MGS3: It has clicked!

[ATB]

I've started over on MGS3 after giving up on it some months ago (after the first mission).  The controls clearly say that you need to press O to grab the guy.  Then it says you press L3 to interrogate. Every time I do that it slits the guy's throat.  I grab with O, hold O and then press L3.  Throat slit.

Am I supposed to grab the guy with O and let go of O and pres L3?  If I do that I let go of the guy completely.

HALP!

[Kevin Grey]

How hard are you pressing O?  MGS series is one of the few that actually uses the analog nature of the Dual Shock and, IIRC, you only hold O down part of the way to maintain the person in a CQC grab while jamming down on O results in a throat slitting. 

[ATB]

Well, I press it down however hard you have to have it held to grab the guy.  I guess that's too far.  I'll give the gentle press a try.

So far I'm not really enjoying this game very much...As I LOVED 1 & 2, I hope it gets more engaging.

I know you love 3, KG, but thus far it's leaving me cold.

[TheMissingLink]

Gentle with the O button.

MGS3 needs a few hours before the game really opens up and shows its true colors.  You'll be rewarded if you carry on

[Kevin Grey]

I know you love 3, KG, but thus far it's leaving me cold.

How far are you?  IMO the opening segment (before you see the title sequence) is very weak and not indicative of the rest of the game.  It's also a much longer game than the first two (probably twice as long as either of them) so it does take a little while to get going.

Learning how to use CQC is *instrumental* in enjoying the game.  It's not intuitive unfortunately but it works perfectly once you learn the ins and outs.

Have you checked out the help material in the title screen menu?  Lots of good info there.

Also, are you playing the original release or Subsistance?  The new camera in Subsistance is a huge improvement (and the old camera never even bothered me as much as it bothers many others). 

[Kevin Grey]

Oooh- you aren't by any chance using a Logitech Wireless PS2 controller are you?  It's a great controller for the most part but it's analog button functionality is borked and the MGS games are pretty much unplayable on them. 

EDIT- Also, if you are playing Subsistance, IIRC Konami cheaped out on the manual and might not have provided a good list of controls and moves.  Here is a link to a more complete manual from Konami's site:

http://www.konami-data.com/downloads/manuals/MGS3S_manual.pdf

[ATB]

Thanks KG. I actually have that additional manual and it's the only reason I have any idea what's going on.

As for my controller it's the standard sony branded dual shock.

Minor spoiler: I'm just after the the title sequence and have met with 'Adam' - pressing R1 to look at her body sure is a great gameplay addition. 

When you say 'learn CQC' what do you mean? Don't you just press O repeatedly? 

[Kevin Grey]

Er, I think you mean Eve

I wouldn't sweat it if you aren't into the game yet.  That's still very early.  There is a *lot* ahead of you.  You'll have a fairly long sequence ahead of you which before the first boss battle which will be opportune for learning the ins and outs of the game systems.  Don't just rush through each area to it's exit.  A lot can be gained through exploration.

Learning the capabilities of CQC is key.  Think of the O key as a modifier- it sends you into CQC mode and then you have a variety of options:

- Interrogation:  Some really useful information can be obtained like getting someone to mark the locations of all soldiers in the area on your map and some other things like special frequencies that can do some very cool things.

- Knock them out: self explanatory.  Enemies will wake up though and the much larger areas contained in MGS3 means it's much less likely that you'll have cleared the area before they do.

- Slitting throats: self explanatory again.  Permanent removal though it will automatically spring an alert if bodies are discovered.

- Throw the enemy

- On the ground hold-up:  This move is key if you want to permanently incapacitate an enemy in a non-lethal manner.  It's also the hardest move to pull off.  Basically, throw the enemy to the ground and then perform an immediate hold up on them.  They will put their hands behind their head like a normal, standing holdup.  However the key difference here is that the enemy will never stand back up again.  So you can go elsewhere in the level and not worry about them causing you anymore trouble. 

Then there's the stuff you can do in straight up combat- Grabbing enemies, using them as shields, throwing them into one another, etc.  You can actually move through a small group of enemies in this manner and dispatch them using only your knife.

There is so much more cool stuff too but I'm loathe to mention any of them for spoilers.  This game really rewards experimentation. 

[ATB]

Er, I think you mean Eve

OMG was trying not to spoilar~!

[ATB]

So...the game is humming on all cylinders right now.

I've completed the first two boss battles (MGS' are always a blast) and the controls have gelled for me and the story is starting to engage.

The writing is brilliant, sardonic and witty.   I'm rather enjoying it. W00hoo!

[ATB]

The innovations like managing your camoflauge, healing yourself and capturing food add a new wrinkle that I hope somehow carry over into PT 4.

I'm attempting to go through the game without killing anyone (other than the two guys whose necks I slit accidentally, but won't hesitate to use lethal force if my life is on the line.

[Kevin Grey]

The innovations like managing your camoflauge, healing yourself and capturing food add a new wrinkle that I hope somehow carry over into PT 4.

Camo is a huge part of MGS4 and is also less cumbersome to use.  Don't know about healing/food though. 

Glad to hear that it clicked for you!  The game only gets better from there. 

[warning]

ATB you kill me with your thread title changes!

I only got about 2 hours into MGS3 and really need to get back to it.  Does most of it take place outdoors?  For some reason I didn't find the outdoor parts of the beginning very compelling.

[Kevin Grey]

ATB you kill me with your thread title changes!

I only got about 2 hours into MGS3 and really need to get back to it.  Does most of it take place outdoors?  For some reason I didn't find the outdoor parts of the beginning very compelling.

Probably 70/30 outdoors to indoors (might even be 80/20).  But there is a huge variety in the locations that the first couple of areas don't really get across. 

[TheMissingLink]

Bravo   Get ready for a helluva ride.

[Eduardo X]

I think the MGS games are quite fun, but I'm... shocked to hear people think the writing is good. I think it is funny, in a silly way, and then trite and cumbersome as you sit through 30 minutes of cutscene.
What about the writing do you find brilliant? I can see the sardonic....

[metallicorphan]

I think the MGS games are quite fun, but I'm... shocked to hear people think the writing is good. I think it is funny, in a silly way, and then trite and cumbersome as you sit through 30 minutes of cutscene.
What about the writing do you find brilliant? I can see the sardonic....

yeah i think of the MGS stories as tongue in cheek,fun and take the seriousness of it with a pinch of salt


MGS3 is my favourite metal gear game,when snake got the eye patch,it seemed to complete him,and as the character was based of snake pliskin from escape from new york,i would say the eye patch was a long time coming

NOTE TO SELF:have to start port ops again sometime

[Teggy]

I just started playing this yesterday after a replay of MGS1. A few months ago I started it up before to see what it was like, but I only got to the part where

Spoiler for Hiden:

you meet Ocelot.  Do they explain why he went from a Russian guy to sounding like a cowboy?

Yesterday I just played enough to get past all the opening cutscenes and spot the first enemies.  So I have this straight, to enter into CQC, do you hold down the O button, or just hit it, like a toggle?

[ATB]

I guess I should say there are flashes of brilliance.

I think many of the interactions between snake and para medic are very clever. 

I just also saw a conversation about james bond. It made me laugh out loud more than once.

So brilliant in a way...not Tolkein or John Steinbeck brilliant.

[Kevin Grey]

Teggy, one could try and explain that inconsistency but it's better not to worry about it. 

[warning]

Teggy, one could try and explain that inconsistency but it's better not to worry about it. 

Austin: So, Basil, if I travel back to 1969 and I was frozen in 1967, presumeably, I could go back and look at my frozen self. But, if I'm still frozen in 1967, how could I have been unthawed in the '90s and traveled back to the '60s?
[goes cross-eyed]
Austin: Oh, no, I've gone cross-eyed.
Basil: I suggest you don't worry about those things and just enjoy yourself.
[to camera]
Basil: That goes for you all, too.
Austin: Yes.

[TheMissingLink]

I found all the convo's about the different movies to be really cool - especially since I had taken a film class dealing with many of those movies at nearly the same time

It's a lot better than hearing famous quotes from Otacon, AMIRITE?

[Teggy]

Holy cow, played for about an hour and a half tonight and I think I finally actually got to the start of the game. Considering that that I remembered a very simple way to get through the beginning of the game from the time I started it up before, I spent almost that entire time watching cutscenes.  That's like watching a whole movie before you can actually start playing a game.

Not that I minded - it's MGS so I kind of knew what I was getting into, but it seemed like overkill, even for MGS.  And the

Spoiler for Hiden:

James Bond credit sequence - crazy.

The one thing I am kind of turned off by is

Spoiler for Hiden:

the superpowered bad guys.  In MGS1, all the bad guys had special skills, but a bunch were at least somewhat grounded in reality (Sniper Wolf, Ocelot, Vulcan Raven and Grey Fox had a special suit to help him.  Psycho Mantis and Decoy Octopus are another story).  In MGS2 you had guys like Vamp and Fortune, but also the bomb guy, who was basically human.  From what I can see so far, it seems all the bad guys have some kind of crazy super power - with the exception of The Boss, who is some sort of ageless female WW2 superhero, which is a little weird for other reasons.  Well, I really know very little about anyone at the moment, so hopefully it will become more clear as the game goes on.

Oh, and I figured out the CQC as well.

[Kevin Grey]

Teggy, with only a couple of exceptions, the Cobras really aren't explained in much detail.  No long backstories as they lie on their deathbeds like in the other games.

I don't think they are anymore outlandish than the stuff from the previous games though. For example, Greyfox wasn't just a guy in a suit of armor- for all intents and purposes he had been brought back from the dead.  Even Vulcan Raven had some supernatural characteristics. Really the MGS bosses that were completely on the up and up and "plausible" were the exception rather than the rule.   

[TheMissingLink]

And a big exception is the brilliant story about:

Spoiler for Hiden:

The Sorrow and The Boss (The Joy)

Ugh, I wish I wasn't re-playing MGS2 so I can play MGS3 again

[Darren8r]

Oh just wait till you replay the game with the Patriot, unlimited ammo, just mow those guys down, bayum shooting everyone off the bridge, so much fun haha, BAYUM headshot.

Its fun to be sneaky too, but the second time through, get out that Patriot.

[Teggy]

Ugh, I wish I wasn't re-playing MGS2 so I can play MGS3 again

I was considering replaying MGS2 after replaying MGS1, but my memories of it are so meh I decided to just go on to MGS3. The beginning of MGS2 was cool, but the Big Shell is such a boring environment to me and I recall hating the

Spoiler for Hiden:

boss fight where you have to destroy an army of Metal Gears.

I doubt I'll wind up playing it again.  I should probably just sell my copy and then pick up the Substance version if I ever get the urge to play it.

[Teggy]

Oh, and one pet peeve about MGS3.  (I'll be vague here so I don't need to use spoiler tags) When you reach your destination during the first mission, your handler asks you what you did about the guards.  You say, "I had to take them out".

Now, I didn't touch a soul on my way to the target (especially since the handler stated that this is a sneaking mission.)  Couldn't they change the dialog to represent what you actually did?

[Kevin Grey]

Oh, and one pet peeve about MGS3.  (I'll be vague here so I don't need to use spoiler tags) When you reach your destination during the first mission, your handler asks you what you did about the guards.  You say, "I had to take them out".

Now, I didn't touch a soul on my way to the target (especially since the handler stated that this is a sneaking mission.)  Couldn't they change the dialog to represent what you actually did?

It actually will- I got the game to acknowledge that I hadn't been detected on my last playthrough.  I'm not sure what the trigger is though since I had previously made it to that point and got the "I had to take them out" dialogue when I shouldn't have. 

[Teggy]

Oh, and one pet peeve about MGS3.  (I'll be vague here so I don't need to use spoiler tags) When you reach your destination during the first mission, your handler asks you what you did about the guards.  You say, "I had to take them out".

Now, I didn't touch a soul on my way to the target (especially since the handler stated that this is a sneaking mission.)  Couldn't they change the dialog to represent what you actually did?

It actually will- I got the game to acknowledge that I hadn't been detected on my last playthrough.  I'm not sure what the trigger is though since I had previously made it to that point and got the "I had to take them out" dialogue when I shouldn't have. 

Ah, weird.  I wonder if it was because I had been caught a couple of times on my way and decided to play around with CQC before they shot me to death.  In my mind I had never killed anyone because I replayed those sequences, but in the game's mind I had.

[ATB]

I spent almost 2 hrs on one area the other night. Perfect infiltration.  Got supplies. Blew up an armory and then...Perfect exfiltration.  It. was. awesome.

Then I realized I went the wrong way.  I started in the south and worked my way all the way around the base...and back to the south.  Then I realized there was a map  .

On my way back through I was careful but not perfect.

[Kevin Grey]

ATB, did you blow up the helicopter?

[ATB]

ATB, did you blow up the helicopter?

NO.

Should i go back?  I actually don't think i can, but is it worth replaying to do it?!

I never even thought of it.

ARGH!

[Kevin Grey]

Nah, don't go back.  It just means that you'll have to face one extra helicopter later in the game.  Just a cool little detail.