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Author Topic: Mount and Blade: With Fire and Sword  (Read 4216 times)
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CeeKay
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« on: February 02, 2011, 01:56:43 AM »

a brand new Mount & Blade game!

preview:  http://pc.ign.com/articles/114/1145516p1.html
another preview: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/reviews/previews/8587-Preview-Mount-Blade-With-Fire-and-Sword

main website: http://www.taleworlds.com/  (you need to click on the banner or the heading for it under 'other games' on the right hand side under the login)

firearms? 19th century Europe?

 IN!!
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 02:00:43 AM by CeeKay » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2011, 03:59:51 PM »

dev interview

the game in action

ambience and more gameplay
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morlac
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2011, 01:00:38 AM »

Count me in as well.  My all time favorite independent title.  Best bang for the buck game I have ever owned.  Probably more of the same but I feel guilty about what I payed for the other ones.
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2011, 02:23:19 AM »

I'd buy it but still depends on pricing. It's basically the same M&B core game, so if they priced it under $20 it's a buy for me, otherwise I'd stick to mods of M&B and Warband til F&S goes on sale.
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2011, 09:28:02 PM »

This is bullshit, everything they're showing has already been done in free community mods for warband.

All they're doing is taking the stuff from community mods, putting it into another TC of their own and charging for it.

This company was great when it was producing the original game but they've gone to a system of completely ripping off their customer base since the original.

Zero respect for them anymore.  F&S is a complete ripoff, in more ways than one.
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CeeKay
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2011, 03:21:16 AM »

Quote from: morlac on March 04, 2011, 01:00:38 AM

Probably more of the same but I feel guilty about what I payed for the other ones.

LOL, I probably paid a pittance for it too with as many times as they had it on sale there for a while.
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« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2011, 04:03:31 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on March 06, 2011, 03:21:16 AM

Quote from: morlac on March 04, 2011, 01:00:38 AM

Probably more of the same but I feel guilty about what I payed for the other ones.

LOL, I probably paid a pittance for it too with as many times as they had it on sale there for a while.

Yep, the dollar to gaming hour ratio on this one broke the scale.  A few decimal points to the right of a dollar for sure. 
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CeeKay
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2011, 03:47:55 PM »

Quote from: Tokek on March 04, 2011, 02:23:19 AM

I'd buy it but still depends on pricing.

$14.99 on May 3rd.

here's a new trailer, titled Siege: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_02fFEh-9E
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« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2011, 05:59:12 PM »

I have't purchased any of the M&B games, but I'm thinking of getting it. Is it worth spending the extra $ for the original SP, or is Warband where all the action, fun and replay value is at?
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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2011, 06:24:40 PM »

Quote from: kronovan on April 26, 2011, 05:59:12 PM

I have't purchased any of the M&B games, but I'm thinking of getting it. Is it worth spending the extra $ for the original SP, or is Warband where all the action, fun and replay value is at?

IIRC Warband is the base game plus MP with some other enhancements.  However, you may want to hold off and see if they run a sale in celebration of the new release.
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kronovan
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« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2011, 07:14:51 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on April 26, 2011, 06:24:40 PM

Quote from: kronovan on April 26, 2011, 05:59:12 PM

I have't purchased any of the M&B games, but I'm thinking of getting it. Is it worth spending the extra $ for the original SP, or is Warband where all the action, fun and replay value is at?

IIRC Warband is the base game plus MP with some other enhancements.  However, you may want to hold off and see if they run a sale in celebration of the new release.

Hmm...well that means Steam isn't being completely honest, because they sell the M&B Complete that includes the original game and Warband for $10 more. It wouldn't be the 1st time they've done something less than above board - they currently sell both TW Medieval II and Medieval II Gold for $9.99.  icon_confused

I'll definitely wait until May 3rd before I buy it.
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« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2011, 07:32:46 PM »

Warband is a stand-alone sequel which improves on everything they did with M&B.

Why get both instead of just one or the other?  Mods.  There are many more mods available for base M&B, than for Warband.  However, Warband is a better base game already and has the same growing mod community established in the base game.

Might as well wait and get all three, though, as already stated.
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2011, 06:07:48 PM »

Quote from: kronovan on April 26, 2011, 07:14:51 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on April 26, 2011, 06:24:40 PM

Quote from: kronovan on April 26, 2011, 05:59:12 PM

I have't purchased any of the M&B games, but I'm thinking of getting it. Is it worth spending the extra $ for the original SP, or is Warband where all the action, fun and replay value is at?

IIRC Warband is the base game plus MP with some other enhancements.  However, you may want to hold off and see if they run a sale in celebration of the new release.

Hmm...well that means Steam isn't being completely honest, because they sell the M&B Complete that includes the original game and Warband for $10 more. It wouldn't be the 1st time they've done something less than above board - they currently sell both TW Medieval II and Medieval II Gold for $9.99.  icon_confused

I'll definitely wait until May 3rd before I buy it.

speaking of a sale  biggrin
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kronovan
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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2011, 10:33:33 PM »

Any idea how long the sale will last?
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CeeKay
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2011, 11:17:27 PM »

Quote from: kronovan on April 28, 2011, 10:33:33 PM

Any idea how long the sale will last?

til 10 AM pacific on Monday.
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« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2011, 12:05:51 AM »

Big Download has the soundtrack available for free download.
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« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2011, 03:03:17 PM »

pre-oirder on Steam and guess what you get?

Spoiler for Hiden:
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« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2011, 02:14:31 PM »

Release/unlock is in about 3 hrs.....you can still pre-order on steam for 13.50

I have....
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« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2011, 02:21:47 PM »

I forgot to pre-order, but I'm not worried since it's only a buck fifty off.  I got a couple other games I really should finish tonight before I give myself the added temptation  icon_lol
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« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2011, 08:56:55 PM »

I got this, and I'm pretty underwhelmed at the moment. The base game seems to be exactly the same as the previous two games. The graphics are identical, down to much of the artwork used for inventory items. You just run around, build up a party and fight random battles. The guns are pretty much like crossbows: powerful and slow to reload. The only thing is that these crossbows can snipe you from across the map. Right now my tactic is to wait behind my line of musketmen so I don't get killed immediately, and then when the enemy comes close I charge with my melee fighters. This is basically what I did in the first two games.

My first impressions are that you should probably wait for the Summer Steam Sale.
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« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2011, 11:38:06 PM »

Demo!
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Lord Percy
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« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2011, 05:30:05 AM »

FYI, I think they took out the option to upgrade your troops. I've been in quite a few battles already, and I haven't upgraded a single troop yet. All those peasants are leaving my army as soon as my army is full.
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« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2011, 05:31:45 AM »

Quote from: Lord Percy on May 04, 2011, 05:30:05 AM

FYI, I think they took out the option to upgrade your troops. I've been in quite a few battles already, and I haven't upgraded a single troop yet. All those peasants are leaving my army as soon as my army is full.

What?  That sounds like a weird thing to drop.  Part of the fun of building up your army was recruiting peasants and training them into elite soldiers.
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« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2011, 05:45:47 AM »

In the same camp as Lord Percy..

Bought the game, played it a bit, and really felt I should love it, since its goddamn musketeers you start out fighting with, but...

I'm kinda meh on it - I have no options at the beginning for making the character type I want, my armor sucks, I can't level my troops, villagers won't help me with recruits, and in general, the bands of 30, 40, and 50 bandints roaming about are pretty damn hard to avoid, making it a game of guessing AI pathing instead of one of figthing.

I'll wait till the community modded this unto something I like, and play M&B:W Brythwalden instead...
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« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2011, 11:51:36 AM »

I will play it some more but I am leaning towards just going back to Warband.
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« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2011, 07:11:01 PM »

Not bothering to realize or learn the differences in how this "premium total conversion" works doesn't mean it totally blows.

There's completely new mechanics to upgrading and equipping your armies now.

Mercs are also much easier and cheaper to hire to fill the void till you can train faction troops (you must first JOIN the faction to train it's troops).  Troops aren't gotten from the basic villages all over the map anymore...you train them in the towns once you're in that town's faction.

Good grief.  "It's the same so it sucks, but it's not the same, so it sucks!"

Faction troops, once obtained, are upgraded the same way they used to be....so clearly they didn't remove the mechanic and create suckage...but hey...since faction troops are upgraded the same way as warband, this sucks, just play warband...

You want new and different or the same? don't ding it either way for both...

Merc troops have a whole new mechanic for equipping and hiring whatever mercs you want however you want...that's MORE customization than you had access to before.
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« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2011, 08:15:46 PM »

They certainly don't explain any of the differences at any point at all. I'm still playing it in hopes of it getting better, but the first 15 or so days of game time have been relatively disappointing. I was only just allowed to join one of the factions as a mercenary captain, so we'll see what happens.
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« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2011, 08:30:30 PM »

Its actually not - fuzz - The fact that you can't level up your mercenaries is apparently a bug, since the eastern European versions will let you do so. Also, that version has cannons and boats, which was what I thought would be in this one.

The quest lines aren't there for all factions as well, which is pretty weird.

The game was touted as an rpg in the world of mount and blade, made by Taleworlds, but it really isnt. Its a game made primarily by another company with some effort by the original authors as well. The rpg part isn't much more than in Warband, actually, one might claim even less so, since they've taken out a lot of things from Warband and semi-added a story that really doesn't work very well.

Now, the game was quite cheap, and I'm beginning to understand why. I think, as I stated earlier, that in a 3-4 months it will be a lot better IF the modding community doesnt just ignore it - right now there's a lot of backlash over at the forums, and moderators locking down and deleting threads they don't approve of, so - it seems they probably know it isn't their finest hour.

Most of what's in the game has already been modded into Warband by the community, except for some better models /art assets.
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« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2011, 11:28:29 PM »

I've reailzed it is all buggered up:(

Your not supposed to be able to upgrade tavern mercs....but apparently no troops in the whole game are upgradable in the english release...they are in the original language version.

Hopefully they'll patch it up soon.

It was certainly intended that they be upgradable!  Everything says they're supposed to be.  I just got beyond the tavern merc stage myself and realized that it wasn't workin as the documentation says it should:(
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« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2011, 11:30:12 PM »

Well, art/assets wise, if you played Floris Expanded Mod pack, you've seen way better art graphics and castles already anyhow.

It seems i've been a bit hasty today...this release does blow chunks of shit:)


edit: The devs do seem to be aware of the bugs in at least the steam release of the game....apparently the demo version that's out now is working in regards to troop upgrades, etc, but not the international for pay release....

Here's hoping they fix the crap fast so we can at least play it as intended.
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« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2011, 01:11:40 PM »

Good morning Troop Tree.

Proving that whoever is developing?? F&S sucks balls, this year at least, the community has released a comprehensive troop tree and troop upgrade fix for the game pending an official patch.

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,168705.0.html

Enjoy.  I'm off to install it now.  So far the whole thread is quite positive with lots of confirmations everything seems to work.


edit: there's also a sticky on the F&S forum with regards to an update to Tweak MB with minimal options already available for tweaking F&S.  Apparently the "module system">>?? isn't released yet so they dont have full options.  But what's there are good useful options.  Going hunting for how to increase battle size next.  Can't stand dealing with freakin 60 units a side and constant reinforcements and no battle lines...that's just retarded they havnt upgraded the slider in game yet with the modern computer tech allowing us to handle over 700 troops on the field easily....

edit:

Found this for changing the battle size manually:

Spoiler for Hiden:
Go to C:\Users\<USERNAME>\Documents\Mount&Blade With Fire and Sword\
and open rgl_config.txt

Find the line "battle_size =" with a number
# = battle size of
0 = 30
1 = 150
2 = 270

etc.

Or, algebraically:
Number to Input into the RGL file = (Number of Troops You Want - 30) / 120
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 01:48:56 PM by Fuzzballx » Logged
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« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2011, 06:12:40 PM »

I'm not so sure about the combat in this game. I necessarily spend the first few minutes just hiding far behind my own line of troops, because a single bullet can kill you, depending on your health. Seeing as half of all units have muskets or pistols, there is way too much random death in this game. It's not like I can do anything useful while I'm hiding behind my troops either, because firearms are too inaccurate to do much good from a distance (except when wielded by the AI, it seems). You then need to advance your melee, because you're nowhere near safe until the enemy musketmen are forced to switch to melee as well. Only THEN can you run around shooting and hacking people to bits, like in the previous Mount & Blades.

I dunno, Taleworlds had a lot of goodwill from me when the first M&B came out, because I got seemingly endless amounts of entertainment from it. They lost some of that goodwill when they released Warband, because in my opinion M&B was far from finished, and at that point I had to pay again to get further updates. And now they release this buggy mess with the exact same pointless campaign map. That goodwill is definitely gone. So far With Fire and Sword isn't much more than a cosmetic update to the first M&B. Muskets are just crossbows that produce noise and smoke, and the game in between fights still feels completely amateurish and unfinished. I will stop playing this game until they patch it up, it's just not very enjoyable as it is.
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« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2011, 08:26:42 PM »

Same pointless campaign map?

This one has a totally new map that is based on historical eastern europe...not calradia...  That'd be kinda one of the first things you'd notice when playing it...

I'm not sure what you expected...playing a commander on a battlefield with lots of mustkets....

To quote a random guy "So you entered a battle with 50 musket troops on either side. Both sides opened fire and you got shot in the head.  Only 3 other people were hit.  You got unlucky."

Unless of course you charge dout in front and you were the first guy they all saw in which case 50 rifles stand a good chance of killing 1 guy if they're all aiming for him...

I've had some great battles so far and my game is cranked up to allow over 400 units on the field.  Had a great 126 vs 127 battle earlier....i didn't even get hit.  Lost quite a few troops of course....(most of whom were my ally's slywink )

And muskets really ARE just the next step up from crossbow....they're a crossbow with noise and smoke and a smaller faster projectile....they're not a fkin ray gun or M16....i mean be serious...

Seems like F&S is turning into an excuse to bash about everything, even shit that aint really broke.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 08:31:22 PM by Fuzzballx » Logged
Lord Percy
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« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2011, 08:45:53 PM »

Eastern Europe, Calradia, what's the difference. The map game just isn't fleshed out. You ride around, hope your speed number is higher than the enemy's speed number, go to "towns" that are little more than basic menus... it just plays the same as always, and it's always been pretty bad. I was hoping for something a bit more substantial this time around. They've surely had enough time to make some fundamental improvements.

Quote
I'm not sure what you expected...playing a commander on a battlefield with lots of mustkets....

To quote a random guy "So you entered a battle with 50 musket troops on either side. Both sides opened fire and you got shot in the head.  Only 3 other people were hit.  You got unlucky."

This randomness just isn't fun to me. I want to fight, not cower behind my line of slowly firing musket troops while plinking away with an ineffective pistol. The only enemies you can engage with any kind of skill are melee fighters. Charging into a small group of muskets is like rolling the dice, with a bad roll killing you instantly. Therefore you need to wait until their melee charges into your line, and this wait is a couple of minutes for each battle. Way too long for my tastes. In the previous two games you were incarnate, in this game you're reduced to being a "battlefield commander", as you say. It's not nearly as involving. I'm glad you're enjoying it, though.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 08:49:53 PM by Lord Percy » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2011, 08:59:30 PM »

Quote from: Fuzzballx on May 05, 2011, 08:26:42 PM

And muskets really ARE just the next step up from crossbow....they're a crossbow with noise and smoke and a smaller faster projectile....they're not a fkin ray gun or M16....i mean be serious...

I mean that gameplay-wise muskets are just like crossbows: they shoot high damage projectiles and are slow to reload. It's more or less a re-skin of an existing weapon, so even though they look like a major new feature, they don't actually add any new gameplay (except that everyone and their mother is equipped with them now). I'm not saying that historically speaking muskets were equally useful as crossbows, or that the muskets should handle like modern rifles or anything like that...
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« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2011, 09:48:21 PM »

Hmm, if the muskets are basically a one-hit kill then that really would change my tactics.  In M&B and Warband I was almost always actually leading the charge on my horse because I knew I could take out a bunch of guys and survive a few random hits.  If I just have to sit back and watch the battle I don't think i would be nearly as engaged or entertained.  

Not to dis With Fire & Sword, but I think all the feedback here has made it a pretty easy decision for me to pass on it for now.
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« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2011, 10:00:37 PM »

I was kinda worried that firearms might be a bit to realistic for it to be fun.  I think I'm going to stick with Warband for now.
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« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2011, 07:09:59 AM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on May 05, 2011, 09:48:21 PM

Hmm, if the muskets are basically a one-hit kill then that really would change my tactics.  In M&B and Warband I was almost always actually leading the charge on my horse because I knew I could take out a bunch of guys and survive a few random hits.  If I just have to sit back and watch the battle I don't think i would be nearly as engaged or entertained.  

Not to dis With Fire & Sword, but I think all the feedback here has made it a pretty easy decision for me to pass on it for now.

This is how I feel as well - I love the combat, and honestly doesn't want to play the game as a commander from the rear, and thats what this suggests doing, unless you want stray bullets to kill you instantly.
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« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2011, 09:07:35 AM »

I have it and I've been playing it and I find it pretty interesting and a decent change in tactics from M&B and Warband.

In battle, you'd basically follow the combat tactics of the period. Have your melee guys up front, muskets on the 2nd row (preferably on a higher ground) and cav to the side for a flanking charge. Let the enemy come to you in ranks and let the muskets thin them down and charge the cav as they reload.

If you're charging from the front, it's pretty much a guaranteed death. You can still lead your charge, just gotta wait for the right time (after the 1st volley or in between volleys) and charge from the flanks.
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« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2011, 05:13:58 PM »

Interestingly i played Warband the exact same way....

I preferred to run with a cap of 700ish units on the field and always went as a mounted archer so i could command my troops from behind but still participate and help snipe cavalry that broke through etc.

I was never a fan of going with a super tank melee and taking on 30 infantry by myself in a crazy melee battle...not to mention i usually got my ass killed if i went up against 4 or 5 while on foot....

So i really just find this is a little more deadly ... which it should be given that it's in the gunpowder era.

Tons of problems with this premium TC....but the community generated troops.txt file is making it playable enough to have fun with for now as a break from my Warband: Floris Expanded game and my attempt at getting into Warband: Brytenwalda.
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