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Author Topic: MW2 - my son is a cheater. How can I let him live in the same house as me?  (Read 3105 times)
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Roman
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« on: December 01, 2009, 04:56:33 PM »

I recently discovered that my son is a cheater in MW2  crybaby

How does he cheat you ask? Well back in COD4 days he would specifically search out other players in cage matches who were only interested in 'head shot' type games so that they could both just stand there and increase their stats.
Easy enough to do back in COD4.

But I had heard that they eliminated this type of staged 2 player matches in the latest incarnation......

Well he and a friend on Live figured out a way to make their cage matches work and are raking up the points! finger

Example - they are playing a match yesterday and his friend adds the turret to his kill streak and my son dons the riot shield and stands in front of the turret and I watch gobsmacked as the points start rolling in - upwards of 5000pts in the space of 3mins. He is getting points for deflecting 50k + rounds.

I am a sad dad today  eek

Here he is a level 49 while I am struggling at level 39 or so.

Granted - he is a darn good multiplayer. But come on already  Roll Eyes

Roman
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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2009, 05:04:45 PM »

Take away his Xbox? Kid's got to learn...
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2009, 05:08:47 PM »

My brother-in-law is one of these culprits, so I at least somewhat understand your pain.  While I don't have any children of my own, children are typically grounded for poor behavior or for doing something wrong (hitting a sibling, swearing, etc).  Even though it might be a new concept to ground children for poor behavior in online gaming, he is doing something of questionable character.  Cheating is cheating, whether it be illegal performance enhancing drugs in sports, writing exam answers on the back of your hand in school, or falsifying a tax return.  In every case the outcome or overall goal is different (as are the consequences), but the one common thread is poor character and immoral behavior.

To be completely honest, it is my opinion that disciplinary action is in order.  Sure, it is "just a game", but so is baseball, so is football, so is monopoly, so is billiards.  I play competitive pool, and I am disgusted by opponents who cheat (not calling bad hits, "accidentally" bumping balls while shooting to open up the table, harassing shooters while they play to distract their concentration).  Sure, it's just a game, but honor and integrity are very important aspects of character.  In order for your son to better grasp the concept of character I think no lesson is too small or trivial.  Cheating is cheating as far as I am concerned.

But that is entirely my opinion, and I am not suggesting that I know how to better raise your child.  I simply put a lot of weight in character and find it to be one of the most important traits in the friends that I maintain.  Character is learned through all types of instances, from board games to Super Bowl championships.  I don't believe that disciplinary action in response to poor behavior in a video game is too harsh.  Just because you can cheat doesn't mean you should.  Regardless of game.  Good character can come out in major events when many are watching, but true character comes out in minor events when no one is watching. 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2009, 05:10:36 PM by PeteRock » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2009, 05:09:33 PM »

sure - than he will be on mine! That just can't happen  icon_evil
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2009, 05:18:33 PM »

I would say you should berate him for his morally questionable behavior, but I abused a singleplayer glitch to boost my rank to Elite in R6: Vegas 2, so that would be ever so slightly hypocritical  icon_lol
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2009, 05:20:51 PM »

If it's taking him 3 minutes to score 500 points, then leave him be. It's taking far longer than it should.
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« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2009, 05:23:03 PM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on December 01, 2009, 05:20:51 PM

If it's taking him 3 minutes to score 500 points, then leave him be. It's taking far longer than it should.

Quote from: Roman on December 01, 2009, 04:56:33 PM

...upwards of 5000pts in the space of 3mins. He is getting points for deflecting 50k + rounds.


Cheating is cheating, regardless of whether you're any good at it. 
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2009, 05:29:33 PM »

sounds like you need to cancel his gold account and hide all copies of MW2 when you're not around.
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2009, 05:32:05 PM »

Oh! 5000?!  Well yeah, then he needs to be beaten about the head and face! 

I'm not sure what the gain he's making is. So what if he levels up faster? It's not makign him any better at the game.

The best punishment would be for you to kick his butt in TDM.
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2009, 05:34:25 PM »

He'll have his fun, until they reset his account for doing this kind of stuff.
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2009, 05:39:17 PM »

I haven't heard of IW doing anything to combat this type of thing, but I know after a few multiplayer matches I've had messages from people I don't have on my friends list spamming about creating a riot shield rank up game. Apparently it's far more common than I thought it was.

Like was said earlier, it doesn't make you any better at the game so I really don't get the point of it. Wow, you're twice prestiged lvl 52. Doesn't matter if you get smoked when you hop in multiplayer. If you're gearing all your EXP on stuff like this you'll probably have a lousy K/D anyways. And if you ask Lettuce, that's all that matters.  icon_wink
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2009, 05:42:07 PM »

Meh I don't really care if he cheats as long as he doesn't get some sort of huge advantage from elite ranks or something.

I cheated in Vegas 2 to get ranks but there was no advantage in being higher level (lower level guns were just as good as higher level unlocks).  I'm only against cheating if it makes multiplayer matches unfair.
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2009, 05:54:36 PM »

I agree with a lot of what was said about character development and the importance of playing a game the "right" way. If he was using glitches in multiplayer, like unlimited airdrops, in order to make the game unfair then that is worthy of being punished.

But in this case, he's not doing anything that isn't part of the game, and the only thing he's doing is artificially inflating his rank. I wouldn't consider it "cheating" so much as he's taking advantage and not playing in the spirit of the game. Certainly worth talking to him and explaining that he shouldn't be doing it that way. I'm not so sure any further punishment would be warranted though.
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2009, 05:55:53 PM »

I encountered a couple of asshats in a FFA game last night boosting each other so they could get the tactical nuke.  They were both reported for cheating, and marked as avoid.  How.  Lame.
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2009, 06:06:23 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on December 01, 2009, 05:55:53 PM

I encountered a couple of asshats in a FFA game last night boosting each other so they could get the tactical nuke.  They were both reported for cheating, and marked as avoid.  How.  Lame.

after yesterdays Penny Arcade comic I'm sure it's safe to report anyone using double shotguns as a cheater too  icon_twisted

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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2009, 06:21:56 PM »

Quote from: msteelers on December 01, 2009, 05:54:36 PM

I agree with a lot of what was said about character development and the importance of playing a game the "right" way. If he was using glitches in multiplayer, like unlimited airdrops, in order to make the game unfair then that is worthy of being punished.

But in this case, he's not doing anything that isn't part of the game, and the only thing he's doing is artificially inflating his rank. I wouldn't consider it "cheating" so much as he's taking advantage and not playing in the spirit of the game. Certainly worth talking to him and explaining that he shouldn't be doing it that way. I'm not so sure any further punishment would be warranted though.

But boosting is douchey, and the last thing you want for a son is a douche.
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« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2009, 06:25:02 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on December 01, 2009, 06:21:56 PM

Quote from: msteelers on December 01, 2009, 05:54:36 PM

I agree with a lot of what was said about character development and the importance of playing a game the "right" way. If he was using glitches in multiplayer, like unlimited airdrops, in order to make the game unfair then that is worthy of being punished.

But in this case, he's not doing anything that isn't part of the game, and the only thing he's doing is artificially inflating his rank. I wouldn't consider it "cheating" so much as he's taking advantage and not playing in the spirit of the game. Certainly worth talking to him and explaining that he shouldn't be doing it that way. I'm not so sure any further punishment would be warranted though.

But boosting is douchey, and the last thing you want for a son is a douche.

I cannot argue with this logic. icon_biggrin
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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2009, 06:29:29 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 01, 2009, 06:06:23 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on December 01, 2009, 05:55:53 PM

I encountered a couple of asshats in a FFA game last night boosting each other so they could get the tactical nuke.  They were both reported for cheating, and marked as avoid.  How.  Lame.

after yesterdays Penny Arcade comic I'm sure it's safe to report anyone using double shotguns as a cheater too  icon_twisted
Nah, I don't consider that cheating.  Tongue
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« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2009, 06:31:06 PM »

Considering that I prolly won't ever see a prestige level (with my skill level and playstyle).. this would interest me if I was trying to prestiege.  *BUT* I don't relish re-unlocking everything, so I'll prolly just suffer without Prestiege.
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« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2009, 06:43:09 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on December 01, 2009, 05:23:03 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on December 01, 2009, 05:20:51 PM

If it's taking him 3 minutes to score 500 points, then leave him be. It's taking far longer than it should.

Quote from: Roman on December 01, 2009, 04:56:33 PM

...upwards of 5000pts in the space of 3mins. He is getting points for deflecting 50k + rounds.




Are you sure the 5000 wasn't just from completing a one-time challenge?  I know there's one for absorbing a certain amount with a riot shield, which sounds more likely than a straight 5k every 3 minutes.
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« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2009, 06:49:06 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on December 01, 2009, 06:43:09 PM

Quote from: PeteRock on December 01, 2009, 05:23:03 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on December 01, 2009, 05:20:51 PM

If it's taking him 3 minutes to score 500 points, then leave him be. It's taking far longer than it should.

Quote from: Roman on December 01, 2009, 04:56:33 PM

...upwards of 5000pts in the space of 3mins. He is getting points for deflecting 50k + rounds.




Are you sure the 5000 wasn't just from completing a one-time challenge?  I know there's one for absorbing a certain amount with a riot shield, which sounds more likely than a straight 5k every 3 minutes.

Yeah, that's what I figured, but if you search for "riot shield boosting" on google, it is very popular and it says you can get 30-50K very quickly. I'm not quite clear - do you just get regular bonuses for deflecting bullets?
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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2009, 07:01:30 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on December 01, 2009, 06:49:06 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on December 01, 2009, 06:43:09 PM

Quote from: PeteRock on December 01, 2009, 05:23:03 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on December 01, 2009, 05:20:51 PM

If it's taking him 3 minutes to score 500 points, then leave him be. It's taking far longer than it should.

Quote from: Roman on December 01, 2009, 04:56:33 PM

...upwards of 5000pts in the space of 3mins. He is getting points for deflecting 50k + rounds.




Are you sure the 5000 wasn't just from completing a one-time challenge?  I know there's one for absorbing a certain amount with a riot shield, which sounds more likely than a straight 5k every 3 minutes.

Yeah, that's what I figured, but if you search for "riot shield boosting" on google, it is very popular and it says you can get 30-50K very quickly. I'm not quite clear - do you just get regular bonuses for deflecting bullets?

Apologies - it was only one instance of 5k you are correct. However after that it was a pretty steady climb in terms of increments by the tens every second or so. It did amount to a lot at the end of the day.
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« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2009, 07:05:13 PM »

hmm interesting replies here to be sure.

I must admit that I did not expect some of the vitriol in a few of the posts either. I posted this out of sheer humour (Canadian spelling) factor.

While I will let him know that what he is doing is not how the game was designed to be played I will not ban him from playing his Xbox.

Sure he is artificially raising his rank- but he is not hurting / illegally modifying anything or anyone and at the end of the day he is not out to cheat anyone but himself. He knows that it is a game and that there is certainly no gains outside of getting new weapons that will make him a better human etc etc. Come on get a grip.(sheesh)

He knows the difference between right and wrong as it applies to REAL LIFE but this is a game in which there are no significant gains as mentioned above infact he is the most sensitive individual when considering other peoples feelings outside of me that I know.

PS I am leaving out his age just in case the high and mighty want to jump on me for that too. Rest assured that I was present to ensure that he skipped the airport scene. I did explain what it was and also mentioned that it was not something that he needed to see.

Roman

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« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2009, 07:07:40 PM »

I still can't figure out where exactly the points come from, but apparently if you go into an S&D game and use your riot shield, you can get about 1600XP just for letting someone unload their clips into your shield. 12 people go into a room with one man army and just keep alternating with their partner for the entire game.
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« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2009, 07:15:49 PM »

Quote from: Roman on December 01, 2009, 07:05:13 PM

I must admit that I did not expect some of the vitriol in a few of the posts either. I posted this out of sheer humour (Canadian spelling) factor.

Vitriol?  Expressing concern over a son's behavior involving "cheating" in a game (your word, not mine), regardless of whether you were being facetious, and being met with opinions on personal character is not "vitriol."  You called your son's behavior "cheating."  We responded in kind.  

Quote
Sure he is artificially raising his rank- but he is not hurting / illegally modifying anything or anyone and at the end of the day he is not out to cheat anyone but himself. He knows that it is a game and that there is certainly no gains outside of getting new weapons that will make him a better human etc etc. Come on get a grip.(sheesh)

He knows the difference between right and wrong as it applies to REAL LIFE but this is a game in which there are no significant gains as mentioned above infact he is the most sensitive individual when considering other peoples feelings outside of me that I know.

PS I am leaving out his age just in case the high and mighty want to jump on me for that too. Rest assured that I was present to ensure that he skipped the airport scene. I did explain what it was and also mentioned that it was not something that he needed to see.

Roman



He's your son, not ours, and you have a far better understanding of his maturation and growth.  Raise him as you see fit, and if his actions online are not considered by you to be questionable or in poor form, that's your call.  But to equate opinions on character with "vitriol" is a bit thin-skinned.  Ultimately you determine where your son stands on character.  But your initial example, whether it be in jest or not, certainly isn't an ideal representation.

EDIT:  That probably sounded harsher than it was intended.  I'm not upset about the topic or with your son in general.  I merely took your initial post as being serious in intent rather than in jest, and I worry about setting precedents about cheating and dishonesty, regardless of how minor.  You know your son and the upbringing he has had, and perhaps disciplining his actions would be a bit much. 

Mountain out of a molehill and all that.  Best of luck trying to catch up to his prestige level.   icon_wink
« Last Edit: December 01, 2009, 07:30:29 PM by PeteRock » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2009, 07:18:51 PM »

I've heard that absorbing damage with riot shields gets you some points, but I'm not sure on the specifics of it though. I remember even seeing, in the thread at GWJ I believe, a tip about sitting in front of an enemy turret with the riot shield to gain some quick XP.
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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2009, 07:49:06 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on December 01, 2009, 07:15:49 PM

Quote from: Roman on December 01, 2009, 07:05:13 PM

I must admit that I did not expect some of the vitriol in a few of the posts either. I posted this out of sheer humour (Canadian spelling) factor.

Vitriol?  Expressing concern over a son's behavior involving "cheating" in a game (your word, not mine), regardless of whether you were being facetious, and being met with opinions on personal character is not "vitriol."  You called your son's behavior "cheating."  We responded in kind.  

Quote
Sure he is artificially raising his rank- but he is not hurting / illegally modifying anything or anyone and at the end of the day he is not out to cheat anyone but himself. He knows that it is a game and that there is certainly no gains outside of getting new weapons that will make him a better human etc etc. Come on get a grip.(sheesh)

He knows the difference between right and wrong as it applies to REAL LIFE but this is a game in which there are no significant gains as mentioned above infact he is the most sensitive individual when considering other peoples feelings outside of me that I know.

PS I am leaving out his age just in case the high and mighty want to jump on me for that too. Rest assured that I was present to ensure that he skipped the airport scene. I did explain what it was and also mentioned that it was not something that he needed to see.

Roman



He's your son, not ours, and you have a far better understanding of his maturation and growth.  Raise him as you see fit, and if his actions online are not considered by you to be questionable or in poor form, that's your call.  But to equate opinions on character with "vitriol" is a bit thin-skinned.  Ultimately you determine where your son stands on character.  But your initial example, whether it be in jest or not, certainly isn't an ideal representation.

EDIT:  That probably sounded harsher than it was intended.  I'm not upset about the topic or with your son in general.  I merely took your initial post as being serious in intent rather than in jest, and I worry about setting precedents about cheating and dishonesty, regardless of how minor.  You know your son and the upbringing he has had, and perhaps disciplining his actions would be a bit much.  

Mountain out of a molehill and all that.  Best of luck trying to catch up to his prestige level.   icon_wink

No harm no foul - I admit that I was trying to sound all 'wordy nerdy' by my choice of words.
I like who he is and am happy with how he is being raised - I think that thin skin thing holds. I posted something and should have been ready for any and all responses.
At the end of the day it was merely a conversation over the interwebs that I will probably not even reflect upon in a weeks time.

And - yes you are correct - I will probably never catch him now  icon_wink
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« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2009, 08:03:12 PM »

disown him and throw him on the streets. disgusting.
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« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2009, 08:03:52 PM »

Quote from: Roman on December 01, 2009, 07:49:06 PM

No harm no foul - I admit that I was trying to sound all 'wordy nerdy' by my choice of words.
I like who he is and am happy with how he is being raised.

Excellent.  Because you can say that with confidence, no one should doubt your parenting.    


Quote
I think that thin skin thing holds. I posted something and should have been ready for any and all responses.
At the end of the day it was merely a conversation over the interwebs that I will probably not even reflect upon in a weeks time.

It holds true for almost all of us.  Sometimes a word, phrase, assumed tone of voice, or particular response can rub any of us the wrong way.  And it's your son.  My mother-in-law has a personal credo of sorts she has always adhered to:  "Shit on me, but don't you ever shit on my kids."  That includes all of her kids, including friends of the family, son-in-laws, friends of her son or daughter who ever needed a place to stay or a house to spend Christmas or Thanksgiving, etc.  

Perhaps your son can show you a few "tricks" to improve your own MW2 rank.   icon_wink  
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« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2009, 08:07:23 PM »

I went through the cheating battle with my nephew when he was in his mid teens. I've never cheated myself, so I wasn't willing to condone it. For him it was mostly with PC games like Counterstrike and UT. It wasn't hard to spot, because he usually did it to impress friends when they were over. I really put my foot down when I caught him attemping a BSoD grief in Phantasy Star for gamecube. I forbid him to do any more cheating after that.

It wasn't too hard for me to regulate, because the gaming PC and consoles were in a family room. He knew too well if I was around I'd just turn them off - unplug the monitor in the case of the PC. So that would be my 1st advice to you; locate your gaming consoles/systems in common family rooms. My nephew got the message soon enough and stopped doing it. If cheating isn't something you'd do yourself and your not comfortable with it, my advice is just to turn it off - literally.
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« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2009, 08:08:52 PM »


Quote from: Roman on December 01, 2009, 07:49:06 PM

No harm no foul - I admit that I was trying to sound all 'wordy nerdy' by my choice of words.
I like who he is and am happy with how he is being raised.

Quote
Excellent.  Because you can say that with confidence, no one should doubt your parenting.    

Merci beaucoup!

Quote
Perhaps your son can show you a few "tricks" to improve your own MW2 rank.   icon_wink  

Ha! For once I am showing him some of the 'glitches' that I have learned from Hark and Kato! Now who is the master?  icon_lol
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« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2009, 08:11:53 PM »

okay all this emotion and coming clean has finally got the better of me. Time to unload.

I also cheated in some games at one time. The games were: Doom and Heretic. I would use the god mode [iddqd] and map cheats [iddt] and sometimes even the increase gamma [idbeholdl] cheat (more so in Doom)

Phew - that felt better. Now I know where my son gets it  icon_wink

Roman
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« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2009, 08:12:27 PM »

Quote from: Roman on December 01, 2009, 08:08:52 PM

Ha! For once I am showing him some of the 'glitches' that I have learned from Hark and Kato! Now who is the master?  icon_lol


Sometimes I wonder if Hark and Kato get a special "Batman and Robin" perk after a certain number of prestige levels they complete together when I see them scaling buildings as if they were Adam West and Burt Ward.

« Last Edit: December 01, 2009, 08:14:23 PM by PeteRock » Logged

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Fabulous is a state of being. For me, anyways.


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« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2009, 08:15:48 PM »

Quote from: Roman on December 01, 2009, 08:11:53 PM

okay all this emotion and coming clean has finally got the better of me. Time to unload.

I also cheated in some games at one time. The games were: Doom and Heretic. I would use the god mode and map cheats and sometimes even the increase gamma cheat (more so in Doom)

Phew - that felt better. Now I know where my son gets it  icon_wink

Roman

Well, I guess technically we're all cheaters.



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« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2009, 08:17:08 PM »

Quote from: Roman on December 01, 2009, 07:05:13 PM

Sure he is artificially raising his rank- but he is not hurting / illegally modifying anything or anyone and at the end of the day he is not out to cheat anyone but himself. He knows that it is a game and that there is certainly no gains outside of getting new weapons that will make him a better human etc etc.

This is what I thought when you posted at first.  If that is what makes him enjoy the game .... well that is his choice.
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« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2009, 08:19:41 PM »

Quote from: Roman on December 01, 2009, 08:11:53 PM

okay all this emotion and coming clean has finally got the better of me. Time to unload.

I also cheated in some games at one time. The games were: Doom and Heretic. I would use the god mode and map cheats and sometimes even the increase gamma cheat (more so in Doom)

Phew - that felt better. Now I know where my son gets it  icon_wink

Roman

"I learned it by watching you, dad!"
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« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2009, 08:22:06 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on December 01, 2009, 08:19:41 PM

Quote from: Roman on December 01, 2009, 08:11:53 PM

okay all this emotion and coming clean has finally got the better of me. Time to unload.

I also cheated in some games at one time. The games were: Doom and Heretic. I would use the god mode and map cheats and sometimes even the increase gamma cheat (more so in Doom)

Phew - that felt better. Now I know where my son gets it  icon_wink

Roman

"I learned it by watching you, dad!"

Now, I had heard that word at least ten times a day from my old man. He worked in profanity the way other artists might work in oils or clay. It was his true medium; a master. But, I chickened out and said the first name that came to mind.

Schwartz!
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« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2009, 08:28:45 PM »

This kind of cheating isn't much different than "cheating" by say.. not having a job and just playing MW2 all day.  The only thing experience in MW2 measures is how much and perhaps how efficiently you play.

If he were glitching during multiplayer games to gain an unfair advantage, I'd tell him to stop (unlimited air drops, lightweight/air drop, various map glitches.)  As Pete said, how is that any different than cheating at sports?  Something we'd most likely all agree would piss us off.
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« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2009, 08:45:28 PM »

Quote
If he were glitching during multiplayer games to gain an unfair advantage, I'd tell him to stop (unlimited air drops, lightweight/air drop, various map glitches.)  As Pete said, how is that any different than cheating at sports?  Something we'd most likely all agree would piss us off.

Agreed - he is not even close to learning that stuff just yet and I would certainly watch him for this type of 'glitching'. I hated the elevator glitches in COD: WaW - frustrated me to no end. And I made sure that he did not use it.
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« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2009, 10:48:35 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on December 01, 2009, 05:55:53 PM

I encountered a couple of asshats in a FFA game last night boosting each other so they could get the tactical nuke.  They were both reported for cheating, and marked as avoid.  How.  Lame.

Yea I ran into a couple of players playing FFA doing the same thing I kept killing one of them every chance I got until they left the game losers.
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