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Author Topic: Oblivion isn't coming until Q2 2006  (Read 3613 times)
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Hetz
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« on: October 29, 2005, 01:09:48 AM »

Ok, the naysayers have pretty much converted me. The signs are all there. The lack of important info, the complete silence from the developers regarding release date or pretty much anything else.

Now the new video on their website has cut out the "Coming PC/Xbox 360 this Christmas" line that Todd says at the end in the version that was leaked a couple weeks ago. Why in the world was that cut out if the plan is still to have the game out this year?

My hopes are not high right now for a release this year.... frown

Bah!

[edited title to reflect  new info]
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2005, 01:51:09 AM »

I'm still hoping for 12/5.
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Hetz
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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2005, 01:55:42 AM »

Quote from: "Greggy_D"
I'm still hoping for 12/5.


I'm hoping, but I've pretty much accepted that it won't be out till Feb/March of next year. Heck, it hasn't even been rated yet....and nearly every other (in fact I think EVERY) launch game for the Xbox 360 has been.

The long release date slide has begun, I fear....

 frown
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farley2k
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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2005, 02:23:00 AM »

I think I will be winning a poll!  smile

Seriously though - good for them if they do delay.  I imagine MS is putting a lot of pressure on them and it would take a lot of guts so resist that.

And maybe it will just be the PC version, which is fine and make sense.  Personally I think it is dumb to say they will be out at the same time.  The 360 is known hardware and software in a known configuration.  There are thousands of PC configs, hardware and at least 3 OSes they would support.  That is a ton more work.

They should have said a long time ago that they were only going to have the 360 version out this year.  It would put less pressure on them, create less speculation with fans and in the end make both products better.
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Hetz
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« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2005, 02:31:12 AM »

Quote from: "farley2k"
I think I will be winning a poll!  smile


Hey now.....2005 isn't done yet!   It still could be out this year! Right! Right?   *sigh*

Tongue


Quote
They should have said a long time ago that they were only going to have the 360 version out this year.  It would put less pressure on them, create less speculation with fans and in the end make both products better.


They should have been a lot more forthcoming then they have been, about a great many # of things. Ah well.
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Hetz
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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2005, 12:52:06 PM »

and so it begins....

2kGames has officially announced that Oblivion has been delayed until 2006 in Europe.

http://www.playerone.be/news_details.php?id_news=3617
http://www.xboxmatch.com/news/index.php?news_num=2661

I think it is pretty obvious that it isn't coming out this year in the USA as well....

No Rating Yet, even though all other launch games have them.
+
No Release Date Yet, even though all other launch games have one.
+
No system requirements yet
+
They took the phrase "Coming PC/Xbox 360 this Christmas" out of the E3 Demo video that was just released, even though it was in the version given to gamestores just a couple weeks ago.
+
No Communication from the devs on any of the above

It all adds up to DELAY....
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mikeg
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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2005, 02:08:40 PM »

Fine with me cuz I most definitely will not be getting a 360 til end of first quarter.  Nothing I want is out for it this year, plus I played Kameo on one in Columbus last week and saw Call of Duty 2 on one as well and while they look about like what a mid range pc can do now, I was not blown away enough to spend the money day one.    Especially with no real must-have games.  The ONLY game that has me considering even getting a 360 at all is Gears of War and that is not out til March as well.  Oblivion looks very good and if it comes out about when GoW comes out that might be reason to pick one up then.
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Cleric7
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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2005, 04:02:30 PM »

With this news I am seriously considering cancelling all my preorders for the 360. I have the unit and three games all prepaid, about $800 Canadian, and there is just nothing left at launch that interests me. Oblivion likely won't be out for several months, Perfect Dark Zero is getting such poor word of mouth in previews that I cancelled my preorder for that last week (Put the money towards "Guitar Hero", Yay!!)

All that's left is Kameo, which looks good but not earth-shattering, and Project Gotham Racing 3, which really does look amazing, but I'm not sure it's worth purchasing the system Day One for...

Count me a very disappointed gamer. Microsoft has really dropped the ball, as far as I'm concerned.
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« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2005, 04:31:19 PM »

I blame Rich LaPorte.  Just kidding!!!!


Anyway...



before you release it.
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Calvin
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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2005, 06:23:18 PM »

I am not too concerned. I want to play a game of that magnitude and scope finished, not half baked and pushed out the door.

And Hetz, goddamn I am going to be happy to say I told you so in a few weeks. This is what happens when you get so instant about intangibles like release dates that you do not really know the truth about.
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Doopri
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« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2005, 10:31:06 PM »

yea if this is true it both sucks and is a good thing.  i dont want to play the game in terrible / buggy / unfinished condition (though I am pretty tolerant hell aside from the automap i LOVED daggerfall smile).  but it sucks because like many of the rest of you, this was the game that made 360 day one.  yes i love doa and yes i wanted kameo very badly but like i think cleric said? while they both seem impressive those two games really dont entice me enough to snag a system that wont have any games i want for another what, 6 months to a year?
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Hetz
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2005, 04:10:27 AM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
I am not too concerned. I want to play a game of that magnitude and scope finished, not half baked and pushed out the door.

And Hetz, goddamn I am going to be happy to say I told you so in a few weeks. This is what happens when you get so instant about intangibles like release dates that you do not really know the truth about.


So you are going to be happy that they couldn't deliver on the date they swore up and down it would be done by? (Holiday 2005) Over the summer, they were talking some pretty big smack about the PC Gamer article that said it wasn't going to come out until 2006.

Who's going to get the last laugh now? It certainly won't be Bethesda, if they do delay it. In fact, it's going to cost them quite a bit, so I don't think that is really anything to be happy about. It's too bad that is "half-baked" right now.

Anyway, if it comes out next year, there will be lots more competition. Now they are pretty much the only game in town, but next year....well, I just hope it isn't delayed too long....
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Calvin
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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2005, 04:34:07 AM »

Quote from: "Hetz"
Quote from: "Calvin"
I am not too concerned. I want to play a game of that magnitude and scope finished, not half baked and pushed out the door.

And Hetz, goddamn I am going to be happy to say I told you so in a few weeks. This is what happens when you get so instant about intangibles like release dates that you do not really know the truth about.


So you are going to be happy that they couldn't deliver on the date they swore up and down it would be done by? (Holiday 2005) Over the summer, they were talking some pretty big smack about the PC Gamer article that said it wasn't going to come out until 2006.

Who's going to get the last laugh now? It certainly won't be Bethesda, if they do delay it. In fact, it's going to cost them quite a bit, so I don't think that is really anything to be happy about. It's too bad that is "half-baked" right now.

Anyway, if it comes out next year, there will be lots more competition. Now they are pretty much the only game in town, but next year....well, I just hope it isn't delayed too long....


Explain how it will cost them money.
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Doopri
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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2005, 05:31:32 AM »

Calvin:  Final Fantasy XI

and Hetz basically said it in the lines you quoted - next year = much more competition.  Release day or near to it and youre the only game in town.  6 months later and you go up against what Xbox RPGers have been slathering for for what 4 or 5 years now, an MMORPG.  Not to mention the many many other games that will be released RPG or otherwise.  Im an elder scrolls and rpg fan in general so i tend to snag all the major releases.  I am far from the average consumer however.  it will cost them money - if in fact it is delayed, ask kathode - do you think microsoft was hounding them to finish it because the pretty blue fairies said so or because cold hard cash was involved?  of course as a fan of elder scrolls, im stoked that theyd finish the game properly and release it when its done, but that is costing them the zero competition if they were to release early.  course you can also go with well in six monthes to a year there will be more xbox360s around and a larger market to sell to, but again you could have had a free time before that.  plus salaries, ot, playtesters that kinda junk that involves expenditures above and beyond what would have been paid out had the game been out the door (hell even electricity smile) not to mention the lost future value of revenues that now wont come in etc etc etc.  all the good stuff on the business side of making games.
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Hetz
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« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2005, 12:36:38 PM »

Yep, and those billboards aren't paying for themselves.

Face it, Calvin. This is nothing but a bad financial move for them. Yes, it is better for the game, if it really is "half-baked" right now like you say it is....but in terms of the bottom line, it would be horrible. I don't see how you can spin it any other way. I know you are real life friends with kathode, but come on man.

All their advertising was aimed at this game coming out in November of this year. A little delay until December won't hurt much (other than lost day after Thanksgiving sales, which is nothing to sneeze at) but a delay into next year is going to cost them big. They get no money for this while it is "being polished".

Being delayed means, more ads, more salaries, less holiday sales, less "launch of a new console" sales which equals a lot less money all around.
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JCC
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2005, 02:14:23 PM »

I think this situation (if, in fact, Oblivion does get delayed into 2006) is a lot like the situation Nintendo faced in delaying Zelda. Yes, of course, not releaing a game in the X-mas season (and in Oblivion's case, near the launch date) is surely going to cost them some sales and money. But, as has been noted, as gamers, we will end up with a better finished product. I wouldn't really be worried about their lost money though. In both cases, the games will still sell well. It's not like either franchise is in danger of ending with this iteration just because they don't get released in the ideal release window.

And now we wait... grrrr...
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Hetz
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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2005, 05:05:35 PM »

Quote from: "JCC"
I think this situation (if, in fact, Oblivion does get delayed into 2006) is a lot like the situation Nintendo faced in delaying Zelda. Yes, of course, not releaing a game in the X-mas season (and in Oblivion's case, near the launch date) is surely going to cost them some sales and money. But, as has been noted, as gamers, we will end up with a better finished product. I wouldn't really be worried about their lost money though. In both cases, the games will still sell well. It's not like either franchise is in danger of ending with this iteration just because they don't get released in the ideal release window.

And now we wait... grrrr...


Oh I agree. I know Oblivion will still sell well, but Zelda you need to remember hasn't had ANY ads for it yet. There has been virtually no marketing for it at all yet, whereas Oblivion has had ads running for MONTHS already. They now also have billboards and taxicab/bus ads for the game in New York City and Los Angeles. That isn't cheap.

Any delay is going to hurt them much more than Zelda being delayed hurt Nintendo. For one, Zelda is a much bigger name than the Elder Scrolls, so it will sell like hotcakes no matter when it comes out, and two, Oblivion has already had lots of money sunk into the advertising of the game, based on it coming out in November/December.
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JCC
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« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2005, 05:44:37 PM »

Quote from: "Hetz"


Oh I agree. I know Oblivion will still sell well, but Zelda you need to remember hasn't had ANY ads for it yet.


Wait, Nintendo markets their games?  Tongue

Quote

There has been virtually no marketing for it at all yet, whereas Oblivion has had ads running for MONTHS already. They now also have billboards and taxicab/bus ads for the game in New York City and Los Angeles. That isn't cheap.

Any delay is going to hurt them much more than Zelda being delayed hurt Nintendo. For one, Zelda is a much bigger name than the Elder Scrolls, so it will sell like hotcakes no matter when it comes out, and two, Oblivion has already had lots of money sunk into the advertising of the game, based on it coming out in November/December.


All very good points. I am sure Bethesda WILL get hurt to some degree financially, if in fact, they delay Oblivion to 2006. And of course, there will be some illwill among the hardcore gaming dorks like us who will feel betrayed/angered/saddened by being acutely aware of all the emphatic claims that it would be out this Nov/Dec. Still, Bethesda isn't a small developer/publisher and while TES may not be the same brand as Zelda, it is still probably their top dog, and I think it will still do very very well for both console and PC whether in 2005 or 2006. I really think they will be fine and getting it out now would merely be a "better" scenario for them. Getting out late will be "worse" but not a disaster IMO.

Hey, hopefully, the game is still on track. We still haven't offically heard it's delayed have we? Keep your fingers crossed. smile
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mytocles
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« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2005, 03:21:35 AM »

crybaby

I can't speak...
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Mytocles (MY-toe-cleez)

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« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2005, 02:07:36 AM »

And Hetz called it:

http://pc.ign.com/articles/663/663060p1.html

Let's hope they use the extra time to get it right.  I'm hoping the living world AI system thingy works out.  With all the item receptacle...I mean NPCs standing around and never moving in the first game, the world of Morrowind felt dead, like a giant, interactive spreadsheet.  A beautiful, handcrafted, system hogging spreadsheet, but a spreadsheet no less.

Edited for clarity
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Hetz
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« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2005, 02:37:22 AM »

Wow, I can't believe that Pete was a bold faced liar at X05! The "final stages of polishing" eh? I didn't know that took up to 8 months!

Nice, Bethesda.
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Calvin
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« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2005, 04:01:58 AM »

Quote from: "Hetz"
Wow, I can't believe that Pete was a bold faced liar at X05! The "final stages of polishing" eh? I didn't know that took up to 8 months!

Nice, Bethesda.


Well, he wasn't lying. They were polishing, they still are polishing. I honestly believe that you a. do not understand the magnitude of developing and then bug-quashing a game of this size, and b. do not understand the massive difficulty in final coding/optimization/etc for the 360 when they only recieved final kits over the last several months. I know you are dissapointed, but try to have some perspective.
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Hetz
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« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2005, 04:10:15 AM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
Quote from: "Hetz"
Wow, I can't believe that Pete was a bold faced liar at X05! The "final stages of polishing" eh? I didn't know that took up to 8 months!

Nice, Bethesda.


Well, he wasn't lying. They were polishing, they still are polishing. I honestly believe that you a. do not understand the magnitude of developing and then bug-quashing a game of this size, and b. do not understand the massive difficulty in final coding/optimization/etc for the 360 when they only recieved final kits over the last several months. I know you are dissapointed, but try to have some perspective.


I do understand they were talking a LOT of smack this summer about making the holday 2005 date, when PC Gamer said they didn't think it would be done until 2006. I'll have to dig up those dev quotes, those will be a good laugh now!  biggrin

Also, they are not "polishing" they are fixing a broken game. This is not the "final stages of polishing" like Pete was BS'ing about at X05.

I agree it will take them awhile to get the 360 version done, but that is why YOU DON'T HAVE BOTH VERSIONS FORCED TO COME OUT AT THE SAME TIME!

But I guess M$'s money hat is too big a temptation at this point.

Oh and if you think I am upset/dissapointed, check the official forums...it's not pretty right now.
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Hetz
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« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2005, 01:50:24 PM »



 :lol:
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Cleric7
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« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2005, 03:08:37 PM »

I think the main reason for Bethesda's silence -- up until today -- has to do with Take Two's "interesting" financial practices. Their quarter ended yesterday, and as Bill Harris talks about in his blog (part way down the page), they kept the Oblivion date-slide underwraps so they could fool their stockholders.

I imagine Bethesda had their hands quite firmly tied about getting out any accurate information on the state of the game.
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« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2005, 03:11:35 PM »

Quote from: "Cleric7"
I think the main reason for Bethesda's silence -- up until today -- has to do with Take Two's "interesting" financial practices. Their quarter ended yesterday, and as Bill Harris talks about in his blog (part way down the page), they kept the Oblivion date-slide underwraps so they could fool their stockholders.

I imagine Bethesda had their hands quite firmly tied about getting out any accurate information on the state of the game.



I think that is correct which would make their comments lies - i.e. intentional deception.  They knew the game wouldn't be out but they said it would.  Now it may have been becuase Take Two made them but that doesn't change the fact that they knew the truth.
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Hetz
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« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2005, 03:31:16 PM »

Quote from: "farley2k"
Quote from: "Cleric7"
I think the main reason for Bethesda's silence -- up until today -- has to do with Take Two's "interesting" financial practices. Their quarter ended yesterday, and as Bill Harris talks about in his blog (part way down the page), they kept the Oblivion date-slide underwraps so they could fool their stockholders.

I imagine Bethesda had their hands quite firmly tied about getting out any accurate information on the state of the game.



I think that is correct which would make their comments lies - i.e. intentional deception.  They knew the game wouldn't be out but they said it would.  Now it may have been becuase Take Two made them but that doesn't change the fact that they knew the truth.


Yep, it looks like Pete was intentionally lieing about the games state of completion at X05.

The game is NOWHERE CLOSE to being done (at least on the 360), as anyone could see at X05 from the state of the game. No shadows at all and the one person that got out of the first dungeon reported that the game had a TON of fog and the LOD stuff wasn't in the game at all.

Since you are kathodes official spokesman/apologist here, Calvin. What do you have to say about that?
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« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2005, 03:37:33 PM »

Christ, Hetz, go play something that has been released.
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Hetz
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« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2005, 03:55:29 PM »

Quote from: "rrmorton"
Christ, Hetz, go play something that has been released.


No, while I'm at work today, I'd prefer to bitch about an unrelesaed game....thank you very much.
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« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2005, 04:02:00 PM »

Ok rrmorton -- what the hell is your avatar from?
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« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2005, 05:11:05 PM »

Quote
Ok rrmorton -- what the hell is your avatar from?

That's not an avatar, that really is rrmorton! :lol:

Hetz, that is one hysterical picture!  

Everyone,  we're talking about games here, those of us who are drooling for Oblivion are hugely disappointed, angry, or suffering wishing/ waiting angst.  What I can't figure is why folks feel the need to yell at each other about it.   Let's "mature up" a little, here!  Tongue

I'm going through the grieving stages I think - if there's one that's called "resigned" then I've finally gotten there... I will love my 360 I'm sure, have pre-ordered Kameo and Quake IV so I'll have something to play, but it's just not the same.  I'm actually sad about it.

But life is like that:  if shit didn't happen - there wouldn't be a bumper sticker that said it did!  :lol:
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« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2005, 05:36:07 PM »

Although I am disappointed, I am not inclined to be overly hard on Bethesda.

I suspect they really did believe for the longest time that the game would come out before Christmas. At some point, when it was clear they weren't going to make that date, word came down from on high (Take Two) that the official party line was not to be changed until the end of the fiscal quarter (yesterday). I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that employees' jobs were on the line if they did not spout the party line ("It will be out by Christmas") What an awful position to be in!

I would hazard a guess that some of Bethesda's own employees may not have been let in on the true nature of the situation.
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« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2005, 05:52:40 PM »

I bet we'll hear about their source code getting stolen in the next week.

 Tongue
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« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2005, 06:29:21 PM »

Quote from: "Hetz"
Oh I agree. I know Oblivion will still sell well, but Zelda you need to remember hasn't had ANY ads for it yet. There has been virtually no marketing for it at all yet, whereas Oblivion has had ads running for MONTHS already. They now also have billboards and taxicab/bus ads for the game in New York City and Los Angeles. That isn't cheap.

Any delay is going to hurt them much more than Zelda being delayed hurt Nintendo. For one, Zelda is a much bigger name than the Elder Scrolls, so it will sell like hotcakes no matter when it comes out, and two, Oblivion has already had lots of money sunk into the advertising of the game, based on it coming out in November/December.


Our financial situation is FAR from dire, so you let us worry about that ok?  Marketing has its own budget and they can spend it how they want.  The game will still be silly successful and the naysayers are welcome to disagree.  We're still making a killer game that will be even more successful than Morrowind, which was a similar situation.
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« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2005, 06:50:30 PM »

Billboards, in terms of advertising dollars and the total rating they get, aren't very effective when marketing products.  I really do think these Oblivion billboards were put up just for kicks.  Although many companies employ billboard advertising for products, it's more so just getting the product name out there and recognized.  Just for name recognition.  In the long run, it won't hurt them "financially" whatsoever.

Transportation advertising such as "Queen" boards on buses and otherwise is relatively cheap advertising.  They probably aren't taking much of a hit at ALL by "wrongly" advertising right now.  At least they're building up name recognition.  Plus, if the consumer is anything like Hetz, they will recall this brand advertising, look up the game and info on it, and have an obsession over it and pitch and moan how it's being delayed.

Advertising media plans can be remade very easily you know.  Once you buy media time, you can usually opt out if you agree to purchasing media from the same outlet at a different time.  All they have to do is take the time to schedule their media campaign at a different time and compute some other rates.

So in terms of advertising dollars spent, it's really a non-issue here.

And just wait for the game to be released.  I mean sure they might have lied, but do you want a super-buggy not fully optimized Oblivion for the holiday season?

Simmer down now!  And wait.  And play the whole slew of other great games.  Not a big deal.
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Hetz
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« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2005, 06:56:14 PM »

Quote from: "kathode"
Quote from: "Hetz"
Oh I agree. I know Oblivion will still sell well, but Zelda you need to remember hasn't had ANY ads for it yet. There has been virtually no marketing for it at all yet, whereas Oblivion has had ads running for MONTHS already. They now also have billboards and taxicab/bus ads for the game in New York City and Los Angeles. That isn't cheap.

Any delay is going to hurt them much more than Zelda being delayed hurt Nintendo. For one, Zelda is a much bigger name than the Elder Scrolls, so it will sell like hotcakes no matter when it comes out, and two, Oblivion has already had lots of money sunk into the advertising of the game, based on it coming out in November/December.


Our financial situation is FAR from dire, so you let us worry about that ok?  Marketing has its own budget and they can spend it how they want.  The game will still be silly successful and the naysayers are welcome to disagree.  We're still making a killer game that will be even more successful than Morrowind, which was a similar situation.


So, are you going to update the GOLDEN FAQ OF SUPREME INSIGHT over on the official site now or what?

If you hadn't noticed, there are people over there screaming for your heads right now....
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kathode
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« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2005, 07:56:36 PM »

Quote from: "Hetz"
So, are you going to update the GOLDEN FAQ OF SUPREME INSIGHT over on the official site now or what?

Would that make you happy? smile

Quote
If you hadn't noticed, there are people over there screaming for your heads right now....

Oh I think I've noticed.  If there weren't, I would be concerned that people aren't excited about the game.
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« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2005, 08:26:58 PM »

Quote
Our financial situation is FAR from dire, so you let us worry about that ok? Marketing has its own budget and they can spend it how they want. The game will still be silly successful and the naysayers are welcome to disagree. We're still making a killer game that will be even more successful than Morrowind, which was a similar situation.
Poor Kathode... who probably would just love to be a forum "member" and not at all Resposible for Anything or Anygame related to Bethesda.  I'm just happy to pick up any crumbs about Oblivion or anything to do with it (really, I love irony and sarcasm, but I'm not using it here!)

Maybe it's more fun to be a "nobody" sometimes (gaming-wise, lol!) ....

I'll also go on the record for saying - yes, I want the game to be as great as it can be, and I will wait for it.  I'll be disappointed, but I remember playing Morrowind and suffering through the load times and freeze.  I don't want Oblivion to be like that!  I'll trust everyone to make a stupendous game, I will, no doubt,  piss and moan about the delay - but I will thoroughly enjoy the non-buggy richness of what I'm sure will be an unbelievably great game!

 Tongue  Tongue  Tongue  Tongue  Tongue
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Mytocles (MY-toe-cleez)

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« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2005, 12:28:10 AM »

ditto.

Pissin' an' Moanin' is a gamers M.O.

I'd appreciate it if Big Bethy gets this one right. I don't care if it takes time.

As to Kathode, I'm glad you're a member of our Trendy Gaming Community. I do not hold you personally responsible for the release of any games or even their quality. If you put up graffiti in ES:Oblivion that says something to the effect of "IN! -Devil" I would definately laugh my jolly fat ass off though. biggrin
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« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2005, 12:58:39 AM »

Better right than first.  Take all the time you need.
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