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Author Topic: Microsoft and Backwards Compatibility...  (Read 1073 times)
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Dreamshadow
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« on: June 01, 2006, 08:06:31 PM »

Uh-oh.  http://www.gamingtrend.com/News/index.php#5984

Not encouraging news.
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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2006, 08:21:40 PM »

As time goes on, the backwards compatibility stuff bothers me less.  I think right now the only game I miss is SSX: On Tour.  As more games come out for the 360, the less I'm inclined to want to play an XBox game.

Backwards compatibility was great for the PS2 in theory, but I used it only a couple times.  I think the 360 is the same.   How many new exclusive XBox games are coming out now anyway?

Poorly worded comments though.
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Nth Power
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2006, 08:22:13 PM »

I wish MS would have more of a push for BC.  I know some people don't care, but it's nice to have the option to play old games without having to worry about my old XBox breaking down (and it saves space!).
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Farscry
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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2006, 08:32:35 PM »

Backwards compatibility is important to me; I used my PS2 for PS1 games a very large amount; it was great to be able to use it not only for PS2 games but also as a PS1 replacement.

I knew getting the 360 that BC was being treated in a really half-ass manner, and that it wouldn't be getting any better.  That doesn't mean I have to like it.
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2006, 08:36:30 PM »

BC is a big issue to me.  I find these comments insulting and offensive.  It really sours my taste on Microsoft, immediately after thinking how much better they're handling things than Sony right now.
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Tebunker
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2006, 08:52:47 PM »

right now I think it's the only major drawback on the 360.

In a year or so BC will be less important, but for me it will be nice to be able to chuck the Cube and get and Wii and not have to worry about not being able to finish games.

There are a lot of great Xbox games, ones that people still want to play, and it sucks that they can't.
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2006, 09:39:01 PM »

I looked at my library this morning before I came into work and was thinking about MS regarding BC. Then I actually read those comments and my blood pressure went through the roof. I have a library of games that I can't play (or play well) on the 360, so why the fuck should I go buy an entirely new system that renders my previous software purchases obsolete?

Who does Microsoft think they are, Apple? slywink
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Arkon
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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2006, 10:03:05 PM »

I sometimes wonder what area of the market us forum members make up.  To be honest I think we are a minority in the market.  During my few years of managing an EB I can count on maybe one hand the number of customers I had who used the backward compatability functionality of the PS2.  At the PS2 launch, 90% of the customers traded in thier PS1 and entire game library towards the purchase of the PS2.  In general I just don't think the average gamer (not us forum goers who I would call more hardcore) care about BC.  When they get a new system they are moving on to the new system.

The average gamer also rarely had a large backlog like we do here at GT.  75% of my customers would buy a game, play it, beat it and trade it back in 3 weeks later.

Oh well, just my 2cp.
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2006, 10:16:03 PM »

Just a few days ago, I started playing Indigo Prophecy for the X-Box and I think it's an amazingly fun and inventive game.  I picked up Mark Ecko's Getting Up for $10 at that big Circuit City sale this week, and I'll be keeping a careful eye on the availability of that new Dreamfall game so I can snatch it up before it vanishes from store shelves.  At some point this summer, I also intend to finally play the X-Box "Director's Cut" version of Fatal Frame 2 all the way through.
 
Backwards compatibility means a great deal to a person like me who enjoys playing older games that were missed the first time around.  I guess I'm too far in the minority for Microsoft's bigwigs to care about, but I consider the backwards compatibility feature of the Wii and PlayStation 3 to be one of their biggest selling points (or *only* selling point in the case of the PS3....)

-Autistic Angel
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Tebunker
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2006, 10:28:28 PM »

Quote from: "Arkon"
I sometimes wonder what area of the market us forum members make up.  To be honest I think we are a minority in the market.  During my few years of managing an EB I can count on maybe one hand the number of customers I had who used the backward compatability functionality of the PS2.  At the PS2 launch, 90% of the customers traded in thier PS1 and entire game library towards the purchase of the PS2.  In general I just don't think the average gamer (not us forum goers who I would call more hardcore) care about BC.  When they get a new system they are moving on to the new system.

The average gamer also rarely had a large backlog like we do here at GT.  75% of my customers would buy a game, play it, beat it and trade it back in 3 weeks later.

Oh well, just my 2cp.


It's more the parent's market, I can think of at least 20 or 25 sets of parents that would get upset of not being able to play their old Nintendo games on the New systems. BC has been a big boon for the GBA/DS it's what keeps folks buying them because they can buy practically any game for it.
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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2006, 12:10:04 AM »

Backwards compatibility really isn't a big concern for the console makers, it simply isn't a feature that sells consoles. I don't see why everyone gets so pissed off about it either, its not like once you get the 360 you have to get rid of your Xbox. So it makes your entertainment area a bit more cluttered, big fucking whoop. It wasn't a big deal when the N64 wasn't playing SNES games and the Dreamcast wasn't playing Saturn games, it isn't a big deal now and MS knows it. I prefer that Microsoft be working on a good next-gen lineup of games and not worrying about last generation.
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Dreamshadow
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« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2006, 12:44:14 AM »

Quote from: "Ridah"
Backwards compatibility really isn't a big concern for the console makers, it simply isn't a feature that sells consoles. I don't see why everyone gets so pissed off about it either, its not like once you get the 360 you have to get rid of your Xbox. So it makes your entertainment area a bit more cluttered, big fucking whoop. It wasn't a big deal when the N64 wasn't playing SNES games and the Dreamcast wasn't playing Saturn games, it isn't a big deal now and MS knows it. I prefer that Microsoft be working on a good next-gen lineup of games and not worrying about last generation.
See, I disagree...being able to play my collection of 20 or so PS1 games made my purchase of a PS2 a really big deal.  And this wouldn't be an issue if they used the previous hardware in the new design.  Honestly, that's why the PS2 BC works so well, and why I fear for the PS3 BC (as it has been reported to be software emulation).  If the PS3 had a PS1/PS2 built into it for BC, then I'd potentially jump on that high price bandwagon. As it stands, I'm just..well standing by till I hear the deluxe model is 300 or less.

I think MS could do better.  Considering the Xbox's hardware (mostly PC components, IIRC) I can't believe they would put that same hardware in the 360 chassis, along with the nice new 360 hardware...but if it is basically PC components, that means the critical changes in the 360 were software related, and they don't want to update the code to cover both systems.

But really, MS wants to push titles, not hardware in the end.  The current belief is that hardware makes no money for the console makers(I don't quite believe this is true but...) , it is titles that have the highest profit to cost ratio, so by announcing this..they start to force people to look forward to new titles which they can charge 50 bucks for, instead of 'Greatest hits' titles that only sell for 20 bucks and were Xbox games.  Marketing at its best...and possibly worst.
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2006, 02:48:31 AM »

Quote
I don't see why everyone gets so pissed off about it either


Instead of yelling at us about it, maybe try to see or at least understand that we do.  This is something I don't get.  I understand that BC isn't a big deal for you, and that doesn't bother me.  Why can't you do the same for my side?

It is, in fact, a big deal for me as the console space under my TV is limited and the Xbox takes up a lot of room.  Additionally, BC made the 360 and easier sell for my wife who now sees two consoles sitting there every day and doesn't like it.
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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2006, 04:33:47 AM »

And I don't even consider Xbox games to be old. I shouldn't expect that games released after the 360 was on the market to be BC? 2nd party games like Conker should certainly be. Live games do a lot to repair the schism between the console generations. I think they could have announced a "Special BC Editions" line of games and selectively released the titles and made a killing. I wish Microsoft would allow the developers to do it themselves. If the problem is the difficulty of the emulation, fine. Just let me know how things are progressing. If it's a time/teamsize problem, throw money at it and hire more coders.
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« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2006, 01:01:29 PM »

A response from the Microsoft PR blog about this:

http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2006/06/01/535135.aspx

Quote
Lots of talk about backwards compatibility online today.  We wanted to get to the bottom of it all, so we went right to the team working on the next back compat update.  We hear directly from them that they're in the testing phase of another update, and it should be out in the next few weeks.  We saw the list they're testing, and it looks like they're hoping to add at least a dozen titles.

Long before the launch, we thought we might hit a few dozen titles, and we all feel pretty good about the list of well over 200 titles on the back compat list today, including many of the games that you’ve asked for.  You all have heard us say the work isn't simple.  Many games did unique things to take advantage of the processing power of the Xbox, and that makes it difficult to emulate, especially when we then have to make new code work with existing (and future) compatible titles.

But rest assured, we're not done yet.

We know for a fact that there are lots of people who continue to care about backwards compatibility, including the "Emulation Ninjas" who are working full time on the updates.  And those of us posting on this blog.  And, of course, many of you.

Stay tuned for more information about the upcoming update…
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2006, 02:38:25 PM »

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We hear directly from them that they're in the testing phase of another update, and it should be out in the next few weeks. We saw the list they're testing, and it looks like they're hoping to add at least a dozen titles.


I wish they'd do this more often.

Though this may just be PR spin, at least it seems like they've heard what a blunder Moore's statement was.  Seems those of us who need BC are more numerous (or at least much louder) than many assume.
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