Max Payne 3?

[Razgon]

Well, I'm not surprised. They changed the concept behind the IP, turned it into something that we've seen quite a lot of times before and without a single unique selling point then expected it to sell well?

They didn't really change the concept; I'm not sure where you're getting that.  The only reason we've seen things like it before is that many have imitated the property since then, which made it a challenge to bring it to a modern audience, and I think they pulled it off spectacularly.  In practice, it's quite different from most other titles out there.  It certainly has a lot more personality and story than generic shooters.

It's too bad it didn't sell well.

Have you played the two previous Max Payne games then? Do you remember what made them special? How the characters acted? What was going on in the world? How god damn crazy everything was because of what was going on?

There is basically nothing of the same style of noir in this game.

[Bullwinkle]

Well, I'm not surprised. They changed the concept behind the IP, turned it into something that we've seen quite a lot of times before and without a single unique selling point then expected it to sell well?

They didn't really change the concept; I'm not sure where you're getting that.  The only reason we've seen things like it before is that many have imitated the property since then, which made it a challenge to bring it to a modern audience, and I think they pulled it off spectacularly.  In practice, it's quite different from most other titles out there.  It certainly has a lot more personality and story than generic shooters.

It's too bad it didn't sell well.

Have you played the two previous Max Payne games then? Do you remember what made them special? How the characters acted? What was going on in the world? How god damn crazy everything was because of what was going on?

There is basically nothing of the same style of noir in this game.

I have, and I think this game follows that theme completely, refining it for modern tastes.  Especially in the New York segments.  I would say that the other segments highlight it even more by way of contrast.

[Harkonis]

I thought the game felt just like Max Payne, both in story and execution.

[Ridah]

I enjoyed the game, but it didn't feel like Max Payne to me. The most recognizable aspect of it was the bullet time and the first-person narration - otherwise, the soul of Max Payne was completely lost in MP3. Most of the time I felt like I was playing a story mission in GTA4, minus any open-world roaming and driving. The gameplay mechanics were decent but at times mediocre. Coming from a huge fan of the first two games, Rockstar did not do the series justice and I would have been fine with this game not coming out at all.

[TiLT]

The gameplay mechanics were decent but at times mediocre. Coming from a huge fan of the first two games

The game I've played through the most times ever is Blade Runner. The next two games in that list are Max Payne 1 and 2. I've played through each of them AT LEAST 5 times (probably a handful more. It's been a while), with the last being less than 2 years ago. I can tell you that the game mechanics in Max Payne 3 are nearly identical to the previous two games, with just a few tweaks. As a huge fan, you're probably blinding yourself from remembering the other games properly, or confusing your feelings about the game mechanics with your feelings about the story treatment.

[Razgon]

Game mechanics does not make a game though - Story, character, and design does. And this is not how Max Payne 1 and 2 did things.

Hey, I can list myself as having played Max Payne many times - even as recently as this year if that lends credibility to my posts?

[EngineNo9]

Game mechanics does not make a game though - Story, character, and design does.

Maybe not for you, but mechanics are exactly what makes a game for me.  The story in Diablo 3?  Smash some loot pinatas.  How about Dragon's Dogma that has kept me busy for weeks?  Don't care a bit about the story.  Pretty much any driving game worth it's salt?  No story.  What was the story in Just Cause 2?  Fucked if I know.  Kill some dictators or something while you do lots of awesome stuff.  Or just do lots of awesome stuff!

Anyway, that's just an aside.  I still haven't even played Max Payne 3 beyond the first unskippable cutscene since they delayed the PC release until the point where I was caught up in other games.

[Bullwinkle]

Game mechanics does not make a game though - Story, character, and design does.

Maybe not for you, but mechanics are exactly what makes a game for me.  The story in Diablo 3?  Smash some loot pinatas.  How about Dragon's Dogma that has kept me busy for weeks?  Don't care a bit about the story.  Pretty much any driving game worth it's salt?  No story.  What was the story in Just Cause 2?  Fucked if I know.  Kill some dictators or something while you do lots of awesome stuff.  Or just do lots of awesome stuff!

Anyway, that's just an aside.  I still haven't even played Max Payne 3 beyond the first unskippable cutscene since they delayed the PC release until the point where I was caught up in other games.

It's true that game mechanics don't make every game, but story and tone were a big part of what made Max Payne special.  There was a cheesiness that was dropped in the modern one (a good choice, IMO), but otherwise the tone and story are very similar to what came before, just tweaked to make it work for today.

[Ridah]

The gameplay mechanics were decent but at times mediocre. Coming from a huge fan of the first two games

The game I've played through the most times ever is Blade Runner. The next two games in that list are Max Payne 1 and 2. I've played through each of them AT LEAST 5 times (probably a handful more. It's been a while), with the last being less than 2 years ago. I can tell you that the game mechanics in Max Payne 3 are nearly identical to the previous two games, with just a few tweaks. As a huge fan, you're probably blinding yourself from remembering the other games properly, or confusing your feelings about the game mechanics with your feelings about the story treatment.

My feelings about MP3's gameplay mechanics are independent of my feelings for the old games. I think a big problem is the blend of animation and physics that Rockstar keeps touting, I appreciate what they were going for but they simply couldn't execute it right.

From a superficial standpoint, yes, I'm directly comparing MP3 to the old games. I agree with Razgon that taking the game out of New York, save for those few flashback chapters which were most likely sewed in after everyone flipped out about a bald Max in Brazil, hurt the game the most.

[Harkonis]

It's not as david finchy surreal, but I thought it fit right in with Max's life and where he was heading.

[Razgon]

Game mechanics does not make a game though - Story, character, and design does.

Maybe not for you, but mechanics are exactly what makes a game for me.  The story in Diablo 3?  Smash some loot pinatas.  How about Dragon's Dogma that has kept me busy for weeks?  Don't care a bit about the story.  Pretty much any driving game worth it's salt?  No story.  What was the story in Just Cause 2?  Fucked if I know.  Kill some dictators or something while you do lots of awesome stuff.  Or just do lots of awesome stuff!

Anyway, that's just an aside.  I still haven't even played Max Payne 3 beyond the first unskippable cutscene since they delayed the PC release until the point where I was caught up in other games.

Diablo 3 is actually a good example. The previous games had a special style of both design, and the way it told a story that they have actually kept true to in D3. Dragons Dogma has no real story thats true, but games like Max Payne oozes character, and that is NOT because of it being a shooter. Thats because of the whole crazy setup, the wooden(hah) dialogue, the quivering bullet waiting like an express train in the barrel of a gun for a rainy, New York, and the crazy ass people like Ivan who added quite a bit to the story.
Its like they skimmed the previous games and though - Hey, max Payne is a good guy who lost his family and now probably drinks... We'll put him in sunny brazil and have fun there, and it'll be *just* like the previous games.

Oh well - this is probably the last one since the previous didn't sell all that well either so its really of no consequence. I was just sad that the game wasn't all that, as it could have been awesome if they followed the old max payne games more closely.

[TiLT]

There really wasn't anything for Max Payne to do in New York any more. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that every single named character from Max Payne 1 and 2 (except Max himself) is dead when the credits roll in the second game.

[Bullwinkle]

The New York scenes were integral to the story and in no way stapled in later to appease anyone.

Additionally, we don't get bald Max until the second disc, and by that point, it's understandable how he got there.

And as for the "fun" setting, it only served to highlight Max's dark mood by contrast.  This actually happened quite a bit in classic noir films.

[TiLT]

And as for the "fun" setting, it only served to highlight Max's dark mood by contrast.  This actually happened quite a bit in classic noir films.

There's also really nothing "fun" about it. Anyone who thinks that must have either just watched previews or haven't been paying attention. Everything Max gets involved with in this game is bleak as hell, even if it happens in sunlight (which is much more rare than you'd think by watching previews. Most of the game happens at night or inside dark buildings). Even parties are dark affairs as seen through Max's eyes, where he's surrounded by false, possibly dangerous people and lots and lots of cheap booze, which he readily uses to dig himself a hole to feel sorry for himself in.

[Harkonis]

'Even the parties were bleak affairs, with the blood of the partygoers pouring over the rocks like scotch over ice and there wasn't a damn thing I could do to stop it' 

[Isgrimnur]

Been catching up on Extra Credits, and MP3 factors pretty heavily into their hard-boiled episode.

[USMC Kato]

This is a little off topic, but I watched the Denzel Washington movie "Man on Fire" last night. Extremely similar in storyline and character with Max Payne 3.

[metallicorphan]

This is a little off topic, but I watched the Denzel Washington movie "Man on Fire" last night. Extremely similar in storyline and character with Max Payne 3.

is it more Max Payne than Wahlberg's Max Payne?,My dad gave me all his old DVDs last week,and one them was Max Payne which i have never seen

[Harkonis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWMiIJ6B-7k&feature=channel&list=UL

[Razgon]

This is a little off topic, but I watched the Denzel Washington movie "Man on Fire" last night. Extremely similar in storyline and character with Max Payne 3.

is it more Max Payne than Wahlberg's Max Payne?,My dad gave me all his old DVDs last week,and one them was Max Payne which i have never seen

The Max Payne movie is a horrible piece of crap, I'm afraid. It has little to do with the computergame, and its not a very interesting movie on its own. Man on fire though, its a brilliant movie - watch it if possible. Its by the other ridley :-)

[CeeKay]

This is a little off topic, but I watched the Denzel Washington movie "Man on Fire" last night. Extremely similar in storyline and character with Max Payne 3.

is it more Max Payne than Wahlberg's Max Payne?,My dad gave me all his old DVDs last week,and one them was Max Payne which i have never seen

The Max Payne movie is a horrible piece of crap, I'm afraid. It has little to do with the computergame, and its not a very interesting movie on its own. Man on fire though, its a brilliant movie - watch it if possible. Its by the other ridley :-)

Mr. Bean's Johnny English is more Max Payne than Marky Mark's Max Payne.

[EngineNo9]

Gamasutra is reporting that Rockstar Vancouver, the lead development studio for Max Payne 3, is being shutdown and consolidated into Rockstar Toronto.   

[Ridah]

Gamasutra is reporting that Rockstar Vancouver, the lead development studio for Max Payne 3, is being shutdown and consolidated into Rockstar Toronto.   

That studio made Homeworld: Cataclysm and Bully. Max Payne 3 wasn't their finest game, but they are a talented team. Hopefully they all got moved to Vancouver, or at least the key people.