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Author Topic: MS being sued over points  (Read 2074 times)
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CeeKay
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« on: January 26, 2010, 07:27:24 PM »

could this bring change to the Marketplace?  I'd love to see the points go away.
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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2010, 07:30:32 PM »

i am not really as bothered as everyone else seems to be about the points,sure if they are ripping us off somehow,i will take a free batch of points or whatever thankyou MS


we get 2100 points for £17.99 here,but you can get them cheaper if you shop about(i think they are cheaper through XBL actually),if it changed to say £20 cards in the future,like the PS3 does..that's how much you will be paying...£20,no shopping about
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2010, 07:43:00 PM »

i like the points - there i said it smile

dont know why, but id much rather spend $20 bucks and have those points, than constantly be drawing off a CC i input (i let mine expire ages ago and exclusively use cards for points and subs)

though i understand why people get annoyed that if they want something that cost $12 they have to spend $20.  what i didnt get is that it seems a lot of the people who dont like having extra points, are the ones who buy lots of stuff (anecdotal of course)
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2010, 07:44:43 PM »

ooooh but as an aside to this to make you really all scratch your heads about my preferences - id LOVE to see amazon pick up game addons too, rather than just arcade titles.
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2010, 08:03:58 PM »

Good, I hate the points system.  Having to spend $20 to buy a $15 game is freaking stupid.  Those extra points will typically go unused for months, and even when I do decide to use them, there never seems to be enough left over, and I have to buy even more.  It's genius from a money-making perspective, but I hate it as the end consumer.
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2010, 08:10:05 PM »

as a frequent buyer of RB dlc(Which is pretty much all i buy on live) this will be GLORIOUS! eff you MS for needing to put 10 bucks in when all i need is 40 god damn points. In fact, I hate it so much I haven't bothered to buy much RB dlc because I'm not about to put 10 bucks in for 2 songs and have the rest sit there getting free interest off me.
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2010, 08:17:30 PM »

Quote from: jersoc on January 26, 2010, 08:10:05 PM

eff you MS for needing to put 10 bucks in when all i need is 40 god damn points.

I assume you mean $6.25.
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2010, 08:24:26 PM »

whatever, i dont remember. either way it's bullshit.
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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2010, 08:30:49 PM »

I don't mind the points system.  

I usually buy a 1600 point card in cash every few weeks to feed my Rock Band DLC habit.  If I am short the points I just wait until I get another card to buy the song.  I would hate to see all of those two dollar charges on my credit card statement every month.  
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2010, 08:35:46 PM »

It's a screw job. Money sits in their account drawing interest. I hope it goes away forever.
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2010, 08:42:26 PM »

I like the idea of straight cash. I think I have 260 MS points or some crap sitting in my account... what good does it do?
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2010, 08:51:56 PM »

It would be nice if they did what Sony does and allow you to basically pay only what you need to when buying something.  Of course, Sony messes it up too by having a $5 minimum, so you can still wind up with extra money on your account.  Better than nothing though.
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2010, 09:19:09 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on January 26, 2010, 08:51:56 PM

It would be nice if they did what Sony does and allow you to basically pay only what you need to when buying something.  Of course, Sony messes it up too by having a $5 minimum, so you can still wind up with extra money on your account.  Better than nothing though.

it'd be great if sony let you pay what the item costs. A movie rental is 3.99. Minimum buy in is 5.00. I hope they get sued next.
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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2010, 09:27:38 PM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on January 26, 2010, 09:19:09 PM

Quote from: Chaz on January 26, 2010, 08:51:56 PM

It would be nice if they did what Sony does and allow you to basically pay only what you need to when buying something.  Of course, Sony messes it up too by having a $5 minimum, so you can still wind up with extra money on your account.  Better than nothing though.

it'd be great if sony let you pay what the item costs. A movie rental is 3.99. Minimum buy in is 5.00. I hope they get sued next.

Nah.  They'll just raise movie rentals to $5.00
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« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2010, 09:32:44 PM »

I never have leftover points....then again I have RB2 and Beatles....
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« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2010, 09:33:43 PM »

there are transaction fees they have to pay on purchases so I understand a minimum purchase.  points are still a pain though.
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« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2010, 09:35:31 PM »

8k points and nothing to spend them on.  crybaby
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« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2010, 09:58:26 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on January 26, 2010, 09:27:38 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on January 26, 2010, 09:19:09 PM

Quote from: Chaz on January 26, 2010, 08:51:56 PM

It would be nice if they did what Sony does and allow you to basically pay only what you need to when buying something.  Of course, Sony messes it up too by having a $5 minimum, so you can still wind up with extra money on your account.  Better than nothing though.

it'd be great if sony let you pay what the item costs. A movie rental is 3.99. Minimum buy in is 5.00. I hope they get sued next.

Nah.  They'll just raise movie rentals to $5.00

This. As Harkonis points out, there are transaction fees involved. Sony would end up losing money by not having a minimum transaction fee. The choice they have is to either:

1) Lose money on transactions below a certain amount.
2) Have a minimum purchase amount (letting you keep the leftover money in your account) set at a level that ensures Sony doesn't lose money.
3) Set the minimum price for anything on PSN to $5.

Of those three options, I'm sure we can all agree that number 2 is ideal under these circumstances.
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« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2010, 10:00:26 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on January 26, 2010, 09:33:43 PM

there are transaction fees they have to pay on purchases so I understand a minimum purchase.  points are still a pain though.

Apple lets me spend just .99 cents at a time...why can't Sony?
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« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2010, 10:09:37 PM »

Quote from: The Grue on January 26, 2010, 10:00:26 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on January 26, 2010, 09:33:43 PM

there are transaction fees they have to pay on purchases so I understand a minimum purchase.  points are still a pain though.

Apple lets me spend just .99 cents at a time...why can't Sony?

I don't think apple minds making less money on small purchases and is going for market saturation.  apples to oranges (or apples to microsofts.)
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« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2010, 10:28:11 PM »

Quote from: The Grue on January 26, 2010, 10:00:26 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on January 26, 2010, 09:33:43 PM

there are transaction fees they have to pay on purchases so I understand a minimum purchase.  points are still a pain though.

Apple lets me spend just .99 cents at a time...why can't Sony?

Probably because Apple claims they're not trying to make money on $.99 purchases.
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« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2010, 04:52:56 AM »

I like points for the simple fact that I can find them on sale at places like Target and usually get 1600 points for $15 (plus tax) instead of $20. 
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« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2010, 06:17:56 PM »

Fuck Microsoft.
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« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2010, 06:27:19 PM »

Yeah, the joke will be on us when Microsoft is forced to switch from the point system to a price system, but has to raise the price of Live and points to make up for the money lost on this class action lawsuit.

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« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2010, 09:39:41 PM »

With Sony I get charged tax when I buy stuff from them, with MS I don't.  If they change their system, I hope I still don't get charged tax.  I live in Massachussetts.
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« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2010, 11:31:36 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on January 26, 2010, 09:58:26 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on January 26, 2010, 09:27:38 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on January 26, 2010, 09:19:09 PM

Quote from: Chaz on January 26, 2010, 08:51:56 PM

It would be nice if they did what Sony does and allow you to basically pay only what you need to when buying something.  Of course, Sony messes it up too by having a $5 minimum, so you can still wind up with extra money on your account.  Better than nothing though.

it'd be great if sony let you pay what the item costs. A movie rental is 3.99. Minimum buy in is 5.00. I hope they get sued next.

Nah.  They'll just raise movie rentals to $5.00

This. As Harkonis points out, there are transaction fees involved. Sony would end up losing money by not having a minimum transaction fee. The choice they have is to either:

1) Lose money on transactions below a certain amount.
2) Have a minimum purchase amount (letting you keep the leftover money in your account) set at a level that ensures Sony doesn't lose money.
3) Set the minimum price for anything on PSN to $5.

Of those three options, I'm sure we can all agree that number 2 is ideal under these circumstances.

Well, no, ideal would be number 1, but I can see why that won't happen.
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« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2010, 02:32:41 AM »

Quote from: Cragmyre on January 27, 2010, 09:39:41 PM

With Sony I get charged tax when I buy stuff from them, with MS I don't.  If they change their system, I hope I still don't get charged tax.  I live in Massachussetts.

Odd, I live in Georgia and just bought stuff of PSN with no tax.
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« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2010, 03:57:56 AM »

Quote from: morlac on January 28, 2010, 02:32:41 AM

Quote from: Cragmyre on January 27, 2010, 09:39:41 PM

With Sony I get charged tax when I buy stuff from them, with MS I don't.  If they change their system, I hope I still don't get charged tax.  I live in Massachussetts.

Odd, I live in Georgia and just bought stuff of PSN with no tax.

I think it may be because we have a Sony store in one of our outlets.  Still, not like I could physically buy something digitally in a Sony store.  frown
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« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2010, 09:29:48 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on January 26, 2010, 08:17:30 PM

Quote from: jersoc on January 26, 2010, 08:10:05 PM

eff you MS for needing to put 10 bucks in when all i need is 40 god damn points.

I assume you mean $6.25.

And that is why I don't like them very much.  I don't buy many DL games, and mostly nothing else of what they offer for points.  Therefore, whenever I see points charged for something, I have to figure it out all over.   If they told me they'd sell me a DL copy of Fable I for $20 - I'd know instantly that was a crappy deal.  With points, I never know, and I don't like looking it up every time, so I'm with the folks that prefer dollars/ pounds/ kroner/ euro, etc.  I wouldn't miss Points at all.

 icon_razz
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« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2010, 02:42:27 AM »

800 pts = $10

I did the math and make it a point to remember.  Right now, my balance is 300 points, meaning I have $3.75 locked in MS coffers.  Not a big deal to me.
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« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2010, 03:36:12 AM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on January 30, 2010, 02:42:27 AM

800 pts = $10

I did the math and make it a point to remember.  Right now, my balance is 300 points, meaning I have $3.75 locked in MS coffers.  Not a big deal to me.

But let's say you needed to spend 325 points to get something.  Now you have to pay $6.25 to get those 25 points.  This is my real problem with how MS does it, not so much me worrying about them making interest off of me.
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« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2010, 05:09:43 AM »

If it takes me 325 to purchase it, I'm going to think long and hard about it and maybe not make the purchase.  If I do have to make the purchase, I can likely sink some of that money into my Rock Band library.
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« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2010, 06:30:18 AM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on January 30, 2010, 02:42:27 AM

800 pts = $10

I did the math and make it a point to remember.  Right now, my balance is 300 points, meaning I have $3.75 locked in MS coffers.  Not a big deal to me.

Izzy, I thought you were one of US! ...erm, I mean a mature member - maybe not to the point that those calculations don't instantly get answered in your mind - like magic, for some of us... but still...

PS - I also "did the math and made it a point to remember" - but my memory didn't oblige me, so I'm still behind the 8-ball on this feature.   retard
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« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2010, 06:30:45 PM »

I'll take that as a complement.  I.m 33, but have rarely found that the priorities of people in my own age group are parallel to my own. 
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« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2010, 10:41:57 PM »

Quote from: Cragmyre on January 28, 2010, 03:57:56 AM

Quote from: morlac on January 28, 2010, 02:32:41 AM

Quote from: Cragmyre on January 27, 2010, 09:39:41 PM

With Sony I get charged tax when I buy stuff from them, with MS I don't.  If they change their system, I hope I still don't get charged tax.  I live in Massachussetts.

Odd, I live in Georgia and just bought stuff of PSN with no tax.

I think it may be because we have a Sony store in one of our outlets.  Still, not like I could physically buy something digitally in a Sony store.  frown

You can't walk into an Amazon warehouse and buy a product from them either, but if there's a warehouse in your state they have to charge you tax.
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« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2010, 04:18:30 AM »

I have no real problem with the MS points system.  It would be nice if the points had a direct correlation to cash, just to simplify things, and a $1 minimum would be nice as well.  They would still get thier interest free loan but people could put out a bit less at a time that way.  Still things are pretty easy to figure out at 80 points per dollar (US).   
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« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2010, 05:26:49 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on January 30, 2010, 06:30:45 PM

I'll take that as a complement.  I.m 33, but have rarely found that the priorities of people in my own age group are parallel to my own. 

Oops, my mistake!  For some reason I thought you were - well, let's just say older than that.  Of course, now I'm wondering which 50-year old is here masquerading as a 30-something (well, in my mind anyway.)   ninja

I still think the points idea stinks - it always seemed suspicious to me, and not just the part where you end up with miscellaneous points that you can't spend without buying more.  I'm picturing people thinking, "Oh, wow, lookit that!  You can get 16 ga-billion points for only $20.  That must be a deal!" (Or is it 12 ga-billion, I can't remember.)   It would be interesting to see what percentage of people who actually spend the money, really know what they're doing.  There are a lot of gamers who are too young (or are restricted by the 'rents) to be doing they're own shopping.  Also, from most forums, it appears that every gamer is a male - so those poor, uninformed women in their lives could be responsible for a decent chunk of gaming gift purchases.  And then there are people like me - over 50 - who may be gamers, or Wii owners (I kid! I'm one, too!), or grandparents buying gifts for gamers.  I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I do believe that MS went with points, and not a one-to-one system, for a bad reason.. just not bad for them.

I figure that if MS only wanted you to pay extra for those leftover points they could have charged 625 points for a $6.25 game.  Unless they started selling points in sizes like .25 or 625 then they'd still get us to buy more to get another game, end up with more leftovers, and repeat.   I think if the system is simple, the consumer wins - add complexity, and the business wins.

And don't make me do that math again, or I'll make you get off my lawn!  I mean it this time!   Tongue
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« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2010, 06:49:26 PM »

lol.... someone should setup a shop for odd numbers of points paying what they cost + a small priemium....  What i mean is you can gift points... right?  so if I bought 1000 points.... and you need 40.... paypal me the $.50 (800/10= 80pts=$1) and I could gift you the 40 pts.... that solves the problem!
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« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2010, 11:07:11 PM »

Quote from: mytocles on February 01, 2010, 05:26:49 PM

I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I do believe that MS went with points, and not a one-to-one system, for a bad reason.. just not bad for them.

Indeed.  I remember reading recently some Microsoft executive defending the concept of points and saying that "200 points is 200 points, anywhere in the world," so the system is actually pretty transparent.  Well, yeah, but 200 points costs different amounts of money in different countries.  He must know that.  So he's a lying bastard, frankly.  Microsoft are out to rip people off with the points system, pure and simple.  Sure, they're not holding a gun to anyone's head, but don't ever believe they ever had any other intention.

Edit: Yes, I know, Sony and Nintendo are no better.
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« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2010, 12:25:39 AM »

I don't see how anyone is getting ripped off. I can see not liking the system or wishing there was a lower minimum purchase, but that's not being ripped off.
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