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Dante Rising
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« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2009, 11:36:58 PM »

Is there a reasonable storyline attached to the game, or is it the usual detritus? I love strategy games, but I'm still on the fence for this one.
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« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2009, 12:25:25 AM »

Quote from: Dante Rising on December 03, 2009, 11:36:58 PM

Is there a reasonable storyline attached to the game, or is it the usual detritus? I love strategy games, but I'm still on the fence for this one.

It's pretty much throwaway.

I'm frustrated as hell by one of the early game missions:

Spoiler for Hiden:
Fighting the big general at the top of the druid tree.  There's an elf you're not allowed to hit that's in the enemy ranks, and he moves around to random column on their side on each turn.  I've tried this battle 4 times now, and all 4 times he's moved right into the path of one of my charged units on the turn right before they fire off.  Unless I'm missing something, there's no way to plan around to avoid hitting him, since his column jumps seem to be completely random.  It's apparently just a matter of luck whether or not he jumps the way of your attacks, which is just stupid level design.  Add in the two giant griffons the dude brings in that can do 40+ damage on a single hit, and I'm pretty much stumped as to how I'm supposed to beat him - short of simply throwing away every one of my special units on this one battle in the hopes of wearing down his heavy hitters.  Our levels and units are all equivalent, but unless I manage to fuse a few units (an opportunity that seems to present itself very seldom), I don't have anything that can defend against that much damage.  

I'll add a +1 to the lack of in-game info being a major problem, but I don't think it's quite a dealbreaker...yet.
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« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2009, 03:01:19 AM »

Gratch, if you didn't get your unicorns yet, go back to the bottom of the tree. They should help with soaking all that damage.
I don't recall his pattern being random. I seem to remember him starting near the middle and moving a space to the right each turn til he got to the side then turning around.
My memory may be faulty, but also check for any visual cues where he might be going a number of the fights have these). IIRC, When he started to the right, I set up heavy on the opposite side; don't think I came anywhere near the guy.
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« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2009, 07:31:01 AM »

Played about 30 mins today. Game seems awesome so far. I was wondering from the screenshots how this was a puzzler, now it all makes sense. Game left me wanting to play more, so there's that.
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« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2009, 12:15:26 PM »

Gratch, Nathan from Capybara confirmed this for me. Euny moves one column at a time to the right then heads the other way.
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« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2009, 02:35:06 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on December 04, 2009, 12:15:26 PM

Gratch, Nathan from Capybara confirmed this for me. Euny moves one column at a time to the right then heads the other way.

Yep, I beat it last night (finally).  I thought he was jumping around, but apparently I are stoopid.  smile  Helps that during this last battle, he only summoned one of the griffon dudes. 

I'm impressed you were able to get past the unicorn guy before beating the tree general.  I've spent a least 2-3 hours simply grinding on the random battles with the demons in the caves (they seem to be the only ones I can find to do random battles with), and have still not gotten high enough level to beat that dude.  He's 7th level with a full stock of 5th level creatures...it's going to take a while still to be able to compete.

Minor annoyance:  Your game timer is actually going to count time spent in sleep mode?  Really?
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« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2009, 05:05:25 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on December 04, 2009, 02:35:06 PM

Quote from: Misguided on December 04, 2009, 12:15:26 PM

Gratch, Nathan from Capybara confirmed this for me. Euny moves one column at a time to the right then heads the other way.

Yep, I beat it last night (finally).  I thought he was jumping around, but apparently I are stoopid.  smile  Helps that during this last battle, he only summoned one of the griffon dudes. 

I'm impressed you were able to get past the unicorn guy before beating the tree general.  I've spent a least 2-3 hours simply grinding on the random battles with the demons in the caves (they seem to be the only ones I can find to do random battles with), and have still not gotten high enough level to beat that dude.  He's 7th level with a full stock of 5th level creatures...it's going to take a while still to be able to compete.

Minor annoyance:  Your game timer is actually going to count time spent in sleep mode?  Really?

Yeah, the timer is unfortunate. I didn't do any random battles in the first chapter of the game, but I've done 2-3 in the second chapter just to try and beef myself up a bit (really tough going but I'm making progress). IIRC, that fight was a tough one. I'm not positive I did that before I got to the top of the tree now that you mention it. There were a number of fights I had to redo in the first chapter and the second is harder still. I also lose elites regularly in chapter 2.

Had a whale of a fight this morning:

Spoiler for Hiden:
The fight was with Fillion during Godric's portion of the game. Fillion is a necromancer who summons a zombie horde to attack you. Zombies are the only units he uses. While that might seem like it would be easy, consider the fact that they charge their attack in 2 turns and since they all have the same turn length, there were a lot of attacks getting linked together. I had to make every wall I could come up with to survive the initial zombie onslaught and I was starting to feel like I was in a Romero film. Then it was a matter of holding out until I could get an attack off from a champion unit. That was a blast.
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Butterknife
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« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2009, 05:58:55 PM »

I bought this game last night and I am thoroughly enjoying it.  Finally a puzzle/RPG game that is actually ... dare I say it ... as fun as Puzzle Quest!  The battles are a ton of fun.  There is a decent story.  It is entirely turn-based, so I can set it down and pick it up easily (no time-based puzzles).  The battles are challenging but possible.  I played it all night and had a blast.

One thing -- if you are color-blind (as I am) it can be very difficult to distinguish between some of the unit's colors, and that becomes a big deal when you are trying to make a match.  Be forewarned.  I've lost a few battles because I thought I was charging up an elite unit, only to find out I had stacked the wrong color behind it (I'm looking at you, deer).  Other than that minor gripe, I am very happy with my purchase.
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« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2009, 06:03:34 PM »

Quote from: Butterknife on December 04, 2009, 05:58:55 PM

I bought this game last night and I am thoroughly enjoying it.  Finally a puzzle/RPG game that is actually ... dare I say it ... as fun as Puzzle Quest!  The battles are a ton of fun.  There is a decent story.  It is entirely turn-based, so I can set it down and pick it up easily (no time-based puzzles).  The battles are challenging but possible.  I played it all night and had a blast.

One thing -- if you are color-blind (as I am) it can be very difficult to distinguish between some of the unit's colors, and that becomes a big deal when you are trying to make a match.  Be forewarned.  I've lost a few battles because I thought I was charging up an elite unit, only to find out I had stacked the wrong color behind it (I'm looking at you, deer).  Other than that minor gripe, I am very happy with my purchase.

Even not being color-blind, it can be a little tricky.
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« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2009, 06:34:06 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on December 04, 2009, 06:03:34 PM

Even not being color-blind, it can be a little tricky.

I keep forgetting to mention this but absolutely. Some of the units are hard to distinguish.
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« Reply #50 on: December 05, 2009, 10:40:43 PM »

According to Cheapass Gamer, the game will be on sale at Best Buy for $19.99 starting Sunday 10/6.  I'll be price matching to get my $10 back smile
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« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2009, 12:44:54 AM »

Quote from: EddieA on December 05, 2009, 10:40:43 PM

According to Cheapass Gamer, the game will be on sale at Best Buy for $19.99 starting Sunday 10/6.  I'll be price matching to get my $10 back smile

I might be selling it in the trading forum for that price soon, as I'm really not feeling this one at all.  I think the biggest problem is that combat seems about 50% luck-based (depending on where your units drop when they're summoned), which doesn't really jive with the more tactical nature I think they were shooting for.  It's almost like the game can't decide what it wants to be.  It's too tactical to appeal to my casual puzzle side, but relies too much on random luck to appeal to my strategy side.  It's somewhere in between, and I find myself not having much fun as a result.
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« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2009, 02:11:14 AM »

I guess I can see where you're coming from. I have on rare occasion had my opponent have a ridiculous starting position that compelled me to restart the fight, but aside from that I enjoy the randomness of it from the standpoint of trying to be as effective as possible given what falls to me. I've had many occasions where I thought I was hosed but had careful thought help turn the tied, and others where I thought I had it made only to see my opponent pull off a great maneuver and change the complexion of things.
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« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2009, 07:35:20 AM »

well i've pretty much figured out this out and it's awesome. maybe I missed this during a tutorial or something, but I had no idea the numbers in the bar was life/attack power. once I figured this out it was a breeze to prioritize killing things. I also found out that killing elites should be one of the top priorities too. they go down like a card house in denver when not charged. I like how not every fight is straight up kill. The side puzzles you can do are a nice diversion and offer some good rewards for your time. i got resources and an artifact from the first one after i beat it. they aren't overly hard, I got stuck on the first one because I forgot I could destroy the barricades, was easy once I remember to try that.

The game is certainly a bit luck based, but you can usually manipulate the board enough to get things set up. I tend to look for chains to get those extra turns, then failing that I see if I can set any up. Next I try to set up links and whatever the unit merger thing is called. Works well. Playing defense is a bit more luck based since you have no control over your opponent's board, but I tend to save the arrow spell to wipe a massive attack before it happens, usually taking a row out or elites. if that's not needed I clear a path for my attackers.

game is a lot of fun, well worth the 20$ price tag at BB. will make a fine gift to yourself or someone. so pick this up.
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« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2009, 03:00:23 PM »

Quote from: jersoc on December 08, 2009, 07:35:20 AM

they go down like a card house in denver when not charged.

"Like a card house in Denver"? Being a Colorado boy I'm not sure if I should be offended or not.  icon_lol

Quote from: jersoc on December 08, 2009, 07:35:20 AM

game is a lot of fun, well worth the 20$ price tag at BB. will make a fine gift to yourself or someone. so pick this up.

Did. Is.  nod Need to see what you mean by "the numbers in the bar" but it sounds like something I missed as well.
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« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2009, 03:52:10 PM »

I wrapped up the first story segment (elves) last night, and have found myself warming up to it a little bit.  I've sort of figured out (like jersoc) how the numbers correlate to damage, which has made a big difference.  The one thing I haven't quite put my finger on yet is how running through idle units affect your attacking unit's damage totals.  For example, if I have swordsmen that do 10 damage, but their attack has to go through an active group that do 5 damage then 3 other idle units, what will their actual damage be by the time they get to the enemy?  Sometimes it seems that idle units have no effect, but other times my attackers end up spending all their attack trying to plow through them.   Not sure if that's a good explanation or not, but I'm having a hell of a time figuring that out.

Also, does anyone know what determines how much additional attack a unit will gain during their countdown turns (once they're active)?  Seems like some units gain a huge amount each turn (i.e. they can go from 10 to 30 damage during their 3 turn countdown), but others only gain a little bit.  Is there any way to figure that out in advance?  It would be a huge help as I'm trying to plan attacking strategies.

TIA.  smile
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« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2009, 04:08:16 PM »

You need to look at the unit info again. The number by the hourglass is turns to charge. The sword is attack power when fully charged (and this will tell you about how much it will jump each turn when you consider the number of turns to charge; the units with massive attack power, like champions, will have much bigger increases each turn). The number by the dude flexing his arms is the damage that unit will absorb when NOT part of an active group. Keep in mind that the damage bonus for linking isn't applied until the unit attacks, where if you make a fusion, it gets bumped up immediately.

The reason that idle units sometimes have no effect is based on the attacking unit. I'm thinking you're talking about dudes with spears that hit the enemy unit first (there's also an artifact that lets them hit walls first). In the third section of the game, there's a nasty unit that doesn't take damage while charging, but still subtracts their strength from any unit passing through them.

I'll warn you that I found the second section tough going at first. It was tough to find someone that didn't beat the snot out of me at first. Here's a tip: You can buy the elite units before you win them (unlike the first section). Buy some as soon as you can, then try and do the puzzles after, so they get the xp too.

Quote from: Gratch on December 08, 2009, 03:52:10 PM

I wrapped up the first story segment (elves) last night, and have found myself warming up to it a little bit.  I've sort of figured out (like jersoc) how the numbers correlate to damage, which has made a big difference.  The one thing I haven't quite put my finger on yet is how running through idle units affect your attacking unit's damage totals.  For example, if I have swordsmen that do 10 damage, but their attack has to go through an active group that do 5 damage then 3 other idle units, what will their actual damage be by the time they get to the enemy?  Sometimes it seems that idle units have no effect, but other times my attackers end up spending all their attack trying to plow through them.   Not sure if that's a good explanation or not, but I'm having a hell of a time figuring that out.

Also, does anyone know what determines how much additional attack a unit will gain during their countdown turns (once they're active)?  Seems like some units gain a huge amount each turn (i.e. they can go from 10 to 30 damage during their 3 turn countdown), but others only gain a little bit.  Is there any way to figure that out in advance?  It would be a huge help as I'm trying to plan attacking strategies.

TIA.  smile
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« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2009, 08:35:18 PM »

Here's what I observed for the attacking. If you got a unit that is 10AP and they are in front of a unit with 5AP. When you attack you'll have to expend 5AP to kill them, that's leaves you with 5AP in which you'll deal 5 dmg to the enemy player. I think as far as getting additional power, probably is determined by their level. I noticed that my pawn units are capped and can't level anymore. Maybe it's capped by story, i'm not quite as far as gratch yet. Also, I don't think it displays the link units power until you attack. But if you merge 2 groups they should combine instantly with the new AP. Also, it seems like when linked you don't get any bonus to defending, which is a bit of a bummer.
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« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2009, 09:27:01 PM »

Quote from: jersoc on December 08, 2009, 08:35:18 PM

Also, it seems like when linked you don't get any bonus to defending, which is a bit of a bummer.

Correct. Max level appears to always be 5 for all units other than yourself.
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« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2009, 09:45:47 PM »

My Best Buy had this for $9.99 today, which I think was a mistake. Based upon all of your comments, I decided to pick it up. So far, I think the game is fantastic. It may end up being by DS strategy game of the year if the quality I've seen in the first hour continues.

I accidentally went up against a level 4 enemy with my level 2 character. The demon had 28 hit points versus my 15. I thought it would be a slaughter. But with some sound strategy and a little luck, twice I came within 1 hit point of defeating him. On the second attempt if my charged pixies would have attacked 1 turn earlier, I would have been victorious. Great fun, and I'm certain I'll feel a sense of accomplishment when I defeat him.

Thanks for the comments, everyone. this game wasn't even on my radar.
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« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2009, 10:26:14 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on December 08, 2009, 04:08:16 PM

You need to look at the unit info again. The number by the hourglass is turns to charge. The sword is attack power when fully charged (and this will tell you about how much it will jump each turn when you consider the number of turns to charge; the units with massive attack power, like champions, will have much bigger increases each turn). The number by the dude flexing his arms is the damage that unit will absorb when NOT part of an active group. Keep in mind that the damage bonus for linking isn't applied until the unit attacks, where if you make a fusion, it gets bumped up immediately.

The reason that idle units sometimes have no effect is based on the attacking unit. I'm thinking you're talking about dudes with spears that hit the enemy unit first (there's also an artifact that lets them hit walls first). In the third section of the game, there's a nasty unit that doesn't take damage while charging, but still subtracts their strength from any unit passing through them.

I'll warn you that I found the second section tough going at first. It was tough to find someone that didn't beat the snot out of me at first. Here's a tip: You can buy the elite units before you win them (unlike the first section). Buy some as soon as you can, then try and do the puzzles after, so they get the xp too.

Thanks man.  Of course, this only serves to increase my irritation at not having the ability to see stats on enemy units.   icon_evil
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« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2009, 10:45:35 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on December 08, 2009, 10:26:14 PM

Thanks man.  Of course, this only serves to increase my irritation at not having the ability to see stats on enemy units.   icon_evil

At the risk of repeating myself, go to the main menu and select Free Battle. From there you can at least get an idea of what the units are like. You still won't know how much damage a level 3 archer will soak, but at least you can get some idea of what stuff is and does. I really hope they add a free look mode in the future if this sees other platforms or they do a sequel.
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« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2009, 10:46:10 PM »

Quote from: Dante Rising on December 08, 2009, 09:45:47 PM

My Best Buy had this for $9.99 today

Nice, this is a ridiculously good game for 10 bucks.
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« Reply #63 on: December 09, 2009, 12:15:31 AM »

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on December 08, 2009, 03:00:23 PM

Quote from: jersoc on December 08, 2009, 07:35:20 AM

they go down like a card house in denver when not charged.

"Like a card house in Denver"? Being a Colorado boy I'm not sure if I should be offended or not.  icon_lol



I keep coming to this thread to find out the answer to this.  Jersoc?
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« Reply #64 on: December 09, 2009, 01:34:57 AM »

what?
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« Reply #65 on: December 09, 2009, 02:05:05 AM »

I really wish I could restart the second section again.  I screwed it up royally and want to give it another go.
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« Reply #66 on: December 09, 2009, 03:16:08 AM »

Quote from: jersoc on December 09, 2009, 01:34:57 AM

what?

What does "Like a card house in Denver" mean?
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« Reply #67 on: December 09, 2009, 10:24:44 AM »

denver is high up, i figure there's a lot of wind. cards and wind aren't a good mix.

does this have some alternative meaning i'm not familiar with?
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« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2009, 12:30:58 PM »

Quote from: Eel Snave on December 09, 2009, 02:05:05 AM

I really wish I could restart the second section again.  I screwed it up royally and want to give it another go.

How so? Not sure what you could screw up, except maybe resource wise. Even that shouldn't be a huge deal as long as you don't get stuck, since rewards increase. Unlike chapters 1 and 3, I lost elites in nearly every fight in chapter 2, sometimes several at once.
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« Reply #69 on: December 09, 2009, 02:22:24 PM »

Quote from: jersoc on December 09, 2009, 10:24:44 AM

denver is high up, i figure there's a lot of wind. cards and wind aren't a good mix.

does this have some alternative meaning i'm not familiar with?

Ah. No, but I was wondering if there was and I'd never heard it. Carry on. icon_wink
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« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2009, 07:02:19 PM »

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on December 09, 2009, 02:22:24 PM

Quote from: jersoc on December 09, 2009, 10:24:44 AM

denver is high up, i figure there's a lot of wind. cards and wind aren't a good mix.

does this have some alternative meaning i'm not familiar with?

Ah. No, but I was wondering if there was and I'd never heard it. Carry on. icon_wink

Yeah, I was scratching my head as well, since I live in Denver.  Thought there was some weird meaning to it.  I must say, though, having lived in Denver and Minneapolis, that Minneapolis is much windier.
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« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2009, 07:11:25 PM »

See, I would have thought Chicago would be a better fit for that analogy.  Windy City and all...
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« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2009, 05:07:07 AM »

Fuck it...I have had it with this game.  The mission where you need to hit two triggers at the same time to open the gate was the final straw.  I spent over an hour trying to line up enough fused and chained attack power to break through to both triggers at once, and on no less than a dozen different occasions, the AI would manage to place just enough troops in front (usually on a "random" summoning during the final turn before my guys fired off) to end my attack on one of the two triggers one...measly...square...short.

I'm glad you guys are enjoying it, but it simply isn't worth the aggravation to me.  It'll be up in the trading forum tomorrow, if anyone's interested.
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« Reply #73 on: December 10, 2009, 10:52:03 PM »

Ack!  Sorry to hear the game has frustrating sequences upcoming.  I just started it yesterday after being forum effected and had a blast.  The screenshots and descriptions seemed kind of lame to me, but after playing a bit it quickly became addictive.  Not sure how long I'll last if there are really difficult sequences coming up - there's no way to change the difficulty is there?
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Gratch
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« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2009, 11:34:47 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on December 10, 2009, 10:52:03 PM

Ack!  Sorry to hear the game has frustrating sequences upcoming.  I just started it yesterday after being forum effected and had a blast.  The screenshots and descriptions seemed kind of lame to me, but after playing a bit it quickly became addictive.  Not sure how long I'll last if there are really difficult sequences coming up - there's no way to change the difficulty is there?

YMMV, as most folks seem to really enjoy it.  I've been frustrated with one aspect of it or another from day 1, so don't let my opinion deter you.
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« Reply #75 on: December 11, 2009, 12:26:29 AM »

Quote from: Gratch on December 10, 2009, 11:34:47 PM

Quote from: rittchard on December 10, 2009, 10:52:03 PM

Ack!  Sorry to hear the game has frustrating sequences upcoming.  I just started it yesterday after being forum effected and had a blast.  The screenshots and descriptions seemed kind of lame to me, but after playing a bit it quickly became addictive.  Not sure how long I'll last if there are really difficult sequences coming up - there's no way to change the difficulty is there?

YMMV, as most folks seem to really enjoy it.  I've been frustrated with one aspect of it or another from day 1, so don't let my opinion deter you.

I guess this is the "reverse forum effect".  I won't be picking this up based on Gratch's comments.  There are too many good games and not enough hours in the day to spend my time on this.
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« Reply #76 on: December 11, 2009, 01:02:55 AM »

Quote from: rittchard on December 10, 2009, 10:52:03 PM

Ack!  Sorry to hear the game has frustrating sequences upcoming.  I just started it yesterday after being forum effected and had a blast.  The screenshots and descriptions seemed kind of lame to me, but after playing a bit it quickly became addictive.  Not sure how long I'll last if there are really difficult sequences coming up - there's no way to change the difficulty is there?

As Gratch more or less said, no game is for everyone. I don't remember that particular challenge being all that bad, but maybe I got a bit lucky. Some of the puzzles, on the other hand, really strained my brain. I'm on the 4th chapter now, and the most difficult by far was the early portion of chapter 2, where it was all I could do to find something to level up on in the early going. I really had to be careful with my resources in chapter 2 as well, because I lost knights left and right. That's in sharp contrast with chapter 3, where I had gold coming out of my ears (ghosts are super cool and you won't lose them in combat, usually).

If you need any help, let me know.
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Eel Snave
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« Reply #77 on: December 11, 2009, 01:06:39 AM »

I had a rough time on that challenge too, but I eventually got through.  It's certainly not for everyone, and it has its share of frustrating moments.
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« Reply #78 on: December 11, 2009, 01:33:00 AM »

Quote from: Eel Snave on December 11, 2009, 01:06:39 AM

I had a rough time on that challenge too, but I eventually got through.  It's certainly not for everyone, and it has its share of frustrating moments.

There are definitely some fights that take a bit to figure out, but I kind of like that. The difficulty is maybe a bit at odds with the art style. It looks like a light, casual rpg, but it isn't.
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rittchard
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« Reply #79 on: December 11, 2009, 06:19:54 PM »

I'm curious, are the actual fights randomized, at least in terms of initial units, or is each fixed like a true "puzzle" at the outset?  I'm assuming the former, but I had run the tutorial before starting the campaign and they clearly had the exact same unit setup for the first few battles.
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