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Author Topic: More SOE BS  (Read 4260 times)
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Raven
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« on: October 26, 2004, 11:28:38 PM »

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You have a total of four character slots. They can all be on one server or spread across mulitple servers, however you wish.
============================
Moorgard
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I'm too tired to go into detail, on why this both disgust and amuses me at the same time. Suffice to say that SOE seems bound and determined to push people into the arms of Blizzard.

And it seems to be working.
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VynlSol
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2004, 11:40:32 PM »

Quote from: "Raven"


...

 Suffice to say that SOE seems bound and determined to push people into the arms of Blizzard.

And it seems to be working.


Woot! Less zone crowding for me then!
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Daehawk
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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2004, 12:14:38 AM »

One of the many things thats killed EQ2 for me is they still havea big death penalty in this day and age. Not only do you suffer a exp hit you also have your items degrade on you because you died. WTF is that lol. Then theres the group exp penalty for deaths in a group.

SOE says you dont get a exp penalty..you dont lose exp you are just given a exp debt so that you have to make it up before you gain exp. Well duh thats the same thing as if they took it away from you to begin with lol.
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2004, 12:24:03 AM »

GQLLFM smile

I'm pleased about the death penalty. Too many games go too far the other way in a move I'd like to call the "Dungeon-Seigening" of the genre. The knowledge of severe penalties in EQ made you fight that much harder, concentrate that much more, and in the end, get more out of the game. I used to punch inanimate objects if I died in a dungeon and/or let my groupmates down (lifelong cleric here). Not exactly "fun", but certainly more of an involving experience than "ohh poor thing, let's just bring you back to life, *poof*!"
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Daehawk
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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2004, 01:10:43 AM »

I like WoW's better than any Ive ever played.
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Arkon
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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2004, 01:14:13 AM »

How many characters does someone really need?  I have no problem with only having 4 characters.  The death penalty is minor enough that it is a nuissance and nothing more.  Repairing items is very inexpensive... even if you have a bad night it will take 10 deaths to where the items have to be repaired.  To each thier own I suppose.  I have played both, and while WoW is a good game, it is not for me.  If you want to talk about BS... how about the fact that in WoW if I have a friend from australia I can't play with them, not to mention friends from any country other than america which I have quite a few.
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Calvin
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« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2004, 02:05:01 AM »

What an idiotic, laughable policy. WoW has shown that there is really no detriment to having large numbers of toons allowed spread across servers.

Typical SOE bull-shit. Wait till they start charging a premium rate for more toons.

YOu do understand its 4 across ALL servers right? thats preposterous.
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Interloper
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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2004, 02:43:01 AM »

Quote
GQLLFM


Eh?
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zinckiwi
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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2004, 03:19:44 AM »

"Good, Quit, Less Lag For Me" and my favourite ever acronym. A holdover from the old official EQ Whineplay boards. Customary response to "Verant you ^($( YOU nerfed the Eyelid of Throbbing! WAAAAAA" etc.
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Cota
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2004, 03:22:17 AM »

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I'm too tired to go into detail, on why this both disgust and amuses me at the same time.


Can I have your stuff?

-Cota
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YellowKing
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« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2004, 03:29:22 AM »

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WoW has shown that there is really no detriment to having large numbers of toons allowed spread across servers.


To my knowledge, however, WoW is not providing each player with a webpage displaying their character's current stats/equipment updated from the server, nor are they giving every guild a free guild webpage.
I can see why they would want to limit number of characters on that basis alone.

The difference between WoW and EQ2 is that WoW is trying its best to cater to everyone, while EQ2 has a vision for their gameworld and you will either adapt or go to another game. That may piss some people off, but I think their vision is a good one, and one I vastly prefer to WoW's watered down Fisher Price gameplay.
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Juntei
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« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2004, 03:40:03 AM »

The more I hear about EQ2 the less I like about it.
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ravenvii
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« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2004, 03:47:31 AM »

Umm, I don't see the fuss here. I'm no fan of EQ, nor EQ2 at that matter, but I think 4 characters is plenty. I mean I don't even need more than 2 characters.

But I don't play MMORPGs much, so YMMV.
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Daehawk
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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2004, 03:55:22 AM »

EQ2 is going to charge you for stats page on your character.

As for how many characters....Im playing CoH right now and have 16+ characters spread across 2+ servers. I get bored easy and get sick and tired of playing the same character all the time. I like to try it all also.
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Fellow
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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2004, 05:19:25 AM »

The biggest thing I'm really worried over about EQ2 (right now), is that group death penalty. I imagine it getting really ugly, if someone dies repeatedly.

I've heard it said that this'll at least make every team member care about all the teammates. I don't think that's going to happen. I think that, if there's a person who dies a few times, and brings the rest of the group's exp down, he/she'll get kicked out of the group quickly.

Or, some smaller groups might be reluctant to invite new unknown members, in fear of them ruining the precious XP that has been worked for with sweat.

I also see this boosting extreme elitist behavior.

And just to get the other side of the argument out of the way, if someone's dying constantly, then they must not be playing the game very well. And, this won't be a problem when the group consists of good people. Etc. etc.

Nevertheless, it's a bit worrisome.
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Arkon
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« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2004, 05:27:05 AM »

On the group death penalty it has been a non issue for me in beta.  The debt I get from a teammate dying is gone within 15-20 minutes.  I have encountered one or two people who weren't very intelligent, but with some help by the group they learned what they were doing wrong causing deaths.  I have yet to be in a group where someone kept dying repeatedly... even doing dungeons with a full group for a few hours at a time.  

All of my grouping so far has been pick up groups.
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Rhinohelix
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« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2004, 06:23:13 AM »

I thought I would hate Grou[ death penalty as well.  Really and truly though, it has been a non-factor during my time in beta.  Same with item repair:  It kind of sucks, but really isn't noticable.  This is pre-20, however so that may change but I don't expect it too.  Shared debt hasn't been even noticable.  My debt per death is much more managble than in CoH, for instance.

The four character per account thing was a big stumbling block to get over.  I am a twink machine.  Given the systems in place in part to prevent that, I think that 4 character slots will be fine.  I know there are people who have 5 or 6 level 65+ in EQL, but as a percentage of the playing population how big a group is that?

Even if these were impediments to my enjoying the game, which they aren't, I would still play.  It is amazing to me how well it has come together, in the way they cobbled and invented systems:  EQL has been the jumping off point for all the games launched in NA.  After all these years and all that development, the best answer to EQ is EQ2.  I think WoW is fun, and will certainly appeal to a certain subset of players.  I think it is more casual friendly than EQ2 and is certainly going to be the game of choice for PvP'ers.

EQ2 has given me back that feeling of newbie-ness and wonder that EQL did.  My only complaint about Beta is that every sonic shrieker I kill is another I will have to fight again post-launch.  smile

Rhino
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olaf
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« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2004, 08:19:26 AM »

lol 4 characters per account?  That seems a little extreme, going from what, 8 per server allowed in EQ1?

olaf
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Raven
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« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2004, 09:45:12 AM »

Quote from: "Interloper"
Quote
GQLLFM


Eh?


It's the official response of all fanboys. It's their answer to any criticism of EQ, no matter how legitimate or valid.
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Raven
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« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2004, 09:49:28 AM »

Quote
To my knowledge, however, WoW is not providing each player with a webpage displaying their character's current stats/equipment updated from the server, nor are they giving every guild a free guild webpage.


Well big whoopty freakin doo!

How about SOE gives us 8 characters "per server", and all of those other minor things can be done by 3rd party fan sites, like they've always been done.

And you do realize that SOE is throwing out the free web page as a cheesy excuse to gimp character slots.
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« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2004, 12:21:03 PM »

As we get closer and closer to launch, people seem to be more fervent in their defense of whichever game they seem to lean toward.  

This is fun to watch the "battlelines" be drawn and see the zingers fly from side to side.

I still have no particular "feel" for one game over the other, although having played WoW and not EQ2, I can't really comment intelligently on one versus the other.

Fellow's one comment regarding EQ2 and the death mechanic choice is something I am also wondering about though.

I also see this boosting extreme elitist behavior.

If there is one thing I really dislike, it's elitist types.  And although you could argue those players are in all games, anything that would promote that in any way is a bit scary.  

Have the beta-testers seen more than the usual amount of these types in EQ2?  Just curious.

LD
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YellowKing
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« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2004, 12:36:14 PM »

I must say, Raven. Arguing with you over the past few weeks has been an extremely fun way to pass the time until launch.  biggrin  I hope you realize it's certainly nothing personal, just fun debate between two opposing viewpoints.

Truth be said, I'm not particularly pro-character limitation. I realize a line has to be drawn somewhere, but four per account does seem a bit restrictive after playing games that allow you to have eight per server. Still, it doesn't affect me or my friends so I have a hard time getting very passionate about it. Especially since I haven't seen anything official that says we'll only be able to have four characters at launch. Everything I've read so far has been hearsay and/or based on the number of character slots available in beta.

On another point, I'm still amazed that they stuck to the $14.99 price point. I was almost certain that EQ2/WoW would break the $15 barrier. It will be interesting to see if WoW matches that or tries to undercut them.

Quote
Have the beta-testers seen more than the usual amount of these types in EQ2? Just curious.


I've played in several pick-up groups now and I haven't seen it happen at all. Now, maybe that's because this is beta and people are just more relaxed since their character is being wiped anyway. I don't know. One death here and there is really, really minor. The only time you start to feel a pinch from group XP debt is in group wipeouts where you have 3-4 people dying at once.

Make no mistake, the game rewards social relationships with other people. It rewards teamwork above all else - in groups, in combat, in guilds, etc. I would not be at all surprised at launch to see people start bonding pretty tightly. I imagine it is going to be more difficult for the lone wandering pick-up group guy to just jump into a random party without proving himself first. That's where you have to look at your gameplay style and ask yourself if EQ2 is the game for you. I think if you can get into the "vision" they have for the gameworld it will be a very rich and rewarding game. If you can't get into that mindset, then you might be happier with WoW.
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« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2004, 12:37:04 PM »

I definatly play too much to be restricted to just 4 characters. It does sound like its going to end up being a money-making scheme.

But then again, I do not have access to all the data from EQ to compare against. Maybe they see that 80% of the people playing EQ only have 3-4 character above level 20 so it makes sense to put the limit at that as to reduce the character database size. Or they could be seeing that the 20% that have many higher level alts are "hardcore" players which will readily pay the $10 (example) extra a month for more slots.

I know that in WoW, I am looking forward to filling up all 8 slots on my primary server and a few on another server.
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Raven
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« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2004, 01:19:06 PM »

Quote
Especially since I haven't seen anything official that says we'll only be able to have four characters at launch. Everything I've read so far has been hearsay and/or based on the number of character slots available in beta.


Uh, read my first post. That's not a quote about beta, that's a quote about retail.

See for yourself.
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« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2004, 01:37:53 PM »

Just so you don't think WoW is allowing a whole lot more characters, from the FAQ:

Quote
How many characters are allowed per account?
The current limit is a total of 8 characters across all realms. This number is subject to change.
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YellowKing
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« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2004, 01:58:03 PM »

Thanks Raven, I didn't see Moorgard's post.
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« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2004, 02:45:50 PM »

You're complaining about EQ2's 4 character limit, but did you know that Final Fantasy XI gives you only 1 character slot across all realms for your $12.95 monthly fee?  If you want more than 1 character, you need to pay an additional $1 per month.  And Final Fantasy XI boasts over 500,000 subscribers and over 1.5 million ACTIVE characters.

EQ2 is not only being generous compared to FFXI, but trust me, this character slot limit won't hurt EQ2 one bit.  For instance, Raven, you have been determined to hate EQ2 from the get-go.  I've read your posts.  This 4 character slot announcement has no effect on you.  You wouldn't have bought the game anyway.
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Daehawk
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« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2004, 02:59:13 PM »

Did'nt buy FF and thats one reason.
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morlac
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« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2004, 03:15:57 PM »

Quote from: "Daehawk"
EQ2 is going to charge you for stats page on your character.


Wrong.  They will be providing "extra" features at .99 per or 2.99 for the complet bundle.   These special Guild tools include advanced character profiles, advanced item databases and an expanded image gallery. You'll only need to upgrade if the basic services don't meet your needs.

Number of Discoveries (Game-Wide) 0 Items 119,942
119,942
Number of Discoveries (Server) 0 Items 119,942 119,942
Total NPC Kills 387 2,860 7,603
Total Deaths 1 17,684 45,937
Kills vs Deaths Ratio 387 167 502
Quests Completed 15 23,194 53,687
Guild Status Contributed 0 50,702 112,260
Highest Magic Hit 61 Damage
6,793 16,642
Highest Melee Hit 7 Damage
Freeport citizenship staff
23,206 56,704
Most Recent Level & Rank 11
View History
These show personal #'s, server rank and world rank.
All this plus up to the minute equipment and stats list is included FREE.
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« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2004, 03:33:45 PM »

BTW - us beta testers are fighting tooth and nail to get that 'overall character number' up to 8. I doubt it'll happen, but...

And as far as FFXI went - the reason that one character was enough was that you could change that character into any of the classes you wanted to at any time. In EQ2, you can't do that.

The group death penality is nothing to worry about. Basically it gives you a reason to keep everyone alive in combat. It's no longer 'every man for himself' when things go bad.
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Daehawk
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« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2004, 03:42:46 PM »

I think they are limiting the  character slots in EQ2 also is because they lack a lot of character class types..are'nt there just 4 or 5 main classes?
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olaf
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« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2004, 03:52:30 PM »

Quote from: "coopasonic"
Just so you don't think WoW is allowing a whole lot more characters, from the FAQ:

Quote
How many characters are allowed per account?
The current limit is a total of 8 characters across all realms. This number is subject to change.

Well its 100% more.  I say that qualifies as a whole lot.  But yeah, 8 overall still seems restrictive.  For me personally...4 is pushing it, but 8 would definitely be enough.  I dont think I have ever had more than 4 active characters across all servers in any MMO I have played.

olaf
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« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2004, 04:06:50 PM »

Quote from: "coopasonic"
Just so you don't think WoW is allowing a whole lot more characters, from the FAQ:

Quote
How many characters are allowed per account?
The current limit is a total of 8 characters across all realms. This number is subject to change.


Wasn't that quote written when Blizzard only had one beta server? I'm pretty sure you can have more than 8 chars between the 2 servers now. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)
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Arkon
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« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2004, 04:39:17 PM »

There are 4 main AT's with each AT having 3 classes, each class having 2 subclasses.
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« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2004, 05:12:26 PM »

Quote from: "Arkon"
There are 4 main AT's with each AT having 3 classes, each class having 2 subclasses.

To be completely technical:

There are 4 main classes (Fighter, Priest, Mage, Scout), that each have 3 classes that split off from that (which you choose at level 10). From there, you'll advance to one of two final classes at level 20, which is based on if you're a Qeynos or Freeport (good or evil) citizen.

And, yes, the Good/Evil classes will be dramatically different. The same subclass for the Fighter, for example, can promote you to either a Paladin or a Shadow Knight. Each will get their own set of spells/abilities.

So, in short, to have a character for every class, you'd need 24 (4 main x 3 classes x 2 good/evil choice) character slots.

This is why people are complaining about how 4 slots are too few. Add in the fact that the Froglok class is locked until they're 'rescued' after launch, and you'll see the reasons.
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coopasonic
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« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2004, 06:13:05 PM »

Quote from: "JCC"
Quote from: "coopasonic"
Just so you don't think WoW is allowing a whole lot more characters, from the FAQ:

Quote
How many characters are allowed per account?
The current limit is a total of 8 characters across all realms. This number is subject to change.


Wasn't that quote written when Blizzard only had one beta server? I'm pretty sure you can have more than 8 chars between the 2 servers now. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)


You can now, for beta.
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