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Author Topic: Mass effect 2 Launch and impressions (the REAL One)  (Read 40519 times)
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CeeKay
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« Reply #800 on: February 22, 2010, 03:58:08 PM »

one thing that I thought of while resource gathering the other night:  you have this awesomely powerful AI who can do a gigatrimillion things at once, and even has times to make snarky remarks while probing Uranus, so why can't it scan and drop probes for you?
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« Reply #801 on: February 22, 2010, 04:11:07 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on February 22, 2010, 03:58:08 PM

one thing that I thought of while resource gathering the other night:  you have this awesomely powerful AI who can do a gigatrimillion things at once, and even has times to make snarky remarks while probing Uranus, so why can't it scan and drop probes for you?
Because most of her algorithms are devoted to seducing her LI, Jeff.  Once he falls, we will all be calculating Pi for the Overlord.
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« Reply #802 on: February 22, 2010, 04:54:26 PM »

Quote from: kadnod on February 22, 2010, 03:44:03 PM


Hopes for ME3
Spoiler for Hiden:
1) Improved resource gathering.   I didn't find the planet-probing too tedious, but it could definitely be improved on.  Perhaps adding a mechanic where you could just trade credits for resources in a pinch would be a good idea?  And from a story point of view, I didn't quite get why I was allowed to collect precious ores on inhabited planets without having to deal with the natives.  Was my goody-two-shoes Shepard stealing platinum from poor miners the entire time? Maybe this was explained away in the codex somewhere, but it seemed a bit weird to me.  Now that I think about it, restricting resource-gathering to uninhabited worlds, but making the per-world rewards greater, could be a good way to add to the sense of exploration while speeding the whole process up. 

2) Return of (most) of the crew from ME2 as full-fledged NPCs.   I imagine this might be hard to pull off, given the wide variety of possible deaths at the end of ME2, but I really hope at least half the crew makes this kind of transition.  Mordin, Tali, Legion and Garrus are all great and I'd hate to see them reduced to Liara-style cameos (or less) in the next game.  Heck, make Liara a member of the crew again, too. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Kaidan in the next one, but I've got a feeling he's being set up as some sort of anti-Shepard big-bad for the series finale. 

3) Less hokey endboss.   Speaking of antagonists, I (sorta) get why the Collectors were building a giant terminator at the end of the game, but it was still kind of silly.    Maybe a human-reaper didn't have to look like a really big dude?   I hope Harbinger's ultimate bad-ass form doesn't turn out to be a giant robot T-Rex or Trilobite or something.

Spoiler for Hiden:
re: 2) Most speculation is that Liara will be back as a crewmember in ME3. She is the only crewmember from ME1/2 that can not be dead in someone's plotline. Ashley. Wrex, Kaidan, and everyone from ME2 can be killed at some point. There are already fan efforts afoot on the Bioware forums to keep at least Tali and Garrus "alive". I saw a dev post that they are already working on "new" recruitable crew for ME3, so I'm going with mostly new + Liara. At least Joker and EDI should be back.

I can't see Kaidan being a major player in ME3 - for perhaps 50% of the people who are bringing forward an ME1 playthrough, he died on Virmire.

I expect Harbinger will look like Sovereign.

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« Reply #803 on: February 22, 2010, 05:00:36 PM »

Quote from: Barrakketh on February 22, 2010, 04:54:26 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
I can't see Kaidan being a major player in ME3 - for perhaps 50% of the people who are bringing forward an ME1 playthrough, he died on Virmire.


Wow, I figured what I saw on my playthrough was the only result possible.  You're probably right then!
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« Reply #804 on: February 22, 2010, 05:09:16 PM »

Hopes for Beyond ME:3

Mass Effect MMO  thumbsup
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« Reply #805 on: February 22, 2010, 05:14:25 PM »

Quote from: USMC Kato on February 22, 2010, 05:09:16 PM

Hopes for Beyond ME:3

Mass Effect MMO  thumbsup

World of Mass Effect
Mass Effect Galaxies
Richard Garriott's Mass Effect
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« Reply #806 on: February 22, 2010, 05:19:54 PM »

Actually, I suspect Kaiden will be another Human Spectre by the time ME3 rolls around.  I'm betting there will be some significant surprises for ME3 in terms of squad members and returning cast from ME1 and 2.  They'll go big for ME3 since it ends the series.

Oh, and there's already a Mass Effect Galaxy, that's the Iphone game.
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« Reply #807 on: February 22, 2010, 05:22:54 PM »

Quote from: USMC Kato on February 22, 2010, 05:09:16 PM

Hopes for Beyond ME:3

Mass Effect MMO  thumbsup

I don't know about that. One of the best parts of this series is how you're given real "between a rock and a hard place" tough decisions that change the world. Turning that into an MMO where nobodys actions ever change any anything is kind of a depressing prospect.
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« Reply #808 on: February 22, 2010, 05:27:33 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on February 22, 2010, 05:19:54 PM

Oh, and there's already a Mass Effect Galaxy, that's the Iphone game.

I know, mine was plural though  Tongue
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« Reply #809 on: February 22, 2010, 05:45:39 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on February 22, 2010, 05:19:54 PM

Actually, I suspect Kaiden will be another Human Spectre by the time ME3 rolls around.  I'm betting there will be some significant surprises for ME3 in terms of squad members and returning cast from ME1 and 2.  They'll go big for ME3 since it ends the series.


I guess that would be Ashley if you let Kaiden die in ME1, eh?  And I don't know about that.  None of the other characters seem to possess that quality that Shepard has where people would die willingly on his order.  Miranda even makes such an observation about Shepard's character in one of your conversations with her.
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« Reply #810 on: February 22, 2010, 06:01:05 PM »

I wonder if the 'no body was found' clause will be invoked for a return of Ashley or Kaidan from the dead in ME3.  sure, Ashley was right next to the nuke but that white light could have been something else....
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« Reply #811 on: February 22, 2010, 06:45:27 PM »

Yep, likely Ashley or Kaiden become spectres, or just have a similar role in the Alliance military like they already do.  There's different types of spectres.  Shepard is portrayed as the leader type, but guys like Nihlus worked alone and simply commandeered what he needed.

Don't start with the ridiculous claim that they survived a nuke, it's all over the official ME forums.  Some people just can't let go I guess.  No body was found because their bodies were vaporized in a nuclear inferno.  The devs have stated whoever you chose to die is dead, period.  Shepard gets a pass because he's the player character, and he's valuable to the fiction.

With that out of the way, the devs have clearly stated that these ME1 characters will have a much, much larger role in ME3, not just Liara, but Ashley and Kaiden.  This is part of the reason why they weren't in ME2.

Also, the devs have said they're really up to the task of making sure things come to their conclusion in ME3, this includes all those choices from ME1 and ME2, and teammates.  So I'm looking forward to something pretty big in two years when ME3 comes out.
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« Reply #812 on: February 22, 2010, 06:49:33 PM »

i made the choice to return it to the rental place instead frown

for me, the game ended up feeling like a choose your own adventure / interactive movie circa 1990 (remember when the CD drive first became "mainstream"???).

built on a middling 3rd person shooter engine (maybe im just nostalgic but i SWEAR the cover mechanic felt so much smoother and more natural in the first, where this go around i feel like im always fighting it to land in cover, or extract myself from it)

and the rpg element, inventory and character development (from a gameplay standpoint, NOT story) has been totally stripped out unless the player wants to engage in one of the most boring, mindnumbing and yes carpal tunnel inducing "minigames" ever.
even replacing hacking / bypass took out the sacrifice of bringing along that weaker character to access important areas (i remember taking the lil' droid along in EVERY mission in KOTOR, even though i SHOULD have had more powerful companions - now THAT was a meaningful choice!).  i even liked the mini-game, i just didnt like that it made teammates (from a gameplay standpoint) more generic.

same with the powers - i felt like i never really had to use them, except in a rock-paper-scissor way.  oh, orange bar?  use power X.  wait white?  use Y.  i dont know if id call that tactical combat, or an excuse to fudge near meaningless power upgrades in an attempt to pretend the game was like the first.

i dont know, the whole way through i just missed mass effect 1.  i hope in the 3rd they KEEP the great story exposition and presentation, and clean up the gameplay a TON, while bringing back a lot of what was stripped out of this one.  i really dont see the RPG story and the RPG gameplay as being mutually exclusive - and for me at least taking this in an RPG story direction WASNT a replacement for the gameplay that was taken out.  

sorry for the long rant as i know a lot of people really love the game, but i had to get it out (all my gamer friends are almost exclusively shooter types smile ).  i hope this isnt a "mainstreaming" of mass effect by taking out all that annoying loot and those evil numbers...
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« Reply #813 on: February 22, 2010, 07:23:13 PM »

Quote
...unless the player wants to engage in one of the most boring mindnumbing and yes carpal tunnel inducing "minigames" ever.

Melodramatic much? I can't take your impressions seriously with this comment, I'm sorry.
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« Reply #814 on: February 22, 2010, 08:09:59 PM »

Quote from: Ridah on February 22, 2010, 07:23:13 PM

Quote
...unless the player wants to engage in one of the most boring mindnumbing and yes carpal tunnel inducing "minigames" ever.

Melodramatic much? I can't take your impressions seriously with this comment, I'm sorry.


I'd actually agree with that point, but disagree on pretty much everything else.  That said, I don't have much basis for comparison when it comes to shooters, so maybe ME2 came across better than it should have for me.
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« Reply #815 on: February 22, 2010, 08:43:44 PM »

Im my opinion ME2 is superior to ME1 and I am greatly anticipating ME3.  Regarding the prospecting mini game..,Yeah it wasnt a shining example of fun game play but it wasnt like shoving nails in your eyes either.  I did what I had to and didnt sweat it too much.  I would have preferred that they had reworked the Mako and made mining a bit more interesting but it was no big deal.  As far as the powers,  I never felt they were necessary to get thru a fight, most of the weapons would carry you through, but I did find them both fun and entertaining to use.  While I enjoyed ME1, I felt the combat was smoother and more fun in ME2.  I for one welcomed the lack of a need to pick up and compare every frikkin weapon that dropped in ME1 in hopes of getting an upgrade.  Carrying all that crap around was senseless.  I like what ME2 did to streamline things.  After all Im playing Shepard as a fighting force to be reckoned with, not a packrat/trader.  The big difference between ME1 and 2 for me?  I felt they took out alot of what made ME1 tedious and made ME2 just more fun to play.
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« Reply #816 on: February 22, 2010, 08:45:41 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on February 22, 2010, 08:09:59 PM

Quote from: Ridah on February 22, 2010, 07:23:13 PM

Quote
...unless the player wants to engage in one of the most boring mindnumbing and yes carpal tunnel inducing "minigames" ever.


Melodramatic much? I can't take your impressions seriously with this comment, I'm sorry.


I'd actually agree with that point, but disagree on pretty much everything else.  That said, I don't have much basis for comparison when it comes to shooters, so maybe ME2 came across better than it should have for me.

I'm playing GTA4 right now and I'm really missing the 3rd person shooter controls from ME2.  I like the voice acting and main plot, but there are a lot gameplay elements in GTA4 that have me scratching my head why the game was rated so high.  The 3rd person shooter part is not good...even when compared to older games.  In comparison to some of the other games I've played with a 3rd person shooter gameplay mechanic, ME2 is pretty good.   
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« Reply #817 on: February 22, 2010, 08:45:46 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on February 22, 2010, 08:09:59 PM

Quote from: Ridah on February 22, 2010, 07:23:13 PM

Quote
...unless the player wants to engage in one of the most boring mindnumbing and yes carpal tunnel inducing "minigames" ever.

Melodramatic much? I can't take your impressions seriously with this comment, I'm sorry.


I'd actually agree with that point, but disagree on pretty much everything else.

I've been approaching the whole scanning thing a bit different my 2nd playthrough, and I haven't found it as tedious as before.  Granted, I didn't really mind it that much before; to me, it was a nice change of pace from time to time.

Quote from: Gratch on February 22, 2010, 08:09:59 PM

I don't have much basis for comparison when it comes to shooters, so maybe ME2 came across better than it should have for me.

It was, IMO, much better implemented than ME1.  I don't think it's as good a shooter as say, Gears of War, but it's really good for its genre.  The cover system worked well for me, and the shooting/biotics mechanics were well done.

My only gripe, and one that's been voiced in the thread before, is how the galaxy's gun technology has downgraded since ME1.  You go from having unlimited ammo, but the chance of overheating, to having to find "thermal" clips.  It felt a little cheap to go back like that.
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« Reply #818 on: February 22, 2010, 08:55:53 PM »

Quote from: Doopri on February 22, 2010, 06:49:33 PM

for me, the game ended up feeling like a choose your own adventure / interactive movie circa 1990 (remember when the CD drive first became "mainstream"???).

This comment confuses me.  Since this isn't an on-rails game like Final Fantasy (where you basically have no say in the outcome), what would you consider a better way to tell the story?
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« Reply #819 on: February 22, 2010, 08:58:43 PM »

Quote
That said, I don't have much basis for comparison when it comes to shooters, so maybe ME2 came across better than it should have for me.

again maybe its nostalgia (i didnt do the replay of ME 1 in anticipation so its been about 2 years since i played and loved that one) but i remember the FIRST game handling it better

on that initial mission when i was able to dash to cover and fire popshots off, i was in awe.  whereas this time around it felt much less smooth, crisp and natural.  im thinking all the story options and integration with ME1 took away development time from coding collision in the environments (because in ME 1 i also didnt have nearly as many "stuck in the environment" moments, if any)
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« Reply #820 on: February 22, 2010, 09:02:18 PM »

Quote
This comment confuses me.  Since this isn't an on-rails game like Final Fantasy (where you basically have no say in the outcome), what would you consider a better way to tell the story?

i cant think of ANY better way to tell the story.  my knock on the game is that it feels like bioware put ALL effort into telling this story, at the expense of several gameplay features.  i just wish they had done both (hence my choose your own adventure comment - i wish there had been more of the gameplay from the first in there, as well as more meaningful character development BEYOND story telling and personal interaction)
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« Reply #821 on: February 22, 2010, 09:05:11 PM »

Quote from: Doopri on February 22, 2010, 08:58:43 PM

im thinking all the story options and integration with ME1 took away development time from coding collision in the environments (because in ME 1 i also didnt have nearly as many "stuck in the environment" moments, if any)

Doopri, were you playing on a PC?  I've seen several comments about how players got stuck in the environment on the PC.  I got Shepard stuck on a platform during the "Recruit the Prisoner" mission, but I just kept moving around until he got down.  Other than that, the collision detection has been pretty spot-on.  Weird...
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« Reply #822 on: February 22, 2010, 09:15:03 PM »

nope xbox frown

several times i was able to fire off powers / weapons and get out, but other times (like my late-night pissed off rant yesterday smile ) i had to catch a restart

i REALLY wanted to like this one, and ill be honest if it werent called "mass effect 2" i probably would have.  many people even really liked the changes (im a bit sad about stripped down inventory being so popular frown - hope this isnt an overall trend in rpgs).

but i just had so many expectations after the first game and felt that aside from plot / story development, this was a step back.  now if bioware takes ME1 and smashes it together with ME2 to create ME3, ill be in gamer bliss because as much as im ragging now, i did REALLY like the stuff they did with the story, meaningful (PLOT) choices and especially integration with the first game.  but for me too much that i LIKED was taken out to accomplish all this.
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« Reply #823 on: February 22, 2010, 09:37:41 PM »

Quote from: Doopri on February 22, 2010, 08:58:43 PM

on that initial mission when i was able to dash to cover and fire popshots off, i was in awe.  whereas this time around it felt much less smooth, crisp and natural.  im thinking all the story options and integration with ME1 took away development time from coding collision in the environments (because in ME 1 i also didnt have nearly as many "stuck in the environment" moments, if any)

Interesting.  One of my biggest gripes with ME1 was the fact that although I could be shooting directly at an enemy, whether I actually hit them and did damage was based on invisible die rolls behind the scene.  It seemed very awkward (and completely counterintuitive) and took most of the fun out of the combat system.  Looking back, I enjoyed ME1 in spite of the combat...and this is coming from someone who doesn't like most FPS or 3rd-person shooters.  Sounds like you had exactly the opposite reaction.

Then again, I'm also a little strange in that I think combat is completely secondary to a good story.  I'm perfectly content to zip through most games on the Easiest setting just so I can advance the story, and I think ME2 struck the perfect balance between the two.
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« Reply #824 on: February 22, 2010, 10:08:17 PM »

it was more the moving into and out of cover that felt cumbersome.

i dont think id mind having combat remain "point-hit" without any number crunching in the background.  though only if there were some meaningful upgrades possible (think something like "steady aim" or "reduce recoil" - SOMETHING that differentiated the game from "just a 3rd person shooter" where i could decide to SAVE or KILL the SPIDER or HUMAN).  deus ex handled this decently - but imagine it incorporated with tech skills, biotic powers and more "mechanical" skills (bring back training to hack / bypass so being able to do so would require a character not being as proficient in gunplay or biotic skill, etc).
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« Reply #825 on: February 23, 2010, 12:34:08 AM »

Quote from: Doopri on February 22, 2010, 10:08:17 PM

it was more the moving into and out of cover that felt cumbersome.

Mantling is kind of awkward (small ledge? TAKE COVER!!  VAULT WITH GUSTO!!) but I don't get how going into or out of cover could be considered difficult. Press one button to enter cover, press another button or move away to disengage.   I can't think how it could be any simpler. 
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« Reply #826 on: February 23, 2010, 01:07:33 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on February 22, 2010, 06:45:27 PM

Yep, likely Ashley or Kaiden become spectres, or just have a similar role in the Alliance military like they already do.  There's different types of spectres.  Shepard is portrayed as the leader type, but guys like Nihlus worked alone and simply commandeered what he needed.

With that out of the way, the devs have clearly stated that these ME1 characters will have a much, much larger role in ME3, not just Liara, but Ashley and Kaiden.  This is part of the reason why they weren't in ME2.

I don't doubt that whoever is still alive of the Ashley/Kaidan duo will have a larger part in ME3. But, it would seem like a lot of work to have both voice actors do a ton of dialogue to cover redundant scenes if they are crewmembers. Being a Spectre but not a crewmember would work if they are some sort of Alliance liason for instance - even being on Normandy in the CIC.

The ME2 npc getting a lot of notice right now is Matriarch Aethyta - the bartender on Illium, who may or may not be Liara's father. That would be hilarious to have her on board. Also, we have yet to see a Volus crewmember. There must be one Volus in the galaxy that isn't a complete tool. I can't see a Hanar or Elcor fitting in, but anything is possible. Hmmm - how big is EDI's AI core? Could she download herself into a geth body and join Shepard on missions?  slywink
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« Reply #827 on: February 23, 2010, 03:09:52 AM »

Quote from: Barrakketh on February 23, 2010, 01:07:33 AM

I can't see a Hanar or Elcor fitting in, but anything is possible.

Two words:  Mounted.  Cannons.
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« Reply #828 on: February 23, 2010, 03:22:08 AM »

Quote
but I don't get how going into or out of cover could be considered difficult. Press one button to enter cover, press another button or move away to disengage.   I can't think how it could be any simpler.  

LOL i dont mean the actual action of pushing the A button -  again i think its more of a miss in collision detection.  i felt like i would pull off objects when i didnt want to when peaking out or around.  or that i wouldnt always "grab onto" an object when i WAS trying to enter cover.  

i could just have an overly rosy picture of the first game (i really SHOULD go back and play it) but i just felt like whenever i wanted to DO something involving cover in ME1, i hit the button, looked around a corner, peaked up, entered cover etc etc - the game always seemed to KNOW exactly what i was going for.  whereas in this i felt like im FIGHTING it - wanting to look over / around something and actually moving off cover, wanting to enter cover and instead just running into the wall - that type of stuff

*edit* all that said though, i had far fewer complaints (a few infuriating "stuck" moments aside) with the cover / collision than i did with things i felt were gameplay omissions - what i thought were slightly less polished environments were just the straws that finally... well you know

but no, i had no problem finding my A button smile
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« Reply #829 on: February 23, 2010, 03:24:58 AM »

oh and yes a hanar or elcor would be AWESOME!  were they even in this game?  i feel like i only came across one (anxious... are you going to shoot me? smile)

and i never saw a gasbag - did i just not play long enough?  because the interactions with those two in the original were great!  for pure humor value and line delivery they were top notch (anything that refers to itself in the third person is all kinds of win - bring 'em back!!!)
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« Reply #830 on: February 23, 2010, 03:43:53 AM »

Quote from: Doopri on February 23, 2010, 03:24:58 AM

oh and yes a hanar or elcor would be AWESOME!  were they even in this game?  i feel like i only came across one (anxious... are you going to shoot me? smile)

and i never saw a gasbag - did i just not play long enough?  because the interactions with those two in the original were great!  for pure humor value and line delivery they were top notch (anything that refers to itself in the third person is all kinds of win - bring 'em back!!!)

There were no Hanar you could talk to. I saw a few hovering on the Citadel. Then there was the whole joke about the "Blasto the Hanar Spectre" movie you could hear about on Illium. "Enkindle This!"

Elcor might be cool as a mobile heavy weapons platform, but has anyone seen one actually ambulate? They move on all fours and I suspect they do it... slowwwly. I could be wrong, but I always think of a Sloth when I see them.
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« Reply #831 on: February 23, 2010, 07:01:13 AM »

Zaeed also talks of Hanar.  How he was almost strangled to death by one, never underestimated them since.
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« Reply #832 on: February 23, 2010, 07:35:57 AM »

Theres an Elcor that is walking across the bridge on Citadel if you go to Ambassador Anderson's room and look out over the balcony.
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« Reply #833 on: February 23, 2010, 07:49:40 AM »

I don't know if I could deal with having to listen to an Elcor talk more than a few times.  he'd be the most ignored member of my crew.
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« Reply #834 on: February 23, 2010, 08:27:07 AM »

Bah, you know they'd do an awesome Elcor crewmate.  I mean, look what they did for a Salarian teammate, who was expecting him to be so awesome?  Also, in combat they're like tanks, their huge forms and high gravity adjusted bodies can carry what are normally vehicle mounted weapons.
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« Reply #835 on: February 23, 2010, 08:30:20 AM »

maybe they could make him the new vehicle for vehicle stages in ME3.  Shepard could ride it around like a horse  icon_twisted
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« Reply #836 on: February 23, 2010, 12:41:46 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on February 23, 2010, 07:01:13 AM

Zaeed also talks of Hanar.  How he was almost strangled to death by one, never underestimated them since.

Thane also talks about them quite a bit if you delve into his backstory.
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« Reply #837 on: February 23, 2010, 09:34:26 PM »

Quick question regarding the Zaeed loyalty mission.   
Spoiler for Hiden:
Is it possible to both save the people in the Merc base and still gain Zaeed's loyalty?
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« Reply #838 on: February 23, 2010, 09:38:44 PM »

Quote from: rshetts2 on February 23, 2010, 09:34:26 PM

Quick question regarding the Zaeed loyalty mission.   
Spoiler for Hiden:
Is it possible to both save the people in the Merc base and still gain Zaeed's loyalty?

Don't think so.  Played through it twice (once Paragon, once Renegade), and didn't see any way to do both.
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« Reply #839 on: February 23, 2010, 09:41:04 PM »

Thanks Gratch,  I figured it was that way but kinda hoped it wasnt.
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