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Author Topic: NBA 2K7 vs Live 07  (Read 1429 times)
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JuniorDan
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« on: September 26, 2006, 05:45:47 AM »

which one will you all be getting today?

I personally getting 2K7.
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2006, 07:08:16 AM »

nba2k7 xbox360
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2006, 08:25:59 AM »

The 2k NBA games have been getting better and better and the buzz from sports gamers in the know have been unreal.  Operation Sports gave it a 10/10 and 2k6 already played a damn solid game of basketball.
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2006, 11:25:16 AM »

Agreed with the above. 

NBA2k6 was already a fantastically good game.  To think 2k7 will be even better?  Wow!

I wish I liked pro basketball more than I do.  This game looks good enough to be worth me remaking the '83 Sixers from scratch though. 

(PG) Mo Cheeks
(SG) Andrew Toney
(C) Moses Malone
(SF) Julius Erving
(PF) Charles Barkley (R)
(6M) Bobby Jones

My favorite basketball team of all time.  Yeah... I may just do that.

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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2006, 12:10:29 PM »

Nba Live 07

I wasn't impressed with the 2k7 demo.

Here is the Gamespot review for 2k7:

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/sports/nba2k7/review.html?sid=6158603&tag=topslot;action;1

I'm sorry, but a 10/10 from Op Sports when half the review is about negatives is just silly. Does this sound like a ten out of ten to you?

Quote
Let me be clear: the game isnít perfect. The sound is probably the worst aspect of NBA 2K7. The crowd isnít as responsive as I would like it to be. For example, Iíve seen instances where the home team hit a big shot that tied or took the lead in a game and the home crowd will give a lukewarm reaction to the play. Iíve also seen the crowd go crazy for a lay-up that gave the home team a 4-0 lead. It just seems to be sort of random. Also, on certain occasions the crowd will cheer for the away team when they score a basket. It doesnít happen often but it does happen.

Kevin Harlan and Kenny Smith are once again doing play by play and Iím very disappointed in their work. Itís a shame because they are two of my favorite television personalities but their commentary is extremely repetitive. There were several occasions where I heard the same line three or four times in the same game. Players such as Sarunus Jasikevicius are still called by their number even though they have been in the league for more than a year. The PA announcer is sometimes silent after a score or will get halfway through a players name and stop before finishing.

Graphically, there are still a few issues too. The player faces still need serious work. Some of the major players like Dwyane Wade and Kobe look like their real life counterparts however, many arenít even close. Most of the rookies look horrible and some of them donít even have the right skin tone (See: Rodney Carney and Quincy Douby). Collision detection and some clipping issues are present but they arenít perfect. Iíve played almost thirty games and I have seen two dunks where the player went through another player. Still two times out of thirty games isnít that bad. The clothing malfunction bug found in NBA 2K6 is still present in NBA 2K7 as you will see playerís jerseys and shorts rip and tear for a few plays. This bug happens much less in this yearís version. Finally, there are some small ball physics and sliding issues. The ball doesn't seem to touch a playerís hand when shooting. It floats a few centimeters above his hand. Also, sliding is still present but its no where near the NBA Live amount of sliding.

Player spacing is another issue that crops up in NBA 2K7. Occasionally, you will see players get in each otherís way and while it doesnít happen with much regularity it can be annoying. The biggest on court issue is the defensive ability of big men. One thing this game is great at is mismatches. If you have Gilbert Arenas guarding Shaq in the post off of a switch, itís easy to back Arenas down and score an easy bucket. The AI is also smart enough to quickly double team if there is a mismatch. The issue arises when a quick guard like Arenas is guarded by a big man like Shaq on the perimeter. In real life, Arenas should blast past Shaq with no problem but in NBA 2K7 thatís not the case. It takes several dribble moves to get past a player like Erick Dampier and that should not be the case. Iím sure that this is something that can be fixed with sliders but out of the box this part of the game is really frustrating.

Finally, I think its time to put the "24/7" mode to rest. This is 2Kís third try at making this mode an interesting part of this game and itís the third year they have failed. This year, your goal is to raise your rep and get an opportunity to play in the Legends Charity Tournament at Rucker Park. Itís structured similar to previous years as you play with and against NBA players in order to build your reputation. The main difference is there are now cutscenes that document the storyline and instead of being mostly a mode focused on one on one play, this yearís mode focuses on five on five play. Its still a big waste of time and as much work has been done on the NBA aspect of this game, Iím sure they could use the resources spent on this mode for something else like authentic arenas or an All Star Weekend.
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2006, 01:39:48 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on September 26, 2006, 12:10:29 PM

Nba Live 07

I wasn't impressed with the 2k7 demo.

Here is the Gamespot review for 2k7:

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/sports/nba2k7/review.html?sid=6158603&tag=topslot;action;1

I'm sorry, but a 10/10 from Op Sports when half the review is about negatives is just silly. Does this sound like a ten out of ten to you?

Quote
Let me be clear: the game isnít perfect. The sound is probably the worst aspect of NBA 2K7. The crowd isnít as responsive as I would like it to be. For example, Iíve seen instances where the home team hit a big shot that tied or took the lead in a game and the home crowd will give a lukewarm reaction to the play. Iíve also seen the crowd go crazy for a lay-up that gave the home team a 4-0 lead. It just seems to be sort of random. Also, on certain occasions the crowd will cheer for the away team when they score a basket. It doesnít happen often but it does happen.

Kevin Harlan and Kenny Smith are once again doing play by play and Iím very disappointed in their work. Itís a shame because they are two of my favorite television personalities but their commentary is extremely repetitive. There were several occasions where I heard the same line three or four times in the same game. Players such as Sarunus Jasikevicius are still called by their number even though they have been in the league for more than a year. The PA announcer is sometimes silent after a score or will get halfway through a players name and stop before finishing.

Graphically, there are still a few issues too. The player faces still need serious work. Some of the major players like Dwyane Wade and Kobe look like their real life counterparts however, many arenít even close. Most of the rookies look horrible and some of them donít even have the right skin tone (See: Rodney Carney and Quincy Douby). Collision detection and some clipping issues are present but they arenít perfect. Iíve played almost thirty games and I have seen two dunks where the player went through another player. Still two times out of thirty games isnít that bad. The clothing malfunction bug found in NBA 2K6 is still present in NBA 2K7 as you will see playerís jerseys and shorts rip and tear for a few plays. This bug happens much less in this yearís version. Finally, there are some small ball physics and sliding issues. The ball doesn't seem to touch a playerís hand when shooting. It floats a few centimeters above his hand. Also, sliding is still present but its no where near the NBA Live amount of sliding.

Player spacing is another issue that crops up in NBA 2K7. Occasionally, you will see players get in each otherís way and while it doesnít happen with much regularity it can be annoying. The biggest on court issue is the defensive ability of big men. One thing this game is great at is mismatches. If you have Gilbert Arenas guarding Shaq in the post off of a switch, itís easy to back Arenas down and score an easy bucket. The AI is also smart enough to quickly double team if there is a mismatch. The issue arises when a quick guard like Arenas is guarded by a big man like Shaq on the perimeter. In real life, Arenas should blast past Shaq with no problem but in NBA 2K7 thatís not the case. It takes several dribble moves to get past a player like Erick Dampier and that should not be the case. Iím sure that this is something that can be fixed with sliders but out of the box this part of the game is really frustrating.

Finally, I think its time to put the "24/7" mode to rest. This is 2Kís third try at making this mode an interesting part of this game and itís the third year they have failed. This year, your goal is to raise your rep and get an opportunity to play in the Legends Charity Tournament at Rucker Park. Itís structured similar to previous years as you play with and against NBA players in order to build your reputation. The main difference is there are now cutscenes that document the storyline and instead of being mostly a mode focused on one on one play, this yearís mode focuses on five on five play. Its still a big waste of time and as much work has been done on the NBA aspect of this game, Iím sure they could use the resources spent on this mode for something else like authentic arenas or an All Star Weekend.

You copied and pasted one section out of a large review and cut out the next paragraph where he explains the 10/10 rating:

Quote
Iím going to make this really simple: this is the greatest basketball game Iíve ever played. This is also the greatest one year leap Iíve ever seen in a series. I wasnít as crazy about NBA 2K6 as many of the fans and other reviewers were. I felt it was a decent but flawed game and it looked great when compared to the competition but average on its own. NBA 2K7, however, fixed almost every single flaw in last yearís game and add an unbelievable amount of animations and features. Due to this, Iím awarding this game my first ever 10 out of 10. Now before some of you go crazy and yell ďHow can you give this game a 10 out of 10 when you acknowledge it has flaws?!Ē understand what a 10 out of 10 really means. According to the Operation Sports ratings system a 10 out of 10 is a ďA rare and singular achievement in sports gaming. A 'must-buy' for any serious gamer.Ē I cant think of a better way to describe NBA 2K7.
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2006, 02:04:11 PM »

Sports Forum vs. In Here

 :slywink:
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2006, 02:20:39 PM »

Quote from: Devil on September 26, 2006, 02:04:11 PM

Sports Forum vs. In Here

 :slywink:

Views vs No Views
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2006, 02:25:35 PM »

Right vs. Wrong
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2006, 02:31:18 PM »

Quote
Iím going to make this really simple: this is the greatest basketball game Iíve ever played. This is also the greatest one year leap Iíve ever seen in a series. I wasnít as crazy about NBA 2K6 as many of the fans and other reviewers were. I felt it was a decent but flawed game and it looked great when compared to the competition but average on its own. NBA 2K7, however, fixed almost every single flaw in last yearís game and add an unbelievable amount of animations and features. Due to this, Iím awarding this game my first ever 10 out of 10. Now before some of you go crazy and yell ďHow can you give this game a 10 out of 10 when you acknowledge it has flaws?!Ē understand what a 10 out of 10 really means. According to the Operation Sports ratings system a 10 out of 10 is a ďA rare and singular achievement in sports gaming. A 'must-buy' for any serious gamer.Ē I cant think of a better way to describe NBA 2K7.

Yeah, but any reviewer that feels he has to justify the fact that he gave the game a 10/10 to a game that has quite a few flaws, maybe shouldn't have given the game a 10/10 in the first place. Now, the game might be great....but 10/10? Come on.
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2006, 02:39:41 PM »

I'm getting Live for the 360. I hate overly complex Free Throw Shooting and I have never felt comfortable with the 2K B-Ball games control scheme.
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2006, 02:42:22 PM »

Quote from: Devil on September 26, 2006, 02:25:35 PM

Right vs. Wrong

David vs. Cameron Manheim
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2006, 02:47:10 PM »

Quote from: jblank on September 26, 2006, 02:39:41 PM

I'm getting Live for the 360. I hate overly complex Free Throw Shooting and I have never felt comfortable with the 2K B-Ball games control scheme.

I believe that the 2k games changed their free-throw shooting scheme with last year's edition. The previous method (of having to align both analog sticks at the same time) completely sucked. It's much better now.
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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2006, 02:48:32 PM »

NBA 2K7.

In my mind it isn't even close.  Alot of people are saying 2K7 might be the best sports game of all time.  Plus the online leagues and presentation are amazing. 
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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2006, 02:50:15 PM »

OUT! vs IN!

Don't make me be IN!  crybaby
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« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2006, 02:51:02 PM »

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on September 26, 2006, 02:47:10 PM

Quote from: jblank on September 26, 2006, 02:39:41 PM

I'm getting Live for the 360. I hate overly complex Free Throw Shooting and I have never felt comfortable with the 2K B-Ball games control scheme.

I believe that the 2k games changed their free-throw shooting scheme with last year's edition. The previous method (of having to align both analog sticks at the same time) completely sucked. It's much better now.

In addition you can just let the CPU shoot it and use the players' free throw percentage to decide if he makes it.  Which is what I have always been asking for since 2K5.
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« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2006, 02:53:10 PM »

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on September 26, 2006, 02:47:10 PM

Quote from: jblank on September 26, 2006, 02:39:41 PM

I'm getting Live for the 360. I hate overly complex Free Throw Shooting and I have never felt comfortable with the 2K B-Ball games control scheme.

I believe that the 2k games changed their free-throw shooting scheme with last year's edition. The previous method (of having to align both analog sticks at the same time) completely sucked. It's much better now.

Is it? IGN says its still extremely frustrating....

Quote
As such, free throws are much more difficult to make this year. You do have the option of letting the CPU playing the percentages and shooting for you. This way, you may actually make a free throw
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« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2006, 02:53:52 PM »

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on September 26, 2006, 02:47:10 PM

Quote from: jblank on September 26, 2006, 02:39:41 PM

I'm getting Live for the 360. I hate overly complex Free Throw Shooting and I have never felt comfortable with the 2K B-Ball games control scheme.

I believe that the 2k games changed their free-throw shooting scheme with last year's edition. The previous method (of having to align both analog sticks at the same time) completely sucked. It's much better now.

The "aligning both analog sticks" mechanic wasn't in last years game either. It's been replaced with a system in which you have to hold back on one of the analog sticks and then flick it up at the height of the shooter's release. Timing for each player is different considering they have different free throw techniques.

In any case, I loved the NBA2K7 demo (tons of new animations, played realistically, nice touches like Dirk's inverted knee bend on the free throw line, etc.), but I doubt I'll shell $60 out for it. I just don't play NBA games enough to get my money's worth. I might change my mind if there's a GT or OO league, but other than that, I might just wait and pick up the college game, since UNC is going to kick all kinds of ass this year. smile

As for NBA Live, I'm curious to see some reviews. Last year's demo was HORRIBLE. Here's hoping they improved the game dramatically...
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« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2006, 02:56:57 PM »

I'm just gonna stick with Live, then listen to what you guys say, and decide about whether or not to pick up 2K7.
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« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2006, 02:57:51 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on September 26, 2006, 02:31:18 PM

Quote
Iím going to make this really simple: this is the greatest basketball game Iíve ever played. This is also the greatest one year leap Iíve ever seen in a series. I wasnít as crazy about NBA 2K6 as many of the fans and other reviewers were. I felt it was a decent but flawed game and it looked great when compared to the competition but average on its own. NBA 2K7, however, fixed almost every single flaw in last yearís game and add an unbelievable amount of animations and features. Due to this, Iím awarding this game my first ever 10 out of 10. Now before some of you go crazy and yell ďHow can you give this game a 10 out of 10 when you acknowledge it has flaws?!Ē understand what a 10 out of 10 really means. According to the Operation Sports ratings system a 10 out of 10 is a ďA rare and singular achievement in sports gaming. A 'must-buy' for any serious gamer.Ē I cant think of a better way to describe NBA 2K7.

Yeah, but any reviewer that feels he has to justify the fact that he gave the game a 10/10 to a game that has quite a few flaws, maybe shouldn't have given the game a 10/10 in the first place. Now, the game might be great....but 10/10? Come on.

Hetz: As one poster at OpSports mentions...  Why have a 1-10 scale if you never use the 10 grade?  Why not have a 1 to 9 scale?  Personally, based on the OpSports definition of a "10" - who are you to judge this guys rating, especially if you have not yet played the final product?    If anything is silly (your word) - it's your comment regarding his rating.  Whether or not the game deserves a 10 grade on the OpSports scale is completely subject to critism of course, but to say because he mentions flaws, the game is now unworthy somehow of a 10 grade shows only that your definition of a 10/10 and this reviewer's definition of a 10/10 are different.   As to why he feels he needs to "justify" his rating - I would submit it's precisely because of people like you and your comments.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2006, 03:03:28 PM by Lockdown » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2006, 03:07:48 PM »

Quote from: Lockdown on September 26, 2006, 02:57:51 PM

Quote from: Hetz on September 26, 2006, 02:31:18 PM

Quote
Iím going to make this really simple: this is the greatest basketball game Iíve ever played. This is also the greatest one year leap Iíve ever seen in a series. I wasnít as crazy about NBA 2K6 as many of the fans and other reviewers were. I felt it was a decent but flawed game and it looked great when compared to the competition but average on its own. NBA 2K7, however, fixed almost every single flaw in last yearís game and add an unbelievable amount of animations and features. Due to this, Iím awarding this game my first ever 10 out of 10. Now before some of you go crazy and yell ďHow can you give this game a 10 out of 10 when you acknowledge it has flaws?!Ē understand what a 10 out of 10 really means. According to the Operation Sports ratings system a 10 out of 10 is a ďA rare and singular achievement in sports gaming. A 'must-buy' for any serious gamer.Ē I cant think of a better way to describe NBA 2K7.

Yeah, but any reviewer that feels he has to justify the fact that he gave the game a 10/10 to a game that has quite a few flaws, maybe shouldn't have given the game a 10/10 in the first place. Now, the game might be great....but 10/10? Come on.

Hetz: As one poster at OpSports mentions...  Why have a 1-10 scale if you never use the 10 grade?  Why not have a 1 to 9 scale?  Personally, based on the OpSports definition of a "10" - who are you to judge this guys rating, especially if you have not yet played the final product?    If anything is silly (your word) - it's your comment regarding his rating.  Whether or not the game deserves a 10 grade on the OpSports scale is completely subject to critism of course, but to say because he mentions flaws, the game is now unworthy somehow of a 10 grade shows only that your definition of a 10/10 and this reviewer's definition of a 10/10 are different.   As to why he feels he needs to "justify" his rating - I would submit it's precisely because of people like you and your comments.

I'm not taking sides between you or Hetz, so just look at what I say as me playing Devil's Advocate. To me, 10 implies perfection, and when you read the review, it does sound like there are some problems, which in my book means its not "perfect" and maybe not justifying of that high a score.

I used to be careful about trying to do this when I reviewed games for Console Gold. I would get caught up in what was great about a game and find myself wanting to overrate it based on what I liked, weighing it more than what I didn't like. As a reviewer, both should be weighed the same, and it seems like in this particular review, that he focused much too much on the good and the score reflected that. It's gonna be a great game, I have no doubt, but that didn't sound like a "10" review.
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« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2006, 03:10:16 PM »

OK, then, it's settled.

Every game should get a 10 and Lockwdown will be setting up the
"Poncho Memorial NBA 2K7 Tourney"

Sponsors will include Pepperidge Farm, Johnson & Johnson, Harrah's Hotels and The Pottery Barn.

The first 2 rounds will be held in Beijing with the quarterfinals in Caracas and the final four games to be played in Edmonton.

I call America's Team.

Lets get rolling!
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« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2006, 03:20:16 PM »

jblank - I appreciate the discussion.  Whether or not the game deserves a "10" score on my scale, your scale, Hetz' scale, Nancy's scale, Scott's scale, the Iotola's scale, Jim Nance's scale, or God's scale, really doesn't matter in this context.  I am simply making the point that if you use the quoted OpSports definition of a "10" - I really don't think it matters if the game has 7,691 documented flaws - if a game is deemed "A rare and singular achievement in sports gaming. A 'must-buy' for any serious gamer.Ē - then in this reviewer's mind, the game is a 10 out of 10. 

Honestly, I don't even see how this can be debated.  Now, if you want to debate the definition of OpSports "10" - you won't get any argument from me.  Although I do think Opsports has every right to define their "10" any way they want to - irregardless of my feelings toward it.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2006, 03:23:14 PM by Lockdown » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2006, 03:46:37 PM »

Quote from: Lockdown on September 26, 2006, 03:20:16 PM

jblank - I appreciate the discussion.  Whether or not the game deserves a "10" score on my scale, your scale, Hetz' scale, Nancy's scale, Scott's scale, the Iotola's scale, Jim Nance's scale, or God's scale, really doesn't matter in this context.  I am simply making the point that if you use the quoted OpSports definition of a "10" - I really don't think it matters if the game has 7,691 documented flaws - if a game is deemed "A rare and singular achievement in sports gaming. A 'must-buy' for any serious gamer.Ē - then in this reviewer's mind, the game is a 10 out of 10. 

Honestly, I don't even see how this can be debated.  Now, if you want to debate the definition of OpSports "10" - you won't get any argument from me.  Although I do think Opsports has every right to define their "10" any way they want to - irregardless of my feelings toward it.



Fair points, all of them, but one final question; the first time you read that review, did you think the game would be scored a 10?
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« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2006, 03:53:46 PM »

I can't see myself getting either.  I just don't like the pro game enough to play it.  I may pick up NCAA 2k7 though.

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« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2006, 04:55:18 PM »

Quote from: jblank

Fair points, all of them, but one final question; the first time you read that review, did you think the game would be scored a 10?

No.  And I'll give you this also:  I don't think it would have on any other site either, as other site's definition of a "10" is probably closer to yours.

 - - - -

As for which game I'm getting?  2k7.  I will be picking it up sometime today or tomorrow.  I can really relate to this reviewer in that I am hyper-critical of games I think are great.  NFL2k5 and CH2k6 come to mind.  I can't tell you how much I love both those games, nor how fantastic I think they both are... but I could list enough flaws in each of them to blow your socks off.

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LD

"Let your enemies fear, for a harlequin of the Laughing God dances at your side."
mikeg
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« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2006, 10:50:52 PM »

No more $60 games for me.  EVERY single game I have purchased that high I was able to pick up for no more than $39.99 within a month somewhere somehow.  Done. Fini. 

As for which, 2k7 if either since sports title are my least fav genre, but having played the demo, I kinda liked it.  For a sports title anyway.
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Captain Caveman
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« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2006, 07:11:15 PM »

Anyone have any impressions of either game yet?
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coopasonic
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« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2006, 07:45:06 PM »

Quote from: Captain Caveman on September 27, 2006, 07:11:15 PM

Anyone have any impressions of either game yet?

My impressiosn is that Fry's didn't have them today.
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Canuck
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« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2006, 12:42:33 AM »

All this proves is that assigning a game a number is ridiculous.  All sites should be like Wargamer.com which don't provide any ratings.  You read the review and see what the guy has to say.  With that said, if the requirements for a 10 do not include the game being "perfect" then I don't see why it can't be given a 10.  In fact I dont think there has ever been a perfect game which means we probably could just reduce the scale from 1 to 9.
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stiffler
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« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2006, 01:48:44 AM »

MODS!
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