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Author Topic: Molyneux still misrepresenting Fable  (Read 2973 times)
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vagabond
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« on: October 21, 2004, 04:12:36 AM »

In a very short playboy piece Molyneux is still misrepresenting Fable. He keeps talking about at the very beginning where you have to decide to tell the cheating man's wife or not and implies the game is full of good or bad choices like that throughout the game, instead of the truth, which is that is the only one. He also implies he can tell how a player played the game by looking at their character as if it was some complex and deep issue. When it is a horns or halo proposition and not even that. You could do literally hundreds of evil actions and still have a halo because it's far too easy to change your alignment. When asked how long the game is he dodged and said "that completely depends on you".
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« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2004, 05:27:49 AM »

Quote from: "vagabond"
In a very short playboy piece Molyneux is still misrepresenting Fable. He keeps talking about at the very beginning where you have to decide to tell the cheating man's wife or not and implies the game is full of good or bad choices like that throughout the game, instead of the truth, which is that is the only one.

thats a misrepresentation.  There are several good/bad choices given the overall length of the game.
beginning:  who do you give Rosie to?  What do you do with the Barrels while the storekeeper is away?
teenage years:  how do you resolve the hobo issue.  did you shoot the sparrows.

adult life:
Orchard Farms: which side do you fight on.
Hobbes Cave:  there are two good or bad choices here... etc etc without giving away too much of the plot of the game (there isn't much of a plot, so you gotta preserve what you can)

Quote from: "vagabond"

 He also implies he can tell how a player played the game by looking at their character as if it was some complex and deep issue. When it is a horns or halo proposition and not even that. You could do literally hundreds of evil actions and still have a halo because it's far too easy to change your alignment.

Your physical appearance does depend on how you play the game.  how you spend your XP, and whether you do good or evil things.  Sure, its easy to change your alignment, and not something I am fond of, but if yuo play as an evil prick you are going to be evil unless you turn over a new leaf or start donating alot of money to Avo.  if you play as a saint, you will appear as a saint unless you spend time torturing folks... in which case you aren't really being much of a saint, are you?
Quote from: "vagabond"

When asked how long the game is he dodged and said "that completely depends on you".

Grrr...  This chaps my hide.  The faq STILL says 30 hours if you rush through knowing where everything is and countless hours if you dink around.  That is a boldfaced LIE, and the ONLY thing that upsets me about Fable.  To clarify, I am not upset about the length of Fable, inf fact I love it.  I am upset because the game takes 1/3rd the time they claim if you just go the main quest "rushing through", and it is extremely easy to do JUST that because they tell you exactly where to go, have restricted paths,  and give you the ability to teleport about the area willy-nilly.  I completed it the first time in 11 hours by accident.  

Personal message to Peter:
  I suspect a fair bit of content was cut toward the end because they couldn't quache all the bugs.  Fine, but update your FAQ and tell the truth.  This is a 10-20 hour game, regardless of how you play.
Don't apologize because your game isn't what you thought it would be 4 years ago and features were cut.  That happens.  I haven't seen Bungie apologizing for Halo not being an RTS.
You were honest about the features that were cut up front, and gave out a review copy to many sites/mags so that reviews of the game where available 2-3 weeks before it came out.  Spiff, you have completed your obligation to the gaming world.  Caveat Emptor Just quite lying to yourself about the time to complete the game.
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« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2004, 05:59:32 AM »

See, now, I think I've come close to 10 hours myself, and I'm less than half way through.  I certainly don't feel like I've been ambling either.  Yeah, there's a lot of guiding and whatnot, but you can choose to amass wealth through real estate, trading (which can be quite time-consuming), or playing bar games.  Myself, I've only done the latter, really (I did rent out my childhood home until I find that special someone to wed), but I've still spent time fighting/casting to up my stats as a spellwarrior.  I've really only found one non-guild mission (escorting someone who, sadly, didn't make it), but I imagine there are others.  Really, if you wanted to just hang out in the world you could for a long time.  It'd probably get boring, but you could do it.
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2004, 10:51:28 AM »

thats a misrepresentation. There are several good/bad choices given the overall length of the game.
beginning: who do you give Rosie to? What do you do with the Barrels while the storekeeper is away?
teenage years: how do you resolve the hobo issue. did you shoot the sparrows. <<<<

Okay, there is more than one but all you name are basically in the tutorial for the game. My point was making good/evil choices is not really a factor in the game. It doesn't have any impact on gameplay. It is a misrepresentation to act like it is a huge part of the game or the basis of the game. There are few later on and they are sparse and it really seems like the game was finished in a hurry.
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2004, 01:43:28 PM »

Ah, I see Eldergamer found us.

Just to let everyone know, his favorite sporting activity over at GG was Fable-bashing.

I suggest you read his comments (which are perfectly acceptable) but refrain from getting into arguments with him.

EG, you will find any personal attacks and name-calling here will have a far shorter lifespan here than at GG. You haven't done anything yet, but this is just a pre-warning.
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« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2004, 02:21:46 PM »

I'm approaching hour 9 in the game and I just got the quest where I go visit the Grey House, for whatever that's worth. I haven't found too many "crisis of conscience" quests either, past the aforementioned ones, though I obviously missed the hobo and sparrows bits because I've no idea what you're talking about. smile

A thing that goads me right now is how the upper levels of statistics have insanely high XP requirements. Is there a place for good XP/Combat Multiplier harvesting?
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« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2004, 02:39:08 PM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
I'm approaching hour 9 in the game and I just got the quest where I go visit the Grey House, for whatever that's worth. I haven't found too many "crisis of conscience" quests either, past the aforementioned ones, though I obviously missed the hobo and sparrows bits because I've no idea what you're talking about. smile

They hardly qualify as quests, just choice points really.  However, that is about as far as this game goes in that regard.  There aren't a whole lot overall, but they do exist within the game.  However, unlike say, KOTOR, where the narrative drew you in and the side characters were fleshed out enough, you aren't really going to have too many Crisis of Conscience events.
That is the price you pay for making almost all the NPCs killable.  They all become somewhat generic.  The game is really all about you and how the villager's react to you.  With a little imagination, there is alot of fun to be had here within the confines of the limited AI.

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"

A thing that goads me right now is how the upper levels of statistics have insanely high XP requirements. Is there a place for good XP/Combat Multiplier harvesting?


There will be a place a little later in the game where undead infinitely spawn.  If you haven't met the undead, you will REAL soon.  They have high stats (and thus, give alot of XP) but are too slow to be much of a threat.  Its an XP harvest.  My pure melee gets a 20-30 combat multiplier when he goes.  When my physical shield/enflame guy gets there, I expect to get my multiplier into the 100-200 range.

The unfortunate thing is that this game encourages the user to make a generic well rounded character.  Its easy enough you can just save up your points if you want to be all melee or all magic,  but I tended to waste XP on non-core skills because I hated seeing all that XP go unused.
I personally would have made it so that when you level up.. say, a magic skill, the non magic skills would have raised in cost as well.
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« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2004, 03:38:36 PM »

Quote from: "vagabond"
He also implies he can tell how a player played the game by looking at their character as if it was some complex and deep issue. When it is a horns or halo proposition and not even that. You could do literally hundreds of evil actions and still have a halo because it's far too easy to change your alignment.


How is this a misrepresentation?  In addition to the whole horns/halo thing, you can also tell how a person played by the stature and build of their character.    A caster will be scrawny, a thief-type character will most likely be small and pale, a melee character will be well-built, someone who downed a ton of food will be fat, etc.   Looking at the character does tell you quite a bit about how the person has played the game.

Quote
When asked how long the game is he dodged and said "that completely depends on you".


I hardly think this is a misrepresentation either.  I beat Fable in about 22 hours and only did a few of the side quests.  A friend of mine is already at 28 hours, and is only halfway through the main quest.  He's spending a ton of time with the character interaction, finding the best traders, doing side quest stuff (demon doors, Fight club, etc.), and is having a blast with it.  Another guy I know beat the game in 16 hours, but has since put in another 15 just goofing around.  

True, the main quest only takes about 15 hours, but it is conceivable that people will spend a good chunk of time messing around within the world.
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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2004, 04:00:58 PM »

I'd like to add this point:

I've done magazine interviews and I can guarantee that a hour or two (or more) of conversation was whittled down a few pages or so of writing. The result is the effect or message/story that the writer wanted to deliver.

He is known to be a very good "salesperson" and that emotional influence could lead a writer to embelish or tell half-truths to give impact to the story.

I'm just saying that in this example, you probably don't know the context or extent or what he said.
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« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2004, 05:03:14 AM »

Quote from: "Jeff Jones"
Ah, I see Eldergamer found us.


and he still doesn't know how to work the quote button.
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« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2004, 05:15:43 AM »

Quote from: "Yossarian"

and he still doesn't know how to work the quote button.

out of curiousity, you aren't the same Yossarian from Freedom Reborn, are you?
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« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2004, 10:20:59 AM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"


A thing that goads me right now is how the upper levels of statistics have insanely high XP requirements. Is there a place for good XP/Combat Multiplier harvesting?



There are many good places it just depends on how far in the game you are.  Outside the Hobbe cave an earth troll will spawn after you get a few levels. You can stand behind the rock there wait for him to throw then step around and shoot arrows at him, rinse repeat and get tons of exp early.  I was able to get my muliplier up to over 50 on the spectre's in the last town but that is very near the end.
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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2004, 10:29:27 AM »

How is this a misrepresentation?  In addition to the whole horns/halo thing, you can also tell how a person played by the stature and build of their character.    A caster will be scrawny, a thief-type character will most likely be small and pale, a melee character will be well-built, someone who downed a ton of food will be fat, etc.   Looking at the character does tell you quite a bit about how the person has played the game.


You could tell the same thing by just looking at what kind of armor or weapon the person is using. It doesn't really impact the game or give any kind of deep insight into how the person played the game at all. Most people are going to end up with a maxed out character in all abilities by the end. The only difference might be the spells they have or don't have.
Well they already tried to pretend there are over 30 hours of gameplay in the main quest when I doubt it took anybody much over 20 even if they messed around a lot.  You could do it in 10 if you tried hard.  I didn't dislike fable I played through it twice. I just don't like them misleading people as to what it is. It's only Molyneux's foolish pride that keeps him from just admitting to what it is. Which is a decent hack and slasher with no ethical choices that effect gameplay in the slightest. He can pretend it is whatever he want's but it doesn't change reality any.
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« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2004, 03:19:33 PM »

Post edited by request (though it was just a quote from Dana Gould).
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« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2004, 03:27:04 PM »

Actually, the game comes across more as Maximo with NPCs to talk to and flirt with. smile By the way, anyone else really creeped out when the guy school teacher in Bowerstone South asks you for a wedding ring? GAH!! Think of the children!!!  :twisted:

I got through the graveyard last night and was running down the corridor to the prison, so in theory I should be able to beat the main quest tonight. That's what I'm hoping at least. I might spend an hour or so level-jacking with the undead, then head out and burn through the rest. After I beat that, then I can come back to the side quests like Demon Doors and such.

Question - has anyone figured out the secret of reversing your age? My guy is 43 now, and apparently I should have worn a helmet more 'cause he's got some serious scar action going on. Probably shouldn't have done so many quests naked either, but damn the money was good. biggrin
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2004, 03:56:59 PM »

Quote from: "Bullwinkle"
 (edited, thanks).


^^^^ this is how it starts.

Bullwinkle, please see my post above regarding this situation. No personal insults. Please edit your post. I would prefer it if we could keep things civil (which they have been so far) and keep this from having to be yet another locked Fable thread (carrying over from GG, I mean).

edit: thanks Bullwinkle. I like the Dana Gould reference, but I'm not sure EG would've appreciated it smile
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2004, 04:37:09 PM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
Question - has anyone figured out the secret of reversing your age? My guy is 43 now, and apparently I should have worn a helmet more 'cause he's got some serious scar action going on. Probably shouldn't have done so many quests naked either, but damn the money was good. biggrin


Making donations at either temple can get years knocked off your age.  The Temple of Skorm requires sacrifices and the other temple (whose name I cannot remember) requires gold.  lots of gold.  Supposedly your alignment and time of day affect the best time to do so, but I think it's just random chance.
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« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2004, 07:49:11 AM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
Actually, the game comes across more as Maximo with NPCs to talk to and flirt with. smile By the way, anyone else really creeped out when the guy school teacher in Bowerstone South asks you for a wedding ring? GAH!! Question - has anyone figured out the secret of reversing your age? My guy is 43 now, and apparently I should have worn a helmet more 'cause he's got some serious scar action going on. Probably shouldn't have done so many quests naked either, but damn the money was good. biggrin


Maximo is a hack and slasher so good comparison. Didn't really creep me out, I just found it completely and utterly pointless like most of the stuff in the game. It has no impact at all on gameplay who you marry, except Lady Grey.  You can lower your age but I finished the game in my 50's and it doesn't impact anything either. Just how you look with your armor off. Doubt doing quests neekid or whether you wear a helmet or not matters for scars either. It's probably totally random. Or more likely everybody just gets a few scars with time.
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« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2004, 05:33:31 PM »

People care about Peter Molyneux?  I figure after he took 99% of the gaming public straight up the ass on Black & White, people would be avoiding him like the plague by now.
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« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2004, 06:16:32 PM »

Quote from: "Valhuerdi"
People care about Peter Molyneux?  I figure after he took 99% of the gaming public straight up the ass on Black & White, people would be avoiding him like the plague by now.

Thats the problem. 75% of the people who bitched and moaned about B&W went out and purchased Fable, knowing PMs involvment and without reading any of the numerous early reviews... and then they started bitching again.
Its like people who complained about each LOTR movie as they came out.  If you don't like the occasional extreme close-up, awkward dialog, slo-mo abuse, and in general don't like sitting down for 3+ hours, why bother subjecting yourself to more torture?
Me, I liked all the LOTR movies and I have enjoyed every PM game I've played, including Black & White.
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« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2004, 06:28:06 PM »

Quote from: "ingrin"
Quote from: "Valhuerdi"
Me, I liked all the LOTR movies and I have enjoyed every PM game I've played, including Black & White.



I never played Black and white but I heard a lot of bad things about it. I don't have a problem with fable. Just silly his foolish pride won't allow him to admit the game fell far short of what he envisioned and delivered, so he keeps pretending it's partially what he wanted and said it was. Not that anybody is fooled after they play it, but by then he already has the money I guess. Lord of the rings rules da earf! :lol:
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« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2004, 10:49:37 PM »

Here is one rule i try to follow....

"Dont' believe the hype"

I know I know, sounds simple enough,.. but people were orgasming over Fable before the game was even put out, because of what it could be... And what marketers (Same people who claimed Gigli was going ot be good I might add) said about it.  

I havent played it yet, and I usually dont get games the day they come out anymore (Sans maybe sports games) after being burned by Tiberiun Sun.  I will either rent it at blockbuster or borrow it from a friend, and determine for myself whteher I like the game.

I am willing to bet I put 60 hours into fable easy, making a warrior, making a mage, making a good guy, making a bad guy, slaughtering whole towns and buying them up cheap so I can rent them out to new people...Setting records for chicken punting.... It seems like the kind of game i enjoy...

So all I am saying is,... most people arn't bashing Fabel for being a bad game,.. they seem to be upset is wasnt the best game ever....   Well, not everyone can make the best game ever everytime out.  But if its a really good game, you should not nitpick the small things and appreciate it, since so often crap hits the shelves...
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« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2004, 11:46:35 PM »

Beat it today as a good guy and it was alright. That non-ending blows though. "Yeah, the world is good again. The end." Huh?!?!

At any rate, I actually had fun with it the further I got into it. I wouldn't call it the best game evah, but it was a lot of fun for a hack-and-slasher. Like I said, it's like Maximo with NPCs that you can marry. The problems I'd see are several ideas in there like marriage and the whole Lady Grey sub-plot that could have been fleshed out and cool, but were obviously abandoned at some point. Eh. At any rate, I had fun with it, and I'll wind up playing through it again as a villain. So there's that, which means I got my money out of it. Can't ask for more than that, IMO. Solid B+ game (it dropped to a B for the non-ending, but shot back up when I got the Vulgar Thrust - that rules. biggrin)
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« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2004, 11:47:04 AM »

Quote
The problems I'd see are several ideas in there like marriage and the whole Lady Grey sub-plot that could have been fleshed out and cool, but were obviously abandoned at some point. Eh. At any rate, I had fun with it, and I'll wind up playing through it again as a villain. So there's that, which means I got my money out of it. Can't ask for more than that, IMO. Solid B+ game (it dropped to a B for the non-ending, but shot back up when I got the Vulgar Thrust - that rules. biggrin)


Yeah, they establish Lady Grey is a murderer but it never comes up later nor does it have any impact on gameplay. It is really hard to get anybody to marry you if you are evil, except Lady Grey who will always marry you if you complete the tasks. The vulgar thrust is fun for about 5 minutes but like most of the stuff it gets old quick because you don't get any kind of payoff for it.
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