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Author Topic: New Nintendo MMORPG  (Read 2296 times)
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Calvin
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« on: February 28, 2005, 01:45:05 AM »

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000730033525/

The main draw-you can hold hands. LOTS OF PEOPLE can hold hands. Maybe thousands. How incredibly fucking cool.

Have i mentioned my utter contempt for Nintendo lately (and yes, I have a gamecube, leave me alone).
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2005, 01:50:22 AM »

The article says the dev house is Chunsoft. Is that company owned by Nintendo? And, so you feel contempt for any company that makes games for a younger age bracket? Or just contempt for this company?
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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2005, 02:03:15 AM »

Yeah it would be nice if you actually read what you were bashing Rage...

On top of that I think holding grudges against companies  or having contempt for a company that doesn't cater to your tastes is about as childish as it gets.

You're  a decent guy, but you do say some really retarded things every now and again...


Good call on the MMORPG and not having your facts right. I lvoe how people allways associate titles on a Nintendo system as being made by Nintendo, Chunsoft is the developer and publisher of the game and it's most definately never coming to America, but Heaven forbid it doesn't appeal to Western Tastes.
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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2005, 02:15:54 AM »

Quote from: "Tebunker"
Yeah it would be nice if you actually read what you were bashing Rage...

On top of that I think holding grudges against companies  or having contempt for a company that doesn't cater to your tastes is about as childish as it gets.

You're  a decent guy, but you do say some really retarded things every now and again...


Good call on the MMORPG and not having your facts right. I lvoe how people allways associate titles on a Nintendo system as being made by Nintendo, Chunsoft is the developer and publisher of the game and it's most definately never coming to America, but Heaven forbid it doesn't appeal to Western Tastes.


Its still a game on their goddamn system Tebunker, and as decent a guy as I think you are, your slavish adherence to defending Nintendo, the mediocre Gamecube system, and the bevy of utterly forgettable titles that have accompanied it strikes me as just as retarded as me jumping up and down on this MMORPG.

To be fair to you, although I realized that Nintendo wasn't developing this game, the fact that it was on their system was enough for me to take a swipe at them, which maybe childish, but hey, that didn't stop you from busting the XBox every chance a few years ago (if it wasn't you then I hang my head in shame).
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« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2005, 02:21:31 AM »

Quote from: "Andrew Mallon"
The article says the dev house is Chunsoft. Is that company owned by Nintendo? And, so you feel contempt for any company that makes games for a younger age bracket? Or just contempt for this company?


Im just bitter that I wasted money on a Gamecube. I also find the interviews given by almost every Nintendo representative tremendously arrogant, startlingy short-sighted, just as anti-American as you presume me to be anti-Japanese (Stylistically of course, with regards to the games), and hopelessly out of touch with the American market.
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2005, 02:23:56 AM »

Okay I erased the whole post, I didn't read Rage's last paragraph, atleast you admit it's silly, but while I may have bashed the Xbox years ago, that's just that, it was years ago and I grew up and realized that life is too short to hold grudges against companies and people and things. If I don't like it I don't support it, and I don't complain about it(too much  :wink: )
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« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2005, 02:24:35 AM »

Chunsoft's not bad at making dungeon crawlers.  Unfortunately, they have absolutely no presence or clout in the US.

Plus, the hand-holding concept is so sickeningly kiddie that I can almost feel my testicles ascending in protest.
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Calvin
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« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2005, 02:27:18 AM »

Quote from: "Tebunker"
.
Lastly, its silly to blame Nintendo for a game that a 3rd party makes, so you blame Microsoft and Sony and Nintendo everytime Electronic Arts makes a half-assed game that doesn't live up to it's potential or when they make more licensed crap than you can shake a stick at? No, so why should it be any different here? Because you are holding a childish grudge against Nintendo that's why.


Not against the Nintendo of old, and not a grudge. I lost respect for the company, their mouthpieces, and both their hardware and software with this last release. Those are the facts, its not a grudge, its the way I feel about this generation of Nintendo. It might be childish, but thats really irrelevant to me. I am entitled to thinking they have turned into a short-sighted company that is grossly misunderstanding the US market.

And you are right, there are lots of companies probably deserving of contempt, especially including EA, but Nintendo as a hardware maker I think gets an unfiar amount of attention.
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« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2005, 02:27:29 AM »

Quote from: "Rage"
Quote from: "Andrew Mallon"
The article says the dev house is Chunsoft. Is that company owned by Nintendo? And, so you feel contempt for any company that makes games for a younger age bracket? Or just contempt for this company?


Im just bitter that I wasted money on a Gamecube. I also find the interviews given by almost every Nintendo representative tremendously arrogant, startlingy short-sighted, just as anti-American as you presume me to be anti-Japanese (Stylistically of course, with regards to the games), and hopelessly out of touch with the American market.


Well, I agree with you on a lot of that, although some of Reggie Fils-Aime comments throughout this year have been remarkably refreshing. It's a shame if you're just judging Nintendo games on their stylistic approach, rather than the gameplay. I think it's a sad commentary on the gaming industry when Nintendo, a company who develops games for the 8-and-up market, consistently makes better and more fun games that Sony and Microsoft, who are ostensibly developing games for adults and the 14-and-over crowd.
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Tebunker
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« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2005, 02:35:41 AM »

here are my thoughts on Nintendo currently, and yes I agree that they are blissfully out of touch, I posted this on IGn and it's transposed here:


Quote
Just wanted to post some random thoughts I've been having about the big N. Loved the company since I was a kid, well before a lot of you were born, but after reading the Nintendo Minutes, and all these threads here lately I felt like writing everything down before I got it all jumbled in my head....


I feel Nintendo has done okay this generation first party wise. However, I wish that they'd stop listening to Miyamoto-san and Marketing Directors in terms of company direction.

In plain english Miyamoto is a developer/designer and he really shouldn't have integral input into how the company is run, and the past few years he's had more and more input and Nintendo has gone further and further out there in terms of mis-understanding what gamers want. They just don't seem to get the West, and that's primarily because Miyamoto doesn't get the West, in terms of what the majority of gamers want. No I am not talking online, I am talking games with more depth to go along with the gameplay, games that accompany his trademark gameplay with good stories, VOICE ACTING etc. things that add to the experience beyond simple gameplay. We don't want gimmicks we want stuff that hooks us in even deeper.

Marketing people should never be allowed to give direct instruction to a company, they're a resource to be used by Management, they are incapable of being decision makers or running businesses because they are incapable of seeing the whole picture. Nintendo relies way too heavily on their marketing guys. They do this reasearch, tell us they've done their research and the end results show us that they didn't do any real research. They are the main reason Nintendo makes so many decisions that frustrate us...

I really think Nintendo is pretty much the same company it was in 1988, and that just doesn't cut it in 2005. They still don't release all their games on this side of the world because they're afraid that they're too Japanese. We live in a fairly global society and have a fairly global economy, Nintendo needs to realize this and should start treating their business like a truly global business. We're smarter consumers now and we demand more, you either give it to us or suffer.

If a game like Custom Robo, with no advertising or support in general can sell almost 200k copies then it make sense for Nintendo to release every and any game in the states. They need to re-evaluate their priorities, temper their expectations and they need to revolutionize the way they do businees. Right now they're trying to re-invent the wheel, or create the next NES or pokemon, when they should be focussing solely on doing the basics better than any other gaming company. That means delivering technologically advanced hardware that's easy to use, dependable and reliable for the long term and affordable. Delivering games that use modern techniques in design and development that are fun to play and keep users interested, instead of retreading old games with gimmicks. Finally they need to deliver a steady stream of software, that means delivering atleast one 1st party game a month if not more. They need to become more involved with other studios so they can produce more quality titles and keep it flowing. There should never be a software drought on the system.

They already have the best customer service, the best warranties and the groundwork to beat out MS and Sony in the VG market, but they've become fixated on being the NEXT BIG THING, and they don't realize that it's going to ruin their business. By focussing and doing the basics better than everyone else, you don't need to be the next big star, because you will already outshine all the comepetition.

It seems simple enough really, Strong solid hardware, consistent gameflow, and good service, but they want to be the next IPod and they're missing out on how Apple did it. They didn't reinvent the wheel they simply made the best whell on the block and made it easy to install and use.


Oh and Rage, if you still have that cube, you should hold onto it for at the least Fire Emblem this summer, it will give you a good RPG/Strategy fix. Hell I've come to believe that Intelligent Systems is the only Nintendo developer that's capable of making relevant games these days...
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« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2005, 07:18:53 AM »

The game sounds cool to me, especially given that Chunsoft had a hand in creating some of the Dragon Quest/Warrior games.
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Calvin
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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2005, 07:27:26 AM »

Quote from: "Tebunker"
here are my thoughts on Nintendo currently, and yes I agree that they are blissfully out of touch, I posted this on IGn and it's transposed here:


Quote
Just wanted to post some random thoughts I've been having about the big N. Loved the company since I was a kid, well before a lot of you were born, but after reading the Nintendo Minutes, and all these threads here lately I felt like writing everything down before I got it all jumbled in my head....


I feel Nintendo has done okay this generation first party wise. However, I wish that they'd stop listening to Miyamoto-san and Marketing Directors in terms of company direction.

In plain english Miyamoto is a developer/designer and he really shouldn't have integral input into how the company is run, and the past few years he's had more and more input and Nintendo has gone further and further out there in terms of mis-understanding what gamers want. They just don't seem to get the West, and that's primarily because Miyamoto doesn't get the West, in terms of what the majority of gamers want. No I am not talking online, I am talking games with more depth to go along with the gameplay, games that accompany his trademark gameplay with good stories, VOICE ACTING etc. things that add to the experience beyond simple gameplay. We don't want gimmicks we want stuff that hooks us in even deeper.

Marketing people should never be allowed to give direct instruction to a company, they're a resource to be used by Management, they are incapable of being decision makers or running businesses because they are incapable of seeing the whole picture. Nintendo relies way too heavily on their marketing guys. They do this reasearch, tell us they've done their research and the end results show us that they didn't do any real research. They are the main reason Nintendo makes so many decisions that frustrate us...

I really think Nintendo is pretty much the same company it was in 1988, and that just doesn't cut it in 2005. They still don't release all their games on this side of the world because they're afraid that they're too Japanese. We live in a fairly global society and have a fairly global economy, Nintendo needs to realize this and should start treating their business like a truly global business. We're smarter consumers now and we demand more, you either give it to us or suffer.

If a game like Custom Robo, with no advertising or support in general can sell almost 200k copies then it make sense for Nintendo to release every and any game in the states. They need to re-evaluate their priorities, temper their expectations and they need to revolutionize the way they do businees. Right now they're trying to re-invent the wheel, or create the next NES or pokemon, when they should be focussing solely on doing the basics better than any other gaming company. That means delivering technologically advanced hardware that's easy to use, dependable and reliable for the long term and affordable. Delivering games that use modern techniques in design and development that are fun to play and keep users interested, instead of retreading old games with gimmicks. Finally they need to deliver a steady stream of software, that means delivering atleast one 1st party game a month if not more. They need to become more involved with other studios so they can produce more quality titles and keep it flowing. There should never be a software drought on the system.

They already have the best customer service, the best warranties and the groundwork to beat out MS and Sony in the VG market, but they've become fixated on being the NEXT BIG THING, and they don't realize that it's going to ruin their business. By focussing and doing the basics better than everyone else, you don't need to be the next big star, because you will already outshine all the comepetition.

It seems simple enough really, Strong solid hardware, consistent gameflow, and good service, but they want to be the next IPod and they're missing out on how Apple did it. They didn't reinvent the wheel they simply made the best whell on the block and made it easy to install and use.


Oh and Rage, if you still have that cube, you should hold onto it for at the least Fire Emblem this summer, it will give you a good RPG/Strategy fix. Hell I've come to believe that Intelligent Systems is the only Nintendo developer that's capable of making relevant games these days...


Well written thoughts, although I disagree with the premise (Nintendo has a future) and the conclusion, and that is honestly less based on "hate", than on belief that the japanese market will be even more controlled by the PS3 with a reasonable presence by the NRevolution and the XBOX2 (if these new rpgs pan out, it could be an even bigger presence), and the Amiercan market again dominated by the PS3 with the XBOX2 gaining some ground. Either way, this is likely a moot point until we actually see the systems, so speculation is probably more a result of pre-existing bias than hard data at this point.

Either way, it is not cost effective to sell the cube, and there are, to its credit, 3-4 games that I find interesting, so I will keep it. I will check out this Fire Emblem game, try to remind me when it comes out.
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2005, 07:37:50 AM »

I don't have any desire to sell my Cube... I still want to play Baten Kaitos, RE4, Mario Kart, RE0, and more.

Oh, and Rage -- check your damn PMs!
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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2005, 07:45:27 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
I don't have any desire to sell my Cube... I still want to play Baten Kaitos, RE4, Mario Kart, RE0, and more.

Oh, and Rage -- check your damn PMs!


Damnit, just saw it, PM'ing you back.
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« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2005, 02:15:11 PM »

I have never been a fan of nintendo... Mind you two of my most favorite games are Techmo Bowl and Baseball Stars.

But as I get older, I find myself ejoying the Nintendo games less and less.  Tey still can come out with gems, but I keep feeling as I see these games that nintendo is going the way of the Atari 2600.  They need to change the way they do games and what they will and wont do.

I am not a nintendo hater.   I think they have do so much for video games as a whole, and competition makes things better.   What I am fearing is, they have stopped being true competition, and are slowly going the way of the dreamcast.  Maybe they are just putting on a brave front right now, when in actuality they are doing all the tings they said they wouldnt with the next gen, but at this rate, the only market they are likely to ever be good in again is Japan.
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« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2005, 07:21:10 PM »

Quote from: "Rage"
Quote from: "Tebunker"
Yeah it would be nice if you actually read what you were bashing Rage...

On top of that I think holding grudges against companies  or having contempt for a company that doesn't cater to your tastes is about as childish as it gets.

You're  a decent guy, but you do say some really retarded things every now and again...


Good call on the MMORPG and not having your facts right. I lvoe how people allways associate titles on a Nintendo system as being made by Nintendo, Chunsoft is the developer and publisher of the game and it's most definately never coming to America, but Heaven forbid it doesn't appeal to Western Tastes.


Its still a game on their goddamn system Tebunker, and as decent a guy as I think you are, your slavish adherence to defending Nintendo, the mediocre Gamecube system, and the bevy of utterly forgettable titles that have accompanied it strikes me as just as retarded as me jumping up and down on this MMORPG.

To be fair to you, although I realized that Nintendo wasn't developing this game, the fact that it was on their system was enough for me to take a swipe at them, which maybe childish, but hey, that didn't stop you from busting the XBox every chance a few years ago (if it wasn't you then I hang my head in shame).


I actually have been quite happy with my Cube, as it provides me with a bevy of titles that aren't just clones of PS2 and XBox games (or 3rd party titles that are too often just clones of one another).

Disclaimer:  I own all three platforms and enjoy them all, but my Cube gets the most playtime with its great multiplayer lineup and some awesome single-player titles like RE4, the Metroid games, Zelda, and others.  In fact, of all my systems, the one with the least number of exclusive and awesome games that appeal to me (note that I just stated the caveat that the games must appeal to me) is my X-Box.  Some great games (Ninja Gaiden in particular), but mostly 3rd party games that show up on other systems too.

I think you're a bit overly harsh on Nintendo just because they happen to be making games that don't adhere to America's current primary target audience for most developers: the bloodthirsty [im]mature gamers who want harsh language, gore, heavy violence, and "edgy" games.

Here's a question:  when something that's "edgy" is done over and over again, is it still "edgy" anymore?

Oh, and by the way, hi.  I'm new here.  slywink
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« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2005, 08:21:18 PM »

Hiya Farscry, good to have you aboard!

Great comments as well, which as another multiplatform users I completely agree with.

Here's another question: what defines 'edgy'?  Does edgy have to do with the content of a game (i.e. adult content, themes, et.c) or can a game that takes risks with gameplay be considered edgy as well (i.e. can innovation == edgy)?

My time spent with each console tends to be pretty cyclical depending on my moods/current games.  For example, I've played the PS2/Gamecube (GT4/RE4) quite a bit over the last few months while the Xbox has maybe been on once or twice during that timeperiod - and I'm sure next month those times will be all changed around as well.

If I took a good honest look at what I've played and enjoyed from all three consoles since their release I'd have to guess that while my total playtime has probably been the greatest on the Xbox, the games that I have enjoyed playing the most have been on the Gamecube.   From the "rehashes" like Zelda, Metroid, Mario, and Resident Evil (that have for the most part evolved and improved previous iterations of those series) to unique innovative games like Animal Crossing and Pikmin 2, the total amount of AAA titles for the system is much greater than what I could name for my PS2 or Xbox.

While I completely agree that Nintendo is out of touch with its consumer base in some repects (claiming that consumers don't care about playing online, weird focus on GBA-Cube connectivity, etc.), I would argue that in a lot of aspects they are more in tune with what gamers want than any other company - fun, innovative, original games.
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« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2005, 08:22:28 PM »

"I think you're a bit overly harsh on Nintendo just because they happen to be making games that don't adhere to America's current primary target audience for most developers: the bloodthirsty [im]mature gamers who want harsh language, gore, heavy violence, and "edgy" games. "


Based on the domination of the PS2 in japan you could say they arn't making games that adhere to the primary market their either. Nintendo is becoming a niche gaming company. They have their fan base who will want their first party stuff, they will still make good money too, but I don't see anything that will get them back into any sort of comeptition with Sony. Maybe they don't care to though and are just happy to go their own way as long as they still make a profit.
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« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2005, 08:35:38 PM »

Quote from: "Jumangi"


Based on the domination of the PS2 in japan you could say they arn't making games that adhere to the primary market their either. Nintendo is becoming a niche gaming company. They have their fan base who will want their first party stuff, they will still make good money too, but I don't see anything that will get them back into any sort of comeptition with Sony. Maybe they don't care to though and are just happy to go their own way as long as they still make a profit.


I think you're understating Nintendo's position in Japan, somewhat. Nintenodo's in second place, sure, but they're have a higher percentage of the market there than the Xbox does in the U.S. And the worldwide sales of GC and Xbox are about even.

I agree with Dimmona and Farscry (welcome). Nintendo's games are a cut above most others. Almost all of the GC-exclusive games I've played this generation are a clear cut above the other consoles' exclusives in terms of quality.
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« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2005, 11:24:40 PM »

Quote
I agree with Dimmona and Farscry (welcome). Nintendo's games are a cut above most others. Almost all of the GC-exclusive games I've played this generation are a clear cut above the other consoles' exclusives in terms of quality.


it's the quality/quantity thing, & i agree as well...

nintendo does know what it's doing - even tho what it's doing isn't particularly what some people would like it to be doing. i work in a children's hospital, full of n64s & cubes, & i've never heard anyone complain - quite the contrary...

Quote
I think you're a bit overly harsh on Nintendo just because they happen to be making games that don't adhere to America's current primary target audience for most developers: the bloodthirsty [im]mature gamers who want harsh language, gore, heavy violence, and "edgy" games.


&, maybe it's just me, but the older i get as a casual gamer, & the more i see the results of people running around blasting stuff in the real world, the less i find myself inclined to do it in game form, & the better & better pure fantasy, & nintendo games (for the most part), look...

'fun' is in the eye of the beholder...
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« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2005, 02:20:21 AM »

Quote from: "Andrew Mallon"
Quote from: "Jumangi"


Based on the domination of the PS2 in japan you could say they arn't making games that adhere to the primary market their either. Nintendo is becoming a niche gaming company. They have their fan base who will want their first party stuff, they will still make good money too, but I don't see anything that will get them back into any sort of comeptition with Sony. Maybe they don't care to though and are just happy to go their own way as long as they still make a profit.


I think you're understating Nintendo's position in Japan, somewhat. Nintenodo's in second place, sure, but they're have a higher percentage of the market there than the Xbox does in the U.S. And the worldwide sales of GC and Xbox are about even.



Second is a relative term when it comes to console sales. A marketing person would say this because it sounds good. I'm talking about actual numbers, and when you look at that the PS2 has vastly oustsold the GC in Japan as much as it has elsewhere. That was my point. As to mentioning the Xbox that has nothing to do with what I said(was talking about GC and PS2 in Japan only). The whole who's second between the Xbox and GC is silly. Again that stuff is for fanboys and marketing people.
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