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Author Topic: Xbox One Discussion  (Read 76916 times)
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« Reply #3120 on: March 08, 2014, 12:49:52 AM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on March 07, 2014, 11:58:55 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on March 07, 2014, 09:41:23 PM

It's not like not having Xbox Live is going to prevent you from being the target of political ads from every other media stream you consume.


I have never encountered a political ad arriving through PSN, Steam, Origin, uPlay, Stardock, or GoG.  Until that changes, deciding not to have XBox Live will at least prevent me from being the target of political ads while I'm gaming.

-Autistic Angel

With the number of ads that are on Xbox Live I'm amazed they actually still charge for Gold. My 360 is collecting dust because I refuse to pay for Live at this point. If I could use it to play Netflix and Amazon it would get daily use.

Also, come election time I refuse to watch live TV, games are an escape, god forbid the countless political adds invade that space.
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« Reply #3121 on: March 08, 2014, 01:59:13 AM »

Removed my previous post because I'm not going to engage in more console war shenanigans.

Back on topic, I'm not saying I applaud political ads on Xbox Live. I'm saying it's common practice, and condemning one corporation (out of many) for doing it is a tad disingenuous. Political micro-targeting of ads is hot business right now, particularly in an election year, and where there's money to be made businesses are going to jump on it. Unless you are somehow off the grid, advertisers know exactly who you are and what you're doing, and from that can tell with scarily good accuracy where your political leanings lie.

Would I prefer Xbox Live to have NO ads, political or otherwise? Absolutely. But I'm also realistic enough to know that where there's money to be made on the information market, businesses are going to go after those dollars.


 
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« Reply #3122 on: March 08, 2014, 04:36:45 AM »

I wonder what games Republicans play vs Democrats.
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« Reply #3123 on: March 08, 2014, 05:07:45 AM »

March 20th is going to be very interesting. MS has all but confirmed XB1 will support DX12. Could this be the great equalizer in the graphics battle? Sony fanboys are tripping all over themselves to downplay the news, but this could be huge.
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« Reply #3124 on: March 08, 2014, 09:35:49 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing on March 08, 2014, 01:59:13 AM

Back on topic, I'm not saying I applaud political ads on Xbox Live. I'm saying it's common practice, and condemning one corporation (out of many) for doing it is a tad disingenuous.

That's not really the problem here though. We're all aware that when we use a "free" service like Facebook, we ourselves are the products being sold. That comes with the territory. There's always been a kind of unwritten gentleman's rule however, that whenever you pay for a product with actual money, the company you buy that product from should severely limit, or even eliminate, its use of you as a product to sell.

No other gaming machine that I'm aware of sells personal data about its customers. Microsoft makes you purchase hardware (the most expensive console on the market, to boot), purchase a subscription to make the thing worth using (going so far as to make artificial pay walls that its competitors do not have), and then have the gall to still sell out its customers.

It's fine that you're okay with this practice. That's your own choice, and you're free to take it. However, you shouldn't call others disingenuous for reacting to the way Microsoft does it, for they take the practice above and beyond what other companies do, and in a very negative way. I would react to any company that did these things, no matter who they were. There's probably others out there, but I actually can't think of any off the top of my head. Then again, this might be a more common practice in America than what I'm used to over here.
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« Reply #3125 on: March 08, 2014, 09:46:13 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing on March 08, 2014, 05:07:45 AM

March 20th is going to be very interesting. MS has all but confirmed XB1 will support DX12. Could this be the great equalizer in the graphics battle? Sony fanboys are tripping all over themselves to downplay the news, but this could be huge.

It'll most likely make absolutely no difference to the customers, but it's certainly going to be of great interest to developers. Do you happen to know what the major new features are? I haven't read up on it yet.

I don't think this will make any kind of difference in the "console war" though. DirectX 10 was meant to bring people over to Windows Vista, DirectX 11 would bring them to Windows 7, and DirectX 11.2 was supposed to bring them to Windows 8 and Xbox One. None of them had the intended effect. To this day, games still use DirectX 9 as a standard, with a few games adding some minor DirectX 11 features as an option. Most gamers can't tell you even one feature that separates any of the mentioned versions from each other. Hell, I'm not sure even I can, beyond things that matter to a developer.

I remember being heavily invested in graphics programming for DirectX at the time DX10 was announced, and got really excited about it. The features added would mean squat to gamers (managed video RAM comes to mind), but would make the act of programming for DirectX more enjoyable for the developers. That's the thing I've been trying to tell regular gamers, who were talking about new DirectX versions, for many years (and it has nothing to do with the Xbox brand): New DirectX versions will have next to no impact for them. That's how it has been ever since the last real update for gamers arrived: DirectX 9.

Edit: With that said, I do believe that DirectX 9's time has finally passed with the release of this new generation of consoles. We're going to see more games requiring DX11 from this year. We might see one or two games requiring DX12 if Microsoft wants to promote a new platform with it, but I can't really see the advantage in doing that this time. They've done that before, but it has always been restricted to those one or two games, and always to promote a new version of Windows.

Edit 2: I just checked out what little information exists about DX12. Sounds like it's mostly just an update that gives developers the ability to bypass the drivers (as in the old DOS days) and talk directly to the hardware. That's going to be neat for PC games, but it won't do much for consoles. Both the PS4 and Xbox One can already do this, though rumors have suggested that the PS4 has more options in this area for now. DX12 might be an equalizer in that regard. In practical terms, this feature won't be used much outside of consoles anyway, as it quickly becomes hideously expensive to develop for.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 10:56:29 AM by TiLT » Logged
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« Reply #3126 on: March 08, 2014, 12:39:03 PM »

Quote from: Canuck on March 08, 2014, 04:36:45 AM

I wonder what games Republicans play vs Democrats.


I'd be very interested in this too.  It's easy to imagine how descriptive television viewing habits would be -- CBN vs. Logo TV, for example. 

I don't know how you'd discern political ideologies from mainstream gaming habits, though.  Beyond Good & Evil and the original Mass Effect were unapologetic allegories about September 11th, 2001 and the resulting military conflicts, but although they came from opposite ends of the political spectrum, I wouldn't be able to identify any ideological divides among the players who loved them.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #3127 on: March 08, 2014, 02:10:58 PM »

Off the topic of adds and DX12, has anyone been using the fitness programs? Specifically P90X and Sean Ts, and if so does it add anything over their standard DVDs? I have P90X1 but I was thinking about buying Sean Ts, which will run me about $150. Are these workouts still free if you have Gold and if so are they going to remain free or do you need a separate subscription? Also is it worth buying the Xbone just for this function (assuming you work out enough to use it, which I do)? I already have the PS4 and a good PC and to be honest the Xbone doesn't offer enough exclusive games to make me interested in the console for exclusives alone.

So can I justify spending $500, plus $50 for Gold in order to gain all the workout programs? Also what workout programs are on there?
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« Reply #3128 on: March 08, 2014, 02:30:12 PM »

I've been using them sporadically - I hope to get more consistent with it, as they are a lot of fun.

The free workouts are pretty limited, to be honest. It's more like a bunch of demos for various workout programs - typically one 10-30 minute workout of a 4 or 6 week program. There is a decent variety, but don't go in expecting a huge library of complete workouts. The Sean T and P90x are the most hardcore of the bunch, with the rest falling in the Jillian Michaels arena.

Does it offer something over traditional DVDs? In my opinion, definitely. The Kinect gives you constant feedback on how you're doing. It's not as precise in terms of proper form as a dedicated exercise game, but it's very good at tracking your intensity and making sure you're using the proper muscle groups. You also see the time remaining in each set which can help motivate you to complete. In addition, you're being scored and every now and then you'll see your current score compared to the average in your age group among Xbox Fitness users. This can be a real motivation to pick up the pace, as you'll earn badges and achievements for accomplishing different goals.

Honestly I can't recommend buying an Xbox One solely for the Fitness function. It's a tremendous value-add for current owners, but I don't think the "free" workouts available are anywhere close to worth $500. Still, my wife and I are having a good time with it, and they WILL get you sweating.

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« Reply #3129 on: March 08, 2014, 02:53:41 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on March 08, 2014, 09:35:49 AM


There's always been a kind of unwritten gentleman's rule however, that whenever you pay for a product with actual money, the company you buy that product from should severely limit, or even eliminate, its use of you as a product to sell.


I wish this were true, but I pay for a TV service and am given tons of ads.  I pay for a magazine and am given tons of ads.  I used to get all riled up about ads on the 360, but then remembered that they're not the only place that gives me ads when I pay for it.
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« Reply #3130 on: March 08, 2014, 03:58:31 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on March 08, 2014, 09:35:49 AM

Quote from: YellowKing on March 08, 2014, 01:59:13 AM

Back on topic, I'm not saying I applaud political ads on Xbox Live. I'm saying it's common practice, and condemning one corporation (out of many) for doing it is a tad disingenuous.

That's not really the problem here though. We're all aware that when we use a "free" service like Facebook, we ourselves are the products being sold. That comes with the territory. There's always been a kind of unwritten gentleman's rule however, that whenever you pay for a product with actual money, the company you buy that product from should severely limit, or even eliminate, its use of you as a product to sell.

No other gaming machine that I'm aware of sells personal data about its customers. Microsoft makes you purchase hardware (the most expensive console on the market, to boot), purchase a subscription to make the thing worth using (going so far as to make artificial pay walls that its competitors do not have), and then have the gall to still sell out its customers.

It's fine that you're okay with this practice. That's your own choice, and you're free to take it. However, you shouldn't call others disingenuous for reacting to the way Microsoft does it, for they take the practice above and beyond what other companies do, and in a very negative way. I would react to any company that did these things, no matter who they were. There's probably others out there, but I actually can't think of any off the top of my head. Then again, this might be a more common practice in America than what I'm used to over here.

While I agree with what you're saying at the end (and will add that what Microsoft is doing is the equivalent of getting ads in a paid app game but on a larger scale), you're nuts if you don't think these other "gentlemanly" companies are using your information in a major way.  They just do it in a way that's like the various Direct Xs: in a way that's not noticeable to the consumer.
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« Reply #3131 on: March 08, 2014, 04:31:09 PM »

It's speculated that the XB1 hardware was built from the ground up with DX12 in mind. If that's true, then I disagree that the customer would see no benefit from DX12 implementation on XB1.

Right now we just don't have enough information to know for sure - we'll have to wait for March 20th for that.
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« Reply #3132 on: March 08, 2014, 06:23:52 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on March 08, 2014, 04:31:09 PM

It's speculated that the XB1 hardware was built from the ground up with DX12 in mind.

It would pretty much have to be. The hardware has to support this kind of thing, which is why you don't see graphics cards getting driver updates that suddenly make them support new versions of DirectX. You can chalk this up to "fact" instead of speculation. smile

I'm curious though... What kind of benefit are you expecting the users to see here? I think there's a lot of misconceptions out there about what DirectX actually is. Fundamentally, it's merely a software development library meant to facilitate communication between Windows applications and the hardware that tends to be used for games. Over time, almost every part of DirectX has become obsoleted with the exception of Direct3D, which is pretty much what we're talking about right now. That library's purpose is to allow the programmer to talk effectively to the graphics card.

A little bit of history first: Back in the DOS days, games had to be specifically programmed to support all the different types of hardware out there. Standards weren't really a thing back then. This is why you always had to go through a setup application where you had to choose a variety of settings, including your sound card and its port usage. Then Windows 95 came along and Microsoft decided to make a serious effort to have gamers take it seriously as an operating system. The problem with Windows up to that point was that the OS layer stood in the way of direct communication between applications and the hardware, leaving Windows applications considerably slower than their DOS counterparts. DirectX solved that (though it took a few years before it became truly effective, both as a programmer-friendly library and as a resource friendly part of games) by opening up a "shortcut" between the two. It also provided a standard method of communication between hardware and software, letting the software developers bother with other things than hardware compatibility. The hardware developers, on the other hand, merely had to make their graphics cards work with Direct3D to know that they would also work with games. It was a great solution for everyone, one that has held until this day.

Fast forward to Direct3D 9 and Xbox 360. Microsoft wisely chose to use a special version of Direct3D for Xbox 360 development. It's not exactly the same, but it's close enough that a Windows programmer with experience in Direct3D would be able to jump right in without any major problems. Those who played games on the 360 benefited greatly from this, not because Direct3D opened up the capabilities of the console in any way that previous software solutions wouldn't have been able to, but because the barrier of entry for developers was much lower, leading to faster development and less bugs. This gave Microsoft a considerable advantage over Sony's archaic and developer-hostile proprietary SDK for the PS3.

There have been 2 major revisions of Direct3D since then, soon to be 3 with the release of DirectX 12 (which you shouldn't expect for another 1 1/2 years or so). The thing is, these revisions are only major for developers. They offer better solutions to development problems. There are new, fancy ways of programming shaders, better ways to manage RAM, and so on. Almost none of these, with a scant few exceptions (like tessellation, which few are aware even exists, and fewer still know what means), are things gamers would ever notice. At best, new versions of Direct3D open up ways for developers to program things in a way that will make them run on current hardware, where previous solutions were too ineffective. This wasn't always the case, but Direct3D has been a mature library since version 9, with few other avenues open to it. This is why a few games allow you to enable a DirectX 10 or 11 modus that adds one or two extra graphical features that would be too GPU intensive for earlier versions.

From what has been said about DirectX 12 so far, its biggest feature is its ability to bypass the driver layer in many situations, allowing deft and patient programmers to optimize games to a degree that was previously impossible, at least since the days of DOS. This is great for PC games (except "nobody" will use it, for the same reason "nobody" uses DirectX 10 or 11), and pretty much useless for consoles.

There was one part of the heated discussions last fall that was glossed over by the media because it got too technical for most people to really understand. It had to do with the PS4 and the Xbox One, and their ability to allow developers to program directly for the hardware without any drivers getting in the way. The PS4 got support for this very early on according to developers who spoke about it, while the Xbox One lacked most of this functionality for a long time. Then came Microsoft's infamous "write to the metal" press release, which was their way of telling the world that they had now fixed this problem while making it look, at least to the technically unaware, like the PS4 lacked the same ability. I haven't really heard much about it since then, which tells me that their solution was probably adequate.

The issue with this and DirectX12 is that the problem DX12 claims to solve (talk directly to the hardware) is a problem the PS4 and the Xbox One don't have. They already allow the programmers to bypass the drivers and the OS to deal directly with the hardware at the bottom. This is why I think DX12 won't make one bit of a difference to consoles, which again means it won't make one bit of a difference to PCs either (they follow the standards set by the consoles). Unless there's some dramatic new functionality yet to be revealed, and based on earlier revisions of DirectX I really doubt it, this is not going to matter to gamers on any platform.

This turned into a pretty long post, but I think it had to be to allow me to make it clear that this isn't an opinion I hold because of any stake in the so-called battle between the PS4 and the Xbox One. This is an opinion I have held since before either of them were announced. The importance of DirectX revisions is vastly overestimated among gamers who don't understand the technology.
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« Reply #3133 on: March 09, 2014, 12:55:19 AM »

Very interesting post. Thanks for that.
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« Reply #3134 on: March 09, 2014, 12:55:57 AM »

Quote from: Scraper on March 08, 2014, 02:10:58 PM

Off the topic of adds and DX12, has anyone been using the fitness programs? Specifically P90X and Sean Ts, and if so does it add anything over their standard DVDs? I have P90X1 but I was thinking about buying Sean Ts, which will run me about $150. Are these workouts still free if you have Gold and if so are they going to remain free or do you need a separate subscription? Also is it worth buying the Xbone just for this function (assuming you work out enough to use it, which I do)? I already have the PS4 and a good PC and to be honest the Xbone doesn't offer enough exclusive games to make me interested in the console for exclusives alone.

So can I justify spending $500, plus $50 for Gold in order to gain all the workout programs? Also what workout programs are on there?

I was under the impression that Xbox Fitness was going to be totally free for a while (with a Gold subscription), but there are only a handful of titles from each series that are free.  If you want the full Sean T Insanity workout, you're going to have to pony up a bunch of money to get all the episodes unlocked.

As for the program itself, I think the only thing you lose compared to the DVDs is that the video is displayed a little smaller and a little lower quality.  The Kinect stuff really adds to it, though.  Sometimes I'll be doing an exercise perfectly and it won't think I am, but it almost always tracks me correctly.  It's gratifying to hear "try moving your arms more!" and then do it, and then get praise for it.  The 'gamification' of the workouts also adds a lot.  Even if I'm completely exhausted, any time the workout pops up a little challenge to beat my age demographic's average performance on an exercise, I can't help but go all out to try and beat the challenge.

I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but the Kinect heartrate monitor really does work.  I did exercises with a chest strap heartrate monitor and the Kinect was within a few BPM of it every time--it's pretty creepy/magical.  I just wish the game had a constant display of your heartrate instead of just showing it a handful of times a session.
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« Reply #3135 on: March 09, 2014, 04:01:36 AM »

Quote from: Canuck on March 09, 2014, 12:55:19 AM

Very interesting post. Thanks for that.

Agreed! Thanks for the write up, TiLT!
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« Reply #3136 on: March 09, 2014, 06:22:53 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on March 08, 2014, 06:23:52 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on March 08, 2014, 04:31:09 PM

It's speculated that the XB1 hardware was built from the ground up with DX12 in mind.

<Couple sentences in support of point>

followed by

< EIGHT paragraphs of text letting all Bone users know how it's not going to help them>



If you don't want to be seen as a participant of the console war, stop being a champion warrior of one side even to the extent of coming into the thread of the console YOU DON'T OWN and posting an 8 paragraph essay about it.    

I'm sure this post will be replied to with:

Quote

OMGz I'm a victim and the only European highly skilled programmer and thus the only true authority to speak on these matters TOTALLY neutral party who is being picked on by the TRUE console war brutes!   See?  I've even tried to extend the olive branch in a couple threads but the others are not civilized enough to take my crap...err... I mean come to the table....


Did I cover everything?

Edit to add:  Oh right.  I forgot the couple of fellow-PS4 non-Xbox One owners that come in after you to pat you on the back.   How could I allow such an oversight?
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« Reply #3137 on: March 09, 2014, 06:39:23 PM »

Quote from: msduncan on March 09, 2014, 06:22:53 PM

Quote from: TiLT on March 08, 2014, 06:23:52 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on March 08, 2014, 04:31:09 PM

It's speculated that the XB1 hardware was built from the ground up with DX12 in mind.

<Couple sentences in support of point>

followed by

< EIGHT paragraphs of text letting all Bone users know how it's not going to help them>



If you don't want to be seen as a participant of the console war, stop being a champion warrior of one side even to the extent of coming into the thread of the console YOU DON'T OWN and posting an 8 paragraph essay about it.    

I'm sure this post will be replied to with:

Quote

OMGz I'm a victim and the only European highly skilled programmer and thus the only true authority to speak on these matters TOTALLY neutral party who is being picked on by the TRUE console war brutes!   See?  I've even tried to extend the olive branch in a couple threads but the others are not civilized enough to take my crap...err... I mean come to the table....


Did I cover everything?

Edit to add:  Oh right.  I forgot the couple of fellow-PS4 non-Xbox One owners that come in after you to pat you on the back.   How could I allow such an oversight?

Cranky much? Did you even bother to read his post? He didn't rip on the bone at all, instead he talked about how DX12 really wouldn't help the Bone or the PS4 at all. Whether or not he's right is one thing, but I hardly see how his "8 paragraphs" is fanning the flame war.
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« Reply #3138 on: March 09, 2014, 06:41:29 PM »

What's more you didn't offer a shred of proof to say that he is wrong, other than to call him "a champion warrior one side". Way to show some proof of how wrong he is.
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« Reply #3139 on: March 09, 2014, 06:48:08 PM »

Quote from: msduncan on March 09, 2014, 06:22:53 PM

Quote from: TiLT on March 08, 2014, 06:23:52 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on March 08, 2014, 04:31:09 PM

It's speculated that the XB1 hardware was built from the ground up with DX12 in mind.

<Couple sentences in support of point>

followed by

< EIGHT paragraphs of text letting all Bone users know how it's not going to help them>



If you don't want to be seen as a participant of the console war, stop being a champion warrior of one side even to the extent of coming into the thread of the console YOU DON'T OWN and posting an 8 paragraph essay about it.   

I'm sure this post will be replied to with:

Quote

OMGz I'm a victim and the only European highly skilled programmer and thus the only true authority to speak on these matters TOTALLY neutral party who is being picked on by the TRUE console war brutes!   See?  I've even tried to extend the olive branch in a couple threads but the others are not civilized enough to take my crap...err... I mean come to the table....


Did I cover everything?

Edit to add:  Oh right.  I forgot the couple of fellow-PS4 non-Xbox One owners that come in after you to pat you on the back.   How could I allow such an oversight?

I would kindly request you stop being an oversensitive troll.

TiLT has his moments of fanboyism. This was not one of them.
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« Reply #3140 on: March 09, 2014, 06:55:36 PM »

Quote from: Scraper on March 09, 2014, 06:41:29 PM

What's more you didn't offer a shred of proof to say that he is wrong, other than to call him "a champion warrior one side". Way to show some proof of how wrong he is.

How this turned this ugly I have no clue .
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« Reply #3141 on: March 09, 2014, 09:09:33 PM »

I often find Tilt being biased, but I don't see how the post about DX was at all
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« Reply #3142 on: March 09, 2014, 09:30:28 PM »

I'm trying to think what my next Xbox One game is going to be.  I'm getting Titanfall on the PC, so that's not one that applies for me.  What else is coming up soonish?
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« Reply #3143 on: March 09, 2014, 09:37:00 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on March 09, 2014, 09:30:28 PM

I'm trying to think what my next Xbox One game is going to be.  I'm getting Titanfall on the PC, so that's not one that applies for me.  What else is coming up soonish?

Metal Gear Solid?  Trials?
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« Reply #3144 on: March 09, 2014, 10:12:31 PM »

I imagine Titanfall will be occupying me for some time, but if Thief or Tomb Raider hit $40 I'll pick up either of those.
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« Reply #3145 on: March 09, 2014, 11:27:38 PM »

Quote from: gellar on March 09, 2014, 06:48:08 PM

Quote from: msduncan on March 09, 2014, 06:22:53 PM

Quote from: TiLT on March 08, 2014, 06:23:52 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on March 08, 2014, 04:31:09 PM

It's speculated that the XB1 hardware was built from the ground up with DX12 in mind.

<Couple sentences in support of point>

followed by

< EIGHT paragraphs of text letting all Bone users know how it's not going to help them>



If you don't want to be seen as a participant of the console war, stop being a champion warrior of one side even to the extent of coming into the thread of the console YOU DON'T OWN and posting an 8 paragraph essay about it.   

I'm sure this post will be replied to with:

Quote

OMGz I'm a victim and the only European highly skilled programmer and thus the only true authority to speak on these matters TOTALLY neutral party who is being picked on by the TRUE console war brutes!   See?  I've even tried to extend the olive branch in a couple threads but the others are not civilized enough to take my crap...err... I mean come to the table....


Did I cover everything?

Edit to add:  Oh right.  I forgot the couple of fellow-PS4 non-Xbox One owners that come in after you to pat you on the back.   How could I allow such an oversight?

I would kindly request you stop being an oversensitive troll.

TiLT has his moments of fanboyism. This was not one of them.
He can't be an oversensitive troll. He owns BOTH consoles. That precludes the possibility.
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #3146 on: March 10, 2014, 12:04:03 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing on March 09, 2014, 10:12:31 PM

I imagine Titanfall will be occupying me for some time, but if Thief or Tomb Raider hit $40 I'll pick up either of those.


If you haven't played it yet, Tomb Raider was excellent.  Cool story, tight shooting mechanics, and some of the most intricately designed environments this side of The Witcher 2.

There's no harm in waiting for a discount if you're having fun with the stuff you're playing now, but I'd be surprised if you ever feel you paid too much for it.

-Autistic Angel
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naednek
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« Reply #3147 on: March 10, 2014, 12:42:24 AM »

Quote from: msduncan on March 09, 2014, 06:22:53 PM

Quote from: TiLT on March 08, 2014, 06:23:52 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on March 08, 2014, 04:31:09 PM

It's speculated that the XB1 hardware was built from the ground up with DX12 in mind.

<Couple sentences in support of point>

followed by

< EIGHT paragraphs of text letting all Bone users know how it's not going to help them>



If you don't want to be seen as a participant of the console war, stop being a champion warrior of one side even to the extent of coming into the thread of the console YOU DON'T OWN and posting an 8 paragraph essay about it.    

I'm sure this post will be replied to with:

Quote

OMGz I'm a victim and the only European highly skilled programmer and thus the only true authority to speak on these matters TOTALLY neutral party who is being picked on by the TRUE console war brutes!   See?  I've even tried to extend the olive branch in a couple threads but the others are not civilized enough to take my crap...err... I mean come to the table....


Did I cover everything?

Edit to add:  Oh right.  I forgot the couple of fellow-PS4 non-Xbox One owners that come in after you to pat you on the back.   How could I allow such an oversight?

Seriously?  While your thread has been reported earlier, it looks justice has been served via your peers.  We are now post launch, we have 20+ pages of both sides acting childish.  It needs to stop now.
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« Reply #3148 on: March 10, 2014, 12:56:10 AM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel
There's no harm in waiting for a discount if you're having fun with the stuff you're playing now, but I'd be surprised if you ever feel you paid too much for it.

I actually already own it for the PC, which is why I'm waiting for sale. I played maybe 2 hours of it, really liked it, but got sidetracked and never finished it up. Yes, I'd pay for it again to be able to play on the console with improved graphics, just not full price.

The other factor I have to take into consideration is whether I'm getting s PS4 next month or not. The money is in hand, but I've held off so far because there's no exclusives I'm interested in. Waiting to see if maybe Infamous is worth finally taking the plunge. If I do get it, then I'll probably end up buying the cross-platforms for PS4 until Xbone gets their resolution issues straightened out.
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« Reply #3149 on: March 10, 2014, 01:01:45 AM »

Yeah, wow. I saw nothing in that post that was preferential to one console over another. Most you could grab from that was the PS4 had the ability before XBO and MS was trying to make it sound like it was just them that could do it.

I would disagree with the opinion that users wouldn't see any change. Anything that makes it easier on developers means there is the potential that they can focus on other things like a backburned feature or bugs or just getting it out on time. But it's up to the developers, and unfortunately publishers, on how to devote the extra time so you may be right and nothing will be seen.
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« Reply #3150 on: March 10, 2014, 01:27:27 AM »

Quote from: Andrew Wonser on March 10, 2014, 01:01:45 AM

I would disagree with the opinion that users wouldn't see any change. Anything that makes it easier on developers means there is the potential that they can focus on other things like a backburned feature or bugs or just getting it out on time.


The gist of TiLT's post, as I understood it, is that DirectX 12 adds programming features to PCs that both consoles already have.  Nothing becomes easier for developers because they have the freedom to bypass the driver layer whether DX12 is present or not.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #3151 on: March 10, 2014, 01:54:35 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing on March 10, 2014, 12:56:10 AM

Quote from: Autistic Angel
There's no harm in waiting for a discount if you're having fun with the stuff you're playing now, but I'd be surprised if you ever feel you paid too much for it.

I actually already own it for the PC, which is why I'm waiting for sale. I played maybe 2 hours of it, really liked it, but got sidetracked and never finished it up. Yes, I'd pay for it again to be able to play on the console with improved graphics, just not full price.

It's not a massive upgrade visually over a high end PC. Better yes, but not insanely so.
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« Reply #3152 on: March 10, 2014, 03:44:08 AM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on March 10, 2014, 12:04:03 AM

Quote from: YellowKing on March 09, 2014, 10:12:31 PM

I imagine Titanfall will be occupying me for some time, but if Thief or Tomb Raider hit $40 I'll pick up either of those.


If you haven't played it yet, Tomb Raider was excellent.  Cool story, tight shooting mechanics, and some of the most intricately designed environments this side of The Witcher 2.

There's no harm in waiting for a discount if you're having fun with the stuff you're playing now, but I'd be surprised if you ever feel you paid too much for it.

-Autistic Angel

Yeah, played TR on ps3, now replaying it on ps4. It's crazy good.
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« Reply #3153 on: March 10, 2014, 05:34:49 AM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on March 10, 2014, 01:27:27 AM

Quote from: Andrew Wonser on March 10, 2014, 01:01:45 AM

I would disagree with the opinion that users wouldn't see any change. Anything that makes it easier on developers means there is the potential that they can focus on other things like a backburned feature or bugs or just getting it out on time.


The gist of TiLT's post, as I understood it, is that DirectX 12 adds programming features to PCs that both consoles already have.  Nothing becomes easier for developers because they have the freedom to bypass the driver layer whether DX12 is present or not.

-Autistic Angel

To be fair, Microsoft hasn't really had a chance to present the features of the new version of DirectX yet. What little information I have is based on the teases they've released, and my own experience programming for DirectX.
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« Reply #3154 on: March 10, 2014, 12:27:00 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on March 10, 2014, 05:34:49 AM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on March 10, 2014, 01:27:27 AM

Quote from: Andrew Wonser on March 10, 2014, 01:01:45 AM

I would disagree with the opinion that users wouldn't see any change. Anything that makes it easier on developers means there is the potential that they can focus on other things like a backburned feature or bugs or just getting it out on time.


The gist of TiLT's post, as I understood it, is that DirectX 12 adds programming features to PCs that both consoles already have.  Nothing becomes easier for developers because they have the freedom to bypass the driver layer whether DX12 is present or not.

-Autistic Angel

To be fair, Microsoft hasn't really had a chance to present the features of the new version of DirectX yet. What little information I have is based on the teases they've released, and my own experience programming for DirectX.

...pat pat pat...

 ninja
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« Reply #3155 on: March 10, 2014, 12:36:59 PM »

This is a cross post, because I'm wondering if this applies to Xbone yet (and hoping that it will).  Otherwise, it seems a little late in the game, but it's better than nothing.


Phil Spencer: Games with Gold will feel 'more true' to what consumers want in the future

Here's one insteresting tidbit that never occurred to me:

Quote
"One of our issues with Games with Gold not 'issues,' but differences between the other system we get compared to, is the fact that with Games with Gold, you get to keep that game, regardless of whether you continue to subscribe," Spencer said. "And the business around Games with Gold, for us, is just fundamentally different from some of the other programs that are out there, which does put a different financial picture on a you're gonna go buy a game that's brand new, the cost of putting that in, just to be kind of blunt about it."

OTOH, while I'm sure it would be a challenge to change the infrastructure to such a degree, I'm not sure why they don't make it so that this is not an issue with GwG.

Still, good to hear that better options will be coming.  Is GwG on Xbone yet?  
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« Reply #3156 on: March 10, 2014, 12:53:45 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 10, 2014, 12:36:59 PM

This is a cross post, because I'm wondering if this applies to Xbone yet (and hoping that it will).  Otherwise, it seems a little late in the game, but it's better than nothing.


Phil Spencer: Games with Gold will feel 'more true' to what consumers want in the future

Here's one insteresting tidbit that never occurred to me:

Quote
"One of our issues with Games with Gold not 'issues,' but differences between the other system we get compared to, is the fact that with Games with Gold, you get to keep that game, regardless of whether you continue to subscribe," Spencer said. "And the business around Games with Gold, for us, is just fundamentally different from some of the other programs that are out there, which does put a different financial picture on a you're gonna go buy a game that's brand new, the cost of putting that in, just to be kind of blunt about it."

OTOH, while I'm sure it would be a challenge to change the infrastructure to such a degree, I'm not sure why they don't make it so that this is not an issue with GwG.

Still, good to hear that better options will be coming.  Is GwG on Xbone yet?  


Not yet, I suspect the library needs to get bigger
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« Reply #3157 on: March 10, 2014, 03:18:20 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 10, 2014, 12:36:59 PM

This is a cross post, because I'm wondering if this applies to Xbone yet (and hoping that it will).  Otherwise, it seems a little late in the game, but it's better than nothing.


Phil Spencer: Games with Gold will feel 'more true' to what consumers want in the future

Here's one insteresting tidbit that never occurred to me:

Quote
"One of our issues with Games with Gold not 'issues,' but differences between the other system we get compared to, is the fact that with Games with Gold, you get to keep that game, regardless of whether you continue to subscribe," Spencer said. "And the business around Games with Gold, for us, is just fundamentally different from some of the other programs that are out there, which does put a different financial picture on a you're gonna go buy a game that's brand new, the cost of putting that in, just to be kind of blunt about it."

OTOH, while I'm sure it would be a challenge to change the infrastructure to such a degree, I'm not sure why they don't make it so that this is not an issue with GwG.

Still, good to hear that better options will be coming.  Is GwG on Xbone yet?  


Gee, MS...thanks for letting me keep those ancient games if I stop subscribing to Live.  I don't even pay attention to what they offer anymore because the games they've offered have just been so old.  I'll not be dropping my PS+ subscription ever, so I never have to worry about losing the games.  Too much value in the subscription.
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« Reply #3158 on: March 10, 2014, 04:07:19 PM »

Quote from: The Grue on March 10, 2014, 03:18:20 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 10, 2014, 12:36:59 PM

This is a cross post, because I'm wondering if this applies to Xbone yet (and hoping that it will).  Otherwise, it seems a little late in the game, but it's better than nothing.


Phil Spencer: Games with Gold will feel 'more true' to what consumers want in the future

Here's one insteresting tidbit that never occurred to me:

Quote
"One of our issues with Games with Gold not 'issues,' but differences between the other system we get compared to, is the fact that with Games with Gold, you get to keep that game, regardless of whether you continue to subscribe," Spencer said. "And the business around Games with Gold, for us, is just fundamentally different from some of the other programs that are out there, which does put a different financial picture on a you're gonna go buy a game that's brand new, the cost of putting that in, just to be kind of blunt about it."

OTOH, while I'm sure it would be a challenge to change the infrastructure to such a degree, I'm not sure why they don't make it so that this is not an issue with GwG.

Still, good to hear that better options will be coming.  Is GwG on Xbone yet?  


Gee, MS...thanks for letting me keep those ancient games if I stop subscribing to Live.  I don't even pay attention to what they offer anymore because the games they've offered have just been so old.  I'll not be dropping my PS+ subscription ever, so I never have to worry about losing the games.  Too much value in the subscription.
it's a start at least. they have a long time to go though. both in the monthly games offerings and also in the sales.  from the threads I've seen, they at least have a decent sale price now and again. 
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hmm...


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« Reply #3159 on: March 10, 2014, 08:19:22 PM »

Does the XB1 continue downloading things after you turn it off?  Or do you have to turn it off in a specific way to make that happen?  I know with the 360 you had to press and hold the power button to get it to keep downloading.
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