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Author Topic: Oblivion - Next download details/pricing emerge  (Read 1714 times)
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Nth Power
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« on: April 08, 2006, 01:56:53 AM »

From 1UP :

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You heard right. The upcoming Orrery -- which should be available next week -- and Wizard's Tower downloads feature actual, quest-based content, yet only cost players $1.89 on the PC or 150 points ($2.00) on Xbox 360. "...we're still trying to find the right spot, so we're putting a much larger plugin out for less than the last one and we'll see what happens," said the company on their message board


Quote
The Orrery
The Orrery allows you to help the Mages Guild of Cyrodiil repair the Imperial Orrery, an ancient dwarven machine with mystical properties. Bandits have stolen a shipment of parts destined for the Arcane University; if you can return them, the Orrery will function once more.

A new, full-featured quest, including dialogue, journals, and rewards
Access to the Imperial Orrery in the Arcane University, an incredible mechanical marvel
New powers available for your character based on the phases of the moons
Wizard's Tower
Located high in the Jeral Mountains of Cyrodiil away from prying eyes, this Wizard's Tower, Frostcrag Spire, will become available. Packed with numerous useful enhancements, this structure will prove invaluable to magic-oriented characters.


A fully detailed tower for you to explore
A breathtaking view of Cyrodiil from the highest point in the land
Simple furnishings including a bed for leveling up
An indoor botanical garden with over 130 specimens, including Oblivion-native herbs
Summon Atronach Familiars that obey your commands
Instant teleports to every Mages Guild in Cyrodiil
New Spell and Recharge vendor in the Imperial City
Fully upgrade the furnishings in your lair to suit your needs
Upgrade to a fully functional Enchanting and Spellmaking station with no need to join Mages Guild
Upgrade to a laboratory that buffs your Alchemy skill


This sounds much better than the horse armor mod.  I wouldn't mind spending the $2.00 for these.

Full details here.
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Doopri
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2006, 02:03:02 AM »

shhhh nth while im stoked about this much better mod too, we should all bitch again and maybe we can eek even crazier stuff out of them for less!!!

hehehe but seriously its cool that they got the hint that the last "mod" def wasnt up to snuff and are at least attempting to find something more acceptable to us
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2006, 12:52:03 PM »

biggrin  biggrin  biggrin  biggrin  :o  :o  :shock:  :shock:

YAY!
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2006, 01:31:27 PM »

I would probably buy those since they add actual content to the game, but still, what happened to FREE downloadable content?  Can you imagine the uproar if Ubisoft had charged $2.00 each for all the extras they gave us with the Ghost Recon series on the Xbox?  

It just looks like the FREE content that Microsoft billed as one of the features of Xbox Live is going by the wayside.  Now everyone wants to charge for every little thing that they put up.  20 points for a gamer picture, 150-200 points for a theme.  Don't get me wrong, I have bought a lot of stuff off of the Marketplace and I think it's great that it's there, but it does indeed look like the free content for games is gone...except for Namco.  :lol:
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2006, 01:49:27 PM »

Quote from: "The_Man"
but it does indeed look like the free content for games is gone...except for Namco.  :lol:


Don't forget that Kameo gave away free co-op multiplayer.  I think there will still probably be free stuff from time to time, but buying things will be the majority.  I'm cool with it, too.
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2006, 06:03:07 PM »

$2.00, which is 4% of the game's price, for less than 1% of the game in new content?  No fucking way.

At least these things will be easy to pirate.
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2006, 06:11:36 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
$2.00, which is 4% of the game's price, for less than 1% of the game in new content?  No fucking way.

At least these things will be easy to pirate.


I don't think you can pirate content on the 360.  I'm sure you can on the pc, but according to Microsoft,  you can only use downloadable content with the profile it was downloaded under.
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2006, 07:09:20 PM »

Quote from: "The_Man"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
$2.00, which is 4% of the game's price, for less than 1% of the game in new content?  No fucking way.

At least these things will be easy to pirate.


I don't think you can pirate content on the 360.  I'm sure you can on the pc, but according to Microsoft,  you can only use downloadable content with the profile it was downloaded under.
Yeah, you couldn't pirate them on the 360.  At least, as far as I understand the 360 architecture (admittedly, not very deeply), you can't.

An update about the p-word:  after reading GT and QT3's threads about these micropayment updates, I stopped by the official Oblivion forums to see what their reaction was.

It's a mess, to put it lightly.  Apparently people are routinely posting links to free (pirated?)* versions of these plugins, and the admins have to play whack-a-mole around the clock to get the threads deleted and accounts banned.

And in some real groupthink joy, any forum threads which are created with the intent of negatively portraying the pay-for-assrape module bullshit are closed and/or deleted as soon as a mod can get to them.

The mod forum is especially pissed off:  in order to keep official Bethesda mods superior to player content, (and to prevent identical, player-made free versions from springing up), Bethesda has intentionally crippled the Oblivion mod tools, specifically leaving out the ability to edit existing or add new models.

Now, the fanboi apologist response is, Bethesda intends to add model editing later.  The conspiracy theorist response is, this is Bethesda's permanent business plan.  The average user is just confused (and unwilling to shell out $2 for dumbass horse armor).  I haven't seen any links to official Bethesda responses about model editing, either for or against.  While both sides are happy to claim Bethesda said this or kept quiet about that, neither side has been able to provide any evidence.

All in all, a messy situation that can't help but smell a little bit like sewage.  Is Bethesda walking in EA's footsteps?


*Are these mods even capable of being considered piratable?  If so, why aren't individual users able to charge money for their own mods?  Is it even a crime, and if so, what crime would it be?
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2006, 07:19:19 PM »

More:

From an Evil Avatar interview with Pene Hines:

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[Evil Avatar]: What about free mods on the 360? Will we be seeing any of the popular PC mods from the user community showing up on Live?

Pete Hines: Right now we don't have plans to do any free mods. We don't ever get involved with fan-created content, on any platform, so taking some of that and releasing it on Live is not something we'd ever do.


Emphasis mine.

gogo Pete Hines.  My new least favorite person in the industry.

Also, apparently a few observant Oblivion forumgoers have noticed some things in the shipped version that suggest the content of these mods was originally in the game, but was later taken out -- probably for time reasons, but instead of being re-added in a later free patch, like most non-cocksucking devs do, Bethesda chose the fellatious option of actually charging you for the privilege of being their customer.

Threads providing evidence of these mods being in the original game are, of course, closed and deleted.  The only proof I've been able to dig up so far is in-game dialog that mentions the Orrery (the forthcoming mod) as if it were already in-game.
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2006, 09:53:07 PM »

I know everyone wants to go all conspiracy theory on Bethesda chargin for content that they couldhave put in and all that.  However, it isn't like the game doesn't already have more content than most will actually see in the game.  If it was a 10 hour game and then they charged for another 10 hours by breaking it up into 10 $5 chunks, I could see the anger.  This game supposedly has 200 hours of content.  I don't feel they're trying to rip me off by adding a few quests here and there for $2 a pop.

Now, I also don't thyink they ripped content out to charge.  I will give an example.  There is mention of the Orrery in the Mage's Guild.  It's the locked door in the lobby at the Arcane University.  There is a lady who runs it and she mentions it and mentions it is in disrepair.  Now, there is a module about to be released which gives you the quest to get it fixed and then use it.  I don't think it was in there and ripped out, but instead they had all these mods planned already and put content in the game to kind of hint at it since they knew they would be releasing it so close to the launch of the game.  However, consipirists will be consipirists and people like you are just more the glass is half empty type.

Nobody has been cheated at all with content being added to a game with so much content in it already.  If people don't want it, they don't buy it.  Pure and simple.  Nobody has been cheated and nobody owes them any free content.
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2006, 10:27:03 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "The_Man"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
$2.00, which is 4% of the game's price, for less than 1% of the game in new content?  No fucking way.

At least these things will be easy to pirate.


I don't think you can pirate content on the 360.  I'm sure you can on the pc, but according to Microsoft,  you can only use downloadable content with the profile it was downloaded under.
Yeah, you couldn't pirate them on the 360.  At least, as far as I understand the 360 architecture (admittedly, not very deeply), you can't.

An update about the p-word:  after reading GT and QT3's threads about these micropayment updates, I stopped by the official Oblivion forums to see what their reaction was.

It's a mess, to put it lightly.  Apparently people are routinely posting links to free (pirated?)* versions of these plugins, and the admins have to play whack-a-mole around the clock to get the threads deleted and accounts banned.

And in some real groupthink joy, any forum threads which are created with the intent of negatively portraying the pay-for-assrape module bullshit are closed and/or deleted as soon as a mod can get to them.

The mod forum is especially pissed off:  in order to keep official Bethesda mods superior to player content, (and to prevent identical, player-made free versions from springing up), Bethesda has intentionally crippled the Oblivion mod tools, specifically leaving out the ability to edit existing or add new models.

Now, the fanboi apologist response is, Bethesda intends to add model editing later.  The conspiracy theorist response is, this is Bethesda's permanent business plan.  The average user is just confused (and unwilling to shell out $2 for dumbass horse armor).  I haven't seen any links to official Bethesda responses about model editing, either for or against.  While both sides are happy to claim Bethesda said this or kept quiet about that, neither side has been able to provide any evidence.

All in all, a messy situation that can't help but smell a little bit like sewage.  Is Bethesda walking in EA's footsteps?


*Are these mods even capable of being considered piratable?  If so, why aren't individual users able to charge money for their own mods?  Is it even a crime, and if so, what crime would it be?


Gee it wouldn't have anything to do with the HAVOK physicis engine that there is no exporter for model editing.  They are in a sticky situation right now because of this liscensing.  If you hadn't been banned from OO you would have been able to read Kathode's explanation about this very situation.
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2006, 10:57:18 PM »

Quote from: "DiscoJason"
I know everyone wants to go all conspiracy theory on Bethesda chargin for content that they couldhave put in and all that.  However, it isn't like the game doesn't already have more content than most will actually see in the game.  If it was a 10 hour game and then they charged for another 10 hours by breaking it up into 10 $5 chunks, I could see the anger.  This game supposedly has 200 hours of content.  I don't feel they're trying to rip me off by adding a few quests here and there for $2 a pop.

No supposedly - I finally beat the game, and I clocked in at just a bit over 105 hours. And I only finished one of the main Guilds. Will I go through the game again? More than likely.

Quote from: "Arkon"
Gee it wouldn't have anything to do with the HAVOK physicis engine that there is no exporter for model editing.  They are in a sticky situation right now because of this liscensing.  If you hadn't been banned from OO you would have been able to read Kathode's explanation about this very situation.

Care to post that link? I'd love to read all about Bethesda and their Havok work. It would answer many a question, methinks.
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« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2006, 12:10:33 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Apparently people are routinely posting links to free (pirated?)* versions of these plugins, and the admins have to play whack-a-mole around the clock to get the threads deleted and accounts banned.


They've had to play whack-a-mole with every forum flare-up that's ever happened.  There have been people posting links to pirated copies of Morrowind steadily since that came out.  We've got something like twenty volunteer mods from around the world, so they're used to it, and do quite a good job.

Quote
And in some real groupthink joy, any forum threads which are created with the intent of negatively portraying the pay-for-assrape module bullshit are closed and/or deleted as soon as a mod can get to them.

Not entirely true.  All the threads are condensed into one official thread to avoid the whole topic taking over the entire forum.  We've done this with every controversy we've had - shadows, levitation, etc.  The hits keep on coming slywink

Quote
Bethesda has intentionally crippled the Oblivion mod tools, specifically leaving out the ability to edit existing or add new models.

Not true, we've said on the official forum and I've said elsewhere that it's being looked into.  The Morrowind one took a long while to get out as well, and we didn't have as many license headaches to deal with on that one.

Quote
Also, apparently a few observant Oblivion forumgoers have noticed some things in the shipped version that suggest the content of these mods was originally in the game, but was later taken out --


This is simply false.  If we had them but then took them out, why didn't we have the mods out on day 1 for people to pay for?  We talked all along about doing downloadable content, you can go back in old interviews and see for yourself.  It shouldn't be shocking that we planned ahead and included a door to the Orrery and a dialog snippet to raise some interest.  The Orrery is a big place - a lot of special art assets.  Check out my artist's comment on Shacknews about how he did a 12 hour a day, seven day a week crunch AFTER the full Oblivion crunch because he wanted to make it the best he possibly could.
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« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2006, 12:40:01 AM »

Quote from: "DiscoJason"
This game supposedly has 200 hours of content.  I don't feel they're trying to rip me off by adding a few quests here and there for $2 a pop.
Well, what do you think about the comparative percentages I mentioned above?  If we use your 200 hour bookend:  

$2 is 4% of $50.  The 30 minute quest (typical Oblivion quest if you use fasttravel, which means explicitly the new content) you get for $2 is 0.25% of 200 hours.

That's a sixteen fold increase in the cost of content to the end user.  So unless these $2 quests are gigantic 1-2 hour long affairs, it's just not worth it.

Have your artists work on an expansion instead of this micro-bullshit.  And have your scripters and programmers and whatever work on a patch.  Unless you're going to start charging for those too?
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« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2006, 12:51:01 AM »

Quote from: "kathode"
Not true, we've said on the official forum and I've said elsewhere that it's being looked into.  The Morrowind one took a long while to get out as well, and we didn't have as many license headaches to deal with on that one.

Why be so nebulous?  Ounce of prevention, pound of cure, etc.  If it's a Havok-related wait, just say that.  Right now it sounds like "Pete can't decide how far to shaft you suckers."  Of course, if that actually is the case, your current vague holding pattern is the best PR course of action.

Quote
It shouldn't be shocking that we planned ahead and included a door to the Orrery and a dialog snippet to raise some interest.

You mean to advertise.  Let's call a rube a rube here.

Quote
The Orrery is a big place - a lot of special art assets.  Check out my artist's comment on Shacknews about how he did a 12 hour a day, seven day a week crunch AFTER the full Oblivion crunch because he wanted to make it the best he possibly could.
No, he wanted to get his paycheck and keep his job.  If he, or Pete Hines, or Bethesda's marketing department, or whoever made the crack-headed decision of charging for this nonsense gave a shit about making Oblivion 'the best they could,' these mini-mods would be free just like Morrowind's mini-mods were.  It'd be a gift to the customer -- thanks for buying our game, thanks for the patronage, here's some stuff that didn't make it into release, or projects that we used to train newbs, or whatever, hope you guys enjoy it.  See:  Brad Wardell and GalCiv & GalCiv2.

It's the other way around in your case.  Bethesda is not honored by our patronage, WE should be honored to witness BETHESDA'S wisdom and aptitude for design.  

It's arrogant, scummy, and downright offensive, and I hope Pete Hines fucking chokes on it.
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« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2006, 01:16:20 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
It's arrogant, scummy, and downright offensive, and I hope Pete Hines fucking chokes on it.

Good fucking God. It's like Bethesda killed your dog or something. Either that or you think they're the next Hitler or something. Calm down.

If you don't like it, you don't buy it. Nobody is ever forcing you to do so.

It's very simple - Bethesda is trying a new way to generate revenue after the game's release. Making money is always a good thing. And if people keep buying these micro expansions, Bethesda will keep making them.
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« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2006, 03:39:43 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Why be so nebulous?

We have Havok, SpeedTree, FaceGen, and NDL (who is not NDL but Emergent) stuff to deal with.  The details of the contractual hurdles and red tape would freeze your brain solid.

Quote
You mean to advertise.  Let's call a rube a rube here.

Well you know, if you had a giant dwarven moving model of the solar system in your next room, you might have a "dialog snippet" about it yourself!  

Quote
No, he wanted to get his paycheck and keep his job.

Nah. He did it because that's what he does.  Read his post, I don't know how it could be made any more obvious that this stuff is his passion.

Quote
It's arrogant, scummy, and downright offensive, and I hope Pete Hines fucking chokes on it.

Come on LE, no one is sitting around wishing for your death.  At least no one I know.  You can be angry if you want, but there's no reason to get angry over reasons that are pure speculation at best.  All I'm trying to do is correct your bad information.
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« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2006, 03:51:28 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
I hope Pete Hines fucking chokes on it.

You need to cut this immature shit out or find somewhere else to post it.  You certainly don't have to like the game, the company or anyone who works there.  You're also welcome to be critical and voice that opinion.  But we do like to be a friendly site for devs and others to show up and post and we actively cultivate working relationships with them for other (non-forum) site business.

Comments like yours makes it hard to imagine why a dev would consider hanging around here.  If it's a choice between a) our forums being friendly to developers or b) us being tolerant of you making childish statements like the one above about an industry contact we value then it's really not much of a choice.

Think very carefully before you make another post in a Bethseda/Oblivion thread.
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« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2006, 04:23:26 AM »

I still think the pricing model is something that I would avoid given the availability of free PC mods. Unfortunately, my PC doesn't play Oblivion worth a damn so I am out of luck. Still, I can't see spending the money even though I love Oblivion on 360.
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« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2006, 05:02:43 AM »

I'm function over form.  I'll pay for the Orrey, I'll skip the pallet swap horse armor.
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« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2006, 06:25:46 AM »

I feel like I'm the only person who wants more of these official mods. I look at what's currently being offered, and I really hope they start coming out with a lot of them. If they can start producing some really high quality mods (good quests, good voice acting, good artists, ect), I'll just eat it up. $2 is nothing, and if it can add more to this game I'm all for it.

I may  only buy 1 out of 4 or 5 mods they come out with - but the fact that I get to choose and go "hey, adding a new dragon creature into a game with a plotline and new caverns in the mountains sounds pretty interesting." or "wow, customizable house paintings, that sounds lame!" - I get to pick or choose what content is in the game, and it'll fit right in.

Now, Oblivion will always have fan-built mods that are fantastic. But if anything - I think this will make the official mods be higher in quality, and actually compete with small time mod teams for sales. As long as they official mods contiune to expand the game, do offer interesting quality, and keep in line with the small pricing, I'm all for it.

Of course, I really hope that Beth chooses to release free content now and then, too. However, I don't mind paying for it if Beth will be competitive for my purchase and create products that are worth putting down the money for.
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« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2006, 06:28:12 AM »

"I know everyone wants to go all conspiracy theory on Bethesda chargin for content that they couldhave put in and all that. However, it isn't like the game doesn't already have more content than most will actually see in the game."

Exactly.  Bethesda could easily have cut a lot of stuff out of Oblivion without negatively impacting sales, but they didn't.  With most games getting shorter, Bethesda delivered a whole lot more than they had to in order to warrant the $50-$60 price tag.  If their profit margin is higher on the mods than on the game, then fine.  Given that most publishers want to charge $50-$60 for 10-15 hours of gameplay, even if you bought lots of mods for $2, it would still end up a better bargain than most games.

I also don't get the hate directed at Bethesda.  Publishers release 10-hour games all the time, and no one goes crazy about how they're ripping people off.  Also, although MS/Rare did release the co-op Kameo pack for free, they're also charging 200 points (50 points more than the 2 upcoming Oblivion mods) for each of two sets of 10 costumes(!) and I don't see anyone going apeshit over that.  Bethesda releases a 100+ hour game, and then react to criticism by lowering the mod price while increasing content, and people still complain?  Makes me glad I'm not a game developer.
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