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Author Topic: Oblivion - Graphics downgrade  (Read 4737 times)
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Hetz
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« on: January 29, 2006, 03:33:31 PM »

E3:
http://www.supload.com/free/obliv2.jpg/view/

Now:
http://www.supload.com/free/obliv1.jpg/view/

E3:
http://www.supload.com/free/obliv4.jpg/view/

Now:
http://www.supload.com/free/obliv3.jpg/view/

kathode has said all they did was remove shadows from everything but people....but this seems like a pretty big downgrade to me. The lighting and textures look way scaled back.

The official forums are up in arms about this and there are multiple threads about this on Evil Avatar, IGN, Gamespot, Team Xbox, RPG Codex and Gaming-Age.

What do you all think? I'm kind of upset that it doesn't look as good as it once did. Not much we can do about it now though. I guess we see now what they did to get the framerate up during this delay....
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Sam Hell
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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2006, 03:53:11 PM »

I'm a graphics whore. But I can't help but actually feel a bit relieved that they seem  have downgraded the visuals somewhat in Oblivion. I had toyed with the thought of cancelling my pre-order due to the fact I am unsure my rig can handle it.
I now have a little more confidence that I should be ok.

BTW, I have an xp2800+, 1 gig 2700 and a Geforce 6600 gt.

OTOH, they maybe should leave it as a slider or user option to max out the crap to really make it shine.  

Fuck, I dunno.
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Daehawk
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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2006, 03:54:29 PM »

Looks like ass now.
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Eightball
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« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2006, 04:26:42 PM »

I just think it's texture compression.  You're making a mountain out of a molehill.  As usual, with Oblivion.
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« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2006, 04:28:24 PM »

Quote from: "Daehawk"
Looks like ass now.


Yeah, it SURE brings me back to the CGA days.  Wow, it's horrible.

(sarcasm btw).

I'm not joining the Hetz crazy wagon.  You can't judge for shit based upon screencaps from an amateur video compared to stills doctored from the company.
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« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2006, 04:33:08 PM »

And you know what? I don't care. Will I still be buying this game on day 1? You better believe it.
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« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2006, 04:43:11 PM »

I'm sure there will be a mod (on the PC at least) available shortly after release that re-enables what was removed.
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Daehawk
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« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2006, 04:57:51 PM »

There were some great graphics mods for MW. I had a couple and was always amazed at how asome stuff looked. Id break in a house and end up taking screenshots of the rooms cause they were so cool looking.
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kathode
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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2006, 05:14:52 PM »

You're still trying to compare crappy compressed video to hot and fresh frame buffer dumps.

It's like saying "compare these cookies fresh from the oven to these that I've frozen and rethawed three times."
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2006, 05:46:27 PM »

Kathode beat me to it.  What I saw at E3 was fantastic.  I'll let you know when I get the game how much of a difference I see.  Its just so hard to judge this generation with vids and screenshots....
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2006, 05:49:22 PM »

If it has half as much stuff in it as Morrowind had, they could make it with the Build engine and I'd still want it.
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« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2006, 06:03:58 PM »

Hetz, just think what Desslock said in his hands-on-preview.  He called the graphics gorgeous.  Stop freaking out about every last piece of new info you come across.
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« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2006, 06:16:34 PM »

wow, even an explanation from one of the developers isn't good enough.  And his explanation makes sense, it's compressed video.  That happens all the time.  Look at the Call of Duty 2 intro movie, it looks nothing like the game.

This is why devs don't like talking to media/gamers, it's a lose lose situation.
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2006, 06:25:29 PM »

Ehh, some media.  Some gamers.   They usually hang around where people are at least semi rational. slywink
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Daehawk
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2006, 06:34:25 PM »

What happened to your avatar Ron?
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2006, 06:44:37 PM »

We have an issue with uploading avatars.  It broke my image during testing.  Still working on it obviously. smile
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2006, 06:48:23 PM »

Quote from: "Daehawk"
Looks like ass now.


Give me a break. Thats just not true, even with the bad screenshot.
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2006, 06:49:35 PM »

Quote from: "Sam Hell"
I had toyed with the thought of cancelling my pre-order due to the fact I am unsure my rig can handle it.
I now have a little more confidence that I should be ok.

With those graphics, I'm pretty sure I can run it on my cell phone.
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2006, 06:53:23 PM »

Hehe, it looks like the Emperor gained a little weight from the before to after pics.  :lol:
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Hetz
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« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2006, 07:05:41 PM »

Quote from: "Eightball"
Quote from: "Daehawk"
Looks like ass now.


Yeah, it SURE brings me back to the CGA days.  Wow, it's horrible.

(sarcasm btw).

I'm not joining the Hetz crazy wagon.  You can't judge for shit based upon screencaps from an amateur video compared to stills doctored from the company.


The E3 pics that I linked to were not stills from the company. They were amateur screencaps from the E3 video, which was compressed as well....not frame buffer grabs. Just cause kathode says it, it doesn't make it so.

Next!  Tongue  

I am sure it is going to be a great game and graphics are not everything....but you can't seriously tell me kathode that when we get home with the game come March that opening prison scene will look close to the way it did on the E3 video. I think it will look pretty much the same as the "compressed amatuer screencap".

I guess we will see who is right soon....
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kathode
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« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2006, 07:25:05 PM »

Quote from: "Hetz"
I am sure it is going to be a great game and graphics are not everything....but you can't seriously tell me kathode that when we get home with the game come March that opening prison scene will look close to the way it did on the E3 video. I think it will look pretty much the same as the "compressed amatuer screencap".


It will look exactly how it looks in the screenshot that has been on our website forever.  There's not a single screenshot on the website that uses a shadow system of any kind.
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Hetz
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« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2006, 07:44:00 PM »

Quote from: "kathode"
Quote from: "Hetz"
I am sure it is going to be a great game and graphics are not everything....but you can't seriously tell me kathode that when we get home with the game come March that opening prison scene will look close to the way it did on the E3 video. I think it will look pretty much the same as the "compressed amatuer screencap".


It will look exactly how it looks in the screenshot that has been on our website forever.  There's not a single screenshot on the website that uses a shadow system of any kind.


Well then whoever was playing the game in that German video must have had some settings turned down or the brightness way up or something cause the textures and even the lighting in that scene on the German video is totaly different than the same scene in the E3 demo video. Which is really odd. Both are compressed videos, not direct frame bufer grabs.
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Daehawk
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« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2006, 07:56:10 PM »

It looks to me as if BLOOM has been turned completely off.
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« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2006, 08:03:00 PM »

Quote from: "Daehawk"
It looks to me as if BLOOM has been turned completely off.

Exactly.. it looks like the bloom/hdr/psuedo-hdr stuff isn't on the new shots; but it is on the old shots.
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« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2006, 09:03:21 PM »

Look at the guys head its not even the same size/shape, something very wonky is going on with the "second" screen shots compared to the original.  It is more than just shadows being removed, I do not know that I would put a lot of faith in them.
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Hetz
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« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2006, 09:05:08 PM »

kathode mentioned something a little while ago about changing the shape of the guys head or his facial texturing to make him not so droopy and more like the CG version of him in the trailer.
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Hetz
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« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2006, 09:25:15 PM »

Heh, there are now 12 locked threads in the last hour over on the official forums with people screaming at them about this shadow thing.

Here is a sample post:

Quote
I am about to spend, 2500 dollars on a computer, just so I could play Oblivion totally maxed out... now I hear they are cutting out the dynamic object shadows, and that BUILDINGS will not have shadows as well. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH BETHSEDA. I AM SO MAD AT THEM RIGHT NOW, I DONT THINK I CAN EVEN EXPRESS IT IN WORDS. WHY NOT AT LEAST LEAVE IT IN AS AN OPTION. WHAT THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO SNEAK IN DURING DAYTIME IF BUILDINGS DONT EVEN HAVE SHADOWS, I DO NOT WANT THE SHADOWS TO LOOK LIKE THEY DID IN MORROWIND. FUCK, WHAT TYPE OF NEXT GEN GAME IS THIS, IF THE OBJECTS AND BUILDINGS HAVE NO SHADOWS, EVERY SINGLE GAME, DOOM3, FAR CRY, HALF LIFE 2, FEAR, ALL HAD SHADOWS FOR OBJECTS, BUILDINGS, EVERYTHING. I AM JUST SO FUCKING MAD AT BETHSEDA RIGHT NOW... MY GOD...


And people think I am obsessed with Elder Scrolls?? OMG.
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« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2006, 09:37:58 PM »

Those people, with no expection, are fucking insane lunatics. Deranged. THey have no perspective and no clue.
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« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2006, 09:39:43 PM »

The problem with the german video, other than compression factor, is that we have no idea what they used to create that video.  What computer did they run it on?  What in-game settings did they have to turn down to get it to run at reasonable frame rates?

Official screenshots are always designed to show the game in the best possible light.  I suspect that Xb360 owners and very top end PC's will give you the full effects, but don't expect all the bells and whistles on even on a machine that handles other games very well.  It could very well require a 3.5Ghz processor or even more to get the full effects.  Don't forget, for all the tendancy of people to dismiss the XB360, it is a triple core processor and Bethesda has confirmed using that power.

Personally, I trust Kathode to not lie about this issue.
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« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2006, 10:49:24 PM »

Quote from: "Hetz"
*sample post removed as it made my eyes bleed*

And people think I am obsessed with Elder Scrolls?? OMG.

Good lord. That's just nuts. It's also why you should never visit official video game forums (or Gamefaqs ones), as people there are just obsessed. And that's putting it nicely.

And to comment upon Sarkus' thoughts - programs like Fraps take a lot of computational power to run (and record) properly. So in my mind, odds are very good that the movie was made with far reduced video levels than what the game can do.

However, kathode, if I may suggest something - go get a video created of the PC version in motion and post it on the site. It'll shut the hell up of all the doubters and restore 'order'. smile
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Daehawk
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« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2006, 11:48:06 PM »

One site suggests that they had to remove soft shadows from the 360 version.
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« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2006, 12:04:19 AM »

Quote from: "Destructor"
Quote from: "Hetz"
*sample post removed as it made my eyes bleed*

And people think I am obsessed with Elder Scrolls?? OMG.

Good lord. That's just nuts. It's also why you should never visit official video game forums (or Gamefaqs ones), as people there are just obsessed. And that's putting it nicely.

And to comment upon Sarkus' thoughts - programs like Fraps take a lot of computational power to run (and record) properly. So in my mind, odds are very good that the movie was made with far reduced video levels than what the game can do.

However, kathode, if I may suggest something - go get a video created of the PC version in motion and post it on the site. It'll shut the hell up of all the doubters and restore 'order'. smile


Don't listen to Tim - just finish the game.  smile  We'll all see the fruits of your labor soon enough and then all this nonsense can be laid to rest. (or rekindled if any of it is true...)
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« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2006, 01:37:14 AM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
Don't listen to Tim - just finish the game.  smile  We'll all see the fruits of your labor soon enough and then all this nonsense can be laid to rest. (or rekindled if any of it is true...)

Well, I guess you could just complete the game and we'd all find out then, but... Then we wouldn't get to see more video/screenshots of this awesome game in action! biggrin
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« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2006, 02:29:47 AM »

Screw finishing the game!!!! I want more screenshots NOW!!!!  6 more months of videos and screenshots should get me pumped enough to make it a day 1 purchase.  Actually, better make that 12.  I hope no one minds.  :twisted:
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« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2006, 08:13:08 AM »

360 was choking I guess.

I could give a crap, in fact I am glad they did it if its gonna make MY game run better.  I already worry Oblivion will be slow slow slow, based on Morrowind when it was released.

olaf
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« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2006, 04:35:21 PM »

Quote from: "Daehawk"
One site suggests that they had to remove soft shadows from the 360 version.

Nah.
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« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2006, 04:38:14 PM »

Quote from: "kathode"
Quote from: "Daehawk"
One site suggests that they had to remove soft shadows from the 360 version.

Nah.


Sir, I disagree! I READ IT ON THE INTARNETS!!! RPGCODEX FTW!@!11
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« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2006, 06:10:04 PM »

I'm saving this thread for future use, ie... when the game comes out, and true to his word, the graphics haven't been downgraded.
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« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2006, 06:59:59 PM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
Quote from: "kathode"
Quote from: "Daehawk"
One site suggests that they had to remove soft shadows from the 360 version.

Nah.


Sir, I disagree! I READ IT ON THE INTARNETS!!! RPGCODEX FTW!@!11


Nice :lol:

I did like this line...

Quote

I guess we will see who is right soon....


Kathode, you really should start placing bets with Hetz on what will or won't be in the game. You could make a nice bit of money on the side slywink.
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« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2006, 01:06:47 AM »

Quote from: "godhugh"
Kathode, you really should start placing bets with Hetz on what will or won't be in the game. You could make a nice bit of money on the side slywink.


That was funny, by my standards
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