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Author Topic: Xbox One Discussion  (Read 72759 times)
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Maggot
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« on: February 06, 2013, 12:41:09 PM »

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Microsoft’s next console will require an Internet connection in order to function, ruling out a second-hand game market for the platform. A new iteration of Xbox Live will be an integral part of Microsoft’s next console, while improved Kinect hardware will also ship alongside the unit.

Sources with first-hand experience of Microsoft’s next generation console have told us that although the next Xbox will be absolutely committed to online functionality, games will still be made available to purchase in physical form. Next Xbox games will be manufactured on 50GB-capacity Blu-ray discs, Microsoft having conceded defeat to Sony following its ill-fated backing of the HD-DVD format. It is believed that games purchased on disc will ship with activation codes, and will have no value beyond the initial user.

Our source has also confirmed that the next Xbox’s recently rumoured specs are entirely accurate. That means an AMD eight-core x64 1.6GHz CPU, a D3D11.x 800MHz graphics solution and 8GB of DDR3 RAM. As of now, the console’s hard drive capacity is said to be undecided, but Microsoft’s extended commitment to online delivery suggests that it will be the largest unit it has put inside a console to date.

Though the architectures of the next-gen Xbox and PlayStation both resemble that of PCs, several development sources have told us that Sony’s solution is preferable when it comes to leveraging power. Studios working with the next-gen Xbox are currently being forced to work with only approved development libraries, while Sony is encouraging coders to get closer to the metal of its box. Furthermore, the operating system overhead of Microsoft’s next console is more oppressive than Sony’s equivalent, giving the PlayStation-badged unit another advantage.

Unlike Nintendo, Microsoft is continuing to invest heavily in motion-control interfaces, and a new, more reliably responsive Kinect will also ship alongside the next Xbox. Sony’s next-generation console camera system is said to have a similar set of features, and is expected to be discussed at the company’s PlayStation event on February 20.

You can read more about how Sony’s next generation console compares in last week’s story, PlayStation 4 revealed.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/the-next-xbox-always-online-no-second-hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/

This really sounds worse and worse the more we hear.

Edit : Updated the title.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 12:47:43 AM by Maggot » Logged
TiLT
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 12:59:52 PM »

So, the PS4 has a (slightly) better graphics card, faster RAM, a free online component, plenty of exclusive game properties, a subscription service that gives users several free games every month, better access to the system's fundamentals for developers (which means more effective game engines, and thus faster games), tight integration with a handheld unit (the Vita), an earlier release than Microsoft's, and (if the rumors are true) a standard controller with an additional touch interface integrated into it.

What does the Xbox have? Kinect? Please!

If the rumors are accurate about these two consoles, and Microsoft continues their Xbox Live Gold bullshit, Sony is going to trounce them. It's too early to commit to any of the two right now since available information is limited, but anyone already declaring themselves for the new Xbox, based on what we know, suffers from a degree of blind brand loyalty I'll never understand.
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2013, 01:00:07 PM »

Hah. If that is true then Sony should send them a little thank you note for handing them next gen console victory.
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 01:37:55 PM »

It's not guaranteed. This is Sony, they still have the same leadership that caused the PS3 launch fiasco.

Also, if it's true that MS went no used games then Sony will do the same. However, considering how much I like Steam's method of an account full of games that I can just download whenever I want, I can deal with it.

Another aspect is that, well, Sony will likely start charging for PS Plus and to play online with the PS3 is MS continues to do that.

I'm actually okay with motion controls, but they have to integrated from the start and be very accurate and don't force developers to use them when the game isn't made for it. Something which no one has accomplished this generation. But considering all the advances in tech lately, it's certainly possible that we may see a pretty awesome renaissance of motion (and voice) controls into something that's more generally useful.
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 01:43:14 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on February 06, 2013, 01:37:55 PM

Another aspect is that, well, Sony will likely start charging for PS Plus and to play online with the PS3 is MS continues to do that.

Uhm, no. Absolutely not. Not a snowball's chance in hell. This isn't just me saying that. Analysts and insiders know that Microsoft's Gold memberships, while they may have been acceptable back when the 360 was launched, are way, WAY behind the times today. Sony has no reason to go the same route considering the public backlash they'd suffer, and especially considering the quality of PS Plus and the goodwill it has bought them already. Sony will never go the XBox Live Gold route, but there's a chance that Microsoft will remove their own subscriptions. I doubt it though. They're more likely to make an imitation of PS Plus than give up their revenue stream. It's one of many reasons why people should be skeptical of the new Xbox.
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 01:45:57 PM »

I can guarantee that Sony won't go download only. Sony already charges for PS+and they could charge for other online stuff but I don't think it will happen. In fact I don't think MS will go that route either because it would be suicide. I'm happy with the Steam model because it allows me to buy all my games for $9.99 or less. Have you seen the prices on the PS or MS store? No way will I be paying $54.99 for a game I can't even sell.
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 01:51:47 PM »

As for motion controls, Kinect showed a hell of a lot of promise when it was first announced.  Then they gimped it before release.  If this new version is way more accurate, then it could be quite useful.  It's just a question of whether the gaming crowd has moved on from it or not.  And whether I can sit down to use it.

There's also Microsoft's new Illumiroom room-animating technology.  It seems like it could just be a gimmick, but I have read that it's surprisingly immersive.

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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 01:53:46 PM »

XBOX Live Gold is popular and brings in a lot of money for MS...doesn't matter what SONY are doing,Microsoft are on a different strategy to SONY,that's all

why should MS battle with SONY when their own plans are working to make money?

and yeah the rumours a few weeks ago was that SONY are going the no used games route as well(not digital only,just no used games),i think it would just be better to not bother getting upset about any of this yet,until its all official

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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2013, 01:59:06 PM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on February 06, 2013, 01:53:46 PM

and yeah the rumours a few weeks ago was that SONY are going the no used games route as well(not digital only,just no used games),i think it would just be better to not bother getting upset about any of this yet,until its all official

Wasn't that just people yet again finding those patents for the no used game tech Sony made? Patents hardly means they are going to use it, but it would make sense if both MS and Sony made a deal about doing this, cause it would be suicide for one of them to do it alone.
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2013, 02:00:42 PM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on February 06, 2013, 01:53:46 PM

XBOX Live Gold is popular and brings in a lot of money for MS...doesn't matter what SONY are doing,Microsoft are on a different strategy to SONY,that's all

why should MS battle with SONY when their own plans are working to make money?

Microsoft's Gold memberships are working for the 360, and the 360 only, in the US (and pretty much only in the US, because other parts of the world have embraced the PS3 instead, which is why the latter has sold more than the former overall), but only as long as the Xbox dominates there. If someone wants to play Call of Duty multiplayer with their friends in the US today, chances are they'll be forced to get Xbox Live Gold to do so because that's where their friends are. If the PS4 is out before the new Xbox and is a better console as well, do you really think that strategy is going to keep working for MS? The status quo will get reset with the new generation. The "all my friends are on the 360 so I must be too" argument won't work for Microsoft the way things are shaping up. They need to offer something the competition doesn't, and the information we have indicates that they don't have that, and that it may even go the opposite way.

Quote
and yeah the rumours a few weeks ago was that SONY are going the no used games route as well(not digital only,just no used games),i think it would just be better to not bother getting upset about any of this yet,until its all official

That was about them testing/patenting the technology, something they have done before for other technologies they didn't end up using. There's a big difference between that and the rumor posted in the OP.
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2013, 02:12:59 PM »

Once again let me say: XBOX Live Gold is 3.xx per month.  There's no huge barrier to entry. The MP solution is elegant and effective and has always been better than any experience you can have on the PS or Nintendo consoles or (in most cases) PCs. Them charging for it is a non-factor and never will be.

Question: Can someone put this into English for me?  

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That means an AMD eight-core x64 1.6GHz CPU, a D3D11.x 800MHz graphics solution and 8GB of DDR3 RAM.

How big of an improvement is that over current hardware, will graphics be X times better? Processor speed Y times better?

How's that compare to mid level PCs right now?
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« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2013, 02:23:53 PM »

Quote from: ATB on February 06, 2013, 02:12:59 PM

The MP solution is elegant and effective and has always been better than any experience you can have on the PS or Nintendo consoles or (in most cases) PCs.

As I said, the status quo gets reset with the new generation. Microsoft's solutions no longer apply, nor do Sony's. Sony already showed, with the Vita, that they are able to add the things to the multiplayer side of the equation that people have been requesting (in that case, cross-game chat). It would be horribly naive to think they'll just copy the PS3's design and do it all over again, especially since they've clearly stated that the social aspect of the console is one of their most important focuses for the PS4. The most likely situation is that Microsoft's service won't be any better than what Sony can muster this time around, and for all we know it can go the other way. If you think this isn't going to be an important factor to those who choose their consoles in this new generation, then you've got a surprise coming.

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Question: Can someone put this into English for me?  

Quote
That means an AMD eight-core x64 1.6GHz CPU, a D3D11.x 800MHz graphics solution and 8GB of DDR3 RAM.

How big of an improvement is that over current hardware, will graphics be X times better? Processor speed Y times better?

How's that compare to mid level PCs right now?

I wouldn't try thinking like that right now. PC and console specs are rarely very comparable, though we've come closer to that with this new generation than ever before. The specs are similar to a somewhat respectable PC today, though the best ones are far above that. The difference is that consoles can avoid the other limitations PC game designers have to go through, which can lead to faster, better looking games. One other thing that complicates the situation is that PC games have been restricted by console games for a while (it's easier to port a console game to the PC than to make two different engines). It's hard to predict what's going to happen now that this situation stops applying (for a while).

Btw, in order for "the graphics are X times better" and similar comparisons to apply, you need to determine a baseline. Better than what? What's 1x?

The jump between the current generation and the next isn't going to be as big as people may expect in terms of graphical quality, but there are other things that are going to become dramatically better, mostly because of the increase in RAM. Expect much larger levels, more open worlds, more persistency (after GTA5, you've seen the last of cars disappearing and reappearing simply because you turned your head for a second) and more complex game mechanics and AI. The jump to this new generation will be more about features than about graphical fidelity, though the increase in resolution from sub-720p to true 1080p will be impressive enough.
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« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2013, 02:44:57 PM »

The best argument I have heard against all the "no used games next gen" rumors is that MS/Sony really can't afford to piss off Gamespot to that extent as they are the largest retailer of their software/hardware.  We aren't losing physical media in the next generation and the majority of sales will continue to come from physical media.  The numbers will certainly shrink over time, but we aren't there yet.  I would say the all digital/no used steam model is more likely going to happen in the gen after next (so 5 years down the road or so?)

I would also say the always online requirement isn't likely, as it immediately restricts your customer base.

Perhaps there are things they are putting in place at a hardware level so that they could turn something like this on in the future (spawning the rumors), but i really don't see that big of a change to the retail market happening this year.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 02:59:31 PM by Covenant » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2013, 02:57:30 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on February 06, 2013, 02:23:53 PM

Quote from: ATB on February 06, 2013, 02:12:59 PM

The MP solution is elegant and effective and has always been better than any experience you can have on the PS or Nintendo consoles or (in most cases) PCs.

As I said, the status quo gets reset with the new generation. Microsoft's solutions no longer apply, nor do Sony's. Sony already showed, with the Vita, that they are able to add the things to the multiplayer side of the equation that people have been requesting (in that case, cross-game chat). It would be horribly naive to think they'll just copy the PS3's design and do it all over again, especially since they've clearly stated that the social aspect of the console is one of their most important focuses for the PS4. The most likely situation is that Microsoft's service won't be any better than what Sony can muster this time around, and for all we know it can go the other way. If you think this isn't going to be an important factor to those who choose their consoles in this new generation, then you've got a surprise coming.

The sense of what your dollar is worth for gaming is also shifting a lot these days.  I can't resell my iOS or Steam games, but I can get iOS games for about $0-10 and Steam games for $1-20.  Paying $60 for a game I can't sell?  Not quite as palatable as it once was, especially since finding a deal on used games will no longer be an option.  

So (unless they really bring down game prices) I'll probably just buy fewer games.  This is fine, but it means that the cost of entry (the price of the system) will be even more daunting since I'll be using it less.  It also makes any monthly fees they throw at me even more unappealing.

In the end I'll go where the games are, I suppose, but if this new generation has even fewer platform exclusives than this one?  All else being equal, I'm just going to go for the platform that will be less costly to me.
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« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2013, 02:59:34 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on February 06, 2013, 02:57:30 PM

In the end I'll go where the games are, I suppose, but if this new generation has even fewer platform exclusives than this one?  All else being equal, I'm just going to go for the platform that will be less costly to me.

I think there'll be just as many first-part exclusives, but less exclusives due to technological limitations or challenges.
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« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2013, 03:00:15 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on February 06, 2013, 02:23:53 PM

As I said, the status quo gets reset with the new generation. Microsoft's solutions no longer apply, nor do Sony's. Sony already showed, with the Vita, that they are able to add the things to the multiplayer side of the equation that people have been requesting (in that case, cross-game chat). It would be horribly naive to think they'll just copy the PS3's design and do it all over again, especially since they've clearly stated that the social aspect of the console is one of their most important focuses for the PS4. The most likely situation is that Microsoft's service won't be any better than what Sony can muster this time around, and for all we know it can go the other way. If you think this isn't going to be an important factor to those who choose their consoles in this new generation, then you've got a surprise coming.


How well is the Vita selling? It's a nonfactor. Just like 'Home' was a non-factor.  If PS4 includes current 360 MP capability for free, then you may be on to something. I just don't see Sony solving that problem...even though they've had 7 years to work on it.  They never seem to do things just right.


Quote
The best argument I have heard against all the "no used games next gen" rumors is that MS/Sony really can't afford to piss off Gamespot to that extent as they are the largest retailer of their software/hardware.

If they cozy up to online retailers, they can circumvent Gamestop altogether. Brick and Mortar game stores are  a dying model.  It will only get exacerbated. Perhaps not in the very next gen but by PS5 and XboxNEXTNEXT I bet GS is largely removed from the equation.

Edit: Cov!
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« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2013, 03:15:34 PM »

Quote from: ATB on February 06, 2013, 03:00:15 PM

If they cozy up to online retailers, they can circumvent Gamestop altogether. Brick and Mortar game stores are  a dying model.  It will only get exacerbated. Perhaps not in the very next gen but by PS5 and XboxNEXTNEXT I bet GS is largely removed from the equation.

Agree completely.  Physical media and Gamestop are going away, but it's not happening this year.

Edit: ATB!!
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« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2013, 04:03:53 PM »

Quote from: ATB on February 06, 2013, 03:00:15 PM

How well is the Vita selling? It's a nonfactor. Just like 'Home' was a non-factor.

What does that have to do with anything? I agree it's a non-factor, simply because it has nothing to do with the argument I was making.

Quote
If PS4 includes current 360 MP capability for free, then you may be on to something. I just don't see Sony solving that problem...even though they've had 7 years to work on it.  They never seem to do things just right.

What MP capability might that be?

Sony has had 6 (not 7) years to work on the problems the PS3 has had, but there are certain limits to the PS3's base design that they can't get around (such as cross-game chat and game invites). New hardware lets them approach it from a different direction, and if the Vita is anything to go by (which it is), Sony is adding the things people felt were missing.

You're too locked in the mindset that the PS4 and new Xbox are going to be very similar to the current consoles. That's almost certainly not going to be the case. Both the new consoles will use a large amount of memory on their vastly improved OSes, which means there will be a lot going on. One thing that has been mentioned, and which is entirely impossible with the current gen, is how the PS4 will record the last 15 minutes of gameplay, no matter which game you're playing, allowing you to easily share the results with your friends online. Nobody expected anything like that, yet here it is! That's just a tiny morsel of the stuff that will be revealed on the 20th. The way we integrate with the Internet and mobile devices has changed enormously since the previous two consoles were released, and this alone will have a large effect on the new ones. The 360 started out being the best at MP due to the extra resources Microsoft could pour into it due to the Gold fee, but the PS3 has more or less caught up with the exception of cross-game chat. The only, and I do mean only, reason beyond cross-game chat that the 360's Gold fee continues to survive, is because so many Americans are invested in it. This investment evaporates once the new generation appears.
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« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2013, 04:04:51 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on February 06, 2013, 02:57:30 PM

The sense of what your dollar is worth for gaming is also shifting a lot these days.  I can't resell my iOS or Steam games, but I can get iOS games for about $0-10 and Steam games for $1-20.  Paying $60 for a game I can't sell?  Not quite as palatable as it once was, especially since finding a deal on used games will no longer be an option.  

It goes beyond that. As I've said before, MANY people that buy new games fund those purchases by trading in. If both the new-gen consoles take that away, it WILL impact new sales to some extent, particularly for non-"must-have" titles.

But let's read between the lines for a second. They say the discs will ship with an activation code and that the disk won't have value beyond the initial user. The second statement doesn't follow from the first *IF* it is possible to purchase more activation codes. This would be exactly what I have been suggesting for the last 3+ years: when GameStop resells a used disk, they could include an activation code in that purchase. That money would get funneled back to the developer/publisher after Microsoft took their cut. This would eat into Gamestop's profit margin a bit, but they will just drop trade values correspondingly. And they will gain market share in used for the next gen because other retailers in the secondary market won't be able to provide this.

GameStop becomes a money engine for developers. Every time a game disc gets sold again, they get a piece. A smaller piece than if purchased digitally? Yes, but they get a physical presence in stores in return, which is vital.

Now think about what would happen if one of MS/Sony had this and the other didn't. Rumor was that Sony was using some sort of technology that was on the disc itself that would tie the disc to a particular console (which sounds like a spectacularly bad idea, because, consoles never break...)
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« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2013, 04:55:36 PM »

I'll be out on the nextBox if it's 'always online'. I don't have access to highspeed for consoles at home right now and have opened and completed a couple brand new games on my 360 since I've been here in the last couple months. Rural area with shit connection means a no sale if that is needed.
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« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2013, 05:08:01 PM »

Has Microsoft just given up on the rest of the world? While I would guess that the majority of people with X-Boxes here in the US have broadband internet connections, I doubt that's the case in many other countries. I have no idea how accurate or up-to-date (maybe 2011?) the numbers are, but according to this site, only 34% of the world has broadband. Requiring the internet to be always on will cut off a big chunk of their potential market.
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« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2013, 05:15:37 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on February 06, 2013, 04:03:53 PM

Quote from: ATB on February 06, 2013, 03:00:15 PM

How well is the Vita selling? It's a nonfactor. Just like 'Home' was a non-factor.

What does that have to do with anything? I agree it's a non-factor, simply because it has nothing to do with the argument I was making.


My point being that these gimmicky add ons add nothing to their offering.

Quote
If PS4 includes current 360 MP capability for free, then you may be on to something. I just don't see Sony solving that problem...even though they've had 7 years to work on it.  They never seem to do things just right.

What MP capability might that be?

Sony has had 6 (not 7) years to work on the problems the PS3 has had, but there are certain limits to the PS3's base design that they can't get around (such as cross-game chat and game invites). New hardware lets them approach it from a different direction, and if the Vita is anything to go by (which it is), Sony is adding the things people felt were missing.

You're citing the Vita again.  It has had no impact on the market, will have no impact on the market, and these gimmicky cross (Sony) platform capabilities add nothing game (fafa!) changing to the gaming landscape.

Quote
You're too locked in the mindset that the PS4 and new Xbox are going to be very similar to the current consoles. That's almost certainly not going to be the case. Both the new consoles will use a large amount of memory on their vastly improved OSes, which means there will be a lot going on. One thing that has been mentioned, and which is entirely impossible with the current gen, is how the PS4 will record the last 15 minutes of gameplay, no matter which game you're playing, allowing you to easily share the results with your friends online.

This is great, but I'm not really sure what we're 'arguing' at this point. You seemed to say that if MS tries to charge for their gold service Sony would have a leg up. I said, no they won't and that the 'features people are asking for' that sony has added are ones that no wants or needs (vita, home, etc) or still haven't caught up with current 360 capabilities.  And I don't think the next generation is going to be the enormous leap that you're citing.  I could be wrong, but I just don't see it.

Quote
That's just a tiny morsel of the stuff that will be revealed on the 20th. The way we integrate with the Internet and mobile devices has changed enormously since the previous two consoles were released, and this alone will have a large effect on the new ones.

I agree with you completely.

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The 360 started out

Still is and it's not even close.

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being the best at MP due to the extra resources Microsoft could pour into it due to the Gold fee, but the PS3 has more or less caught up with the exception of cross-game chat.

I disagree. Playing MP on the PS3 is still clumsy and muddled compared to the 360 interface.

Quote
The only, and I do mean only, reason beyond cross-game chat that the 360's Gold fee continues to survive, is because so many Americans are invested in it. This investment evaporates once the new generation appears.

We'll agree to disagree. I'd say they're conditioned to expect to pay for it and will do so again willingly.  UNLESS, Sony does the same or better for free. Then there will be pressure. But I have no faith that Sony will.
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« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2013, 05:39:14 PM »

I won't make a decision until the info comes from an official source (until it does I treat rumors for both systems as deranged fanboy ravings), but if it plays blu rays I could ditch the blu ray player...
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« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2013, 06:47:43 PM »

Damn ATB, could you at least have tried to answer the one, single question of importance I asked you? You're arguing by using conclusions without backing them up with facts. Here's the question again, in case you forgot:

Quote from: TiLT
What MP capability might that be?

You're saying that the 360's MP capabilities is better, but so far you haven't mentioned even a single thing that makes it so, which makes your argument worthless. I'm willing to listen, but you've at least got to make some effort to present an actual argument.

Quote from: ATB on February 06, 2013, 05:15:37 PM

You're citing the Vita again.  It has had no impact on the market, will have no impact on the market, and these gimmicky cross (Sony) platform capabilities add nothing game (fafa!) changing to the gaming landscape.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? What did I say that in any way, shape or form indicated that the Vita's popularity had anything to do with my argument? I said only one thing about the Vita: It being new hardware, Sony used the opportunity to implement much-wanted MP features that they couldn't implement on the PS3 because of hardware limitations. You using the Vita's popularity as a response to that is mind-boggling at best. Even if nobody bought the damn thing, Sony still implemented the features!

Quote
Still is and it's not even close.

Feel like backing that up with facts? Not saying I won't agree with you, but as someone who boots up my 360 about twice a year, I don't know what it supposedly does better, and you're not helping me understand. From people who use both consoles regularly, I've been told that the PS3 is now, apart from the lack of cross-game chat and a somewhat clumsy, inbuilt invite system, at the same level. Prove them wrong!

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I disagree. Playing MP on the PS3 is still clumsy and muddled compared to the 360 interface.


I hope that's not the "fact" I'm asking for.  
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« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2013, 06:56:18 PM »

It's been a long time since I've attempted multiplayer on the PS3, but for me it's all the little things that made it inferior to XBL.  Just about every single thing was just... more difficult to do.  Anything from adding friends, seeing if friends are on, meeting up with friends, switching games to one your friend is playing, sending messages, seeing that you have pending messages, initiating voice chat...

If they've improved things in the past couple years, though, my impressions are dated.
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« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2013, 07:00:06 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on February 06, 2013, 06:56:18 PM

It's been a long time since I've attempted multiplayer on the PS3, but for me it's all the little things that made it inferior to XBL.  Just about every single thing was just... more difficult to do.  Anything from adding friends, seeing if friends are on, meeting up with friends, switching games to one your friend is playing, sending messages, seeing that you have pending messages, initiating voice chat...

If they've improved things in the past couple years, though, my impressions are dated.

I have the same experience, but I find it incredibly hard to believe that by the time the next consoles come out, Sony would not have been able to directly copy (or perhaps better) the XBL user experience.  It's not rocket science.
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« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2013, 07:15:43 PM »

I think Console exclusives need to go the way of the do-do, but I that's just my opinion
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« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2013, 07:25:34 PM »

I'm pretty sure you and I just don't have the ability to communicate to each other TiLT.
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« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2013, 08:13:28 PM »

Quote from: ATB on February 06, 2013, 07:25:34 PM

I'm pretty sure you and I just don't have the ability to communicate to each other TiLT.

So, does that mean you aren't actually going to answer my question? I'm trying to understand here, but you're not letting me. You can't just jump into a discussion and blurt out opinions as if they were fact without backing them up with, you know, facts, and in this case I think you actually can back up your statement since you seem to have a strong opinion about the matter. Communication requires that both sides speak, and that both sides listen. If one side refuses to either speak or listen, it's no longer communication. That's monologue. Don't blame me for the breakdown in communication.
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« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2013, 08:17:04 PM »

I'm guessing ATB's negative experiences with PS3 multiplayer are probably at least similar to the ones I listed above, and which gellar agreed mirrored his own.
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« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2013, 08:29:06 PM »

Quote from: Soulchilde on February 06, 2013, 07:15:43 PM

I think Console exclusives need to go the way of the do-do, but I that's just my opinion

Yeah, ideally there wouldn't be any. Too bad that ideal is impossible though. Console manufacturers want to maximize profit and their market share, and to do that they need incentive. With so small differences between consoles, it comes down to either having the best games, or being the market leader in a way that makes you the obvious purchase. We've been through an interesting console generation (at least in the American market) in that Sony has had the best games, particularly in the last half of the generation, while Microsoft has had the self-fulfilling market lead. I'm inclined to think that this generation was unique in that regard, and that the coming one will have a clearer winner.

My biggest wish is that the console developers at least do their exclusives the right way: By funding the development of original IPs that makes their platform stand out. The wrong way would be to wait until development of a game is more or less done, then jump in and pay a large sum for exclusivity, either temporary or permanent. I believe the first approach strengthens the game industry while the other one weakens it. Since Sony has mostly been doing the former, while Microsoft has mostly been doing the latter (Xbox Live Indie Games notwithstanding, an initiative that I will always respect Microsoft for going through with, even if their heart wasn't into it), I can't help but respect Sony more, and thus they are the ones I'm the most willing to support in case the differences between the consoles are small.

I actually started out this generation hoping that Microsoft would completely pulverize Sony due to the latter's incredibly arrogance during the console launch. Then the exclusivity thing mentioned above happened, with Sony helping to fund and publish games that Microsoft would never have touched, games like Heavy Rain, Little Big Planet and Demon's Souls. I gradually came to respect and then love what Sony was doing, while I resented Microsoft's continuous focus on first- and third-person shooters and their willingness to "bribe" studios with money to keep games away from the PS3 for a period of time. If I come across as a PS3 fanboy, this is the reason why. I actually own every single console (not hardware revisions!), both stationary and handheld, that has been released since the Game Boy Advance, with the sole exception of the Wii U, so it's not like I'm overly invested in any one of them. Tongue
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« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2013, 08:30:24 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on February 06, 2013, 08:17:04 PM

I'm guessing ATB's negative experiences with PS3 multiplayer are probably at least similar to the ones I listed above, and which gellar agreed mirrored his own.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, and I appreciate the answer you gave me. The thing is, the people I've heard talking about this (and I'll be damned if I can remember who they were) said that the PS3 only recently had become as good as the 360 on the MP front.
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« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2013, 09:03:20 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on February 06, 2013, 08:13:28 PM

Quote from: ATB on February 06, 2013, 07:25:34 PM

I'm pretty sure you and I just don't have the ability to communicate to each other TiLT.

So, does that mean you aren't actually going to answer my question? I'm trying to understand here, but you're not letting me. You can't just jump into a discussion and blurt out opinions as if they were fact without backing them up with, you know, facts, and in this case I think you actually can back up your statement since you seem to have a strong opinion about the matter. Communication requires that both sides speak, and that both sides listen. If one side refuses to either speak or listen, it's no longer communication. That's monologue. Don't blame me for the breakdown in communication.

You don't need to take everything so personally.  Nor be accusatory. Your constant belittling makes me want to disengage from you altogether.  This is a dialogue, not an argument. I never stated my opinion as anything other than such and you should realize that not everything comes down to empiric details. The PS line is not your family member so there's no need to discuss it so passionately or devolve into fanboyism.  We did this dance in the xcom thread.

Other posters in this thread have answered your question. I will say that my experience mirrors them and the myriad data (opinion?)  on the topic found on the webz.  Whether that's fact or not enough for your paradigms  is irrelevant to me.  You presenting 'people you've heard talking' does not qualify as fact either, by the way. Therefore your confusing definition of what a 'fact' is cannot  be satisfied and I'm not feeling compelled to try.

Online on 360 > PS3.  My contention is that paying for that > at a price of 3.00 per month is not going to be a competitive differentiator for Sony.  Nor will the fact that they're implementing features that nobody asked for vis a vis cross platform chat with Vita and Home.



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« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2013, 09:07:01 PM »

Quote from: gellar on February 06, 2013, 07:00:06 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on February 06, 2013, 06:56:18 PM

It's been a long time since I've attempted multiplayer on the PS3, but for me it's all the little things that made it inferior to XBL.  Just about every single thing was just... more difficult to do.  Anything from adding friends, seeing if friends are on, meeting up with friends, switching games to one your friend is playing, sending messages, seeing that you have pending messages, initiating voice chat...

If they've improved things in the past couple years, though, my impressions are dated.

I have the same experience, but I find it incredibly hard to believe that by the time the next consoles come out, Sony would not have been able to directly copy (or perhaps better) the XBL user experience.  It's not rocket science.

Heh, you'd think so but just look at the WiiU's new online experience.  slywink  It did some good things but still isn't near XBL in most regards.
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« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2013, 09:12:54 PM »

I checked out the sales MSFT had at Christmas, and I was impressed ( there's a thread around). The points crap has got to go away, or tie directly to the value of the dollar. (eg: In the US 100pts = 1.25, in Canada it's 1.55, though we've never been more than 4 cents higher or lower (IIRC) in the past 7 years).

Frankly, I like the 360 controller, I love the things that work about Kinect, and I'm hoping Illumiroom or whatever it's called works well and comes with the new system.

I can't afford two systems this time around (I have Wii, PS3 and 360) and though I have some friends who are PS3 exclusive, I have more 360 exclusive friends. I also have way more DLC and Arcade games on the 360, and if backwards compatibility is in the works, I could see myself going for the 360 upgrade with a wait-and-see for the PS4.

The important thing for me is, which one brings me something more?

The 360^2 supposedly has BD (which I use infrequently anyways), is rumoured to support more codecs, ties into my live interface and offers a potentially significant upgrade to the Kinect system (the original supposedly could read lips, digit motion etc).

Cross-platform support being equal (timed exclusives ... meh), why would I go for the one that is perhaps slightly faster, or easier to program for? Faster didn't help PS3 in the past half-decade, and they went from being the king of consoles with PS2 to the 3rd place (when one excludes Japan - a flailing market for Xbox) ... and the PS3 had the "BluRay Player" thing going to boost its sales besides. Counterpoint : the 360 hasn't dominated either, though it was touted as being easier to program for - in the end most game mfgrs made console games for both regardless.

I realize the statement above may beg the question with exclusing Japan's numbers, but the point is that we're gamers, and speaking English. To speak to what my hobby is, including japanese or other-functions of the console is a bit of a misnomer as their non-english games and cultural differences don't impact my marketplace.
 
One could also include the Wii in that - but after all the hype and the waggle controls, there's about six games I have any interest in playing on the system, and they generally don't use the waggle controls anyways. (eg: New SMB Wii)

Does my Live account cost me? Yes. Should it? Well, maybe yes, maybe no. If it's going towards providing a stable, managed and monitored service? S'cool. There are some benefits too (some premium channels available).

I'm not interested in frothing at the mouth for either system, and frankly all of this info is speculation and hearsay.

Some interesting statements above:

Quote
several development sources have told us that Sony’s solution is preferable when it comes to leveraging power.

This information is crap. You could go to any developer, and unless you know their slant and history, the info is entirely unreliable.

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although the next Xbox will be absolutely committed to online functionality, games will still be made available to purchase in physical form.


This doesn't exclude the idea of used games. Right now, used games are gimped (if their online codes have been used). How that translates into the next-gen is yet to be seen, which brings me to ...

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Microsoft’s next console will require an Internet connection in order to function, ruling out a second-hand game market for the platform.


... how the f*** they can draw this conclusion. Even IF you *need* a connection to install/run a game, and even IF you need your own license to play the game (no longer a *free* license based on purchase alone), there is already a system in place to allow gamers to recycle old games, and the companies (dev, pub, MSFT) get a cut of the new gamers license.

Why they assume they'd throw that away is beyond me - the statement is being made to drive up readership. It's sensationalism at it's best, since the existing license model already tears that statement a new one.

Lastly - you think a 720 *needs* a connection to fire up? I doubt there is no off-line mode. Features and functions may be disabled due to no connectivity (access to the web browser, for instance... duh Tongue) but I can't see them cutting off the market of people who don't have internet connectivity. It's not worth it and they'd be shooting themselves in the foot.

I could see them getting rid of "network play" without Live authentication (even silver) so that it makes piracy harder, but that is different again from what the article states.


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« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2013, 10:21:58 PM »

Quote from: Soulchilde on February 06, 2013, 07:15:43 PM

I think Console exclusives need to go the way of the do-do, but I that's just my opinion

I was just going to say that we will probably see this more.  All of the rumoured specs point to systems with similar hardware and similar features.  I don't think either one will try to one up the other and go with a system that costs more money.  The only thing differentiating the two will be first party and exclusive titles and what platform your friends are going to buy.

As to the online activation thing.  That's what STEAM already does, so I think both microsoft and sony are looking closely at that model and saying to themselves, we can do that too.
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« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2013, 11:33:00 PM »

I'm not sure how the PS3 Multiplayer is as I rarely use it. What I do know is that with PS+ I've gotten so many free games that I don't even need to buy new games for the console anymore.
One thing I'm wondering, if MS rules out used games could that mean that Sony would also have to? At first I was thinking that MS' move was total suicide but what if developers refused to even make games for the next Sony console because of that? MS certainly wouldn't be at a disadvantage then.
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« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2013, 02:11:27 AM »

I'm much more interested in the quality of gameplay. Games have become stagnant and repetitious, with new titles emulating whatever is popular. If the next console is going to be more Assassin's Creed and CoD then it doesn't matter to me what the specs are or whether or not it requires an online connection, I'll be opting out.

I use gaming as a way of getting away from my life for a moment. If the games themselves don't start improving then I will find my escapism elsewhere.
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« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2013, 02:34:34 AM »

Quote from: WorkingMike on February 07, 2013, 02:11:27 AM

I'm much more interested in the quality of gameplay. Games have become stagnant and repetitious, with new titles emulating whatever is popular. If the next console is going to be more Assassin's Creed and CoD then it doesn't matter to me what the specs are or whether or not it requires an online connection, I'll be opting out.

I use gaming as a way of getting away from my life for a moment. If the games themselves don't start improving then I will find my escapism elsewhere.

Have you checked out what's going on with indie PC and iOS titles lately?
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« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2013, 04:39:41 AM »

My own mp player experience with the PS3 is that it sucks nothing but lag I have no faith that Sony will get their act together with the PS4 you gotta show me to make me a believer.
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