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Author Topic: Xbox One Discussion  (Read 57421 times)
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TiLT
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« Reply #880 on: May 30, 2013, 08:47:29 PM »

Here's an article that takes a closer look at the situation for digital games (such as indie games) on the Xbox One. While Microsoft has confirmed that you can't publish for their console without an actual publisher (unlike the PS4), the situation is actually worse than that. I frankly had no idea. It turns out that in order to publish a digital-only game, a publisher must have published 2 retail games through the Xbox ecosystem already. In order to publish their first digital-only game, they must have published 3 retail games. As the author points out, this will make it increasingly tricky for indies to get through and make it onto the platform. That publisher they're talking to? They only have a limited few slots they can use for digital-only titles, and they might want to reserve those for internal projects. Indies will have a really rough time convincing a publisher to use one of their extremely valuable slots on them.

On the plus side, the article mentions that Microsoft quietly removed the patch fee for digital-only games a few weeks ago. I don't know the status of PS3 games and their patch fee, so I don't know how Sony compares in that regard. That's a small step in the right direction, but it should have come a long time ago, and it's not even close to being enough, particularly with this new information.

I recommend reading the article in its entirety. It goes into some depth on the issue, showing why it is likely to be a problem and what effects it has already had on the current marketplace. Microsoft has said that they have something for indies at E3, so we'll have to wait and see what that's going to be. Their confirmation that indies will need publishers is a major problem for them however, and I can't imagine what they'll come up with that can fix that.

This is particularly bothersome to me since the most important reason I bought an Xbox 360 was the selection of excellent Xbox Live Arcade games on it. In hindsight I might as well have waited for the PC versions that were unannounced at the time, but hey, I can't look into the future. At the time these digital-only titles were rare across all platforms, even the PC, so the Xbox slots weren't quite as precious as they are now. It was a huge advantage for Microsoft, but it doesn't sound like they've realized that the rest of the world has not only caught up with them, but actually surpassed them too. If the PS4 ends up getting all the interesting digital-only titles, how many people will let that affect their purchasing decision?
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« Reply #881 on: May 30, 2013, 11:42:06 PM »

Quote from: Purge on May 30, 2013, 08:00:34 PM

Quote from: Turtle on May 30, 2013, 07:03:55 PM

If Purge and ATB's posts were on the PS4 thread for that system back in the olden days, people would be breaking out the SDF images and berating them left and right, and branding them to the level of certain infamous posters

Wonder why the double standard here?

Scratch that, Turtle. Don't bother responding. You've clearly got a particular vision of me, and I have no interest in the painstaking effort of digging up links. I'm pretty darned comfortable with who I am and how I've conducted myself.

If you want to report me for trolling or other actions that are against the Code of Conduct, feel free. My staff position is totally unrelated to my forum membership, and your accusation comes off as calling into question the bias of the management and mods of the forums.


I don't think that's what he was doing, I think he was pointing out that if you or ATB were doing in the PS4 thread what other people are doing here there'd be a big outcry against you by those people but they don't seem to think they should be called out for what they are doing here. 

personally those people have done enough to disincline me from getting a PS4, and at this point it's better to ignore them; likewise others have never been worth the effort that is being put into these back and forth arguments in the first place.
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« Reply #882 on: May 30, 2013, 11:49:49 PM »

I read it that way the first time, but when I read it the second time it seems to have flipped. He meant PS3 in the old days. Once you see the text flub, it becomes painfully apparent.
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« Reply #883 on: May 30, 2013, 11:53:35 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on May 30, 2013, 08:47:29 PM

Here's an article that takes a closer look at the situation for digital games (such as indie games) on the Xbox One. While Microsoft has confirmed that you can't publish for their console without an actual publisher (unlike the PS4), the situation is actually worse than that. I frankly had no idea. It turns out that in order to publish a digital-only game, a publisher must have published 2 retail games through the Xbox ecosystem already. In order to publish their first digital-only game, they must have published 3 retail games. As the author points out, this will make it increasingly tricky for indies to get through and make it onto the platform. That publisher they're talking to? They only have a limited few slots they can use for digital-only titles, and they might want to reserve those for internal projects. Indies will have a really rough time convincing a publisher to use one of their extremely valuable slots on them.

On the plus side, the article mentions that Microsoft quietly removed the patch fee for digital-only games a few weeks ago. I don't know the status of PS3 games and their patch fee, so I don't know how Sony compares in that regard. That's a small step in the right direction, but it should have come a long time ago, and it's not even close to being enough, particularly with this new information.

I recommend reading the article in its entirety. It goes into some depth on the issue, showing why it is likely to be a problem and what effects it has already had on the current marketplace. Microsoft has said that they have something for indies at E3, so we'll have to wait and see what that's going to be. Their confirmation that indies will need publishers is a major problem for them however, and I can't imagine what they'll come up with that can fix that.

This is particularly bothersome to me since the most important reason I bought an Xbox 360 was the selection of excellent Xbox Live Arcade games on it. In hindsight I might as well have waited for the PC versions that were unannounced at the time, but hey, I can't look into the future. At the time these digital-only titles were rare across all platforms, even the PC, so the Xbox slots weren't quite as precious as they are now. It was a huge advantage for Microsoft, but it doesn't sound like they've realized that the rest of the world has not only caught up with them, but actually surpassed them too. If the PS4 ends up getting all the interesting digital-only titles, how many people will let that affect their purchasing decision?

See, and then you go and write stuff like this - which I very much enjoy.

The thing about the XBLA digital titles are what they're referring to - the indie section doesn't have that requirement. The "Arcade" designation is certainly coveted (from an indie developer perspective). It seems like they're trying to keep crappy games off the XBLA name, but still have indie games available.

I haven't read the article - I'll do so later tonight.
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« Reply #884 on: May 31, 2013, 03:42:17 AM »

Penis




And somehow that is NOT the most immature comment posted here...
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« Reply #885 on: May 31, 2013, 09:02:34 AM »

Dickbutts?
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« Reply #886 on: May 31, 2013, 10:33:11 AM »

Man reading this thread its like 2006/2007 all over again. This generation went on so long I forgot what console fanboy forum spats were.
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« Reply #887 on: May 31, 2013, 12:48:26 PM »



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« Reply #888 on: May 31, 2013, 12:50:33 PM »

Just catching up on CAD ... here's another relevant one:



Yes, Tim is an Xbox fan in case, you know... BIAS. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #889 on: May 31, 2013, 03:03:44 PM »

Microsoft-keep your Xbox 360 if you want to play XBLA games


gee thanks for the tip Microsoft Roll Eyes
Quote
"The box is not backward compatible and we think for somebody who invests in a large digital library that you want to keep your [Xbox 360]."

we knew this anyway...just how he says it,tosser Tongue

I personally if i "invested in a large digital library" would want that library to transfer over...but thats me,and i know we have been over this before in this thread finger

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« Reply #890 on: May 31, 2013, 03:08:00 PM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on May 31, 2013, 03:03:44 PM

Microsoft-keep your Xbox 360 if you want to play XBLA games


gee thanks for the tip Microsoft Roll Eyes
Quote
"The box is not backward compatible and we think for somebody who invests in a large digital library that you want to keep your [Xbox 360]."

we knew this anyway...just how he says it,tosser Tongue

I personally if i "invested in a large digital library" would want that library to transfer over...but thats me,and i know we have been over this before in this thread finger



See. Now this is one thing I just don't get. How hard can it be for them to allow these games to be re-dl'd on a new system? Unless they are completely revamping the XBL architecture. Even then?

I don't get this at all. So much for the idea of 'Xbox One'.

Waiting for the megaton announcement that they can't guarantee you your old XBL name as the reason for this nonsense.
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« Reply #891 on: May 31, 2013, 03:27:48 PM »

Well, I'm with you that it sucks you can't use your XBLA collection on the XBONE, but if they don't have backwards compatibility for disc games then I guess it follows they don't have backwards compatibility for XBLA games.  The only difference between the two is the distribution method.
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« Reply #892 on: May 31, 2013, 03:41:08 PM »

Funny thing is, those games all had to be made using the 360 API, meaning that they could be ported over with a bit of effort. Heck, probably less effort if you just modified the 360 API to allow developers to port their own games to run on the One.

Considering MS' treatment of Arcade and Indie titles in the last few years, it reeks of PS3 launch level laziness.
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« Reply #893 on: May 31, 2013, 03:49:36 PM »

Quote from: Purge on May 31, 2013, 12:48:26 PM



LOL.
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« Reply #894 on: May 31, 2013, 03:55:36 PM »

They should come out with a tiny 360 without an optical drive so you can keep it in your entertainment unit and play XBLA games.

And then give it away for free. Or to me for free.
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« Reply #895 on: May 31, 2013, 04:09:52 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on May 31, 2013, 03:55:36 PM

They should come out with a tiny 360 without an optical drive so you can keep it in your entertainment unit and play XBLA games.

And then give it away for free. Or to me for free.

the Mini-Box!
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« Reply #896 on: May 31, 2013, 04:10:14 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on May 31, 2013, 03:55:36 PM

They should come out with a tiny 360 without an optical drive so you can keep it in your entertainment unit and play XBLA games.

And then give it away for free. Or to me for free.

I am pretty sure when all those Xbox One rumours were coming out,one rumour said exactly what you said was going to happen as an add on for the Xbox One

not the give away free thing though icon_biggrin
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« Reply #897 on: May 31, 2013, 04:10:44 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on May 31, 2013, 04:09:52 PM

Quote from: Teggy on May 31, 2013, 03:55:36 PM

They should come out with a tiny 360 without an optical drive so you can keep it in your entertainment unit and play XBLA games.

And then give it away for free. Or to me for free.

the Mini-Box!

or the 180!
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« Reply #898 on: May 31, 2013, 05:49:01 PM »

360a.org

Xbox One Achievements to receive a monthly cap

yeah that headline doesn't quite say what the article means..or what people thought at first anyway

Quote
"We're seeing people get all 1,000 Gamerscore in the first two weeks, and then still be playing that game two months later," said Gibson.

"We want developers to offer Achievements and interesting things to do long after a game ships. You could be playing a game for a year and get a couple thousand Gamerscore because the developer is adding new Achievements every week or every month."

"Developers won't be adding 10,000 Gamerscore a day," Gibson continued. "The cap is, developers have Gamerscore they can spend every month. We don't want to overwhelm gamers."

it sounds decent enough i guess,we will already have the 1000 for each game(i presume,after what the first line of the quote says),not including what the developers add to the game at a later date(and for free i may add,not just because DLC is out)

Achievements for games sound much more exciting for this next gen
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« Reply #899 on: May 31, 2013, 05:59:48 PM »

make the new limit.....

1 MILLION GAMERSCORE!!!!

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« Reply #900 on: May 31, 2013, 06:00:57 PM »

If I didn't know better, that there sounds like encouragement to wait with buying games so that you can maximize your gamerscore with a minimum of effort. It could theoretically also encourage used games sales. If I didn't know better.

It's a neat idea in some ways (though I have to think about it to know if I like it or not), but I'm wondering what Microsoft's business reasons are for this move?
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« Reply #901 on: May 31, 2013, 06:04:39 PM »

TiLT's right!!....gamerscore will be the new microsoft point system!!

he said that,didn't he?  Tongue
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« Reply #902 on: May 31, 2013, 06:07:29 PM »

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« Reply #903 on: May 31, 2013, 06:33:40 PM »

No TV talk at E3

Quote
I can confirm that we will have TV's (or similar) on stage to show the games.That should be the extend of TV talk in your #E3
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« Reply #904 on: May 31, 2013, 07:57:46 PM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on May 31, 2013, 05:49:01 PM

360a.org

Xbox One Achievements to receive a monthly cap

yeah that headline doesn't quite say what the article means..or what people thought at first anyway

Quote
"We're seeing people get all 1,000 Gamerscore in the first two weeks, and then still be playing that game two months later," said Gibson.

"We want developers to offer Achievements and interesting things to do long after a game ships. You could be playing a game for a year and get a couple thousand Gamerscore because the developer is adding new Achievements every week or every month."

"Developers won't be adding 10,000 Gamerscore a day," Gibson continued. "The cap is, developers have Gamerscore they can spend every month. We don't want to overwhelm gamers."

it sounds decent enough i guess,we will already have the 1000 for each game(i presume,after what the first line of the quote says),not including what the developers add to the game at a later date(and for free i may add,not just because DLC is out)

Achievements for games sound much more exciting for this next gen

I like the idea, certainly for sandbox style games where you can do more ridiculous things. Games like Crackdown took advantage of this kind of achievement (eg: spear 3 people to one bus) but they were static. It could even work its way out to a monthly challenge. Racing games too.


As for the XBLA titles, I'm very disappointed, though I understand the architecture is different - some games have been ported to other platforms - so couldn't they go to those devs and get their PC-engine games certed and offer those to existing license holders?
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« Reply #905 on: May 31, 2013, 10:58:51 PM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on May 31, 2013, 03:03:44 PM

Microsoft-keep your Xbox 360 if you want to play XBLA games


gee thanks for the tip Microsoft Roll Eyes
Quote
"The box is not backward compatible and we think for somebody who invests in a large digital library that you want to keep your [Xbox 360]."

we knew this anyway...just how he says it,tosser Tongue

I personally if i "invested in a large digital library" would want that library to transfer over...but thats me,and i know we have been over this before in this thread finger



And Sony is awesome because your PSN games from your PS3 will be playable on your PS4.

Oh, wait a minute, they won't be.
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« Reply #906 on: June 01, 2013, 01:01:16 AM »

Figured that both MS and Sony would add something to spent your achievement/trophy points on. For MS, it will probably be related to the avatars if they still have them, or other stuff.
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« Reply #907 on: June 01, 2013, 06:23:23 AM »

Quote from: pr0ner on May 31, 2013, 10:58:51 PM

Quote from: metallicorphan on May 31, 2013, 03:03:44 PM

Microsoft-keep your Xbox 360 if you want to play XBLA games


gee thanks for the tip Microsoft Roll Eyes
Quote
"The box is not backward compatible and we think for somebody who invests in a large digital library that you want to keep your [Xbox 360]."

we knew this anyway...just how he says it,tosser Tongue

I personally if i "invested in a large digital library" would want that library to transfer over...but thats me,and i know we have been over this before in this thread finger



And Sony is awesome because your PSN games from your PS3 will be playable on your PS4.

Oh, wait a minute, they won't be.

At least they said during their conference that they're hoping to have PS3 games playable through their streaming service on the PS4, though they didn't commit to any ETA.
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« Reply #908 on: June 01, 2013, 08:32:31 AM »

Quote from: pr0ner on May 31, 2013, 10:58:51 PM

Quote from: metallicorphan on May 31, 2013, 03:03:44 PM

Microsoft-keep your Xbox 360 if you want to play XBLA games


gee thanks for the tip Microsoft Roll Eyes
Quote
"The box is not backward compatible and we think for somebody who invests in a large digital library that you want to keep your [Xbox 360]."

we knew this anyway...just how he says it,tosser Tongue

I personally if i "invested in a large digital library" would want that library to transfer over...but thats me,and i know we have been over this before in this thread finger



And Sony is awesome because your PSN games from your PS3 will be playable on your PS4.

Oh, wait a minute, they won't be.

You put that in like it makes it ok then. But no it isnt really it just means tehy both suck doesnt it.

Really this point blank defense of either M$ or Sony is going to get bloody boring if we cant put a block on it I can see forums in general being a real hell hole to visit.
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« Reply #909 on: June 01, 2013, 04:33:43 PM »

Quote from: Reemul on June 01, 2013, 08:32:31 AM

Really this point blank defense of either M$ or Sony is going to get bloody boring if we cant put a block on it I can see forums in general being a real hell hole to visit.

yet you put the $ in MS and leave the S in $ony...
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« Reply #910 on: June 01, 2013, 05:11:55 PM »

Quote from: Reemul on June 01, 2013, 08:32:31 AM

Quote from: pr0ner on May 31, 2013, 10:58:51 PM

Quote from: metallicorphan on May 31, 2013, 03:03:44 PM

Microsoft-keep your Xbox 360 if you want to play XBLA games


gee thanks for the tip Microsoft Roll Eyes
Quote
"The box is not backward compatible and we think for somebody who invests in a large digital library that you want to keep your [Xbox 360]."

we knew this anyway...just how he says it,tosser Tongue

I personally if i "invested in a large digital library" would want that library to transfer over...but thats me,and i know we have been over this before in this thread finger



And Sony is awesome because your PSN games from your PS3 will be playable on your PS4.

Oh, wait a minute, they won't be.

You put that in like it makes it ok then. But no it isnt really it just means tehy both suck doesnt it.

Really this point blank defense of either M$ or Sony is going to get bloody boring if we cant put a block on it I can see forums in general being a real hell hole to visit.

I didn't say it was okay.  But, speaking as someone who plans on buying both consoles, all the bashing, for any reason, gets tiresome.  Especially when people are attacking one company for doing something but ignoring the fact that the other company is doing the same thing.
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« Reply #911 on: June 02, 2013, 03:01:01 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on May 31, 2013, 06:00:57 PM

If I didn't know better, that there sounds like encouragement to wait with buying games so that you can maximize your gamerscore with a minimum of effort. It could theoretically also encourage used games sales. If I didn't know better.

It's a neat idea in some ways (though I have to think about it to know if I like it or not), but I'm wondering what Microsoft's business reasons are for this move?

To keep the game and not sell it would be my guess. The opposite of encouraging used game sales.  But I wonder how they can tell if people still care about gamerscore...i suspect most of us 'hardcore' gamers don't. Wonder if genpop still is enamored of them.
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« Reply #912 on: June 02, 2013, 10:05:30 AM »

Quote from: ATB on June 02, 2013, 03:01:01 AM

To keep the game and not sell it would be my guess.

I suppose. My point is that if you're going to play a game and actually care about your gamerscore, this system makes it better to wait a few months before buying it so that you'll get more score out of your time. I mean, it would have to be frustrating for a gamer to play through a game, then a week later see that something crazy he pulled off now suddenly awards an achievement, but not retroactively. The equation has always been "play now and pay more" vs "play later and pay less" when deciding whether to buy a game at launch or not. Now it'll also be "play now, pay more and earn less achievements" vs "play later, pay less and earn more achievements".
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« Reply #913 on: June 02, 2013, 10:16:46 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on June 02, 2013, 10:05:30 AM

Quote from: ATB on June 02, 2013, 03:01:01 AM

To keep the game and not sell it would be my guess.

I suppose. My point is that if you're going to play a game and actually care about your gamerscore, this system makes it better to wait a few months before buying it so that you'll get more score out of your time. I mean, it would have to be frustrating for a gamer to play through a game, then a week later see that something crazy he pulled off now suddenly awards an achievement, but not retroactively. The equation has always been "play now and pay more" vs "play later and pay less" when deciding whether to buy a game at launch or not. Now it'll also be "play now, pay more and earn less achievements" vs "play later, pay less and earn more achievements".

yeah i agree with this,i guess it depends on how they distribute the new achievements...but if you are 50 hrs into a game and then a new achievement comes out that can only be done near the beginning of the game that would be pretty annoying

I am however,really looking forward to seeing what the developers can come up with and i am looking forward to hunting down all i can
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ATB
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« Reply #914 on: June 02, 2013, 12:42:30 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on June 02, 2013, 10:05:30 AM

Quote from: ATB on June 02, 2013, 03:01:01 AM

To keep the game and not sell it would be my guess.

I suppose. My point is that if you're going to play a game and actually care about your gamerscore, this system makes it better to wait a few months before buying it so that you'll get more score out of your time. I mean, it would have to be frustrating for a gamer to play through a game, then a week later see that something crazy he pulled off now suddenly awards an achievement, but not retroactively. The equation has always been "play now and pay more" vs "play later and pay less" when deciding whether to buy a game at launch or not. Now it'll also be "play now, pay more and earn less achievements" vs "play later, pay less and earn more achievements".

Yeah this is a good point. Why not wait for the prices to drop knowing you'll get 'more' for the experience?
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« Reply #915 on: June 02, 2013, 03:28:20 PM »

Quote from: ATB on June 02, 2013, 03:01:01 AM

Quote from: TiLT on May 31, 2013, 06:00:57 PM

If I didn't know better, that there sounds like encouragement to wait with buying games so that you can maximize your gamerscore with a minimum of effort. It could theoretically also encourage used games sales. If I didn't know better.

It's a neat idea in some ways (though I have to think about it to know if I like it or not), but I'm wondering what Microsoft's business reasons are for this move?

To keep the game and not sell it would be my guess. The opposite of encouraging used game sales.  But I wonder how they can tell if people still care about gamerscore...i suspect most of us 'hardcore' gamers don't. Wonder if genpop still is enamored of them.


I've long thought that they need to spice up achievements and gamer scores by letting you use have access to download cool avatars or something for your live account if your score reaches a certain level.   Or perhaps if you get all the achievements in a game you unlock a couple avatars.   Etc etc.
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« Reply #916 on: June 02, 2013, 03:29:22 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 01, 2013, 04:33:43 PM

Quote from: Reemul on June 01, 2013, 08:32:31 AM

Really this point blank defense of either M$ or Sony is going to get bloody boring if we cant put a block on it I can see forums in general being a real hell hole to visit.

yet you put the $ in MS and leave the S in $ony...

Absolutely true.    We shouldn't drag M$$$ through the mud without giving $ony it's due.
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Re:
« Reply #917 on: June 02, 2013, 08:21:04 PM »

Quote from: Purge on May 31, 2013, 07:57:46 PM

Quote from: metallicorphan on May 31, 2013, 05:49:01 PM

360a.org

Xbox One Achievements to receive a monthly cap

yeah that headline doesn't quite say what the article means..or what people thought at first anyway

Quote
"We're seeing people get all 1,000 Gamerscore in the first two weeks, and then still be playing that game two months later," said Gibson.

"We want developers to offer Achievements and interesting things to do long after a game ships. You could be playing a game for a year and get a couple thousand Gamerscore because the developer is adding new Achievements every week or every month."

"Developers won't be adding 10,000 Gamerscore a day," Gibson continued. "The cap is, developers have Gamerscore they can spend every month. We don't want to overwhelm gamers."

it sounds decent enough i guess,we will already have the 1000 for each game(i presume,after what the first line of the quote says),not including what the developers add to the game at a later date(and for free i may add,not just because DLC is out)

Achievements for games sound much more exciting for this next gen

I like the idea, certainly for sandbox style games where you can do more ridiculous things. Games like Crackdown took advantage of this kind of achievement (eg: spear 3 people to one bus) but they were static. It could even work its way out to a monthly challenge. Racing games too.


As for the XBLA titles, I'm very disappointed, though I understand the architecture is different - some games have been ported to other platforms - so couldn't they go to those devs and get their PC-engine games certed and offer those to existing license holders?
I really hope they could do something like that with XBLA/PSN games that have been ported to the pc. But, I doubt that either company is going to spend the time and money to bother when they've already decided to forgo having why kind of software emulation for BC.

Has there been any progress in emulation for this generation on the pc?
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« Reply #918 on: June 05, 2013, 07:01:17 PM »

Rumors of yield issues and other problems.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=576869

Also, the actual TV stuff not looking so hot right now.


More and more it's looking like PS4 is the way to go this coming gen.
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« Reply #919 on: June 05, 2013, 07:20:11 PM »

one thing about neogaf is they have long ass posts to start threads.

what does 'yield' mean in this context?
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