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Author Topic: Lunar: Dragon Song  (Read 2339 times)
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weleavefossils
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« on: September 28, 2005, 04:07:41 AM »

Has this been released today (9/27)?  

I have seen that date on a few sites, but its not on nintendo at all..and I haven't had a chance to check at the store cause of my work schedule..

Can anyone confirm it, cause I would order it now..but if it's not out yet and there is no set date I don't want to order it.  

http://www.lunar-net.com/ds/
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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2005, 04:42:11 AM »

I'm going to wait after reading some early reviews.  Planetgamecube wasn't very thrilled:
Quote
But even auto-battle can't help the unbelievably slow pace of the game's battles. At normal speed, it's not uncommon for a battle to last over five minutes, and you'll need to complete hundreds of these battles to get through the entire game. That would be fine if the battles were interesting, but again, there's little for you to do but watch the attack animations and heal if a character gets too low on hit points. The L and R buttons can be held down to double and triple the battle animation speed, respectively. Even at triple speed with auto-battle skipping over the menu choices, the battles are still agonizingly slow and uneventful. Fighting battles in Dragon Song feels more like babysitting than anything, and I really can't stress enough how much the game suffers for these problems.

They gave it an overall score of 5.5/10


From 1up:
Quote
Some of the decisions made by the designers seem only designed to pad out the game, and consequently, are largely irritating, though surmountable...you just get used to Dragon Song's awkwardness. The most immediately noticeable and egregious is that you lose HP by holding B to dash in towns and dungeons; this makes the game slow-paced, as you are forced to walk to conserve health.

What the hell?


From Gamespy:
Quote
Dragon Song manages to offer a serviceable, albeit clichéd plot that lures you in … after several grating hours of gameplay.

Gamespy gave it a 4/5.

Just doesn't sound quite as good as I'd hoped.
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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2005, 05:39:39 AM »

With Castlevania and Into the Blue coming out in the next seven days, I think it's safe to say 'screw this.'
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EddieA
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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2005, 06:06:18 AM »

I love the Lunar series, and will definitely be getting this as soon as I buy a DS.  None of the problems seem all that bad, and it sounds like the highlights of the series (the characters and story) are still there.
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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2005, 01:05:28 PM »

I am still interested but I have to say that the reviews are not inspiring.  

I will probably get it but not until I have finished some other games.
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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2005, 04:09:01 PM »

While I was initially excited, I'm definately going to wait based on the reviews.  Sounds like an exercise in frustration, so I'll wait until I can get it on the cheap.  

Man, I was really looking forward to an DS RPG though.  frown
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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2005, 04:19:09 PM »

Reviews don't sound all that bad to me (going by text instead of the scores)- seems like the gameplay itself is pretty generic but the story and graphics are getting some praise.  Not a groundbreaking RPG certainly but it should provide a decent fix for handheld RPGs and those who enjoy the Lunar world.
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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2005, 04:25:12 PM »

Quote
But even auto-battle can't help the unbelievably slow pace of the game's battles. At normal speed, it's not uncommon for a battle to last over five minutes, and you'll need to complete hundreds of these battles to get through the entire game. That would be fine if the battles were interesting, but again, there's little for you to do but watch the attack animations and heal if a character gets too low on hit points. The L and R buttons can be held down to double and triple the battle animation speed, respectively. Even at triple speed with auto-battle skipping over the menu choices, the battles are still agonizingly slow and uneventful.

What the holy fuck? Look - I use speed up functions in old NES/SNES RPGs to speed up fights as they're too slow nowadays. This issue should NOT be around in a current gen RPG. Hell - the fact that there IS a speed up function BUILT INTO the game shows that there's something fundementally wrong with the battle engine itself.

Quote
Some of the decisions made by the designers seem only designed to pad out the game, and consequently, are largely irritating, though surmountable...you just get used to Dragon Song's awkwardness. The most immediately noticeable and egregious is that you lose HP by holding B to dash in towns and dungeons; this makes the game slow-paced, as you are forced to walk to conserve health.

Can ANYBODY explain why the hell you lose life while trying to speed up the otherwise boring parts of getting from point A to point B? What possible sense could ANY developer make for this?

I will be waiting for a price drop, if not skipping this game entirely, because of these extremely old-school and utterly backwards game conventions. I lived with them ten years ago. But the times have changed.

Idiots.
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EddieA
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2005, 07:18:59 PM »

Since enemies are visible, you can run past them to avoid fighting them.  The HP loss is supposed to prevent you from doing this and avoiding the fights.  It's a dumb solution, but thankfully, the reviews say that it become irrelevant once you've gone up some levels.
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« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2005, 01:09:02 AM »

Yeesh.  GameSpot gave it a 6.1: linky.

Quote
The most egregious oversight of the battle system is the lack of a targeting system. When you choose to attack you have no control over which enemy your character will attack, which is extremely frustrating because you can't focus damage on a specific enemy. Since there are so many enemies in battle, there are times when you'll want to take out a healer or a particularly powerful fighter. Instead, you have to whittle away at the little guys while the bigger enemies eat you for lunch.


Quote
...the end result is a game that's convoluted where you want it to be simple, and shallow where you wish it had some depth. Even the most devout Lunar loyalists will have a hard time enjoying this game.

Seems like a combination of dull game design, baffling annoyances and a rush to be "the first DS RPG!"

Pass.
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« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2005, 01:27:37 AM »

Wow, sounds awful. Too bad its the first RPG for the system. They need some remakes!!
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weleavefossils
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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2005, 03:16:03 AM »

have you ever played the original lunar's..I don't find it so annoying about the run function, cause I'm sure it only applies in the dungeons anyway, which i often found my self running past the battles, when I should of been fighting them anyway.

I ordered it for the hell of it, and also cause ubisoft has it for 29.99.  Lunar brings back good memories, and I haven't played a good traditional RPG in a long time..I am interested in Lost in Blue..but I'm afraid it will be another DS game that entertains me for a few weeks and I forget about it.

I guess I'll let you know if it really does suck or not.
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« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2005, 04:57:44 PM »

Quote from: "weleavefossils"
I ordered it for the hell of it, and also cause ubisoft has it for 29.99.  Lunar brings back good memories, and I haven't played a good traditional RPG in a long time..

Lunar does bring back lots of good memories. Unfortuantely, I don't want them ruined by an extremely sub-par game.

Based on all of these reviews, and lots of extremely stupid design decisions, this one is a pass to me.
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weleavefossils
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« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2005, 10:15:50 PM »

Quote from: "Destructor"
Quote from: "weleavefossils"
I ordered it for the hell of it, and also cause ubisoft has it for 29.99.  Lunar brings back good memories, and I haven't played a good traditional RPG in a long time..

Lunar does bring back lots of good memories. Unfortuantely, I don't want them ruined by an extremely sub-par game.

Based on all of these reviews, and lots of extremely stupid design decisions, this one is a pass to me.


It's one of those things that you know are probley going to be bad, but you just have to get it. (ffx-2)
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« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2005, 10:27:28 PM »

Quote from: "weleavefossils"
I guess I'll let you know if it really does suck or not.
Atta boy.  Way to take one for the team.
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« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2005, 10:48:02 PM »

Yes, please, I would like to hear about it.  Too bad it's seemingly pretty poorly made, because I would like a good DS RPG right now.  Though, with the library of GBA ones, I can afford to wait a little longer   biggrin
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weleavefossils
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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2005, 03:17:12 PM »

Okay, so this game really has me confused.  Just the way it has been handled it seems so rushed and under-develouped.  Now I have only had a chance to play for about 2 hours but here is my feelings so far.

The graphics look really good for the backgrounds, and of course the stills.  But the Character sprites are sort of poorly done.  But it only gets worse in the actual battles.  I know they probley were trying to be more updated, but they really should of stuck with the original looking character sprites for lunar and not make them look so crappy.


 (It looks even worse when it's moving)

The battles are sort of odd, and I don't know if im missing something, but I have yet to figure out how to select who I want to attack first, but I'll just have to check the manual for that.  The battles don't seem to long like the reviews noted..but I haven't gotten into any boss fights or anything yet.

The loosing HP while running is sort of annoying, I found that if you sort of tap between run and walk you loose just a point here and there, but still..I have a feeling there will be something that allows you to run later on in the game.

The world map is just a menu, but if you leave a town (at-least in the first part) you are in the woods in-between the town and then you can go north,south,east,west..for where ever you want to go.  So I would say so far it's sort of like a travel-able world map.

Other than these flaws, it seems to be going okay for the story..It has been a long time before I've played a RPG that you had to make events happen before you could do something.  I just really wish they just used the original small, but cute sprites and not ones that look nothing like the still characters..


(looks nothing like the person in the battle on the screenshot)


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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2005, 06:19:13 PM »

Quote from: "weleavefossils"

The battles are sort of odd, and I don't know if im missing something, but I have yet to figure out how to select who I want to attack first, but I'll just have to check the manual for that.  


My understanding from the reviews is that you can't select enemies to attack.  This and the losing-HP-while-running thing sealed the 'No Buy' for me.
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2005, 06:23:35 PM »

Quote from: "Gratch"
Quote from: "weleavefossils"

The battles are sort of odd, and I don't know if im missing something, but I have yet to figure out how to select who I want to attack first, but I'll just have to check the manual for that.  


My understanding from the reviews is that you can't select enemies to attack.  This and the losing-HP-while-running thing sealed the 'No Buy' for me.


Just the inability to select targets made this a no-buy for me.  I totally don't mind losing HP while running around at all.  I was all set for this one, until I found out you can't select targets.  How boring combat must be.
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weleavefossils
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« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2005, 06:29:03 PM »

after playing for a few more hours (as well as reading the manual seeing as how there is no on screen tutorial) There are 2 settings for combat..Virtue Mode and Combat Mode.

What that means is..if you enter an area with monsters and you are on Virtue mode, it lets you know there are X amount of monsters, and every time you beat one you have about a minute or so to kill the next until you beat all on the  area.  If you don't kill one in time, the previous one you killed is revived.  Once you beat them all, the area is cleared as well as it restores some of your HP/MP, also access to the special treasure chests. Also Virtue mode is the only mode that allows you to gain experience.  

Now you can either walk around without having to fight anyone in that area, or you can set it to combat mode, which will have the enemies just come back in different spots when you kill them, but you only gain items not experience.  Which is sort of crappy, but it's nice to know if you have to walk back and forth that you don't have to fight over and over again.

I'm actually getting alot into this game now..I'm still annoyed that you cant pick which monster you want to attack, it's only auto.  But so far it really hasn't been a problem just an annoyance.

Hope this maybe helps some people out on if it's worth it or not.  It definitely has a lunar feel to it, and if you can get used to the flaws, it seems so far its a pretty decent RPG, and nice to have on the DS.
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« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2005, 06:30:46 PM »

Right now I only have 2 party members, but from reading the manual it also sucks that you can only have 3 members fighting at once..which is different then the original lunars.
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« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2005, 01:16:33 PM »

There's so many issues and defects of this game according to posts and reviews that I'm glad I skipped this one. And it makes me wonder what the devs were smoking when they came up with some of these gaming conventions.

You can't pick your target in combat? This has been standard for what, a decade now in RPGs?

There's not one, but TWO settings for speeding up combat? This implies you're doing WAY too much between combat rounds. Cut something back.

You can't gain experience AND money/items at the same time? Can anybody tell me another game that used this?
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« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2005, 04:05:54 PM »

Quote from: "Destructor"

You can't gain experience AND money/items at the same time? Can anybody tell me another game that used this?


you actually can't get money in any battle.  You only collect money from delivering packages, which is your job in the beginning.  I'm not sure if that changes at all as the game progresses.  Other than finding money in chests.
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« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2005, 07:05:23 PM »

So I finished this the other day, and I have to say it was a very big disappointment.  I found myself confused when it said "the end" cause I was expecting it to be more.

It definitely had elements of the Lunar series in it, but it was just to watered down.  the battles were to easy, the story was to general, and there was barely any depth to anyone in the game.  

I enjoyed playing it, but I was more excited just to finish it.

I would give it a 5 out of 10.  It's a simple/easy rpg if that is what you want.  but if you want a challenge or a story to keep you interested..back away really fast.
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« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2005, 09:15:50 PM »

I've looked into this and always kinda wanted it, despite the flaws.  But can't find a price-point that I like.

Too bad that they seemingly screwed up some things with it.

But uhh, if you're looking to trade that game . . . I have some stuff to trade . . .?   biggrin
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« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2005, 09:36:37 PM »

If my ebay auction dosen't follow through by Monday, I've got a copy for sale.
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« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2005, 09:54:06 PM »

Quote from: "depward"
I've looked into this and always kinda wanted it, despite the flaws.  But can't find a price-point that I like.

Too bad that they seemingly screwed up some things with it.

But uhh, if you're looking to trade that game . . . I have some stuff to trade . . .?   biggrin

with it being a lunar game still, i feel like i'm obligated to keep it.  I know they were selling it cheaper through the ubi website, but I don't see it on there anymore.  

But if I change my mind, i'll let you know slywink
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