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Author Topic: MS Closes Ensemble  (Read 2761 times)
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Kevin Grey
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« on: September 10, 2008, 01:54:11 AM »

So for some unfathomable reason, MS is closing Ensemble (developers of the Age of... games and the upcoming Halo Wars), one of their most consistently successful studios.  Lots of layoffs today and the rest of the team is going away once Halo Wars is released next year.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6197465.html
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« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2008, 02:16:01 AM »

Man, that really sucks.  It's also surprising considering how well the Age games sold. 

This is the thing that sucks about developers being bought by larger publishers.  A few years down the road when there is new management or a new corporate direction at the publisher they just dump them. 

Also, how does this make any sense: "This was a fiscally rooted decision that keeps MGS on its growth path".  So closing down studios like FASA and Ensemble and selling Bungie back to itself is a "growth path"? 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 02:18:04 AM by EngineNo9 » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2008, 03:39:14 AM »

It's always weird and definitely unsettling when successful teams are disbanded, studios closed or companies disappear - the world of videogaming employment is a tough place!
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2008, 10:16:45 AM »

If true this is not very surprising to me. Despite being a software company, Microsoft has never been successful at building a strong internal development stable for their Xbox brand. There was an analyst some time ago who predicted that MS would eventually go this route, focusing more on music and movies- basically a media hub. There would still be a strong gaming presence, but one focused on second and third party software. Instead of true exclusives and supporting expensive development houses, MS would sign an increasing number of limited time exclusives.
No need to continuously provide health care, 401K and expensive salaries to all those people who, most likely, won't consistently provide you with the next Halo.

This was the same analyst who predicted that MS might go the 3DO route, and license their Xbox name, but let companies like Panasonic, LG and Samsung build the next console instead of focusing on that themselves. Personally, I would love to know my next Xbox was manufactured with Panasonic craftsmanship.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 10:22:23 AM by Dante Rising » Logged
Kevin Grey
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2008, 12:53:30 PM »

Quote from: Dante Rising on September 10, 2008, 10:16:45 AM

If true this is not very surprising to me. Despite being a software company, Microsoft has never been successful at building a strong internal development stable for their Xbox brand. There was an analyst some time ago who predicted that MS would eventually go this route, focusing more on music and movies- basically a media hub. There would still be a strong gaming presence, but one focused on second and third party software. Instead of true exclusives and supporting expensive development houses, MS would sign an increasing number of limited time exclusives.
No need to continuously provide health care, 401K and expensive salaries to all those people who, most likely, won't consistently provide you with the next Halo.

But Ensemble has been enormously successful for them.  Even AoE 3, which made less than its predecessors, was still huge by the standards of the PC market.

Personally I think this bodes ill for Halo Wars.  If it was shaping up to be an excellent franchise in its own right as well as showing other developers the path for making RTS games on consoles then I think MS would have kept Ensemble around.  But closing the studio sends the message to me that MS is getting out of the PC game business and sees no future for the RTS market on consoles. 
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2008, 01:39:47 PM »

Microsoft is every bit as committed to PC gaming as a whole, as it was to the MMO market!...

Oops.  Roll Eyes

I imagine the pundits will read it as:
-Microsoft sucks! (not a very original thought icon_razz)
-You can't survive as a PC-game-only developer in today's market (the idea being Halo Wars came too late to "save" them), and pundits will lump this in with Flagship Studios, Iron Lore, Westwood Studios and others though they're clearly all different situations
-If your name isn't Blizzard or Relic, you can't survive as an RTS-only dev in today's market.
-The economy sucks, everybody is suffering, across many different industries, and this is just another illustration

Because pundits must oversimplify everything. 
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2008, 03:52:07 PM »

Every time I hear about another Microsoft game studio being shutdown it makes me wonder if there'll ever be another Xbox. Not being able to profit on games, loosing 1 billion due to poor manufacturing decisions, loosing the HD Media war. No matter which angle I view it from it all seems to add up to an exit from the console market for them. I'd say they might even do a complete exit from game software altogether....but then I remember there's Flight Simulator. slywink

BTW I agree that this signals that Halo Wars will more than likely not live up to expectations.
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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2008, 05:19:07 PM »

Quote from: kronovan on September 10, 2008, 03:52:07 PM

Every time I hear about another Microsoft game studio being shutdown it makes me wonder if there'll ever be another Xbox. Not being able to profit on games, loosing 1 billion due to poor manufacturing decisions, loosing the HD Media war.

AFAIK, the Xbox division has been profitable in the quarters since Halo 3 released.  Whether those profits will ultimately add up enough to make the 360 venture (or the entire Xbox line as a whole) profitable remains to be determined. 
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2008, 06:09:12 PM »

wow, that sucks.  remember the hints at the back of the manual for aoe3 with the 4th and 5th games hinted to be a modern era and a future era rts?  those could have been interesting.  now we'll never know. 

why they couldn't have just cut ensemble loose like they did with bungie.  let them survive on their own merits if the market exists. at least it would have been a chance. 

pubs should do that more rather than shut the studio down.  let them go with first right of refusal to publish the next few games. 

maybe they can  get together on the outside and start their own studio again and try to refresh the genre.
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« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2008, 10:26:25 PM »

Wow, so what's the tally?

RIP

Carbonated Games
Digital Anvil
Hired Gun
FASA Interactive
Indie Built

and now

Ensemble

Bungie got out.  What's the over/under on Turn 10?  Any chance they'll survive Forza 3's release?  You'd have to guess that Rare and Lionhead are safe, but if you'd asked me yesterday, I'd have had Ensemble on that list too.
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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2008, 10:50:59 PM »

rare has one last chance in my eyes:  bk nuts & bolts.  if that flops, say goodbye.  viva pinata has already shown that it's not any where as popular as ms expected it be, so i don't think that alone is enough to keep them around, and perfect dark isn't big enough to help.
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« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2008, 11:36:32 PM »

Quote from: Caine on September 10, 2008, 10:50:59 PM

rare has one last chance in my eyes:  bk nuts & bolts.  if that flops, say goodbye.  viva pinata has already shown that it's not any where as popular as ms expected it be, so i don't think that alone is enough to keep them around, and perfect dark isn't big enough to help.

Yeah, in hindsight it seems Nintendo knew exactly what they were doing when they sold Rare.
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« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2008, 01:57:09 AM »

The Ensemble development house is gone, but the Ensemble developers will certainly turn up elsewhere in the games industry.
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« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2008, 02:19:24 AM »

The Ensemble managment is already creating a new company, so it looks like a lot of people will end up there.  It's not quite a "you're all fired" scenario, as MS has apparently offered many of the staff jobs elsewhere in the company.
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« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2008, 02:21:28 AM »

I don't think MS is stupid enough to close Rare when their game is highly rated. They tried sending VP to Krome, and look what happened.

"Viva Piņata: Party Animals was developed by a team of roughly 60 people at Krome Studios, the first Australian studio to develop a first-party game for Microsoft.[1] The involvement of Rare, responsible for the original Viva Piņata, was limited to supplying artwork and information about the game's visual style, while Krome retained full control over the design.[1]

When asked why the studio was chosen, Microsoft VP Shane Kim explained, "They've got a long history in the industry and we have a ton of respect for their work", referring to Krome's previous efforts on series such as Ty the Tasmanian Tiger and Spyro the Dragon.[2] In the same interview, Kim also noted that the Viva Piņata franchise was important to the success of the Xbox 360 in the casual game space. He summarized, "Our aspiration is to win this generation, and in order to do that, we know we have to appeal beyond the core gamer segment".[2]"
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2008, 03:51:35 AM »

I just emailed a friend of mine whose husband works there. Hopefully I'll have some news on this tonight or tomorrow.
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« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2008, 03:55:22 AM »

Quote from: Hrothgar on September 10, 2008, 10:26:25 PM

Wow, so what's the tally?

RIP

Carbonated Games
Digital Anvil
Hired Gun
FASA Interactive
Indie Built

and now

Ensemble

Bungie got out.  What's the over/under on Turn 10?  Any chance they'll survive Forza 3's release?  You'd have to guess that Rare and Lionhead are safe, but if you'd asked me yesterday, I'd have had Ensemble on that list too.

These are/were all Microsoft owned/controlled companies/studios? It seem that being associated with the giant is little insurance against what happens to so many, many "independent" gaming companies/studios like Stainless Steel, Looking Glass, SimTex, Broderbund, MicroProse, etc., etc. ) Years and years of successful (or at least viable) companies dissolve, but PC gaming goes on.

It's still disturbing though to realize that your game can be a success and yet you're out of work the next day. (Probably though, some gamer who hated your product is glad you're company's defunct. Like the guy who wanted Bennigans or BestBuy or EBGames or [your bete noire here], don't cross the public in the slightest way, say by having a rude salesclerk, or they'll be dancing when your doors are shuttered.)
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« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2008, 04:16:48 AM »

Microsoft actually sold Indie Built (formerly Indie Games formerly Access Software) to Take Two, who then closed them down two years later.  The others were all either closed or dissolved/absorbed by MGS. 

And I would happen to agree that if Banjo Kazooie: N&B fails Rare is perhaps next on the chopping block. 
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« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2008, 05:28:10 AM »

It's interesting to see the different takes the two main console competitors are taking right now.  MS started out with some good internal studios but now are primarily 3rd party/2nd party deals for exclusivity (or using their Windows compatability to make it easy to port from PC developers).  Sony has a lot of first party developers and holds onto them and their identities, but up until recently has had abysmal relations with third party developers.

It would seem that running a studio just has a lot of extra costs associated with it that MS gets better returns by just contracting out with third parties like Epic to create new games.  They get all the benefit of a new high profile game without paying to support an entire studio.

The ex-Ensemble guys are already forming a new studio.  I think this a situation where MS would have just let them go, but the PR of losing another studio name would have been bad, so they just close the studio instead of giving the buyout option.
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« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2008, 12:01:30 PM »

Large corporations all have different angles than most "normal" people. Many decisions that seems strange, shutting down divsions, areas, that seems to be profitable, are purely fiscal (I hope thats the english word) - They largely depend on them being financially stable ON PAPER, no matter what the reality is, and things like these could simply be the shifting of numbers on pagers in the larger corporate end-goal...
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« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2008, 01:19:02 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on September 11, 2008, 05:28:10 AM

They get all the benefit of a new high profile game without paying to support an entire studio.

Not necessarilly true- they stand to make less because they are having to split the revenue with the developer and (in most cases) the publisher of the game, never mind that they generally have to offer some sort of incentive to the third party in the first place just to get the exclusive.  Of course the flip side is that third party exclusives probably mitigate the risk of titles under-performing. 

They also lose control of the IP and other elements as well.  MS doesn't have to worry about Sony getting Halo 4 but if they want to keep Bioshock 2 as even a timed exclusive they are going to have to pay up and even then Take 2 still might just opt for simultaneous release.  Or, even worse, maybe Sony decides to outspend MS and gets a high profile titles as a timed exclusive for them.  If Sony owned GTA and Final Fantasy then those formerly exclusive series would never have been released on 360. 

This is also contrary to where the rest of the industry is going.  Most people have been (naturally) looking at this from the standpoint of Microsoft the platform owner.  But from the standpoint of Microsoft Game Studios it's rather unusual since the general industry trend is seeing independent developers being purchased by the publishers.

Even with elements from Ensemble reforming their own independent studio, they may find it advantageous in a year or two to sell to a publisher.  There seems to be some speculation that what sunk Ensemble wasn't the financial performance of the games they have released (which have all been enormously successful) but the failure of some in-development unannounced games to materialize into something worthwhile.  Should something similar happen when they're independent, the results will likely be the same- closure. 

Which brings up the final concern- with relatively few AAA independent developers left, who does MS tap to developer their wholly owned IPs?  Should MS continue down this path and close Lionhead, Turn 10, and/or Rare then who can they get to develop future Fable, Banjo, and Forza titles without getting into a co-publishing agreement?  To this day I'm convinced that a big reason we haven't seen a single player KOTOR 3 is because Lucasarts couldn't find an independent RPG developer willing to take it on that also had the experience to handle such a high profile title. 
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« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2008, 01:21:05 PM »

I can't see how this surprises anyone, did we really need a fourth halo? I never played the second and barely the third but they were just average shooters. A fourth just seemed to be milking the rabid fanboys. And viva pinata? I've never understood why anyone would want to beat on virtual pinatas, sounds boring. Kinda like that little big planet game, why in the hell would they make a game about a family of dwarves/midgits/little people/whatever the pc term is these days... So many lame games...

I will miss AoE4/5 though.
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« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2008, 02:57:44 PM »

Quote from: ibdoomed on September 11, 2008, 01:21:05 PM

I can't see how this surprises anyone, did we really need a fourth halo? I never played the second and barely the third but they were just average shooters. A fourth just seemed to be milking the rabid fanboys. And viva pinata? I've never understood why anyone would want to beat on virtual pinatas, sounds boring. Kinda like that little big planet game, why in the hell would they make a game about a family of dwarves/midgits/little people/whatever the pc term is these days... So many lame games...

I will miss AoE4/5 though.

You seem misinformed...Ensemble is an RTS studio, they were never going to work on Halo 4 (which I'm guessing is still coming via Bungie or Gearbox or whomever Microsoft decides).

And Little Big Planet isn't about dwarves, midgets or little people.  It's...just wow.   retard
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« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2008, 06:01:26 PM »

Quote from: ibdoomed on September 11, 2008, 01:21:05 PM

I can't see how this surprises anyone, did we really need a fourth halo? I never played the second and barely the third but they were just average shooters. A fourth just seemed to be milking the rabid fanboys. And viva pinata? I've never understood why anyone would want to beat on virtual pinatas, sounds boring. Kinda like that little big planet game, why in the hell would they make a game about a family of dwarves/midgits/little people/whatever the pc term is these days... So many lame games...

I will miss AoE4/5 though.

To add to EngineNo9's comments, Viva Pinata isn't about beating on virtual pinatas.

I personally don't understand the draw of LittleBigPlanet, but doing a little research before going on your rant might make your comments sound a bit more relevant.
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« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2008, 02:43:47 AM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on September 11, 2008, 02:57:44 PM

Quote from: ibdoomed on September 11, 2008, 01:21:05 PM

I can't see how this surprises anyone, did we really need a fourth halo? I never played the second and barely the third but they were just average shooters. A fourth just seemed to be milking the rabid fanboys. And viva pinata? I've never understood why anyone would want to beat on virtual pinatas, sounds boring. Kinda like that little big planet game, why in the hell would they make a game about a family of dwarves/midgits/little people/whatever the pc term is these days... So many lame games...

I will miss AoE4/5 though.

You seem misinformed...Ensemble is an RTS studio, they were never going to work on Halo 4 (which I'm guessing is still coming via Bungie or Gearbox or whomever Microsoft decides).

And Little Big Planet isn't about dwarves, midgets or little people.  It's...just wow.   retard

« Last Edit: September 12, 2008, 02:47:15 AM by ravenvii » Logged
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« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2008, 02:18:31 PM »

Quote from: Graham on September 11, 2008, 06:01:26 PM

To add to EngineNo9's comments, Viva Pinata isn't about beating on virtual pinatas.

I personally don't understand the draw of LittleBigPlanet, but doing a little research before going on your rant might make your comments sound a bit more relevant.

If game companies decide on lame names then they aren't going to get a second look from a lot of gamers. Judge the book by it's cover. If you name your game Halo Wars, who wouldn't think it's the next installment of Halo and ignore it? If you name your game viva pinata, who's not to think it's about pinatas? The same with little big planet, name your game after a tv show and people will think it's a spinoff of the show. Are these people so limited in imagination that they cannot come up with a better name? It's not all lost though, just checking the latest round of game names: warhammer online, the name leads me to believe it's an online game based around the warhammer universe and OMG it is! Rock Band 2, never played rock band 1 but this sounds like a sequal and it sounds like you'd be acting the part of a rock band, wow amazing. Fallout 3, an evolution in the fallout series.. is it? Fable 2, sequal to fable? Star Wars Force Unleashed sounds like a star wars game where your probably a jedi since it implies you get force powers... true?  NHL 09... long shot since I don't do sports but I'm guessing it's about hockey.

All I'm saying is, if you pick a stupid name for your game, you'll get stupid sales.
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« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2008, 02:28:32 PM »

Quote from: ibdoomed on September 12, 2008, 02:18:31 PM

Judge the book by it's cover.

Um, no you got that wrong- it's that you're *not* supposed to judge a book by it's cover. 
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« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2008, 06:00:19 PM »

Quote from: ibdoomed on September 12, 2008, 02:18:31 PM

If game companies decide on lame names then they aren't going to get a second look from a lot of gamers. Judge the book by it's cover. If you name your game Halo Wars, who wouldn't think it's the next installment of Halo and ignore it?

Apparently ignorant gamers like yourself.  It's a prequel set in the Halo universe, but it's a different kind of game.  Ever hear of a prequel?  Did you think that Batman Begins was going to be the follow up to Batman and Robin?

Quote
If you name your game viva pinata, who's not to think it's about pinatas?

It is about pinatas, but it's not about smashing them.  Five seconds of research and some talent at reading comprehension would discover this.

Quote
The same with little big planet, name your game after a tv show and people will think it's a spinoff of the show. Are these people so limited in imagination that they cannot come up with a better name?

Is LittleBigPlanet the name of a TV show?  I haven't heard of the show, and I didn't find anything doing a Google search on "LittleBigPlanet TV Series."

Quote
It's not all lost though, just checking the latest round of game names: warhammer online, the name leads me to believe it's an online game based around the warhammer universe and OMG it is! Rock Band 2, never played rock band 1 but this sounds like a sequal and it sounds like you'd be acting the part of a rock band, wow amazing. Fallout 3, an evolution in the fallout series.. is it? Fable 2, sequal to fable? Star Wars Force Unleashed sounds like a star wars game where your probably a jedi since it implies you get force powers... true?  NHL 09... long shot since I don't do sports but I'm guessing it's about hockey.

You are bitching about originality and most the examples you give are sequels to other games?  Is it really original to put a number after a game?

Quote
All I'm saying is, if you pick a stupid name for your game, you'll get stupid sales.

Your post has done more to proving my point than I could ever do by myself.  Thank you!
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« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2008, 06:55:34 PM »

Quote from: Graham on September 12, 2008, 06:00:19 PM

Quote from: ibdoomed on September 12, 2008, 02:18:31 PM

If game companies decide on lame names then they aren't going to get a second look from a lot of gamers. Judge the book by it's cover. If you name your game Halo Wars, who wouldn't think it's the next installment of Halo and ignore it?

Apparently ignorant gamers like yourself.  It's a prequel set in the Halo universe, but it's a different kind of game.  Ever hear of a prequel?  Did you think that Batman Begins was going to be the follow up to Batman and Robin?

No, but it's not called Halo Begins is it? It's not even an FPS game. Batman Begins was still an action movie about Batman, not a romance about Riddler.
Quote
Quote
If you name your game viva pinata, who's not to think it's about pinatas?

It is about pinatas, but it's not about smashing them.  Five seconds of research and some talent at reading comprehension would discover this.

Exactly. Because of the name I wouldn't give it a second glance let alone searching for anything about it.

Quote
Quote
The same with little big planet, name your game after a tv show and people will think it's a spinoff of the show. Are these people so limited in imagination that they cannot come up with a better name?

Is LittleBigPlanet the name of a TV show?  I haven't heard of the show, and I didn't find anything doing a Google search on "LittleBigPlanet TV Series."

I've never watched the show and I don't remember what channel it's on but they have commercials during something else I watch.

Quote
Quote
It's not all lost though, just checking the latest round of game names: warhammer online, the name leads me to believe it's an online game based around the warhammer universe and OMG it is! Rock Band 2, never played rock band 1 but this sounds like a sequal and it sounds like you'd be acting the part of a rock band, wow amazing. Fallout 3, an evolution in the fallout series.. is it? Fable 2, sequal to fable? Star Wars Force Unleashed sounds like a star wars game where your probably a jedi since it implies you get force powers... true?  NHL 09... long shot since I don't do sports but I'm guessing it's about hockey.

You are bitching about originality and most the examples you give are sequels to other games?  Is it really original to put a number after a game?

Where was I bitching about originality. I was commenting that it's not a shock that ensamble is closing. Regardless, there are plenty of examples that are not sequals and the first editions generally ring true. From the name Halo, I didn't give it a second look as halo is generally a religious term. It was at least a year after its release that I ran into it (since it was the PC version as I hate my 360). Fable intrigued me as I thought it was going to be a storytelling game, and it was. Rock Band sounds like a game about a rock band. Fallout sounds like nuclear fallout, which it is. Warhammer online, to my knowledge, is not a sequal. Grid, I never looked at it as I thought it would be a tetris puzzle game until I ran into it on gametap or something, what does a grid have to do with racing? Dirt on the other hand, sounds like a racing game. Puzzle Fighter, sounds like a fighting game with puzzle pieces? Crackdown, I thought it was about being a drug dealer.[/quote]

Quote
Quote
All I'm saying is, if you pick a stupid name for your game, you'll get stupid sales.

Your post has done more to proving my point than I could ever do by myself.  Thank you!

HA! Proof!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2008, 06:57:07 PM by ibdoomed » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2008, 07:19:06 PM »

Quote from: ibdoomed on September 12, 2008, 02:18:31 PM

Are these people so limited in imagination that they cannot come up with a better name?

That's where you basically bitched about originality.  So you complain about their lack of imagination but want them to name the game something obvious about what type of game it is?

 
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Regardless, there are plenty of examples that are not sequals and the first editions generally ring true. From the name Halo, I didn't give it a second look as halo is generally a religious term. It was at least a year after its release that I ran into it

All I'm saying is, if you pick a stupid name for your game, you'll get stupid sales.

Yea that name really killed Halo sales.  It's your loss that you can not see past somethings name.
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ibdoomed
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« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2008, 07:42:18 PM »

Quote from: DOSHIGH on September 12, 2008, 07:19:06 PM

Quote from: ibdoomed on September 12, 2008, 02:18:31 PM

Are these people so limited in imagination that they cannot come up with a better name?

That's where you basically bitched about originality.  So you complain about their lack of imagination but want them to name the game something obvious about what type of game it is?

Ahh, see you can have imagination without being original. Creating a game where you're a guy in a leather jacket driving a smart car that talks and hunting down criminals is cool and you can name it Knight Rider, that's imagining but far from original (sounds like GTA). Now if you name it the same but it's a game about medieval jousting, we have a problem since (to my knowledge) that would be very original but not imaginitive.

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Yea that name really killed Halo sales.  It's your loss that you can not see past somethings name.

Exactly, it's all about marketing.
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« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2008, 01:28:13 AM »

I'd avoid using the word ring; you sound like you're marketing marriage.

Oh, and dirt? By your logic it should be a gardening game. Viva Pinata, however, has a pretty successful TV show since the first game.
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« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2008, 02:56:41 AM »

Quote from: ibdoomed on September 12, 2008, 02:18:31 PM

Quote from: Graham on September 11, 2008, 06:01:26 PM

To add to EngineNo9's comments, Viva Pinata isn't about beating on virtual pinatas.

I personally don't understand the draw of LittleBigPlanet, but doing a little research before going on your rant might make your comments sound a bit more relevant.

If game companies decide on lame names then they aren't going to get a second look from a lot of gamers. Judge the book by it's cover. If you name your game Halo Wars, who wouldn't think it's the next installment of Halo and ignore it? If you name your game viva pinata, who's not to think it's about pinatas? The same with little big planet, name your game after a tv show and people will think it's a spinoff of the show. Are these people so limited in imagination that they cannot come up with a better name? It's not all lost though, just checking the latest round of game names: warhammer online, the name leads me to believe it's an online game based around the warhammer universe and OMG it is! Rock Band 2, never played rock band 1 but this sounds like a sequal and it sounds like you'd be acting the part of a rock band, wow amazing. Fallout 3, an evolution in the fallout series.. is it? Fable 2, sequal to fable? Star Wars Force Unleashed sounds like a star wars game where your probably a jedi since it implies you get force powers... true?  NHL 09... long shot since I don't do sports but I'm guessing it's about hockey.

All I'm saying is, if you pick a stupid name for your game, you'll get stupid sales.

All I'm saying is, if you don't show marginal reading skills, people will think you're stupid.
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« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2008, 04:31:06 AM »

Can we ban somebody for being willfully ignorant? 

(other than R&P, which I assume is acceptable over there)
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« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2008, 11:35:45 PM »

BTW, the name of the show he's thinking of is probably "Little People, Big World". Sooo...not really that close.
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