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Author Topic: Mass Effect 3 - Spoilers/Ending (Now with Spoiler Tags)  (Read 4588 times)
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Turtle
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« Reply #120 on: April 06, 2012, 02:12:49 AM »

Here's my thought on the whole use of the "it's art" defense from someone who is an actual artist, both a 2d and 3d artists, and someone who used to write fiction a lot and was trained to do so.

Great art is not created in a vacuum. Even the greatest of artists had peers and predecessors to with whom to compare, critique, and learn from. Leonardo DaVinci had the works of great painters, scientists, and others to call on before him even though he is considered one of the greatest pioneers of art. Then, especially in story, the greatest writers actually always have peer groups to discuss and learn from. That is actually the creative process, and part of that process is for the creator to create a quality product that fits. One does not paint a 3 panel painting with the third panel a mess, or maybe someone does, but there needs to be a reason. Otherwise, such artists, while respected, can be rightfully critiqued or ridiculed. And yes, I've seen artists go and repaint something and make it better from critique, even after technically finishing the product.

Most people actually don't realize how much of the creative process is revisions in response to critique, and a lot of that actually comes after the artist thinks he's done. And when that artist changes things, he's doing it for various reasons, but most artists who make those changes aren't doing it to appease the masses, rather, it's because his peers have shown him where there are problems in his work. After all, I think all of us have had plenty of situations where some idea we think a world of cool, turns out to be a turd the moment we think on it, or tell it to someone else.

Many instructors and peers of mine have said that the true strength in creating art, whether that's painting, writing, or music is the ability to take criticisms well and make your work better from it. It's not just to become some wall that considers your work godlike.

As a fellow creator, who knows how stories are told, I look at all the things they did right in ME1, ME2, and 99% of ME3 and see the ending as a breakdown of that process. Something went terribly wrong, and there's a real reason why the community has reacted as it did. I mean, anyone ever seen Project Runway? Tongue

ME3 and the series is as corporate as you can get of a product, I laugh at anyone trying to pass it off as purely art. It is still art, and it is definitely art to a great degree, but to try and say every part of it is art and worthy of some higher level protection is pretty much holding up a paper shield trying to deflect just and proper criticism (from most people anyway). A product can be both art and a product.

After all, Leonardo, Raphael, and even many modern painters today are painting under contract, or with the intent to sell their painting, and they demanded quality. Even Van Gogh, a failure of his time, still painted to make money. His work was genious for its originality that made his pieces stand the test of time. This ending isn't genious.

Oh, and artistic vision in a corporate product where they tie multiplayer that has microtransactions deliberately into single player via an arbitrary percentage number is a joke. I actually thought the idea was cool at first when I first heard it, contrary to most, but the actual implementation was definitely a money grab. The same goes for the DLC story elements, which although I'm somewhat okay with, still makes a mockery of these artistic protections people are spouting for the game. Again, it's a corporate product, still a noble and worthy artistic production.

It's clear that there were many very non-artistic decisions made in the creation of this product. This corporate input clearly affected the game in many ways. Why shouldn't input from the people that matter?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 02:16:25 AM by Turtle » Logged
naednek
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« Reply #121 on: April 06, 2012, 04:11:55 PM »

Quote from: namatoki on April 06, 2012, 12:53:02 AM





Actually, in the cut scene, you do see which color each option is and you can see the color of the lights from the bottom of the ramp.

Ya after watching some videos about the ending I noticed that.  I think it was badly presented.  Why would they force you from going back down the ramp if you changed your mind? 
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namatoki
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« Reply #122 on: April 06, 2012, 04:33:32 PM »

Quote from: naednek on April 06, 2012, 04:11:55 PM

Quote from: namatoki on April 06, 2012, 12:53:02 AM


Actually, in the cut scene, you do see which color each option is and you can see the color of the lights from the bottom of the ramp.

Ya after watching some videos about the ending I noticed that.  I think it was badly presented.  Why would they force you from going back down the ramp if you changed your mind? 

I'm not sure how far up the ramp you've must have gone, because I've been able to go up to a little past the top of the ramp and still can go back down. Apparently, there is different music playing on the two ramps and I tried going to both to check it out.
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naednek
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« Reply #123 on: April 06, 2012, 10:20:43 PM »

Quote from: namatoki on April 06, 2012, 04:33:32 PM

Quote from: naednek on April 06, 2012, 04:11:55 PM

Quote from: namatoki on April 06, 2012, 12:53:02 AM


Actually, in the cut scene, you do see which color each option is and you can see the color of the lights from the bottom of the ramp.

Ya after watching some videos about the ending I noticed that.  I think it was badly presented.  Why would they force you from going back down the ramp if you changed your mind? 

I'm not sure how far up the ramp you've must have gone, because I've been able to go up to a little past the top of the ramp and still can go back down. Apparently, there is different music playing on the two ramps and I tried going to both to check it out.

I went all the way to the top so when the cursor goes over the target area the label showed up.  I didn't put the colors together until after watching the videos.  Either way, there's no reason to limit my movement no matter how far up the ramp I went.
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Roguetad
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« Reply #124 on: April 09, 2012, 06:54:15 PM »

I finished ME3 on the PC this weekend.  It really felt like they had to rush development in the end.  The assault on Earth
Spoiler for Hiden:
was kind of lame, in an otherwise great build up to the ending.  And by lame I mean they could have done so much more.  Instead I experienced the wave after wave approach, which seemed like a letdown.  The conveniently staged crew members, plus the comm officer with working links to all of my old teammates and friends, seemed like they just ran out of time.  Not a very creative way to handle those relationships.  It felt tacked on to me.


As for the ending,
Spoiler for Hiden:
I went the green route, choosing synthesis.  I don't mind that they decided to get a little crazy in the end, what I do mind is being forced into 3 severe choices, without any dialogue opportunity to reason with the citadel entity.  That was the biggest dissapointment for me.  Again, it really felt like they just ran out of time, which is too bad.  There was so much more they could have done to conclude that story arc.  Even simplify the conclusion, and make it short and sweet.
 

As for the indoctrination theory, I understood that part as the ILM using what he learned to try and control Shephard and Anderson, not that the Reapers were trying to indoctrinate Shephard.  

So, I don't have an issue with going weird on the ending, I think they ran out of time, and their execution stunk.
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Roguetad
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« Reply #125 on: April 11, 2012, 05:53:31 PM »

I just finished my console playthrough on the 360, so I have the ending fresh in my mind from having completed it on the PC too.  I hope someday we get an insider's development scoop on ME3, because it would be really interesting to hear about the pressures and team dynamics they were feeling towards the end of development.  With what they were able to accomplish with the suicide run in ME2, I know they can make good endings.  My guess is that they didn't have the time to incorporate everything they wanted for the Earth segment.  I read that some of the key VO actors had to be called back in late November to record the lines for the section in the Citadel, because they didn't have them ready during the scheduled recording session earlier that summer.  With what I experienced during the Earth section, I can't believe that's what they were hoping to do. 

- When I saw Wrex giving his motivational all or none, do or die, fear the Krogan speech, I started to get goosebumps.  But then I got to the point in the terrain where I could look down at the group he was addressing, and it was like 15 krogan.  That's it?  Wrex even says, I know youre going to win this Shephard, because the krogan are here.  Those 15 must be baddasses.

- I laughed out loud when I saw James addressing his new command of 4.  He's a Lt, served with my Shephard on some really difficult (and important) missions, and they assign him to 4 guys?  That was silly.

The lineup of talking heads during that section felt like an amusent attraction rather than an organic experience.  They've done better with that kind of stuff in all of their ME games, so I have to believe again that they just weren't able to fully realize whatever concept or idea they had for Earth.       
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Blackjack
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« Reply #126 on: April 11, 2012, 07:14:00 PM »

Penny Arcade Report's Report on the Bioware ME3 panel at PAX.
*fwiw, it's pretty clear Bioware will never, ever admit that ME3's campaign ending is anything less than perfect, so don't go looking for a "mea culpa" here, per se.

Quote
“We want to give more closure about some of the questions you have,” Gamble explained, “and in general we wanted to give the players a sense of personalization with the endings. Many people mentioned that some of the choices they made in the game are not necessarily reflected in the ending scenes. We’re definitely going to focus on things like that. We want to make sure that when you see the ending of Mass Effect, you now have the information and context to be satisfied.”

They’re shooting for a “generic summer” release, and we’re told to expect a decent amount of content; the new information won’t be rushed. “It’s more than just a few cinematic scenes,” Gamble said. “We’re happy to be doing it.”

The panel pointed out that this content wasn’t in the game because they didn’t know fans wanted it.

“The dev team stands by what was released in the core product, and we’re very proud of it. It was important though for us to listen to the community, and a lot of that feedback didn’t come until the game came out. Once we were listening we decided to include the extended cut. It wasn’t in the game because we didn’t know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you.”
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