no real reason why they can't have it at this point as there's less of a difference than between the PS2 and PS3. The only big difference will be the increased power between the two, and I don't think there'd be a need for emulation like with the PS2 compatibility.
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« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2012, 07:36:51 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on March 31, 2012, 02:23:31 PM

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on March 31, 2012, 01:53:15 PM

Quote from: ras752000 on March 31, 2012, 09:25:05 AM

Right now the ps3 is capable of outputting a 1080p signal, however it can only render 3d games at 720p.
This isn't correct. While most games do indeed run at 720p I have games that support 1080p, unless you're saying they are being upscaled rather than 'natively' rendering at 1080p?  icon_confused

Yes, both the 360 and PS3 do that. For example, if memory serves, the Call of Duty series doesn't even render at 720p. It's something like 640p or so so they can keep up the framerate. Both consoles have good scaler systems that upscale the image to whatever resolution your TV is running at.

That's the 'weakness' of the current generation consoles - neither of them render an image natively at 1080p (with some exceptions AFAIK) and that's what next generation's tech will allow them to do.

Apparently both consoles can indeed render natively at 1080p, it's just that most games (or deveopers) either don't or can't take advantage of it. Found an interesting discussion here on the subject.
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« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2012, 07:42:51 PM »

Quote from: Rumpy on March 31, 2012, 07:28:53 PM

Booo on no backwards compatibility. There's no real reason why they can't have it at this point as there's less of a difference than between the PS2 and PS3. The only big difference will be the increased power between the two, and I don't think there'd be a need for emulation like with the PS2 compatibility.

Huh? What do you base that information on? According to the rumors, the new Playstation will have a very different CPU layout than the PS3. Creating full, bug-free backwards compatibility is extremely complex in such cases. They have to write a wrapper that translates commands between PS3 expectations and the actual way the PS4 works. Every single game would have to be tested to make sure it works. It's one hellishly expensive thing to do, and it doesn't really matter in the end anyway. Backwards compatibility has proven to not be very important anyway, despite the complaining from some people. It's cute when people say they'll skip the entire next generation of consoles because of lack of compatibility. We all know that's not going to happen, in the same way it didn't happen for the current generation.
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« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2012, 07:50:41 PM »

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on March 31, 2012, 07:36:51 PM

Apparently both consoles can indeed render natively at 1080p, it's just that most games (or deveopers) either don't or can't take advantage of it. Found an interesting discussion here on the subject.

The reason why developers usually don't take advantage of 1080p is simple. 720p has 921,600 pixels. 1080p has 2,073,600. That's more than twice as many pixels a game has to render for a feature most players probably won't even notice. It's an easy trade-off for developers to drop down to 720p or even less. Using the GPU for special effects has considerably more of a graphical impact on the player than rendering a bunch of extra pixels would.
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« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2012, 09:01:17 PM »

on the plus side I don't have any PS3 games that I'd miss with no backwards compatibility, unlike the PS2 ones that I have a PS2 slim sitting around for.
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« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2012, 12:13:58 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on March 31, 2012, 07:42:51 PM

Quote from: Rumpy on March 31, 2012, 07:28:53 PM

Booo on no backwards compatibility. There's no real reason why they can't have it at this point as there's less of a difference than between the PS2 and PS3. The only big difference will be the increased power between the two, and I don't think there'd be a need for emulation like with the PS2 compatibility.

Huh? What do you base that information on? According to the rumors, the new Playstation will have a very different CPU layout than the PS3. Creating full, bug-free backwards compatibility is extremely complex in such cases. They have to write a wrapper that translates commands between PS3 expectations and the actual way the PS4 works. Every single game would have to be tested to make sure it works. It's one hellishly expensive thing to do, and it doesn't really matter in the end anyway. Backwards compatibility has proven to not be very important anyway, despite the complaining from some people. It's cute when people say they'll skip the entire next generation of consoles because of lack of compatibility. We all know that's not going to happen, in the same way it didn't happen for the current generation.

Just based on conjecture like most of everything in this thread. I'm just saying that it doesn't seem like such a leap compared to when they did it with PS2 backwards compatibility. When you look at a PS2 vs a PS3, you can see a bigger difference between the two in terms of what they're able to display. But I doubt we'll see much of an advance graphically with the new generation. So, far from what we've heard, it seems to me that the PS4 would be more similar to the PS3 compared to how the PS3 was to the PS2. And I do think that there are a lot of good PS3 games, namely some of the exclusives, that people would love to play on the PS4 and that could perhaps take advantage of the PS4's processing power, where they've lagged a bit on the PS3. That can't be done by now?
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« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2012, 02:22:26 AM »

I bought the God of war collection for the ps3. I didn't miss backward compatability at all.  I would rather play the old games remastered for the new hardware if at all.   
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« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2012, 04:49:06 AM »

Yeah, I guess there is that, which I forgot about. They're popular games, so we'd likely get to play updated versions of our favourite games, like say, Uncharted 2? Can't really see how that could be improved upon though.
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« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2012, 04:50:13 AM »

Quote from: Morgul on April 01, 2012, 02:22:26 AM

I bought the God of war collection for the ps3. I didn't miss backward compatability at all.  I would rather play the old games remastered for the new hardware if at all.  

Same here. I had a original 40 gig ps3 w bc. Used it on a small handful of games at best. After I got my slim, never one have I missed it. I like the idea of bc, but I could really take it or leave it..
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« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2012, 09:01:02 PM »

Some more rumors according to a "source":



http://www.product-reviews.net/2012/07/12/ps4-specs-10x-power-of-ps3/
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« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2012, 09:05:42 AM »

Those are believable. Very much off the shelf specs.

2GB of memory is going to mean a lot more for console games than anything else.

But, the most important thing isn't the hardware, it's the software and developer support behind it. Hardware is only second. Let's hope Sony realizes that this time around.
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« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2012, 12:38:16 PM »

Looks incremental. Hardware rarely makes me go oooo... though I recall that PS3 had the edge on hardware over 360 - and that didn't help it as much as it did that BD was being pushed by the movie market.

It won't have the same advantage this time around - and with 50-70 BD players out there, they're now competing on a different playing field.

I hope they do well, but I'm not holding my breath.
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« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2012, 12:45:15 PM »

well those specs are all Greek to me,so are they good then?

I know the memory for PS3 is split into 256 each for two things,that's about all i know Tongue
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« Reply #60 on: August 23, 2012, 12:07:41 PM »

Playstation 4K?

Quote
Sony's next-generation PlayStation 4 console will support ultra HD '4K Resolution' displays, according to a new rumour.

Citing an anonymous source, Yahoo reports that the next-gen console will be capable of pumping out the super-high-resolution images expected to be possible on a rumored new 4K resolution TV from Sony.
Just as the PS3 was key in the establishment of Blu-ray HD and, later, 3D content, the PS4's super HD capability will apparently come as part of Sony's plan to push the new 4K resolution tech out to consumers.

4K resolution is the term used in digital cinematography to broadly describe a resolution (pixel count) of around 4000 pixels horizontally on a display. This is similar to 'Ultra HD', or 'Quad Full High Definition' (QFHD), which at 3840x2160, is exactly four times today's full HD resolution of 1920x1080.

According to the report, the PS4's 4K resolution support will span both movies and games, the latter of which would prove mightily impressive if true.

PS3 is capable of 1920x1080 resolution, but only a small number of games manage to run at that spec, so 3840x2160 or higher at 60 frames-per-second would be incredible (if a little hard to believe at this point).


Can't say i am excited as many of you guys may be,i just bought a new HDTV Tongue..the picture is damn fine,just how great can the picture get?...but my main worry really if this is true is how much the PS4 will cost on launch and just how needed is it?,and SONY could be taking a bit of a gamble if it has the same kind of start as the PS3,with SONY not exactly in a great financial position of late
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« Reply #61 on: August 23, 2012, 12:19:42 PM »

The 4k thing was one of the first rumors that appeared IIRC, so that's nothing new. The new Playstation is probably not going to be powerful enough to use 4k for anything but movies and certain 2D games, much in the same way that the current consoles aren't powerful enough to handle full HD (or even 720p in most cases). Microsoft probably isn't going to bother with 4k, which may or may not be a smart move. Sony succeeded with their Blu-ray gambit this generation even though they were initially criticized quite a bit for it, so I wouldn't be surprised to see 4k succeed because of a similar move with the next gen. When you stop to think about it, cell phones are starting to have the same resolution as the highest-fidelity console games today, with a massive difference in screen size. As people get more and more used to this kind of DPI, 1080p will start to look less and less impressive.

It's hard to speculate on who will "win" the next generation and for what reasons. For various reasons neither the 360 or the PS3 managed to stand out as particularly much better than the other in this generation. This is somewhat unlikely to happen next time, in my opinion. The ideas about what a console was and what it should do were pretty similar back then, but right now Sony and Microsoft disagree about where things are heading. Microsoft is likely to put a lot of effort into promoting Kinect as an essential and inbuilt new control system for the next gen, while Sony will probably focus much more on traditional but advanced technology. Ironically, especially when you consider how this generation started, I expect Microsoft to aim for a "complete" entertainment experience from the get-go this time, while Sony is likely to focus much more on the games themselves.
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« Reply #62 on: August 23, 2012, 01:16:03 PM »

I'll be very surprised if people move en masse to 4K displays before 2020 - at least in the living room.  The cost is currently prohibitively expensive, and we've just finished the biggest seismic shift in display technology since the transition to color.  I predict a huge backlash from consumers if Sony and others try pushing 4K as the new standard anytime soon.

Not to mention that in your typical living room scenario, most people don't have the visual acuity to see the difference between 1080p and 4K.  Tablets and phones are a different story - they are used inches away from the eyes, not 6-10 feet.  At that distance it's much easier to notice the difference in resolution, and a 4" high DPI display is much cheaper to manufacture than a 50" display.  

Not saying it won't happen eventually, but if Sony expects the PS4 to drive adoption of 4K displays, they're in for a rude awakening.
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« Reply #63 on: August 23, 2012, 01:53:07 PM »

Quote from: Laner on August 23, 2012, 01:16:03 PM

I'll be very surprised if people move en masse to 4K displays before 2020 - at least in the living room.  The cost is currently prohibitively expensive, and we've just finished the biggest seismic shift in display technology since the transition to color.  I predict a huge backlash from consumers if Sony and others try pushing 4K as the new standard anytime soon.

They don't have to push it. They just have to support it. If 4k displays eventually become reasonably popular within the next generation, that would give Sony a late-game major advantage against Microsoft. I very much doubt that 4k is something that would receive much support early on with the console, from Sony or from anyone else.
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« Reply #64 on: August 23, 2012, 03:16:11 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on March 29, 2012, 03:30:32 PM

They took away our used games on PC, and I haven't heard of anyone abandoning the platform for that.  I just hope that the console market has an impact on pricing like the PC market did.  Prices seem stickier on console games to me than they do on the PC side.

Price is the difference.  My PC games come exclusively from Steam Summer and Holiday sales at this point - I pay $30 at the max for a AAA game, and $5 for most of them.  When I can buy console games for $5 - $30 then they can take used games off the table without it being as big a deal.
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« Reply #65 on: August 23, 2012, 05:56:50 PM »

Quote from: Laner on August 23, 2012, 01:16:03 PM


Not to mention that in your typical living room scenario, most people don't have the visual acuity to see the difference between 1080p and 4K.  Tablets and phones are a different story - they are used inches away from the eyes, not 6-10 feet.  At that distance it's much easier to notice the difference in resolution, and a 4" high DPI display is much cheaper to manufacture than a 50" display.  
12" tablet 2' away = 50"+ display 10' away (roughly).   Heard the same thing about 720p vs 1080p but I could see a difference even on smaller tvs.
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« Reply #66 on: December 24, 2012, 08:12:13 PM »

it's off to a great start(!)...if real

Ex-'SONY Employee'-I don't have a lot of confidence that the Orbis will sell well




It's funny because what he says is what i would say to MS right now
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« Reply #67 on: December 25, 2012, 04:11:30 AM »

That's from Kotaku, renown for posting any bit of drivel they can find, then relying on confirmation bias to make them seem more legit.

Besides, that post really isn't saying anything we don't already know. Which is, again, exactly what Kotaku does.
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« Reply #68 on: January 03, 2013, 04:22:49 PM »

That nasty 'no pre-owned' rumour has popped up again

SONY patent Pre-Owned Games Block

While i can see how it would be good for Video Game Publishers/developers(i think),i can't say i would be happy about it..i often lend games to my sister and borrow them off her,this way that would be out of the window

Plus side though,at least my game collection would grow,although it would probably be at a much slower pace than me buying games at the moment
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« Reply #69 on: January 31, 2013, 11:27:13 PM »

Announced Feb 20?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d-3GMHIgR-U
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« Reply #70 on: January 31, 2013, 11:54:40 PM »

interesting.  Kaz Hirai was suggesting that they'd let MS announce first.  I also heard the dualshock may be changing this time around, but I'm feeling to lazy to google for the article.
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« Reply #71 on: February 01, 2013, 12:49:44 AM »

ah, didn't even have to search for it:

DualShock Design Reportedly Being Replaced With Next PlayStation

of course we all remember the boomerang controller.

« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 12:51:44 AM by CeeKay » Logged

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« Reply #72 on: February 01, 2013, 01:00:32 AM »

Quote from: leo8877 on January 31, 2013, 11:27:13 PM


Huh. Either that or they're going to announce some kind of new UberAmazingVita console package.
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« Reply #73 on: February 01, 2013, 01:51:15 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on February 01, 2013, 12:49:44 AM

ah, didn't even have to search for it:

DualShock Design Reportedly Being Replaced With Next PlayStation

of course we all remember the boomerang controller.



I wasn't a fan of the boomerang but I do really hope they do feel like they can get further away from the Dual Shock design.  I thought the 360 gamepad is the best and most comfortable I've ever used.
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« Reply #74 on: February 01, 2013, 01:51:56 AM »

Quote from: Destructor on February 01, 2013, 01:00:32 AM

Quote from: leo8877 on January 31, 2013, 11:27:13 PM


Huh. Either that or they're going to announce some kind of new UberAmazingVita console package.

The PS3 Even Slimmer Edition that does not include a blu ray drive?  icon_wink
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« Reply #75 on: February 01, 2013, 05:36:29 AM »

I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited about this announcement. Here's my predictions for things that will be revealed at the press conference:

- Near 100% backwards compatibility with PS1, PS2 and PS3, but not native. To access this compatibility you must use the streaming service that will be announced at the same time. Instead of having the PS4 handle the compatibility, Sony's streaming servers deal with it for you. You will have access to all your PS Plus and PS Store titles this way. PS Plus may or may not be required to use this service in the first place.
- Tight integration with Vita as a controller, but also in other ways that will remind people of the Wii U.
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« Reply #76 on: February 01, 2013, 06:51:19 AM »

About the controller. Yeah, we remember the boomerang controller, but I also remember so many people poo pooing it without trying it. And for that matter, I also memember so many people ragging on the dual shock 3, with good reason.

So honestly, the community can't have it both ways, you can't clamor to keep things the same, and you can't clamor to make it different.

As for the console, I don't think it's going to use the streaming, I think Sony just bought Gaikai for it's overall network capabilities, including their access to low latency backbones and work done in that area. As we all know, PSN had a lot of issues with speed. I think they'll be going to route of MS, only some titles are getting software backwards compatibility, just like the 360 had at launch. So just some first party games, the most popular ones, and a number of 2013 and late 2012 recent releases.

The Vita as a controller seems to be a given, although I do think they'll redo the vita's form factor for just this purpose, or make the default controller use Vita parts.

I'm excited for this mainly because I know it's going to push developers, especially PC developers to make use of the PC graphics technologies that so far have not been used at all, except for superficial uses.

Let's just hope Sony has actually learned something from this overall horrific generation for them. If not for the amazing first party games they had put out, the PS3 would have been a complete bust. Here's to hoping they understand now that software, third party developer support, internet capability, as well as a robust marketplace is the way to recapture their market.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 06:53:48 AM by Turtle » Logged
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« Reply #77 on: February 01, 2013, 06:52:08 AM »

My body is ready.

Wait...
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« Reply #78 on: February 01, 2013, 07:38:38 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on February 01, 2013, 06:51:19 AM

Let's just hope Sony has actually learned something from this overall horrific generation for them. If not for the amazing first party games they had put out, the PS3 would have been a complete bust. Here's to hoping they understand now that software, third party developer support, internet capability, as well as a robust marketplace is the way to recapture their market.

That's why I think streaming is going to be an integral part of the platform for backwards compatibility. They don't have to spend money to make the PS4 backwards compatible, and they make an enormous amount of old games available through their own store through technology they already possess. To me it seems like a no-brainer and a win-win. It's something Microsoft would be entirely unable to compete with.
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« Reply #79 on: February 01, 2013, 11:35:49 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on February 01, 2013, 06:51:19 AM

Let's just hope Sony has actually learned something from this overall horrific generation for them. If not for the amazing first party games they had put out, the PS3 would have been a complete bust. Here's to hoping they understand now that software, third party developer support, internet capability, as well as a robust marketplace is the way to recapture their market.

If Sony had a horrific generation and very close to a complete bust as you claim than poor Microsoft should just get out of the console business.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-01-09-idc-game-consoles-discs-to-remain-revenue-mainstays-for-years-to-come.

That's while launching a year later even.  Plus I would venture that the PS3 had at least a decent part in Sony winning HD format war.
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