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Author Topic: New Colonization!  (Read 6913 times)
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Haplo
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« on: June 09, 2008, 07:31:55 PM »

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/39212/Civilization-IV-Colonization-Announced
Can't wait!
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Sarkus
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2008, 07:35:56 PM »

Wow.  That's a bit of a surprise.  I always like Colonization, even though it wasn't the best game of that type.  Should be interesting to see how they implement it here.  And I'm pleased to see they are doing it as an expansion to Civ IV and not a new game.

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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2008, 07:40:14 PM »

Wow, that's fantastic news!  I love Colonization (I still fire it up a few times per year) and I'm really looking forward to this. thumbsup

Sarkus, the article lists it as a "standalone expansion", which would make it appear to not need Civ4 at all.
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2008, 07:58:52 PM »

Quote from: Biyobi on June 09, 2008, 07:40:14 PM

Wow, that's fantastic news!  I love Colonization (I still fire it up a few times per year) and I'm really looking forward to this. thumbsup

Sarkus, the article lists it as a "standalone expansion", which would make it appear to not need Civ4 at all.

Yeah, I see that now.  Sounds like it might be priced as a full priced game after all.

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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2008, 08:13:50 PM »

I'm a BIG fan of the original Colonization, but I'm not sure I like the idea of it being a Civ 4 mod.

I know it makes sense for them, as it will undoubtedly make it A LOT easier to develop, but there are certain things about Civ that I've always despised.

For some reason, they've chosen to stick with the million single units combat system ever since the original civilization, and the ability to group them or the restrictive "army" system doesn't remove what I consider a highly flawed system - especially during multiplayer sessions - because of simultaneous turns.

As far back as Call to Power 2, we saw how it could be improved by making combined arms units - of which there would be fewer. This would make the late stage game a hell of a lot more managable, not to mention that it'd make a lot more sense.

A new Colonization would definitely benefit from having multiple unit armies - with artillery at the back, infantry up front, etc.

It's the single reason I haven't been able to enjoy the Civ games like I should, because I absolutely despise having to fight with that atrocious single unit combat system - once you get to the 50+ units stage.
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2008, 08:57:05 PM »

Careful Hap..Clavin hates Ve3D links smile..

As for that game..WOW..its been so long. Those screenshots look amazing. Im excited.
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« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2008, 09:05:27 PM »

On the one hand, I'm excited because I loved Colonization, but I'm not sure it fits with the Civ IV engine.  Thise screen shots make it look like just another mod, and unless word of mouth is outstanding I may take a wait-and-see on this one.
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2008, 09:09:56 PM »

Quote from: tgb1.1 on June 09, 2008, 09:05:27 PM

On the one hand, I'm excited because I loved Colonization, but I'm not sure it fits with the Civ IV engine.  Thise screen shots make it look like just another mod, and unless word of mouth is outstanding I may take a wait-and-see on this one.

I'm confused by this statement.  Colonization was to the Civ 1 engine what this looks to be to the Civ IV engine.  What about the Civ IV engine makes this work any less well?

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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2008, 11:03:41 PM »

I have Microprose's Conquer the World collection.  One by one, the games in this collection are being made obsolete.  Transport Tycoon has been replaced by OpenTTD, Pirates! Gold by the 2004 Pirates! remake, Railroad Tycoon Deluxe by Railroads! (although, by many accounts, Railroads! did not live up to its pedigree) and soon I'll have a new Colonization.  Pretty cool!
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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2008, 11:07:33 PM »

Quote from: Hipolito on June 09, 2008, 11:03:41 PM

I have Microprose's Conquer the World collection.  One by one, the games in this collection are being made obsolete.  Transport Tycoon has been replaced by OpenTTD, Pirates! Gold by the 2004 Pirates! remake, Railroad Tycoon Deluxe by Railroads! (although, by many accounts, Railroads! did not live up to its pedigree) and soon I'll have a new Colonization.  Pretty cool!
I bought that pack for $.99 and it was the best gaming purchase I've ever made.
Remember: you wouldn't be able to play OpenTTD without Transport Tycoon that came with that box!

Or did I buy that $5 copy of Transport Tycoon Deluxe for a reason?
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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2008, 11:18:28 PM »

Quote from: Sarkus on June 09, 2008, 09:09:56 PM

Quote from: tgb1.1 on June 09, 2008, 09:05:27 PM

On the one hand, I'm excited because I loved Colonization, but I'm not sure it fits with the Civ IV engine.  Thise screen shots make it look like just another mod, and unless word of mouth is outstanding I may take a wait-and-see on this one.

I'm confused by this statement.  Colonization was to the Civ 1 engine what this looks to be to the Civ IV engine.  What about the Civ IV engine makes this work any less well?



I had forgotten that.  You're right.  I stand corrected.
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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2008, 11:43:55 PM »

I could have sworn that colonization wasn't turn based.  Maybe my memory fails me. 
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« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2008, 12:33:04 AM »

Quote from: naednek on June 09, 2008, 11:43:55 PM

I could have sworn that colonization wasn't turn based.  Maybe my memory fails me. 

definitely turn based.


Quote from: Daehawk on June 09, 2008, 08:57:05 PM

Careful Hap..Clavin hates Ve3D links smile..

As for that game..WOW..its been so long. Those screenshots look amazing. Im excited.

no, he just hates you.  I told you not to kill his dog, steal his woman and slash the tires on his pickup truck.
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« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2008, 01:45:18 AM »

Just last night I was thinking how much I wish that somebody would remake Colonization. Scary.  ninja
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« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2008, 02:12:53 AM »

Quote from: Ironrod on June 10, 2008, 01:45:18 AM

Just last night I was thinking how much I wish that somebody would remake Colonization. Scary.  ninja

can you think about someone remaking starflight
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« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2008, 03:49:15 AM »

Was Colonization the one with tactical combat fought on chess-like board with say, your musketman firing, then his firing, and so on? With combat figures rather big; that is, not with hundreds of men but six or seven troops?

If anyone's familiar with the fantasy game Disciples, was Colonizations' combat like that?
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« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2008, 04:13:25 AM »

Quote from: naednek on June 10, 2008, 02:12:53 AM

Quote from: Ironrod on June 10, 2008, 01:45:18 AM

Just last night I was thinking how much I wish that somebody would remake Colonization. Scary.  ninja

can you think about someone remaking starflight

no, Ultima IV!  and Autoduel!  oh, and don't forget Moebius!
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« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2008, 04:33:38 AM »

Quote from: JohnathanStrange on June 10, 2008, 03:49:15 AM

Was Colonization the one with tactical combat fought on chess-like board with say, your musketman firing, then his firing, and so on? With combat figures rather big; that is, not with hundreds of men but six or seven troops?

If anyone's familiar with the fantasy game Disciples, was Colonizations' combat like that?

It sounds like you're thinking of Conquest of The New World.  IIRC, Colonization's combat worked the same as Civilization's combat.
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« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2008, 05:05:29 AM »

Quote from: JohnathanStrange on June 10, 2008, 03:49:15 AM

Was Colonization the one with tactical combat fought on chess-like board with say, your musketman firing, then his firing, and so on? With combat figures rather big; that is, not with hundreds of men but six or seven troops?

You might be thinking of Conquest of the New World
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/conquestofthenewworld/index.html
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« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2008, 02:06:43 PM »

Thanks!

Yes, Conquest of the New World, thanks! BTW, a fun game in its own right - I think, it's been so long.

BTW, the screenshots of the proposed Colonization do kind of remind me of a mod rather than a new game. I'm just sayin'...

I'd probably try it out anyway.

P.S. Civilization's newest incarnation (Revolutions?) has a demo out.
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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2008, 07:26:28 PM »

This one is shipping today so you might be able to find it as early as tomorrow.  The download options are unclear: GamersGate is promoting it but looks like they won't be releasing until the 26th (Euro release date) while neither Steam or D2D have any mention of the game.

Anyone else planning to pick this up?
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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2008, 07:37:46 PM »

Should have my copy from Amazon by Friday.
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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2008, 07:52:41 PM »

I'll be picking it up from the local Gamestop tomorrow. Will try to post impressions.

Bael
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« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2008, 05:44:50 PM »

Can you let us know if you need the DVD in the drive to play? I hate games that do that so if you do, maybe I'll try to wait and see if Steam will get the game.
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« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2008, 07:12:58 PM »

My copy from Amazon should be here Thurs.  Can't wait- Colonization is one of my all-time favorites.  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2008, 02:08:28 AM »

Quote from: Lorini on September 23, 2008, 05:44:50 PM

Can you let us know if you need the DVD in the drive to play? I hate games that do that so if you do, maybe I'll try to wait and see if Steam will get the game.

Requires the disk.

It's out on Steam.
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« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2008, 02:22:36 AM »

Cross posted at OO, I'm a huge Colonization fan, and enjoyed the original even more than the Civilization games. I picked this up during my lunch hour, and have just put a solid 2 hours into it. Here are my rambling impressions:

For those of you who were worried that it's a carbon copy of the original, don't be. It's picked up a lot of elements of the Civilization games. I haven't determined whether that's a good or a bad thing yet.

You have to earn cultural points in order to expand your territory, ala Civilization.

Another thing I didn't immediately pick up on is that you have to earn military, diplomacy, exploration, and religious points plus liberty bells in order to get founding fathers. I'm playing as the Dutch, and learned that the hard way when the English picked up 6 founding fathers within an hour of game play and I was still sitting around pumping all my resources into buildings and production, not having earned a single founding father.

I'm a little bit worried about the pace. When I used to the play the original I played it leisurely: building up my resources, decimating the European powers and natives surrounding me, building mammoth armies, and getting my rebel sentiment up to 100% in just about all of my cities before I declared a revolution. One thing that has me worried is that you have to declare independence before any of the other powers. The AI's a lot better than the original, and is keeping me on my toes, and I have this feeling that I'm going to have to declare independence earlier than I'd like just to beat them to the punch.

Overall, I'm enjoying it for the same reasons that I enjoyed the original. I had a huge smile on my face when I purchased my first privateer. I managed to sink 2 English caravels within 6 turns, and hopefully put a crimp in the economy of that smug bastard George Washington. He may be outdoing me with the founding fathers, but lets see him win with his economic lines to Europe cut.
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« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2008, 04:21:44 AM »

Yes except the Steam version doesn't apparently come with a manual. Can't win for losing  icon_evil
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« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2008, 08:18:20 AM »

You mean it doesn't even come with a PDF manual? What the heck were they thinking? I'm sure that will be updated in a patch though.
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« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2008, 10:21:00 AM »

I got this today and put in about 12 hours total, staying up until 3 AM local playing it.  I guess that means I like it.   nod
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« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2008, 10:44:54 PM »

So far, so good. Pretty challenging game, but it is very true to the old colonization style (although, to be fair, I did not play colonization very much in the old days). I agree with the above, the game looks exactly like Civ4, not surprising, as it was built from the engine as sort of a "total conversion" mod. The gameplay is significantly different from Civ4 and it should not be seen as even really the same game, in as much as the orginal Civ was not the same game as the orginal Colonization.

There are a TON of strategic possibilities here. Do you put newcoming colonists into one city to make a metropolis, do you spread them out, do you sacrifice one precious precious worker to make a military unit to deal with other nations or the natives, do you emphasize liberty bells (to expand cultural borders and rebellion level) or do you emphasize religion to get faster colonies? All great choices, and all viable in their own way.

There is a good amount of micromanagement here... and it can get a bit over the top for those that don't want to juggle colonists or ship goods. Luckily, the import/export feature and the trade route plannner make some of this a bit better, and you can have your wagon trains automatically supply colonies with different goods back and forth. It works rather well, but the auto-colonist placement is not as successful (and frankly, juggling your workforce is most of what this game is about, so why would you want to automate it). The scale, and the map, are both much smaller than a Civ game. Having 5-6 colonies is a big task and one that will need decent management and tending. Obviously, you could just set up small resource "posts" that serve to gather one good and ship it to larger processing colonies, but this will require wagon trains and infrastructure (in the form of roads).

You will hate the monarch. This is natural. The actual colonists hated their monarch too. Taxes will tick you off. Random demands for money will REALLY tick you off. Just as soon as you get the 3000 gold you need to buy the cool military unit or boat you wanted, the king will ask you for a "donation" of 640+ gold. He/she is a right b*@#%@#d. Eventually, your economy will get into swing and this will be less of a problem.

There are some flaws here. One was instantly apparent. I booted up the game, sat down to pick my faction. Ah, here we are - France (bonus to deal with Natives), Spain (bonus to kill Natives), England (bonus to liberty bells), the Dutch (bonus to trade), and Portu.... WAIT, NO PORTUGAL!?!?!?! Seriously, the game is called "Colonization," the orginal Civ4 that the game is based on has the Portuguese, but they decided to NOT INCLUDE ONE OF THE MOST PROLIFIC COLONIZING NATIONS IN THE GAME?! I love the Dutch and all, but Portugal was far more involved in serious New World colonization than the Dutch (and yes, this is said by a guy currently living in New Amsterdam). The Portuguese should be added and given some sort of bonus to exploration or something like that.

Next, the goods are a bit without personality. I really don't feel much of a difference from monopolizing the coat market, than the cloth market or the cigar market. Sure, the prices are different, and they rise and fall, but it all seems like you could have created a catch-all "finished goods" and be just as well off. The natives demand different things, but I have seen little benefit in trading with the native over trading with Europe. Maybe I just haven't played enough yet.

Otherwise, a great game at a decent price (here anyway). Good for a quick and rather addictive play. I would give it somewhere around 85/100, if I were into arbitrary and highly suibjective numerical reviewing.

NOTE: I have confirmed that CD is required to run the game. Also, it may indeed use Securom, so if DRM just really pisses you off, do some research first. PLEASE do NOT turn this tread into a DRM flame fest! I think that, by now, we all know your opinions on the matter.

Bael
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« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2008, 11:51:48 PM »

Quote from: baelthazar on September 24, 2008, 10:44:54 PM


There are a TON of strategic possibilities here. Do you put newcoming colonists into one city to make a metropolis, do you spread them out, do you sacrifice one precious precious worker to make a military unit to deal with other nations or the natives, do you emphasize liberty bells (to expand cultural borders and rebellion level) or do you emphasize religion to get faster colonies? All great choices, and all viable in their own way.

That does it--I'm in!   nod  I'll definitely pick up the game this week.  Thanks for the useful impressions!
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« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2008, 01:33:41 AM »

Quote from: baelthazar on September 24, 2008, 10:44:54 PM

NOTE: I have confirmed that CD is required to run the game. Also, it may indeed use Securom, so if DRM just really pisses you off, do some research first. PLEASE do NOT turn this tread into a DRM flame fest! I think that, by now, we all know your opinions on the matter.

Just to clarify, I've seen no reports that Colonization uses Securom. I've seen posts on other boards from people who have contacted Firaxis about this. Firaxis has replied that the program does a CD check, but that's it. No Securom.

And thanks for all the impressions on the game. I'll be picking this one up.
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« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2008, 02:06:01 AM »

I got it from Steam, which has no manual.  I understood that beforehand and bought it anyway.  I just played 1 complete game from beginning until the end of game time and never was able to reach the point where I declare my independance.  I basically built up my cities, traded as much as possible, and tried my hand with the privateers (can sink other countries boats with impunity since they aren't considered part of your nation).

I'm missing a lot of what it is I'm supposed to be focussing on.

How do I get to the point where I can go up against my monarch?  How do I even know when I'm there?

I need a more basic walkthrough then the pop up hints the game gives.
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« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2008, 03:58:22 AM »

Quote from: DonD on September 25, 2008, 02:06:01 AM

I got it from Steam, which has no manual.  I understood that beforehand and bought it anyway.  I just played 1 complete game from beginning until the end of game time and never was able to reach the point where I declare my independance.  I basically built up my cities, traded as much as possible, and tried my hand with the privateers (can sink other countries boats with impunity since they aren't considered part of your nation).

I'm missing a lot of what it is I'm supposed to be focussing on.

How do I get to the point where I can go up against my monarch?  How do I even know when I'm there?

I need a more basic walkthrough then the pop up hints the game gives.

The in game Civpedia has as much if not more details then the skimpy manual does.  The manual isn't a bad way of getting an overview of things, but it's pretty short on specifics and references the Civpedia for details quite often.

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« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2008, 05:53:09 AM »

Some clarification:

The one reason I thought it used Securom is, when you don't put the CD in the slot and try to run, it gives you a Securom error telling you to put the CD in. Yes, the word Securom is on the error. Does this mean DRM, probably not.

As to what one is suppose to do, well, that is a bit hard to answer. My first game, as the French, I had tons of money and never got enough rebel sentiment to declare independence. You really MUST invest in liberty bells by about mid-game or so. It doesn't hurt to invest earlier, particularly if you have nearby Natives or other European powers, who will be cut off by your culture.

Now my second game, as the English (John Adams, who gets a liberty bell bonus), I got way past the 50% mark needed to declare independence. However, I got smashed by the kings GIANT expeditionary forces. It was a huge train wreck, much like the actual American WoI... only the French didn't come to save my rear.

One thing, and this comes from an unclear UI. On the Europe screen, there is a little dollar bill above the colonist rushing panel. You can buy ANYTHING from Europe with this and it is a BUTTON. I thought it was flavor for the rush box. Yeah... that would have helped. BTW privateers are a pain.

Having designated resource bases, at least early in the game, is a great way to go. Your main colony will initially be able to produce food for many colonists, so send some out to create lumber bases, or other raw material bases, and ship or wagon these back to your first colony. You can also send food to the initial one to create growth. Once trained farmers and fisherman are available to you, then you can begin making resource bases into whole cities, and expand the scope of you initial colony. In fact, having designated producers of things like tools and guns could be a HUGE help. Certainly horses, which have limited uses, can be bred in one designated spot without much of a fuss.

Also, remember that you CAN buy goods FROM Europe, it isn't just a place to sell your crap. Tools are inexpensive, even in packs of 100. You will probably be ok, at least initially, buying these from the King and not putting two or three men into tool production. Now, once you need tools for guns, then you may change this. Guns are more expensive, but, in a pinch, Europe can supply them. I'm not sure what trade goods are for, other than dealing with the natives... which I still think is worthless unless cut off from Europe.

Missions kick butt... especially if you are French. Free native troops, which can be trained in a native village to become a specialist, are invaluable. You can't make them into soldiers, though - but they free up other colonists for military duty.

Bael
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« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2008, 11:30:36 AM »

Anyone up to the challenge of an AAR?  Perhaps that might be all I need.  I've seen Tom Chicks, but I still need more.

I'm challenged that way.
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« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2008, 11:41:57 AM »

I just have this to say: Colonization still has that old magic. smile
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« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2008, 01:54:50 PM »

For you Steam types, manual can be found here:

http://cdn.steampowered.com/Manuals/16810/manual_english.pdf?t=1222304525
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« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2008, 08:31:20 PM »

So is there any DRM crap like SecuROM or Starforce on the retail disc for this game?  paranoid
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