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CeeKay
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« on: August 09, 2010, 12:02:49 AM »

apparently Atari has been busy registering websites:

visitneverwinter.com
neverwinter-game.com
neverwintergame.com
play-neverwinter.com
playneverwinter.com
save-neverwinter.com
saveneverwinter.com

at GenCon they also mentioned they have a video game announcement coming that they couldn't talk about.  personally I'd like to return to the setting, as long as they keep it a RPG like NWN1 & 2 were.
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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2010, 04:42:46 AM »

When D&D 4th Edition was released, Hasbro (I think it was them. It gets confusing) kept talking about how they had a 4th Edition D&D computer game right around the corner. That's two years ago, so something had better start getting ready for the public. On the other hand, nobody seems to agree these days who actually controls the license, and the companies are suing each other back and forth.
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« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2010, 12:02:04 PM »

The series should have stopped with Bioware.
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« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2010, 01:37:57 PM »

NWN2 was fairly underrated. I think that if they do it up right (especially the user content creation tools and sharing) a NWN3 would be quite welcome given the dearth of pen-&-paper style rpg's on the pc anymore.
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« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2010, 01:53:53 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on August 09, 2010, 01:37:57 PM

NWN2 was fairly underrated. I think that if they do it up right (especially the user content creation tools and sharing) a NWN3 would be quite welcome given the dearth of pen-&-paper style rpg's on the pc anymore.

I tried 3 times to get into NWN2, and could never make it past the 5-hour mark.  The official campaign was incredibly dull...even moreso than the first.
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« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2010, 01:56:17 PM »

Expansion was good, wasnt it? I like NWN games..good fun, and a throwback to earlier rpgs in style.
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« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2010, 02:08:38 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on August 09, 2010, 01:56:17 PM

Expansion was good, wasnt it? I like NWN games..good fun, and a throwback to earlier rpgs in style.

once you got the mod that got rid of the Spirit Meter.  This news actually got me to re-install NWN1 & 2 for re-plays.
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« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2010, 05:38:39 PM »

The control system killed NWN2 for me, also, the best module developers from NWN seemed to have moved on so that part was also worse. The best NWN campaigns were user developed in my book.
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« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2010, 07:12:16 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on August 09, 2010, 01:53:53 PM

Quote from: Farscry on August 09, 2010, 01:37:57 PM

NWN2 was fairly underrated. I think that if they do it up right (especially the user content creation tools and sharing) a NWN3 would be quite welcome given the dearth of pen-&-paper style rpg's on the pc anymore.

I tried 3 times to get into NWN2, and could never make it past the 5-hour mark.  The official campaign was incredibly dull...even moreso than the first.

Heh, I couldn't disagree more on the point about the official campaign from NWN1. It was truly one of the worst computer rpg campaigns I've ever tried to play. biggrin

That said, I agree with the consensus that it wasn't the official campaigns that made either game worthwhile, it was the user mods. The best NWN stuff was user-developed, and I'd love to see a new NWN that basically takes what NWN did and expands on it. smile
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« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2010, 07:23:56 PM »

I'd be shocked if it wasn't an MMO.  D&D Online is starting to make some money with it's FTP model and a lot of people would jump at the chance of seeing an MMO version of the Forgotten Realms.  Not to mention that Neverwinter was the location of the original D&D MMO.
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« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2010, 07:27:55 PM »

Quote from: Sarkus on August 09, 2010, 07:23:56 PM

I'd be shocked if it wasn't an MMO.  D&D Online is starting to make some money with it's FTP model and a lot of people would jump at the chance of seeing an MMO version of the Forgotten Realms.  Not to mention that Neverwinter was the location of the original D&D MMO.

I would be shocked if it is an MMO. The investment is just too big, and the D&D fan base just isn't large enough to support that on its own. Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast also got cold feet from D&D Online. I don't think they want to repeat that any time soon. Too risky.
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« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2010, 08:00:46 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on August 09, 2010, 07:27:55 PM

Quote from: Sarkus on August 09, 2010, 07:23:56 PM

I'd be shocked if it wasn't an MMO.  D&D Online is starting to make some money with it's FTP model and a lot of people would jump at the chance of seeing an MMO version of the Forgotten Realms.  Not to mention that Neverwinter was the location of the original D&D MMO.

I would be shocked if it is an MMO. The investment is just too big, and the D&D fan base just isn't large enough to support that on its own. Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast also got cold feet from D&D Online. I don't think they want to repeat that any time soon. Too risky.

And the investment in single player isn't a big risk?  And this isn't about Hasbro/WotC, it's about Atari since they are the ones who control the video game IP.  It didn't cost them anything for D&D Online because that was financed by Turbine.  All Atari did was sit back and see what kind of profits they got from the licensing agreement.  That wasn't much up front, but D&D Online has really taken off in terms of popularity and profitability since they went FTP (which is why Turbine is taking LOTR Online in that direction now).  I can see Atari thinking that an even bigger piece of the pie would be appealing, especially since D&D Online doesn't use what is really D&D's most valuable property, the Forgotten Realms setting.
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« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2010, 08:08:15 PM »

Quote from: Sarkus on August 09, 2010, 08:00:46 PM

Quote from: TiLT on August 09, 2010, 07:27:55 PM

Quote from: Sarkus on August 09, 2010, 07:23:56 PM

I'd be shocked if it wasn't an MMO.  D&D Online is starting to make some money with it's FTP model and a lot of people would jump at the chance of seeing an MMO version of the Forgotten Realms.  Not to mention that Neverwinter was the location of the original D&D MMO.

I would be shocked if it is an MMO. The investment is just too big, and the D&D fan base just isn't large enough to support that on its own. Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast also got cold feet from D&D Online. I don't think they want to repeat that any time soon. Too risky.

And the investment in single player isn't a big risk?  And this isn't about Hasbro/WotC, it's about Atari since they are the ones who control the video game IP.  It didn't cost them anything for D&D Online because that was financed by Turbine.  All Atari did was sit back and see what kind of profits they got from the licensing agreement.  That wasn't much up front, but D&D Online has really taken off in terms of popularity and profitability since they went FTP (which is why Turbine is taking LOTR Online in that direction now).  I can see Atari thinking that an even bigger piece of the pie would be appealing, especially since D&D Online doesn't use what is really D&D's most valuable property, the Forgotten Realms setting.

I think Hasbro would beg to differ about Atari owning anything that has to do with D&D. As I mentioned above, there's lawsuits all over the place, and Hasbro certainly doesn't want Atari to have the license, at least the last time I checked.

And yes, single player is a big risk. However, a MMO is a much, much, much bigger risk. You can develop a single player game with a reasonably sized team and get it from design to market in 2-3 years, then forget about it. A MMO takes longer to develop, requires a considerably larger team, and demands servers, a maintenance and patching team, GMs, community managers, developers for new content, artists, musicians, etc. The costs don't stop when development is over, and they can't pull the plug without hurting their own reputation, even if the game does badly. It's an incredibly large cost, and only rarely does it succeed. Hasbro's last attempt failed (in their eyes) with D&D Online, which is why they won't pursue that again. In fact, DDO is most likely the sole reason why we haven't seen any other real D&D games in years.

So forget about the MMO. There's D&D Online, another reason why there's going to be no other D&D MMORPG for a while (after all, why would Hasbro invest all that money only to compete with themselves?).
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« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2010, 08:16:32 PM »

A year ago Atari acquired Cryptic (MMO developer) and legitmate sources, like this Variety piece, said a NWN MMO was in the works.  So I'm not going write off the possibility of an MMO.  And this thread started because it was Atari, not Hasbro/WotC, that talked about an announcement of a D&D game coming.  Legal issues aside, as of right now they still control the IP.
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« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2010, 09:42:39 PM »

NWN2 single player gets really good toward the end of Chapter 1.  It's a slog until then but worth it after that. 
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« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2010, 10:34:12 PM »

I haven't played a ton of 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons, but the time I've spent with it so far make me really excited about its potential as a CRPG.  The only concern is have is that every character has so many useful actions in any given round, I can't imagine trying to manage all the different At-Will, Encounter, and Utility powers for a full party outside of a Temple of Elemental Evil-style turn-based tactics simulation.

I'd *love* to see a Neverwinter Nights game crossed with ToEE's combat system with a 4th Edition ruleset, particularly if it was written and produced by J.E. Sawyer.... thumbsup

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« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2010, 12:11:26 AM »

Good point, AA.

Plus, think about this from a history perspective. There were a TON of AD&D games (the Gold Box series, and NWN on AOL), 3rd Edition (Baldur's Gate, NWN), and 3.5 (BG2, NWN2, DDO). 4th...has had nothing.

Plus, as said, it would make no sense at all to make another MMO based on the D&D property as they would be competing with themselves. It'll be interesting to see what happens with SWG when SW:TOR comes out (I'm guessing an immediate shut-down).

I find that a 4th Edition BG/NWN/DA:O style game is what they have planned, if anything. Not a MMO.

And I think that's the most acronyms I've ever put into a single post. biggrin
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« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2010, 01:28:43 AM »

Why would DDO be viewed as competition for a new D&D MMO?  DDO used the Eberron setting and 3.5 edition rules.  If anything, WoTC would probably prefer a new game that promotes the current rules, not those from years ago. 

I just don't see "competition" being a deal killer in terms of a new D&D Forgotten Realms based MMO.
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« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2010, 04:48:23 AM »

Quote from: Sarkus on August 10, 2010, 01:28:43 AM

Why would DDO be viewed as competition for a new D&D MMO?  DDO used the Eberron setting and 3.5 edition rules.  If anything, WoTC would probably prefer a new game that promotes the current rules, not those from years ago. 

I just don't see "competition" being a deal killer in terms of a new D&D Forgotten Realms based MMO.

Well, it's not the setting really. It's the D&D rules. The amount of people who are attracted towards a computer game simply because it's D&D is relatively small. The people playing DDO are likely to either think "hey, a new D&D MMORPG. Screw this, I'm going to play the other one instead" or "I'm already playing a D&D MMORPG. Why should I play another?". Setting is a smaller factor here than the rules.

For people who have no particular interest in D&D, the setting is the most important part. I would argue that the Forgotten Realms is a too generic and weak setting to succeed very well outside of the core fans, so we're back to square one and the rules. It just doesn't sound like a good idea.

It's all a bunch of speculation and gut feelings, but this is mine. A NWN MMORPG would probably do reasonably well, but it wouldn't be a big success, and even if it were, it would more or less kill DDO.
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« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2010, 05:49:09 AM »

DDO has well over a million subscribers by now, by all accounts - that makes it one of the most succesfull MMO's out there, so I seriously doubt it will fold just because another MMO shows up, be it fantasy, D&D or anything else.
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« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2010, 06:18:25 AM »

Quote from: Razgon on August 10, 2010, 05:49:09 AM

DDO has well over a million subscribers by now, by all accounts - that makes it one of the most succesfull MMO's out there, so I seriously doubt it will fold just because another MMO shows up, be it fantasy, D&D or anything else.

Is "subscribers" really accurate here? How many of those have actually (or ever will) paid money to play the game? How many actively subscribe in that they pay a monthly fee?

Success in Free To Play MMORPGs is a bit more complex than just counting the number of active players.

Edit: I know DDO has become a success for Turbine after it went F2P, but 1 million subscribers sounds a bit much.
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« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2010, 06:48:32 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on August 10, 2010, 06:18:25 AM

Quote from: Razgon on August 10, 2010, 05:49:09 AM

DDO has well over a million subscribers by now, by all accounts - that makes it one of the most succesfull MMO's out there, so I seriously doubt it will fold just because another MMO shows up, be it fantasy, D&D or anything else.

Is "subscribers" really accurate here? How many of those have actually (or ever will) paid money to play the game? How many actively subscribe in that they pay a monthly fee?

Success in Free To Play MMORPGs is a bit more complex than just counting the number of active players.

Edit: I know DDO has become a success for Turbine after it went F2P, but 1 million subscribers sounds a bit much.

I'll see if I can dig out the articles I've seen on this, but yeah, over 1 million subscribers is the number being thrown around, which is 5 times the number of games like LOTRO and AoC from all appearences. (And 50 times the numbers of Vanguard, I'm afraid :-D ).  Right now, take it as second-hand information, but I'll dig out what I can.
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« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2010, 11:24:51 AM »

Gamespot has the reveal.  The game is from Cryptic and is a "cooperative RPG" rather than an MMORPG.

Quote
The game will instead focus on cooperative play, requiring players to log into a server to start a session and encouraging players to tackle the adventure together. Neverwinter will give you the option to go solo if you prefer, but this will be a much harder way to play. The game will also feature editing tools that will let you create your own custom content and adventures, and it will offer an all-new story that ties into a new series of novels penned by author R.A. Salvatore.

Nothing that interests me, unfortunately frown
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« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2010, 11:44:44 AM »

Well, this is certainly intriguing. Not at all what I (or anyone else, it seems) expected. I'm glad to see that there will be a quest editor of some kind, though it's unclear how detailed it will be. If it only allows us to make MMORPG-like quests, it won't be much fun. If it gives us the power to make things at the level of the original NWN, it will be much more interesting.

They're doing themselves a huge disservice by only including 5 classes though. That's just not enough by far.
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« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2010, 01:42:52 PM »

It's being worked on by CO/STO developer Cryptic Studios (which has little talent, IMHO)? Lovely. Way to quite likely bork such a great idea by giving it to them.

Quote
Fighter. Wizard. Rogue. Ranger. Cleric.

You can't do a 4th Edition D&D game with just those classes.

Quote
In our first release, we'll be doing the classic humans, elves, and dwarves--as well as a few special ones that I won't mention just now.

And don't even think of releasing a 4th Edition game with just that racial selection.

Bloody hell - this game is doomed already.
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« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2010, 01:50:07 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on August 23, 2010, 01:42:52 PM

Bloody hell - this game is doomed already.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge it yet. The way I'm reading the details so far, this could well be a long-term project modeled after the success Wizards of the Coast has had with their D&D Insider subscriptions and the software that goes along with it. This means that new classes, races, feats, powers, game systems, and so on would get added regularly for those who maintain a subscription. The idea seems to be to appeal to a broader base than the regular hardcore gamer, presenting this as a way to play real D&D with friends using real, custom scenarios without having to spend hours at a time.

I may very well be wrong, but this is how I read it so far. It'll be interesting to see what they're actually planning.
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« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2010, 02:11:55 PM »

This is exactly what I thought it would be. I think it sounds awesome for many reasons.

1. The original NWN and NWN2 were great, but they needed a more accessible way to share adventures and find groups. With Cryptics MMOG background I would assume that this will be nicely integrated into the game.

2. Cryptic sucks at making open worlds. I don't want this game to be another attempt at an open world game. It would be another disappointment if it were. Coop adventures are instanced by nature and this falls right into one of Cryptic's few strengths.

3. Its 4th edition, which is better suited to computer games than any other edition of D&D. I was wondering when we would start seeing 4E games.

The first time I heard the rumors, which is a long time ago now, I knew that the only way this could be a success would be if it had a good adventure editor. That will bridge the gap that DDO left, making this game have the potential to overcome Cryptics greatest weakness, a lack of good content.
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« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2010, 02:22:51 PM »

Have to say, nothing about what's been revealed so far gives me any confidence in the game giving me a compelling reason to play it over DDO or the previous NWN titles.
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« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2010, 02:34:09 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on August 23, 2010, 02:22:51 PM

Have to say, nothing about what's been revealed so far gives me any confidence in the game giving me a compelling reason to play it over DDO or the previous NWN titles.

Answering purely on a hunch, I think it will have some compelling reasons to play it over both of those games. Of course it all depends on the implementation and how well Cryptic plays to their strengths while minimizing their weaknesses.

The advantage it will have over DDO is the adventure editor. With the right tools and rating system it could potentially have an immense amount of interesting content. Also, designing is a game unto itself. There is no creative outlet in DDO beyond character design.

The advantage it will have over NWN is mostly accessibility. No need to download adventures from obscure websites as it will most likely be integrated right into the game. There is no need to work through confusing firewall settings, port redirections, and all that technical garbage that prevents most people from hosting a NWN game. Even besides that, IMO the NWN multiplayer gameplay was clunky as hell compared to any MMOG.
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« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2010, 07:53:05 PM »

My experience with the current Cryptic (vs. the team that did City of Heroes, and is mostly still with Paragon Studios working on that) is that they're not devoid of talent, they just don't seem to know how to develop an MMO that isn't borked up at launch. Then they lose all their launch player base, and spend an inordinate amount of time trying to fix and improve their game.

Though I feel I was tricked by falsely positive first impressions into a lifetime subscription on STO that I never use, I admit to being somewhat impressed that they've spent so much time trying, and trying, and trying to improve Champions and STO rather than just flushing them down the toilet and starting over on something else.

So who knows? Maybe NWN and a non-MMO format is what they need to play to their strengths instead of their weaknesses.

Or maybe it's Titantic, and their final end-game as a developer.  paranoid

I would have more confidence if Atari wasn't involved as publisher. imho, Atari has shown no patience as publisher, and chances are they will yet again force Cryptic to push a buggy, half-baked game out the door and further ruin Cryptic's reputation. A different publisher might work more closely with Cryptic, and show some occasional patience, rather than "shove it out the door, and then spend months and years trying to fix it."  disgust That's my glass half full view. The pessimistic view is that Cryptic's a slow, clumsy developer who can't really meet their milestones. Maybe behind the scenes Atari gives them lots of time and they just don't get things done fast enough.  icon_neutral Maybe...  they're both screwed up.   retard
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« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2010, 09:23:31 PM »

Quote from: Aganazer on August 23, 2010, 02:34:09 PM

The advantage it will have over DDO is the adventure editor. With the right tools and rating system it could potentially have an immense amount of interesting content. Also, designing is a game unto itself. There is no creative outlet in DDO beyond character design.

Does Cryptic have the team that created the adventure editor in City of Heroes? Or is that team still with Paragon Studios? Because I'll agree, that editor showed a lot of promise for a D&D-style game.

As for the comparison with NWN, I both agree and disagree. Yes, a centralized hub accessible through the game itself to acquire and share modules would be a step up. However, the NWN editor was incredibly robust and powerful for something so user-friendly. I don't see Cryptic topping that.
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« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2010, 10:33:04 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on August 23, 2010, 07:53:05 PM

I would have more confidence if Atari wasn't involved as publisher. imho, Atari has shown no patience as publisher, and chances are they will yet again force Cryptic to push a buggy, half-baked game out the door and further ruin Cryptic's reputation. A different publisher might work more closely with Cryptic, and show some occasional patience, rather than "shove it out the door, and then spend months and years trying to fix it."

It's always easy to blame the publisher but unless you are the inside you don't really know who is pushing what out the door and who is promising what by a certain date. 
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« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2010, 12:49:04 AM »

actually Im interested to see what they do with this.  5 player online co-op sounds like it could be a nice niche for them.  With the prospects of user developed content, the potential is  massive.  It sounds like they are taking the pnp game and giving you the chance to get together with a group of friends and run thru a campaign online.  I can see that they are limiting the classes somewhat but perhaps it is thier intent to add additional content in the future.  Plus depending on how robust the tools they release are its possible that a lot of what they are leaving out can be worked in through users.  It will be interesting to see how this all works out but I plan on remaining optomistic until they prove me wrong, instead of shredding this thing before I have any solid reason to.
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« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2010, 01:18:24 AM »

Quote from: Farscry on August 23, 2010, 09:23:31 PM

Quote from: Aganazer on August 23, 2010, 02:34:09 PM

The advantage it will have over DDO is the adventure editor. With the right tools and rating system it could potentially have an immense amount of interesting content. Also, designing is a game unto itself. There is no creative outlet in DDO beyond character design.
Does Cryptic have the team that created the adventure editor in City of Heroes? Or is that team still with Paragon Studios? Because I'll agree, that editor showed a lot of promise for a D&D-style game.

AFAIK, everybody but like 2 people (Statesman and one other) stayed with City of Heroes and formed Paragon Studios when NCSoft decided that they wanted to buy the game up. Those remaining kept the Cryptic name (why they can get away with 'done by the same devs that did City of Heroes') and made CO and STO.

So no, it's not the same team.

The part that worries me most about Neverwinter? This is the same team that has the STAR TREK license of all people, and look at how STO ended up. The only nerdier and more rabid fanbase who jump at every new game is the Star Wars crew.

They've had two games which have done quite poorly, and now they have the rights for the first 4th Edition game? I don't have high hopes at all simply due to their previous 'successes', and this is why I'm complaining so much.

On the flip side, look at Rocksteady Studios. They've made exactly two games so far - one, the lots of fun Urban Chaos: Riot Response. And then they did the critically acclaimed Batman: Arkham Asylum. So if a company can turn around like that, maybe Cryptic can do the same. I just don't have high hopes at all.
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« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2010, 02:00:37 AM »

here's an interview about Neverwinter from Massivley.
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« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2010, 04:33:25 PM »

Quote from: morlac on August 23, 2010, 10:33:04 PM

Quote from: Blackjack on August 23, 2010, 07:53:05 PM

I would have more confidence if Atari wasn't involved as publisher. imho, Atari has shown no patience as publisher, and chances are they will yet again force Cryptic to push a buggy, half-baked game out the door and further ruin Cryptic's reputation. A different publisher might work more closely with Cryptic, and show some occasional patience, rather than "shove it out the door, and then spend months and years trying to fix it."

It's always easy to blame the publisher but unless you are the inside you don't really know who is pushing what out the door and who is promising what by a certain date. 
I choose to blame Atari cause there's 5 million people on the Internet yelling "Cryptic sucks! Nyah!"  icon_razz I seem to be the only person on earth blaming Atari.

I choose to be different, and not to believe Cryptic is purposely pushing half-baked games out the door with 2-weeks of open beta testing and constantly besmirching their own reputation. If in fact that is all their own idea and all their own fault, then chances are they are not a company destined to be around much longer.  paranoid

Emmert keeps hawking their line that their "game creation tools" let them create MMOs faster than other companies and crank them out, so to speak. So maybe it really is their idea to crank things out too quickly and then spend months trying desperately to repair their games' reputation while the launch subscribers run away in droves. If that really is their model, I feel sorry for Cryptic.

Back on topic! Ten Ton Hammer has Q&A with Jack Emmert about NWN...
http://www.tentonhammer.com/neverwinter/interviews/jack-emmert-aug-2010
*Below is an excellent "out of context" quote. It's amazing what you can do by leaving out the ensuing sentences.  icon_smile
Quote
Ten Ton Hammer: Many fans will be anxious to know what lessons you’ve learned from Champions Online and Star Trek Online. How will Neverwinter preserve the good things you’ve learned and correct some of the things that didn’t go as planned?

Jack Emmert: Right now, our goal is to create a great game, and we’re really trying to change the pattern we had with Star Trek Online and Champions Online.
Ba dump bump.  smirk

"In context," he seems to mean they're focusing more on content details and less on trying to pack a zillion features into the game engine itself.
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« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2010, 04:46:50 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on August 24, 2010, 02:00:37 AM

here's an interview about Neverwinter from Massivley.

I like Jack's tone in that interview. Cryptic has definitely been humbled and now they are the underdog. Assuming the company doesn't crumble around them, its a favorable position to be in.
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« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2010, 04:15:03 AM »

Quote from: Aganazer on August 24, 2010, 04:46:50 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on August 24, 2010, 02:00:37 AM

here's an interview about Neverwinter from Massivley.

I like Jack's tone in that interview. Cryptic has definitely been humbled and now they are the underdog. Assuming the company doesn't crumble around them, its a favorable position to be in.

How so? They've proven twice in rapid succession that they don't have even the most basic understanding of how to build a online game so now they are magically competent enough to succeed?  Sorry for the snarkiness - it isn't about you, I just really dislike Cryptic.

Quoting Jack:
Quote
Coming into the launch of STO and Champions, I made sure we had something for everyone. Here was the problem. By following that philosophy, nothing was polished. We ended up having lots of half-done features in some quarters.

Nonsense. They didn't have even the basics of what is considered a vanilla MMO for these games.  Heck, STO was not only not complete, but one of the primary playable factions at launch (Klingon's) wasn't complete - they hadn't even finished implementing all of the graphics for the ships or the station and hadn't even finished even the most basic of balancing.They had higher levels locked late into beta, not because they were fleshing them out, but because content wasn't finished or in many cases written at all for them.  Heck, Champions was essentially modernized copy of CoH and they still got it wrong.

The only way this game will run from my machine is if they give it to me.  Cryptic has earned my enmity and will have to eat a LOT of crow and prove themselves before I pay for another one of their games.
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« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2010, 03:47:23 PM »

Quote from: Wargus on August 26, 2010, 04:15:03 AM


The only way this game will run from my machine is if they give it to me.  Cryptic has earned my enmity and will have to eat a LOT of crow and prove themselves before I pay for another one of their games.

But it's all Atari's fault!  smile

In regards to Blackjack's response....

I agree I do not think Cryptic is purposely pushing half baked games out the door.  I believe they have every intention of creating a complete, enjoyable game in the time frame they told their publisher/investors they would.  I just think they are completely incapable of meeting those time lines and goals.  Whether this is do to incompetence or unrealistic goals from the get go doesn't really matter to the consumer. I would guess it's combination of both.  I certainly do not blame the investors.  Ask yourself how much extra time it would have taken for STO and/or Champions to be a more viable/successful product?  Hell, I'm not sure they are even now and they launched how long ago?

« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 03:56:22 PM by morlac » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2010, 02:25:32 PM »

new interview on VE#D.
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