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Author Topic: Lord of the Realm 3 vs. Stronghold 2? Or other game?  (Read 2613 times)
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Chaplin
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« on: January 18, 2006, 02:10:32 PM »

I never really played any of the siege/ counter siege type games, but suddenly I am interested.  Lord of the Realm 3 and Stronghold 2 look like the best and most recent contenders after a walk through my local game store, but I cannot find a demo for either (there is a german demo for SH2 on fileplanet though, sigh).

Anyone have any input on either of these titles?  The reviews seems a bit harse on Stronghold 2.

Thanks for any help.
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2006, 08:10:12 PM »

Play the original Stronghold or Stronghold: Crusader instead of SH2. 2's supposed to be terrible.
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jpinard
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2006, 10:09:28 PM »

Get SH2.  I had Lords of the Realm 3 and the actual gameplay is so bad it's painful.  What a giant disappointment that was.
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Chaplin
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2006, 10:24:31 PM »

I read on a random forum that there is a new patch for SH2 (1.3.1?) that seems to do a lot.  SH1 looks pretty darn old graphically, not sure I could get into it.

What specifically hurts about Lord 3?  What are the drawbacks of SH2 vs 1?  The official reviews I am reading seem to have an obligatory low score just because its not some AAA hype title, but dont really give reasons why they didn't like it.

Lord 3 looks interesting with its overland/ Strategic side mixed with the sieges.  On the other hand, the castle building of SH looks more involved with traps and such.  I know the Rome games does some of these, but I felt it had more of a "Civ" focus and the AI for city fighting felt very weak.

I ran across another game called Besieger that looks very cool in its more fantasy (siege game, but with Dragons, Ogres, etc) focus, but the reviews seem to hit on the pathing AI as being pretty horrible and indicate that the skirmish fights lack the non human units (which kind of kills the point).

Any imput?
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jpinard
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2006, 10:50:08 PM »

Is Stronghold 2 really cheap somewhere?
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Chaplin
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2006, 12:19:18 AM »

I saw it for 29.99 at Wal-Mart yesterday.  Was thinking about getting it or the 19.99 Lord3.  Either way its pretty cheap if its fun...
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corruptrelic
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2006, 08:29:21 AM »

Lord of the Realm 3 shoudn't even be in the same boat as Stronghold 2. LOTR 3 is a terrible game. I played the second one and enjoyed it (which was years ago - by today's standard I don't think I could enjoy it anymore) but the third one.. it's been a long time since I played it but I remember giving it about a week and then trading it into EB. I love strategy games but this one had to be one of the worst.

Stronghold 2 on the other hand, was pretty damn decent if you have a decent computer to run it. It can get pretty laggy at times even on decent systems.
The only thing I played on it was skirmish mode with the computer. The idea of having to protect your king and build up your castle and army was excellent. The graphics looked great as well. I'd do myself and one computer ally vs 4 enemy computer players (all at the highest difficulty setting) and have the battle of my life.
I'd end up getting double teamed by enemy armies and watching them take down my walls with archers on them. I coudn't pump out enough troops to fight off the attackers and thus, retreated with my King and several guards to my ally's Castle (which got pretty big by this time and had a considerable defense) I took my King and 2 of his guards up to the top tower where the computer's King was at and left the last of my soldiers at the front gate to help fight alongside my ally's troops.
In less than twenty minutes we were being crushed by 4 players at the same time. Walls came down and enemy troops poured in, hacking and slashing anything that got in the way of them and our Kings. They made their way into the tower and began fighting their way up the stairs, quickly dispatching the few guards we had remaining.
By the time they got to the top of the tower our Kings and the last surviving guards put up a good fight, taking out a considerable number of the enemy troops as the battle raged on top of the tower.
First I watched as my ally's King fell in battle, which shortly afterwards my 2 guards were killed and I was overwhelmed by enemy units.

I have to say, despite it's short falls, Stronghold 2 was a pretty addicting game. There were mission types as well in which you would have to defend a pre-built castle against a horde of enemy units coming at it.

Stronghold Crusader is similiar, but the graphics are HORRIBLE. For that time maybe they were decent, but for today, they look like Dubya's prewar intelligence. Flawed to the bone.
If you can get over graphics you can pick up Stronghold for $10 or less (also at walmart) but for something that looks good and plays decently, I'd recommend Stronghold 2 especially if you're into skirmish games with the computer. Never even tried it online but I can only imagine it's a step up having humans as your allies and opponents versues just the game AI.
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Chaplin
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2006, 12:54:34 PM »

I have read 2 major complaints about SH2.

1) There is no AI for Multiplayer (ie no humans against AI), which hurts, but I could live without it.

2) Skirmish AI is very weak in KingMaker (basic skirmish) mode.  Howerever from your story and some accounts of post 1.3.1 patch, this may be different now.  Which is kinda a big deal.  If its only going to work in single player, there better be a challenging AI.  Pre-latest-patch people seem to think they could take 7AI and never lose.  I hope this would not be the case.

Ugh, the conflicting accounts... I wish the reviews were not so harsh, it makes me really worried.  Sounds like Lords3 is out though, sounds like a universal heap (which is funny since the reviews are much nicer to that one).
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Vikki
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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2006, 04:32:41 AM »

I agree with Lord Ebonstone.
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Freyland
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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2006, 05:31:15 AM »

Chaplin, in case you missed it, I sent you a PM offer on a Pristine, used SH2 copy.  I really only need one copy now.

Jonathan
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Zekester
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2006, 07:07:30 PM »

If you can find Warrior Kings:Battles cheap somewhere, pick it up.

Not on par with SH2, but better than LotR3.
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Chaplin
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« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2006, 06:18:07 AM »

Freyland, thanks for the offer.  I might take you up on it, but still trying to figure out if I should get SH2 or something else.  Or if I should just wait for the next RTS round (BFME2 and SW Empires at War).  Niether are the siege type game I am looking for, but not getting any kind of resounding response for SH2 or Lord3.
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corruptrelic
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« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2006, 08:22:56 AM »

Have you considered Rome Total War? The sieges in there are impressive. Usually I would do myself and a computer ally defending the Castle (one map is you basically defending the fortress of Rome itself) and having 2-4 enemy computer players (all on hardest setting) be the attackers.
The attackers would bring siege towers to our walls and begin unloading their troops, hacking and slashing away at our archers stationed on the walls until they got to the towers and went downstairs to the courtyard and then the real battles raged on, inside of the city walls in small streets between buildings, etc.
Can get pretty laggy though if you have more than 3 computer plays on the map.

Stronghold 2 isn't that bad of a game. How many RTS games out there actually have good AI? The only RTS I've played where I was truly impressed by the computer AI was an old game called Tzar Burden of the Crown.
Stronghold 2's computer AI is better than age of empires 2 anyday. I only played the game for about a week (I'm in the process of getting a new computer so I've been pc-less for a while now) but your first couple of games the AI seems very good. Of course you should always keep the AI (of any RTS) at the higher settings to get a decent challenge.  
For $20 or less, I'd highly recommend Stronghold 2. It'll be one of the first games I pick up again when I get a new PC that can play it properly.
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corruptrelic
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2006, 06:39:51 AM »

Chaplin - have you picked up Stronghold 2 yet?

Your thread got me hungry for Stronghold 2 again and I gave in and bought it at Walmart for $29.99.
And it's just as fun as I remember it.

You really have to try the Siege mode to appreciate how much fun the Castle sieges can be.
Everything is preset, so there's no gathering resources, building up an army ,etc. you have your pre-built castle, complete with walls and towers (some of them are HUGE) and preset archers, pikemen, swordsmen, and of course your King.
The computer player is smart enough to go after your King when he's the attacker (you can play it either way - defender or attacker - and the computer players the other part) and it can be a lot of fun when you realize you're going to lose but want to put up one last fight and setup your men so that the enemy troops have to really work through a slew of footmen and archers on top of the castle walls before they can claim their grand prize - your King - who gives a real good fight before he goes down.

Played 3 games total so far, 2 sieges and 1 skirmish (Kingmaker). In Kingmaker it was me and a computer player versus 2 enemy computer players and they slaughtered me in no time at all. It's been a long time since I played so I'm still learning the ropes, but having both computers attack me at the same time proved to be too much.
I managed to get my King out of there before they could kill him and sent him to my ally's Castle (which was now complete with full towers and walls) and positioned him next to his King.
He put up a valliant attempt to attack one of our enemies but his men were crushed by the overwhelming force of enemy archers and foot soldiers.
From then on, it was purely a defensive game as both of our enemies launched their attack on his Castle.

Without writing a book, it was a long good battle but they took down a good chunk of the wall and their forces poured in to the outnumbered defenders, slaughtering everything in their path.
They worked their way into the King's tower, up the stairs, and to the roof top where the final battle raged on.
My King and my ally's King were killed by overwhelming odds, and the game ended.

This game has really drawn me into it so much that I almost feel like my King is actually me. The game ends if your King is killed, so you've always got to watch out for him.
He's not some dumb weak weaponless King like in age of empires 2 regicide mode, he's more of a powerful hero who can hold his own as long as he isn't overwhelmed.

Very fun game indeed and all this with just 1.0 version of the game, I just downloaded the patch (which added 3 new AI players, new maps, etc.) and it can only get better.

While it may not be worth an entire $30 to all, in my books, it's one of the most addicting games I've played in a good long while.
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« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2006, 04:13:14 PM »

corruptrelic, can you give me a little more info. on the basic mechanics of SH2.  

i'm in a gaming funk right now and i need something to break it.  i've never been a rts type gamer but i'm really giving it a go and trying to find something i like.  i've been giving Empire Earth 2 alot of playtime but it is just kicking my butt and i'm almost frustrated enough to give up.  i usually only play skirmishes against the computer and your post about SH2 sparked my interest.

how are the gameplay mechanics similar to those of a traditional rts.   do you gather resources and use your economy to build an army?  how does it work?
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corruptrelic
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« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2006, 08:15:57 AM »

In skirmish (and I'm assuming campaign as well, since I never played it) the resource gathering is pretty much the norm of most RTS games, you've got to collect them to build up your armies. You recruit villagers to be certain classes (foot soldiers, archers, etc.) and the higher your happiness rating is, the more villagers that come to your castle and are available.
I've been learning how to play from my computer ally most of the time, watching what he builds and then following along. It's been a long time since I last played, and now that I got it again, it's like I'm starting all over again. (Which actually feels great as this game can be pretty addictive)

I've spent a lot more time in Siege mode though, which there are no resource gathering. It's a pre-built castle with pre-placed armies. Very easy to play.

I tried Empire Earth 2 also but didn't really care for it. Bad graphics, seems like just a patched-up boxed version of the original Empire Earth IMO.

Really depends on what kind of games you like though. If you like the older medieival types, scifi futuristic types, etc.. I prefer medieval games and other than Stronghold 2, the only other RTS game I've become very addicted to if you haven't tried it already is Warcraft III. The AI is pretty decent and you can always adjust the teams if you need help - have you and 3 computer allies up against 2 enemy computer players. If you get in trouble your computer allies will send help to your town. Originally it shipped with no difficulty settings but one of the later patches added them in - easy, normal, and insane.
I usually do myself and an insane computer versues 3 normal computers. We usually always win (double teaming them and attacking at the same spots) and even 2 years since I got it, it can still be a lot of fun for singleplayer skirmishes with the computer.
And of course online on battle.net .. can be even more addictive.
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