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Author Topic: Xbox One Discussion  (Read 83044 times)
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« Reply #1880 on: September 06, 2013, 04:08:48 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on September 06, 2013, 04:07:12 PM

Xbox One to sell at a profit.

Quote
Microsoft plans to sell the Xbox One at a slight profit at launch, suggest comments made by Yusuf Mehdi.

This is an ambitious plan, as most console manufacturers aside from Nintendo sell machines at a loss, making up for the deficit with licenses and other fees.

This could be a long-term boon for Microsoft, who is launching its console at a higher price tag than its rival, but might be able to lower the cost to consumers to more competitive rates faster without hurting its bottom line.

“The strategy will continue which is that we're looking to be break even or low margin at worst on [Xbox One] and then make money selling additional games, the Xbox Live service and other capabilities on top,” Mehdi told an audience at the Citi Global Technology Conference on Tuesday, as reported by GamesIndustry International.

"And as we can cost-reduce our box as we've done with 360, we'll do that to continue to price reduce and get even more competitive with our offering."

sounds like they're giving themselves an out for quick price cuts.

Which is a terrible thing to say publicly as it will drive the 'wait for a price cut' conversation.
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« Reply #1881 on: September 06, 2013, 04:26:20 PM »

Everyone sells at a profit these days. Sony will most likely also gain a profit from selling the PS4. The difference is that (as far as I know) they aren't saying it out loud.
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« Reply #1882 on: September 06, 2013, 06:56:20 PM »

sell-at-a-loss almost killed Sony with the PS3 (when it was selling at a loss, and people were buying it for a BD player only). I expect both companies to not lose money and bank on attach rates for games.
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« Reply #1883 on: September 06, 2013, 07:14:50 PM »

They were (or perhaps still are) selling the Vita at a loss.  They expected it to be three years before they could turn a profit on it.
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« Reply #1884 on: September 06, 2013, 07:39:32 PM »

The margin is probably a lot lower than the PS3/360 launch. MS was losing more than 150 at one point, IIRC.
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« Reply #1885 on: September 07, 2013, 03:11:06 PM »

Quote from: Jumangi on September 06, 2013, 03:58:14 PM

The first Xbox One commercial...looks at those games!  Roll Eyes

http://kotaku.com/the-first-xbox-one-tv-commercial-has-no-video-games-i-1260546035

 icon_eek  Seriously?  Did they not learn anything from their first reveal? 
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« Reply #1886 on: September 07, 2013, 03:30:50 PM »

Quote from: Jumangi on September 06, 2013, 03:58:14 PM

The first Xbox One commercial...looks at those games!  Roll Eyes

http://kotaku.com/the-first-xbox-one-tv-commercial-has-no-video-games-i-1260546035

It's a co-branded commercial that I believe aired during the Broncos game on Thursday night.  Probably the only way to get a video game into it and have it make sense would be to show Madden, but then they'd have to get EA involved as well.  I am very anti-MS these days and even I don't see issue with this commercial.  It was targeted at football watchers who were watching a football game when it aired.
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« Reply #1887 on: September 07, 2013, 03:35:43 PM »

The dudebro console is going to get even more dudebro. All the FPS blood and football you can take!
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« Reply #1888 on: September 07, 2013, 04:22:58 PM »

The anti-Xbox backlash is starting to get a little ridiculous. They made some mistakes but Jesus they didn't kick puppies or give babies cancer.
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« Reply #1889 on: September 07, 2013, 04:35:02 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on September 07, 2013, 04:22:58 PM

The anti-Xbox backlash is starting to get a little ridiculous. They made some mistakes but Jesus they didn't kick puppies or give babies cancer.

I wouldn't call screwing over customers in every single design decision they made with the box in order to placate publishers who never asked for it "some mistakes", and I don't agree that they should be forgiven for it for a while. Sony got punished for years after their stupidity during the PS3 launch, and what Microsoft has been doing this time around is much, much worse. In a world where megacorporations can and will use every opportunity they have to milk the consumer for money and to sell him/her as a product in marketing, we don't have the luxury of "being nice" to them if they don't deserve it. Money is the only language they understand, and we haven't gotten far enough in this launch yet that this has become a factor.

So patience! Microsoft will be forgiven in time, as long as they don't keep being assholes. It's way too early to forgive them though, when we haven't had a chance to punish them yet.
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« Reply #1890 on: September 07, 2013, 05:57:13 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on September 07, 2013, 04:22:58 PM

The anti-Xbox backlash is starting to get a little ridiculous. They made some mistakes but Jesus they didn't kick puppies or give babies cancer.

My dislike actually started before XBone was even announced.  The 360 used to be my console of choice and then MS slowly made the interface very crappy/slow and started putting lots of ads in the interface when I already paid them money.  Then they came out with a bunch of crappy announcements for their next-gen console.  That being said, I will likely pick one up next year and give them another shot, but only after I have seen this thing out in the wild for a while and only when Titanfall and Fantasia come out.  If I could get those exclusives on the PS4, I wouldn't need the XBone at all, but I won't deny myself games I am interested in solely because I don't like MS' actions over the last couple of years.
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« Reply #1891 on: September 07, 2013, 07:01:00 PM »

I went from a now way in hell I get the xbone, to, umm I'll be getting one for sure this fall.  It has everything to do with Project Spark.
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« Reply #1892 on: September 07, 2013, 07:09:43 PM »

Quote from: tcweidner on September 07, 2013, 07:01:00 PM

I went from a now way in hell I get the xbone, to, umm I'll be getting one for sure this fall.  It has everything to do with Project Spark.

You probably already know this, but Project Spark will be out on PC too.
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« Reply #1893 on: September 07, 2013, 07:42:18 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on September 07, 2013, 07:09:43 PM

Quote from: tcweidner on September 07, 2013, 07:01:00 PM

I went from a now way in hell I get the xbone, to, umm I'll be getting one for sure this fall.  It has everything to do with Project Spark.

You probably already know this, but Project Spark will be out on PC too.

for Windows 8, unless they change their mind and make it Windows 7 compatible too.
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« Reply #1894 on: September 07, 2013, 07:51:42 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on September 07, 2013, 07:42:18 PM

Quote from: TiLT on September 07, 2013, 07:09:43 PM

Quote from: tcweidner on September 07, 2013, 07:01:00 PM

I went from a now way in hell I get the xbone, to, umm I'll be getting one for sure this fall.  It has everything to do with Project Spark.

You probably already know this, but Project Spark will be out on PC too.

for Windows 8, unless they change their mind and make it Windows 7 compatible too.

Knowing Microsoft, it's probably going to stay Windows 8 only. At least that OS is fast. I bought a new computer back in June, and the motherboard started acting up a few days ago, forcing me to send it back for service and start using my old PC again. That meant going from Win8 back to Win7 for a while. My first thought upon seeing Windows 7 again was "damn, that's pretty", followed by "damn, that's slow". Tongue
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« Reply #1895 on: September 07, 2013, 08:11:05 PM »

yeah its windows 8 too, and looks to stay that way. I was gonna get a Surface Pro, but after seeing how you can use the kinect to animate in the game ( which is such a cool and easy way to do animation) and looking at the high price of a pc kinect, the Xbox one is a steal at 500, when you compare.  Project Spark actually has a pretty high spec, so cheap tablets or laptops are out.  You need a decent gpu along with an i5 or higher, and windows 8 on a desktop really doesnt make sense, so xbox one it is.
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« Reply #1896 on: September 07, 2013, 08:57:14 PM »

Microsoft has reneged on many of the design decisions they made to placate customers. Not sure what punishing them for mistakes they've already corrected really accomplishes.

As far as the commercial goes, it was totally legit. With advertising, your goal is to differentiate yourself from the competition, not show how you're exactly the same.


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« Reply #1897 on: September 07, 2013, 09:07:16 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on September 07, 2013, 08:57:14 PM

Microsoft has reneged on many of the design decisions they made to placate customers. Not sure what punishing them for mistakes they've already corrected really accomplishes.

As far as the commercial goes, it was totally legit. With advertising, your goal is to differentiate yourself from the competition, not show how you're exactly the same.

Keep in mind this was the first commercial.  I think you have a bunch of hard core gamers that are feeling a bit jilted by Microsoft right now as they come to the realization that they are not the most important demographic for MS, which has been demonstrated at pretty much ever step of the way with the the XB1.  If they had done a game focused commercial before this I don't think you'd see nearly as many people upset.
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« Reply #1898 on: September 07, 2013, 09:27:11 PM »

They could be giving money away, and they'd be "devaluing the dollar".
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« Reply #1899 on: September 08, 2013, 01:50:25 AM »

Quote from: Purge on September 07, 2013, 09:27:11 PM

They could be giving money away, and they'd be "devaluing the dollar".

damn dirty dollar devaluators.
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« Reply #1900 on: September 08, 2013, 04:07:48 AM »

as far as that first commercial, I just think that has to do with their cross promotions and brand tie in with the NFL.  Look around the NFL sidelines beginning today and you will see xbox stuff and logo on lots of things

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« Reply #1901 on: September 08, 2013, 05:53:18 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing on September 07, 2013, 08:57:14 PM

Microsoft has reneged on many of the design decisions they made to placate customers. Not sure what punishing them for mistakes they've already corrected really accomplishes.





The fact they would do them in the first place, despite obvious evidence that there would be backlash, does not instill confidence in the company and makes me not want to spend my money there until I watch them for a bit.  I'm protecting myself, not punishing them.
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« Reply #1902 on: September 08, 2013, 02:20:30 PM »

Do you own steam games? Try trading them in (even the ones you bought at B&M and had to register on Steam).

To your point, Grue, YOU are not punishing them. Read some of the other posts. There is clearly an ax to grind. The heartbeat (aka online only)- that was probably a placation to the publishers - and it was ill-conceived, as was the Kinect-always on. No excuse there - they dropped the ball, fumbled a bit, and then picked it up. If I was in a remote area, I'd be pissed, then relieved - not trying to exact some pound of flesh.

None of the changes in the platform implementation are groundbreaking though, and it sounds like the online license model is, at least from the looks of things, intact on the online-only component. I could see them 6mo - 1y from now putting out a flagship game like Halo5 both local-and-online-only as options - and selling the online only version cheaper to move the market into a more gradual adoption.

Frankly, I was concerned about the sheer amount of data we'd be looking at downloading for online titles - ISP limits would be pushed for some.

Everything else? Meh - we're already there.
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« Reply #1903 on: September 08, 2013, 02:53:41 PM »

Like I said, though, they were already on the wrong path with me before the announced the XB1.  Went from being my console of choice for multiplatform titles to the PS3 being the choice.  I rarely turn the 360 on at this point.  As for Steam, yes I do own games, but their offline  model is much more generous.  I'm not mad about DRM or anything like that.  Steam has a much more forgiving stance than XB1 was going to have.  And to top it all off, Steam actually offers pricing that makes up for the fact that I can't trade things in.  MS has kind of sort of started to do this wiith the 360, but we'll see what they do with the XB1.  Again, that's why I am waiting until next year.  I want to watch this company.
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« Reply #1904 on: September 08, 2013, 03:25:59 PM »

Quote from: tcweidner on September 08, 2013, 04:07:48 AM

as far as that first commercial, I just think that has to do with their cross promotions and brand tie in with the NFL.  Look around the NFL sidelines beginning today and you will see xbox stuff and logo on lots of things


There were also XBox 720 advertisements decorating the grand arena in Real Steel.  Maybe if Microsoft hadn't scrapped that console to work on the XBox One, we'd have punching robots by now.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #1905 on: September 08, 2013, 03:59:39 PM »

Quote from: tcweidner on September 08, 2013, 04:07:48 AM

as far as that first commercial, I just think that has to do with their cross promotions and brand tie in with the NFL.  Look around the NFL sidelines beginning today and you will see xbox stuff and logo on lots of things



Glad they have their priorities straight about what the Xbox One is about... icon_confused
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« Reply #1906 on: September 08, 2013, 04:05:40 PM »

Quote from: Purge on September 08, 2013, 02:20:30 PM

Do you own steam games? Try trading them in (even the ones you bought at B&M and had to register on Steam).


I feel like this would be a more effective counterpoint if Steam games were not consistently available for 50% - 60% the cost of their console counterparts.  I bought Saints Row IV on release week for $35.  Same for Borderlands 2 with the Season Pass.  DmC ran me $15 in the last Green Man Gaming sale; GameStop currently lists a used 360 copy for twice that amount.

Microsoft occasionally puts digital versions of games on sale in the 360 marketplace, but mostly they're MSRP with no savings for the cheap distribution, lack of trade-in options, or the fact that I'm paying them a subscription fee to view their paid advertisements on my console.  There's no upside.

It was a wise decision for them to back down from their Always Online, No Trading, Limited Lending plan.  Hopefully by the time they try that again, they'll be able to offer consumers something in exchange for such drastically curtailed ownership rights.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #1907 on: September 08, 2013, 04:36:21 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on September 08, 2013, 04:05:40 PM

Quote from: Purge on September 08, 2013, 02:20:30 PM

Do you own steam games? Try trading them in (even the ones you bought at B&M and had to register on Steam).


I feel like this would be a more effective counterpoint if Steam games were not consistently available for 50% - 60% the cost of their console counterparts.  I bought Saints Row IV on release week for $35.  Same for Borderlands 2 with the Season Pass.  DmC ran me $15 in the last Green Man Gaming sale; GameStop currently lists a used 360 copy for twice that amount.

Microsoft occasionally puts digital versions of games on sale in the 360 marketplace, but mostly they're MSRP with no savings for the cheap distribution, lack of trade-in options, or the fact that I'm paying them a subscription fee to view their paid advertisements on my console.  There's no upside.

It was a wise decision for them to back down from their Always Online, No Trading, Limited Lending plan.  Hopefully by the time they try that again, they'll be able to offer consumers something in exchange for such drastically curtailed ownership rights.

-Autistic Angel

Yes, this is it exactly. As a consumer I am going to buy what I percieve to be the best deal, and MS failed to deliver that message to me. Meanwhile Sony was waving us all in.
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« Reply #1908 on: September 08, 2013, 05:05:01 PM »

Quote from: Purge on September 08, 2013, 02:20:30 PM

I could see them 6mo - 1y from now putting out a flagship game like Halo5 both local-and-online-only as options - and selling the online only version cheaper to move the market into a more gradual adoption.

I don't think that they will be in a position to do that this gen, the retail partners are still too important. I could, however, see them do other sorts of value-added promotions that amount to the same thing (like buy a digital copy of title X and save ten bucks off title Y).

Has there been any noise made yet about "trade ins" of digitally purchased items?
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« Reply #1909 on: September 08, 2013, 05:10:11 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on September 08, 2013, 05:05:01 PM

Quote from: Purge on September 08, 2013, 02:20:30 PM

I could see them 6mo - 1y from now putting out a flagship game like Halo5 both local-and-online-only as options - and selling the online only version cheaper to move the market into a more gradual adoption.

I don't think that they will be in a position to do that this gen, the retail partners are still too important. I could, however, see them do other sorts of value-added promotions that amount to the same thing (like buy a digital copy of title X and save ten bucks off title Y).

I'd say it's more likely they'll release online only games, pulling the Sim City trick by pretending that it's "necessary" for the experience. Combine that with exclusive preorder bonuses for buying digital, and more people are likely to go that way.

Having said that, I believe Sony will do something similar sooner rather than later. More of the latter than the former, so I don't expect many online only titles from them for a good while.
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« Reply #1910 on: September 08, 2013, 05:17:57 PM »

Titanfall's sales will likely dictate in part how much we see online only titles released.
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« Reply #1911 on: September 08, 2013, 05:18:44 PM »

Actually, to disagree with what I just said, I could see them selling digital cheaper and including retailers in the promotion. GameStop has been selling digital copies of software for some time. I presume BestBuy and Walmart can do so, or could add the capability.
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« Reply #1912 on: September 08, 2013, 06:22:57 PM »

I totally agree that Steam sales overcome trade-in limitations - and MS has to work with pubs to put themselves in the same position - but two months after a retail release is well within the trade-in window that *I* would use, and those games (unless you snagged a 3rd party deal ala GMG) you're paying MSRP (or at best, 10% off) for the PC game. If I wait 6 months, yeah, I can get a deal - but my gaming habits aren't always that responsible slywink.

As PC gaming is going to be more competitive against consoles, I could see the 39.99 price point creeping up to the $60 mark as a standard.

TiLT, you know that their cloud service is there to help devs who couldn't otherwise afford dedicated server farms, right? I don't know if this counts as "justification" but I can understand your concern - I doubt that they *need* to force it on devs - developers are getting assistance from infrastructure they wouldn't otherwise have - that's all bonus. If it means the game is online only, then so be it.

That would be a DEV/PUB decision to rely on cloud, not an MSFT one.
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« Reply #1913 on: September 08, 2013, 06:38:09 PM »

Quote from: Purge on September 08, 2013, 06:22:57 PM

That would be a DEV/PUB decision to rely on cloud, not an MSFT one.

Developers have nothing to do with it. It's a publisher decision, and Microsoft is a publisher. It's that simple.
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« Reply #1914 on: September 08, 2013, 08:33:35 PM »

Xbox One UI on Youtube. Watch it before it gets pulled. Could be a matter of minutes.

It looks almost exactly like the Windows 8 UI which nobody likes. Microsoft will have an uphill battle convincing people that this is the way to go, but if they can do it somehow, it'll probably translate into bigger acceptance of Windows 8, which is probably their plan anyway.

Edit: It's been pulled.
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« Reply #1915 on: September 08, 2013, 08:48:07 PM »

yeah, that's fugly.  not sure why they insist on cramming everything into that small space

I remember not liking the latest 360 one, but with Kinect I don't even have to scroll with the controller for most of the stuff I access, and since I'm in a country that will support voice commands at launch I don't think it will be an issue for me.  of course, every time I start up the system it will remind me why I'll never update to Windows 8.  tiles are bullshit.
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« Reply #1916 on: September 08, 2013, 09:27:20 PM »

agreed - fugly. The metro UI works on the PC but at first glance not on the console. There are just too many icons there for any real semblance of order.

Yuck.
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« Reply #1917 on: September 08, 2013, 09:46:48 PM »

If the idea behind the Metro UI is to segue over to touchscreen controls, what's the point of having the UI on the Xbone interface without widespread touchscreen TVs? 

Well actually, I guess if they want you to be using the Kinect to control all your menus there could be a lot of similarities between touchscreen UI design and hand waggle UI design.
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« Reply #1918 on: September 08, 2013, 10:17:10 PM »

That's Windows 8 alright. I don't think it looks bad. Actually what I really thought was 'jeez, that's a huge console' although it was hard to get a good look due to shaky cam.
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« Reply #1919 on: September 09, 2013, 05:24:56 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on September 08, 2013, 06:38:09 PM

Quote from: Purge on September 08, 2013, 06:22:57 PM

That would be a DEV/PUB decision to rely on cloud, not an MSFT one.

Developers have nothing to do with it. It's a publisher decision, and Microsoft is a publisher. It's that simple.

So Microsoft is publishing all games on their platform now? News to me.

Also, to help you out:

Quote from: Wiki Game Publisher
A video game publisher is a company that publishes video games that they have either developed internally or have had developed by a video game developer.

As with book publishers or publishers of DVD movies, video game publishers are responsible for their product's manufacturing and marketing, including market research and all aspects of advertising.

They usually finance the development, sometimes by paying a video game developer (the publisher calls this external development) and sometimes by paying an internal staff of developers called a studio. The large video game publishers also distribute the games they publish, while some smaller publishers instead hire distribution companies (or larger video game publishers) to distribute the games they publish.

Other functions usually performed by the publisher include deciding on and paying for any license that the game may utilize; paying for localization; layout, printing, and possibly the writing of the user manual; and the creation of graphic design elements such as the box design.

Large publishers may also attempt to boost efficiency across all internal and external development teams by providing services such as sound design and code packages for commonly needed functionality.

Because the publisher usually finances development, it usually tries to manage development risk with a staff of producers or project managers to monitor the progress of the developer, critique ongoing development, and assist as necessary. Most video games created by an external video game developer are paid for with periodic advances on royalties. These advances are paid when the developer reaches certain stages of development, called milestones.

If the development studio is "internal" then the dev/pub is effectively the same. The relationship is different otherwise. There is no reason for a publisher to *want* to leverage cloud-based computing unless MSFT is directly involved, unless the developer chooses to leverage the platform because it improves their game.

Creating an online-only dependency is a risk - and not every game dev/pub wants to exclude those who don't have always-on Internet access.
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