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Author Topic: Nintendo Revolution - touchpad controllers?  (Read 2417 times)
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Ralph-Wiggum
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« on: April 21, 2005, 12:53:03 PM »

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but the new issue of Game Informer says that their sources (game developers already working on games) tell them that the "revolution" part of Nintendo's new console will be the touchpad game controllers. There will be no analog stick or buttons; rather, each game will map out its own button layout on the controller. The same developers said that Nintendo has told them that no game will be approved for their system unless it uses the unique features of a touchpad (which would seem to hinder ports from other systems).

Has anyone heard this from other sources? Is Game Informer usually reliable about these things (this was the first issue I've read)? I suppose it sort of makes sense considering the DS and all. Personally, if the report is accurate, I'm not sure how mainstream Nintendo's next console can become; no tactile feedback on games (even just in using an analog stick) would seem to be a greatly missed feature.
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Arkon
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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2005, 12:57:13 PM »

I will never buy a game system that uses a touchpad controller... I absolutely abhor touchpads.  This is not a smart move for nintendo in my opinion if it is true.
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2005, 01:10:27 PM »

If I wanted to fight with a frustrating touchpad I'd take the mouse off my laptop.
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HankRaptor
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« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2005, 03:14:06 PM »

Im not ready to judge nintendo on their controller.

They have introduced the most inovations as it pertains to a controller than any other company for god sake they invented the joypad...


The wavebird is Incredible and the SNES pad was awesome for Street Fighter... lets not jump to conclusions yet.
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2005, 03:20:53 PM »

I thought the Cube controller was horrible...I think this generation of Nintendo Engineers are on da crack!
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Ron Burke
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Devil
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« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2005, 03:35:22 PM »

Two words: Gimmick

They are reaching again...
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markus
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« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2005, 03:40:58 PM »

It does sound VERY gimmicky to me.  If you're doing something with your system that casuses third party support to dwindle, then how can you think that makes sense?

I have tons of respect for what nintendo has done in the past but their recent decisions have been sketchy at best IMO.

Well, at least if they tank as a console maker they could become a third party publisher.  I want Mario and Zelda on XBox next!
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« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2005, 03:43:02 PM »

Unless it provides some tactile response, it'll flop.  Touchscreens generally require you to *look* at it... having to switch focus from the controller to the TV constantly would become very tiresome very quickly.  If this is true, they're heading for a Virtual Boy-level disaster.
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mytocles
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« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2005, 04:47:19 PM »

Quote
If I wanted to fight with a frustrating touchpad I'd take the mouse off my laptop.

Thanks, I thought I was the only one...

maybe I'm missing something, but how can each game "map out it's own button layout on the controller" - will buttons of some sort be displayed or marked on the touchpad?  Will there be a VMU-style screen on the controller that corresponds with the touchpad? Maybe it will be a lap desk style clipboard with a plastic pen... :roll:  Gimmicky? nah!

if it's true, I'll wait and see before I judge it any further... but no dual analog sticks... owie!:shock:
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Cleric7
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« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2005, 04:59:18 PM »

death knell
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Ralph-Wiggum
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« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2005, 05:05:05 PM »

Quote from: "mytocles"


maybe I'm missing something, but how can each game "map out it's own button layout on the controller" - will buttons of some sort be displayed or marked on the touchpad?


That is how I read it - the controller will display the various buttons needed on the touchpad itself. So some games will have more buttons that others and some will have the layout of the buttons differently arranged (I assume this holds true for the d-pad as well).
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Dafones
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2005, 05:57:48 PM »

I need to feel the buttons to play video games. I'm not going to look at my controller every time I want to jump to make sure my finger is above the right "button".
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leo8877
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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2005, 06:00:53 PM »

Come on third party Nintendo!!!!
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AgtFox
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2005, 06:12:26 PM »

Quote from: "leo8877"
Come on third party Nintendo!!!!

Funny thing is that this seems to be closer to reality than before.  Iwata said something like, "Sony is the only competition we have next generation"...maybe Microsoft is buying Nintendo or they're merging the games departments.  I know it's unimaginable, but I've seen stranger things...
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2005, 06:21:25 PM »

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Microsoft is buying Nintendo or they're merging the games departments.

Oh if I were any good at art I'd be drawing a little plumber in a black suit hanging from the ceiling with a knife....
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leo8877
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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2005, 06:28:56 PM »

Quote from: "AgtFox"
Quote from: "leo8877"
Come on third party Nintendo!!!!

Funny thing is that this seems to be closer to reality than before.  Iwata said something like, "Sony is the only competition we have next generation"...maybe Microsoft is buying Nintendo or they're merging the games departments.  I know it's unimaginable, but I've seen stranger things...


I wish they would.  They could stay in the handheld console market, but make games for Xbox and PS.  That would be wonderful.
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EddieA
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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2005, 06:40:17 PM »

Game Informer is great for world exclusives and previews, but I've found most of their rumors don't pan out.  While it's possible that the Revolution controller will have a built-in touchscreen, there's no way there won't be analog sticks and buttons.  It wouldn't make sense - they'd turn off both hardcore gamers and the new gamers they're trying to attract.  Even people who know next to nothing about video games know that controllers are supposed to have sticks and buttons - they'd be intimidated by a controller that doesn't.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2005, 07:04:26 PM »

This rumor is much older than the recent Game Informer and its been pretty persistant.  We won't know for sure until E3 and maybe even after but I think its pretty likely.

I think this is getting close to the only move that Nintendo can make.  With Revolution they are going to try and set themselves apart from MS and Sony.  Do we really need a third console for multi-platform ports?  Judging by the abysmal sales of of those ports on the Cube this generation I say no.  

I think Nintendo is going to make a strong push for exclusive content for almost all of their third party products next generation and they are going to do it by introducing a new controller style that will make ports of games for PS3 and Xbox 2 very difficult.  By introducing a new controller type they are effectively ensuring any games being built around it are exclusive to Revolution.

I think this is why its important that Nintendo not show this off until its ready.  If they really think this will make for better games its imperative that they have fully realized game content at the unveiling that demonstrates it.  

As for Nintendo going 3rd party- hasn't worked out too well for Sega.
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Dimmona
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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2005, 07:12:23 PM »

The DS has convinced me the usefulness of a touchpad interface, but using one for all of the controls!?  There's just no sense of feedback when tapping a touchpad, and analog movement/control is impossible (try playing Mario DS using the touch stick mode).

I dunno, I'm all for having some sort of touchpad on the controller for input, but I'm not sure having a touchpad for everything is such a hot idea.  It's all speculation and rumors at this point, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Nintendo has up their sleeves.


Oh, and pretty please bring back the Dreamcast style VMU for next generation controllers.  Playing minigames to level up my Skies of Arcadia characters is just pure awesomeness.
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Scott
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« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2005, 12:57:55 AM »

Gamepads have been around pre-Nintendo.  There was a competitor to the Atari 2600 that used gamepads I think.  I think part of it wasn't even a touchpad wheel.  Not sure it was the Colecovision or not.   One of those systems had one.

I agree, horrible idea.  I can see it being kind of a gimmack, or secondary control, but nothing else.  People need to feel the buttons, and be able to easily judge how hard/fast they push them.  For the DS, you are also looking at both screens.  You're not looking at your lap at the same time as the tv screen.  

I just don't see Nintendo doing this.

The Wavebird is great, but the overall Cube controller sucks, as did the N64. You really need the two full analog controls like the PS2 controller.  Give me a combination of the PS2 pad the XBox S.  The size of the XBox S and the two analog sticks on (firmer then the PS2 ones),  and the soft buttons of the PS2 pad.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2005, 01:39:18 AM »

Count me among those who have no issues with the Cube controller.  I like it just fine.

Maybe its a by-product of having a Cube library primarily composed of exclusives though.  I haven't played too many ports of games that were designed with the Dual Shock or Xbox controller in mind.  I did find that I had no trouble controlling Twin Snakes and that game ported controls designed very specifically for the Dual Shock.
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Jumangi
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« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2005, 08:59:58 AM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
I think Nintendo is going to make a strong push for exclusive content for almost all of their third party products next generation and they are going to do it by introducing a new controller style that will make ports of games for PS3 and Xbox 2 very difficult.  By introducing a new controller type they are effectively ensuring any games being built around it are exclusive to Revolution.


The flaw in that logic would be I see there being less and less exclusive 3rd party content. Games are simply costing too much to make and will only go up. This generation has shown it even more with all the ports and multi-platform titles. Publishers need to spread out the costs. Only a select few first party AAA titles like MGS, Halo, Mario, Zelda can make it as an exclusive IMO. Yea they can make any games exclusive by the choice of a controller design like that(if its true) but how many publishers are simply going to say Revolution or PS3/XB2? I think thats a pretty easy answer.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2005, 10:17:19 AM »

Quote
Yea they can make any games exclusive by the choice of a controller design like that(if its true) but how many publishers are simply going to say Revolution or PS3/XB2? I think thats a pretty easy answer.


But the same thing is already happening now and publishers are opting to not even do straight up ports to the Cube.  If Revolution brings something unique to the table, and in doing so a unique market segment, then publishers will support it.  Or at least thats what Nintendo hopes.

Ironically 3rd parties have had the most success on the Cube with exclusives which actually tend to do better than expected.  I'm surprised Nintendo hasn't pushed this aspect more this generation but I do expect them to push it next.  

Its not necessarilly a recipe for success but I think its a gamble that Nintendo feels they have to take.  I just don't think the market is going to support three consoles next generation if 90% of the software on all of them is exactly the same.  Consumers are going to opt with the PS3 or Xbox 2.  I don't think the Xbox 2's early entry into next generation will have much impact on its standing with PS3 but I do think its going to effectively kill Revolution if all Revolution turns out to be is a platform of comparible  power to PS3 and Xbox 2.  Head to head, PS3 will slaughter the Revolution at launch and with Xbox 2 already having a year of sales in its belt, Nintendo will ensure a distant third place finish next time out (vice the close second it will be this time).  Nintendo has to do something radically different to remain viable.  

Its a similar strategy that they are pushing with the DS and even with a limited amount of software on the market they are already seeing some success.  The DS's unique hardware means that its not ideal for straight up ports yet its getting excellent 3rd party support.  Just about every major publisher is supporting the DS with unique content even if the actual delivery of that content is taking longer than Nintendo would like.
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The Rocketman
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« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2005, 11:03:15 AM »

I for one love the idea!

What do we have now? 3 identical consoles, with some hardware-differences. They even have games for all 3 consoles for cryin' out loud! I think it's absolutely a smart move to differentiate yourself from this. People could fight over buying an xbox2/ps3 and buy a nintendo that has completely different kind of games! It would divide the market in 2 halves: games like what we're used to, and completely redesigned 'games'.

Come on people, games these days are so boring! Oh, it's an rts, oh it's a racer, oh it's a shooter... blech

Gaming can be reinvented as far as I'm concerned. Nowadays you expect 'features' in a game, and yes, games are great fun, but they're all the same. Why? I don't know, but I'm sure the fact that they all use identical controllers has something to do with it.

And they could make those new controllers in such a way, that they would create a number of 'touchpad-buttons'. So you'd have a touchpad where your left thumb is, a touch pad where your right thumb is etc. so you don't have to look down on the screen, and that your fingers are automatically correctly alligned...


Do I really want just prettier games with better AI? Yes!
But do I also crave for some new fresh ideas in gaming? Yes!!

The 2 could perfectly coexist, and let microsoft and sony fight amongst themselves for their piece of the market.
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Arkon
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« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2005, 12:31:43 PM »

What exactly could they do with a touchpad to "revolutionize" games tho... it would be ... ooh look a rts... that I can sort of control with this touchpad instead of a regular controller...or yay a racer that I can't control because all I got is this touchpad.  I don't see the touchpad as being revolutionary like the dual shock was.
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Scott
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« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2005, 08:46:02 PM »

Quote
If Revolution brings something unique to the table, and in doing so a unique market segment, then publishers will support it. Or at least thats what Nintendo hopes.

I understand your rationale, but I don't see publishers supporting any console unless it seels significant numbers.  Nintendo will get a bunch of sales based on Mario and Pokemon, but without strong third party support, a lot of fence sitters will go with the PS3/XBox Next.  

I agree with the sentiments that games just cost so much to develop now, let alone for the next gen systems, that if developers can't develop cross platform, they probably won't make the game.  Fewer and fewer games aren't cross platform.  Developers can get away with doing PS2 only games because of the mass of PS2s out there, but there just don't seem to be as many pure Cube games.  I doubt the third party Cube only games are making a ton of money in the US.
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« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2005, 09:00:35 PM »

Quote
I understand your rationale, but I don't see publishers supporting any console unless it seels significant numbers. Nintendo will get a bunch of sales based on Mario and Pokemon, but without strong third party support, a lot of fence sitters will go with the PS3/XBox Next.


But devs are supporting the DS.  

And those fence sitters are *still* going to go with PS3/Xbox 2.  It already happened this generation.  The Cube had excellent 3rd party support to start with  and it didn't really help them.  Everyone was optimistic that this time out would be better than N64 because there was so much better 3rd party support.   And for a time there was but the sales still didn't materialize in significant numbers.    

I ask again, if all hardware and software next gen is comparibly equal in capability whats the rationale for thinking that Nintendo will be anything other than a distant 3rd?

As Rocketman mentioned, I think Nintendo sees their best bet is to become the "alternate console" whether its a console for people who have no interest in the style of games on PS3/Xbox 2 or a second console in the house of someone who already has one of the above.
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ingrin
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« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2005, 09:11:20 PM »

Quote from: "AgtFox"
Quote from: "leo8877"
Come on third party Nintendo!!!!

Funny thing is that this seems to be closer to reality than before.  Iwata said something like, "Sony is the only competition we have next generation"...maybe Microsoft is buying Nintendo or they're merging the games departments.  I know it's unimaginable, but I've seen stranger things...

How many degrees are there in a single "Revolution"?
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