Neverwinter

[Wargus]

VE: Are you using the same engine that you used for Champions Online and STO or is this something totally different?
Jack Emmert: It's the same engine.

You guys were saying something about cryptic not intentionally pushing crap out the door?

[Destructor]

VE: Are you using the same engine that you used for Champions Online and STO or is this something totally different?
Jack Emmert: It's the same engine.

You guys were saying something about cryptic not intentionally pushing crap out the door?

 

Yeah, the engine can do quite a bit, but to reuse it again? STO has some very obvious signs that it's using the CO's engine (and its limitations). I don't know if it should be used again without some heavy modifications.

[Arkon]

Not sure that STO was a good fit for the engine, but a party based RPG would work well with it I think.

[TiLT]

When did reusing an engine become evidence of "crap"? Here's a short list of selected titles that used engines from other games:

- Baldur's Gate 2, Planescape Torment, Icewind Dale.
- Half-Life.
- System Shock 2.
- Bioshock.
- The Witcher.
- Deus Ex.
- Fallout 3.
- Colonization.

[Wargus]

When did reusing an engine become evidence of "crap"? Here's a short list of selected titles that used engines from other games:

- Baldur's Gate 2, Planescape Torment, Icewind Dale.
- Half-Life.
- System Shock 2.
- Bioshock.
- The Witcher.
- Deus Ex.
- Fallout 3.
- Colonization.

Reusing engines became evidence of crap when the engine was crap to begin with.  None of the games you listed have that issue. I will concede, however, that the engine is better suited to an RPG than to STO and that they may have ironed out many of the issues with it.  That would require me to give some credit to cryptic, something they don't deserve. 

[Aganazer]

The graphics engine and server architecture were always the least of Cryptic's problems.

No need for separate isolated servers. No major lag issues. Client performance is fine. Can handle a huge variety of character models. It can handle some nice particle effects.

Its always been the systems they implement within the game engine that have sucked.

[Wargus]

I wonder if they'll be so cheap as to run it simultaneously on the same servers as STO and CO like they did with STO? 

[Destructor]

The graphics engine and server architecture were always the least of Cryptic's problems.

No need for separate isolated servers. No major lag issues. Client performance is fine. Can handle a huge variety of character models. It can handle some nice particle effects.

Its always been the systems they implement within the game engine that have sucked.

Okay, you have a point there. CoX has a hard limit of 32 (I think) players + mobs on screen at any one time before it starts removing those that aren't right next to you. Looks really goofy when you have an alien raid going on when there's FAR more mobs and players in the area than what you can see.

CO doesn't have said problems at least in that aspect. They just have some issues otherwise.

And Wargus, I sure as heck hope not. That was by far the absolute DUMBEST thing they've EVER done as a company (if not any company period). And when CO or STO would crash (as both were far from crash-free both in beta and at launch) it would bring down the other game.

[Wargus]

Don't get me wrong - I want them to succeed. I love D&D, however I don't trust them. They wasted my money, and until they do something to ear my respect again (and I don't know how they possibly can without writing me a check for both STO, CO and the months I played) I'll continue to piss & moan about how bad they are.  They are on the same plane of hell as Verant & Sony with Star Wars Galaxies. Sony at least has some redeeming features (they've kept Vanguard alive and managed to turn it around as far as game quality).

[CeeKay]

they're calling this a co-op Dragon Age. 

[CeeKay]

after many moons:  a teaser.


was that the Witch King?

[Blackjack]

after many moons:  a teaser.

was that the Witch King?

No, that was the CEO of the Chinese company that bought Cryptic.  

IGN E3 interview:
http://pc.ign.com/articles/117/1172727p1.html

Those who remember the established style of combat in BioWare's Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate will find a different, more fluid style of gameplay in Cryptic's game. "There's no pause-timing," said Velasquez. "We are interested in maintaining the tactical D&D experience but it is not a pause and calculate and watch it unfold kind of gameplay experience."

Boo hoo. 

If you can't manage to find players to help out on your travels, non-player controlled henchmen can be picked up to fight alongside you. "You'll have control [of them], fairly simple stuff, just like 'go over here' or 'attack this target' or 'defend this target.' Those are all available right now with the henchman controls. In regards to what types and classes they fulfill, to start we're going to focus on the classes that round out the player classes. We're making sure we have a tanky man-at-arms that can protect you if you're the Cleric, a DPS-y war Wizard in case you're playing the tank. Those aren't necessarily the classes that we have, but they fill out the roles that you may need based on the classes that we have available."

The main quests in the game will be soloable with henchmen help, so no need to find others to reach the end, though there will be certain objectives that only a group will be able to take on. "We have scaling encounters based on how many players are on your team," added Velasquez. "If you go into a mission with just yourself and some henchmen, it'll be set to be the appropriate level of difficulty for you. But if you add in two or three other player characters, it'll scale up appropriately."

There's some talk about content creation tools. I assume there's some overlap with STO's mission creator stuff.

[Razgon]

More fluid style of gameplay = action clickfest? It's neverwinter, aerodynamized!

[CeeKay]

More fluid style of gameplay = action clickfest? It's neverwinter, aerodynamicized!

you left out a couple of letters    but yeah, that's how it sounds to me too.

[kronovan]

If they mean by more fluid style that it'll be something like D&D Online, I'm all for it. I personally love the combat play mechanics for DDO. Like others here I do have my doubts about the dev studio building this. That's based soley on what I've read and heard though, as I've never played any of their MMO's. Will they finally find their groove working with a more limitied co-op mplay model? I'm thinking no, but I like Neverwinter so much that I'm willing to remain cautiously optimistic.

[CeeKay]

new preview.  The Foundry?  interesting.

[Blackjack]

Saw on Blue's they've settled the dispute over the D&D brand, with Atari having to license rights from Hasbro.

With Cryptic's acquisition by Perfect Worlds completed, the latter states it wants to invest more in the game (a good thing I say!), but it will push the release back quite a bit to late 2012:
http://www.wizards.com/Company/Press.aspx?x=wz/press/54&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

HASBRO AND ATARI RESOLVE DUNGEONS & DRAGONS RIGHTS DISPUTE

August 15, 2011 (Renton, WA) – Wizards of the Coast LLC, Hasbro, Inc. (NASDAQ: HAS) and Atari, S.A. announced today the settlement and resolution of the complaint against Atari, S.A. and the counterclaims filed by Atari, S.A. against Hasbro, Inc. filed in December 2009 in regards to the Dungeons & Dragons brand.

Digital licensing rights for Dungeons & Dragons have been returned to Hasbro. Atari will continue to develop and market several games under license from Hasbro and Wizards, including the #1 Xbox LIVE® hit Dungeons & Dragons: Daggerdale and the upcoming Heroes of Neverwinter for Facebook. Additional settlement details remain private.

In addition, the acquisition of Cryptic Studios by Perfect World Entertainment Inc. from Atari in July 2011 has delayed the Neverwinter PC Game scheduled for release later this year. Perfect World will be investing in a more immersive experience for release in late 2012.

I know this isn't an MMO -- I still think its wise to get away from SWTOR's presumed Dec. 2011 release and possibly Diablo III's release (though I still suspect it won't be out this year). Possibly Torchlight 2 as well.

Although who knows what it will be competing for attention with in 2012.

[CeeKay]

some changes have happened:

That's right, Neverwinter is shifting from the co-operative multiplayer game that was announced last year and into full-fledged, free-to-play MMO territory. In fact, it's shifting towards the action end of the MMO spectrum.

so, I guess this could be moved to MMOville.

[TiLT]

So they decided to get rid of the stuff that established a link to the old Neverwinter Nights games? Good for them. But not for me. I'm out unless they do something seriously impressive in the future.

[baelthazar]

some changes have happened:

That's right, Neverwinter is shifting from the co-operative multiplayer game that was announced last year and into full-fledged, free-to-play MMO territory. In fact, it's shifting towards the action end of the MMO spectrum.

so, I guess this could be moved to MMOville.

Puke! I want an updated RPG with the new D&D rulesset and awesome D&D character development! None of this MMORPG crap.

[Razgon]

Oh, you mean a streamlined multi-platform FPS!? Of course you'll get that, not to worry!

[Blackjack]

Oh, you mean a streamlined multi-platform FPS!? Of course you'll get that, not to worry!

Cryptic to this point has not shipped a single console game, even though Champions was shown at trade shows to work on a console just fine. Presumably MS and Sony didn't want it "poaching" their console gaming networks without paying for it. And Perfect World is strictly into PC F2Ps, not console titles. So I wouldn't go rushing into any multi-platform assumptions just yet.   In fact, now that it's an MMO (F2P or not, MS/Sony would still probably charge them an arm and a leg to offer the game on their networks), I think you can pretty much squash any notion of this as a console title.

As far as the rule set, the article mentions that:

In fact, it's shifting towards the action end of the MMO spectrum. Transferring a Dungeons & Dragons universe into an action setting might sound strange to D&D veterans, but it's been done before with some of the Baldur's Gate games. The 4th Edition of D&D also has some new rules that lend itself well to action games, which is exactly why Neverwinter is using 4th Edition as its ruleset.

[Razgon]

Yeah, I know - I was being eh..fastidious, is that the word?

As for actioning up the D&D branch, DDO does that quite well, actually, so I know it *can* work - I just have little faith that others can do something as well as Turbine managed to do their D&D conversion

[CeeKay]

Yeah, I know - I was being eh..fastidious, is that the word?

you were:

1.Very attentive to and concerned about accuracy and detail.
2.Very concerned about matters of cleanliness.

?

[hepcat]

Yeah, I know - I was being eh..fastidious, is that the word?

you were:

1.Very attentive to and concerned about accuracy and detail.
2.Very concerned about matters of cleanliness.

?

Joke all you want, but the Danish guy's better in our native tongue than you and I are most of the time.   

[kronovan]

Yeah, I know - I was being eh..fastidious, is that the word?

As for actioning up the D&D branch, DDO does that quite well, actually, so I know it *can* work - I just have little faith that others can do something as well as Turbine managed to do their D&D conversion

As much as I'd love an online Neverwinter game that uses the DDO play mechanics, I doubt you'll see anything close to that from Cryptic. I quite like their Champions Online, which is very Actiony. If they did something close to that I'd play if for at least a month or 2.

[Aganazer]

I doubt these changes are quite as bad as the announcement makes them sound. I bet the biggest difference is the switch from "buy to play" to a cash shop. While I hate the nickel and dime feeling of a cash shop, I can overlook it for a good game.

As long as it still has "the forge" content designer I am still interested.

I really enjoyed Vindictus and always wished it was more D&D-like with traps and skill checks. It sounds like that is exactly what Neverwinter will be like.

[CeeKay]

Founders package details.  yes, for 200 bucks you too can be not-Drizzt Do'Urden!


(plus could this get bumped over to the MMO forum since it's a MMO now?)

[Blackjack]

If you were a lifetime Star Trek Online suck... er, I mean subscriber, keep an eye out for an e-mail like this:

Thank you for supporting Cryptic Studios by being a lifetime subscriber for Star Trek Online! As one of the perks, you are qualified to participate in the second Beta Weekend for their upcoming action MMORPG, Neverwinter! Among the available content this weekend will be four classes, seven races, and a level cap of 40!

Neverwinter will be available to play starting March 8th at 12pm PST, and then closing on March 10th at 11:59pm PST.

Your access has been applied directly to your account, so you can download and be ready to play when the servers open!

I will be just heading back into town after an overnight visit with my brother, so I should be back in time to check it out.

I've pretty much lost interest in gaming, but I think I will myself to check it out for a couple days.   This is assuming I can actually download the client, or login, or anything, which you never know with beta weekends.

Details here:
Neverwinter Beta Weekend Two Details
http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=828051

Were you selected in this weekend's Beta test? Click here to find out! Be sure to download the Neverwinter game client early and patch so you're ready to log in immediately! If you were not selected, another way to gain entry is to purchase a Neverwinter Founder's Pack for guaranteed access to all future Beta Weekends. If you can't wait any longer, you can also purchase a Hero of the North Founder's Pack or Guardian of Neverwinter Pack while the Beta Weekend is happening and gain immediate access.

I'll try to wipe away my jaundiced cynicism that it's probably like some unholy amalgamation of Champions and STO, with D&D skins and textures... 

[Destructor]

Download now if you're in, everyone. It should be available and it should go relatively quick. Thursday morning is patch day for all Cryptic games, so it'll be slower then. But otherwise they tend to have a lot of free bandwith as long as you don't wait until Friday.

And short of a few certain moves and animations, NW doesn't feel like CO/STO at all. Each game has a really different feel and look to them.

[Blackjack]

As I commiserated with Destructor last night, I'm only able to start downloading the beta if I disable anti-virus, and the download speed was approximately the speed of a 1200 baud dial-up modem. I half expected to hear a "SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEcccHHHHHHHH.....CHING!" connection sound from my PC case. I'll check it later to see if it's working any better for me.

[ydejin]

As I commiserated with Destructor last night, I'm only able to start downloading the beta if I disable anti-virus, and the download speed was approximately the speed of a 1200 baud dial-up modem. I half expected to hear a "SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEcccHHHHHHHH.....CHING!" connection sound from my PC case. I'll check it later to see if it's working any better for me.

The download was painfully slow for me too.  I did end up getting it all downloaded overnight though.  There's also a patch, so you might want to try logging in now to initiate the patch download and install -- although the patch was actually pretty small, IIRC maybe on the order of about 5 minutes to download.

[CeeKay]

hey, look, a beta key from IGN.  I guess I'll give it a shot this weekend.

[CeeKay]

the download is moving pretty quickly now.  started at 10:20 pm and 40 minutes later I'm almost done.

[CeeKay]

damn, liking this more than I expected. think I'm going to spring for a founders pack, just debating between $59.99 or $199.99...

[Crawley]

Is this a beta you can comment on it or still NDA? Ended up getting in since I stupidly purchased the lifetime for Champions way back when.

[Azhag]

There have certainly been enough "impression" articles on gaming sites...

[TiLT]

Before this weekend, there was no NDA except for those playing the alpha version. To my surprise, I noticed that there actually is an NDA now in the second beta weekend. Not that it matters much, but it's there.

Got to level 6 yesterday, and it was fun. Too bad all the Foundry missions that were present yesterday weren't all that good. I think I missed the Foundry beta signup by two hours, but I know I could have done a much better job than any of those other Foundry creators. Sigh... (yeah, I'm saying that in public. You can all ridicule me if I can't make anything good after I actually get access to the thing )

[rittchard]

So you guys prefer this thread?  Anyone else playing?  I'm having a blast thus far even playing almost all solo.  It's not that there's anything unique going on here, but the combat definitely feels more action packed (particularly against a boss) and the zones feel more "alive".  There's a consistent feeling of being rewarded and the pacing feels good (so far).  I think they have deliberately made a simpler game (relative to many recent MMOs), but have successfully focused on doing a really good job with that, rather than trying to be all things to all people. 

Rittchard@rittch68 (me)
Jenn Lighttouch@carverllewis  (CeeKay)