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Author Topic: Left 4 Dead Impressions  (Read 12689 times)
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pr0ner
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« Reply #120 on: December 02, 2008, 07:54:20 PM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on December 02, 2008, 07:52:29 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on December 02, 2008, 07:50:37 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on December 02, 2008, 07:39:54 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on December 02, 2008, 07:36:03 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on December 02, 2008, 07:18:17 PM


10th out of 134 titles released this year. 25th all time on the 360.  That's pretty good company.

And citing user ratings, not sure anyone considers those a valid measurement of anything.  

Gears2 has a user rating of 6.6, Little Big Planet a 6.2. COD5 has a 7.6 and a lower score on metacritic than L4D.  

But I'm not the one calling every game I get excited about GOTY.

In fact, I don't think I've called any game GOTY.


And because your support for your baseless claim didn't make any sense whatsoever, you've abandoned it and have deflected to one you didn't even think of.  Well done sir.

So you can deflect by bringing other games rankings into the mix to defend the links you chose, but I can't deflect using an opinion my brother and I talked about before Pete brought it up on this thread?

Whatever.


I accept your concession.




That's no concession.  That's frustration and annoyance.
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« Reply #121 on: December 02, 2008, 07:55:07 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on December 02, 2008, 07:54:20 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on December 02, 2008, 07:52:29 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on December 02, 2008, 07:50:37 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on December 02, 2008, 07:39:54 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on December 02, 2008, 07:36:03 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on December 02, 2008, 07:18:17 PM


10th out of 134 titles released this year. 25th all time on the 360.  That's pretty good company.

And citing user ratings, not sure anyone considers those a valid measurement of anything.  

Gears2 has a user rating of 6.6, Little Big Planet a 6.2. COD5 has a 7.6 and a lower score on metacritic than L4D.  

But I'm not the one calling every game I get excited about GOTY.

In fact, I don't think I've called any game GOTY.


And because your support for your baseless claim didn't make any sense whatsoever, you've abandoned it and have deflected to one you didn't even think of.  Well done sir.

So you can deflect by bringing other games rankings into the mix to defend the links you chose, but I can't deflect using an opinion my brother and I talked about before Pete brought it up on this thread?

Whatever.


I accept your concession.




 That's frustration and annoyance.

We finally agree on something.
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« Reply #122 on: December 02, 2008, 07:59:54 PM »

This game seems like this years 'Portal'. A game some love and feel is a GOTY candidate and others who can't see it. IMO there seems to be a group how just won't accept certain types of games as GOTY. If its not some giant AAA, has a $100 million budget and hasn't been hyped for the last 4 years the game will never qualify in their minds which is sad for gaming IMO. Its why we get so many games now with a 3, 4 ,5 after the title, and not more stuff like L4D or Portal. I don't care if L4D isn't on the same "epic" scale as Fallout 3 or MGs 4...so what. I love co-op gaming and L4D is a game that does that style amazingly, and has set a new standard for it. Plus Valve's usual production values and polish that is equaled by very few others developers and I think it rightly deserves to be a GOTY candidate, or at least recognized in the FPS category.

If there's a 'Left for Dead' defense force sign me up.  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #123 on: December 02, 2008, 08:17:13 PM »

Quote from: Jumangi on December 02, 2008, 07:59:54 PM

IMO there seems to be a group how just won't accept certain types of games as GOTY. If its not some giant AAA, has a $100 million budget and hasn't been hyped for the last 4 years the game will never qualify in their minds which is sad for gaming IMO.

That isn't at all the case, especially here.  But there is a group who just won't accept certain types of games as GOTY if they shouldn't qualify.  Portal refined the FPS formula and presented a new perspective on the genre.  Left4Dead took what was famliar and attempted to refine FPS co-operative play, but many don't think those refinements were revolutionary enough or polished enough to warrant a GOTY nomination.  But few have set forth marketing and funding requirements as preliminary qualifiers.  Just game quality.  And many argue that Left4Dead is good, but not great, and that has nothing to do with "not getting it", it has to do with objectively weighing the game's offerings and seeing that it falls short in a number of areas.
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« Reply #124 on: December 02, 2008, 08:31:36 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on December 02, 2008, 07:47:02 PM

After all, impressions are based upon personal gaming opinions.  There's no need to defend one's opinions over another's.   

And yet you and others seem quick to disregard this and instead imply that these opinions are somehow objectively correct when discussing someone's personal GOTY  (hint: they aren't).  You can't have it both ways. 
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« Reply #125 on: December 02, 2008, 08:33:38 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on December 02, 2008, 08:17:13 PM

Quote from: Jumangi on December 02, 2008, 07:59:54 PM

IMO there seems to be a group how just won't accept certain types of games as GOTY. If its not some giant AAA, has a $100 million budget and hasn't been hyped for the last 4 years the game will never qualify in their minds which is sad for gaming IMO.

But there is a group who just won't accept certain types of games as GOTY if they shouldn't qualify.  Portal refined the FPS formula and presented a new perspective on the genre.  Left4Dead took what was famliar and attempted to refine FPS co-operative play, but many don't think those refinements were revolutionary enough or polished enough to warrant a GOTY nomination.  But few have set forth marketing and funding requirements as preliminary qualifiers.  Just game quality.  And many argue that Left4Dead is good, but not great, and that has nothing to do with "not getting it", it has to do with objectively weighing the game's offerings and seeing that it falls short in a number of areas.

You make it sound like you're on some executive governing counsel determining what can be on the GOTY short list. For every argument on that list there's a counter.  And I'm not sure how you can say your opinion is more objective than others.  It's a ridiculous argument.  

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« Reply #126 on: December 02, 2008, 08:44:21 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on December 02, 2008, 08:31:36 PM

Quote from: PeteRock on December 02, 2008, 07:47:02 PM

After all, impressions are based upon personal gaming opinions.  There's no need to defend one's opinions over another's.   

And yet you and others seem quick to disregard this and instead imply that these opinions are somehow objectively correct when discussing someone's personal GOTY  (hint: they aren't).  You can't have it both ways. 

Disregard?  No, disagree.  I'm not looking to "have it both ways."  But, when weighing how often Sensuous is quick to slap the "GOTY" moniker on anything he enjoys, I'm a bit less likely to jump onto the free love bandwagon before doing a bit more digging on a game's level of quality.

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on December 02, 2008, 08:33:38 PM

You make it sound like you're on some executive governing counsel determining what can be on the GOTY short list. For every argument on that list there's a counter.  And I'm not sure how you can say your opinion is more objective than others.  It's a ridiculous argument.  

As opposed to "you just don't get it" as sufficient argument against the GOTY dissent?  Please.  I'm just far less cavalier with where I apply my "GOTY" sticker.   
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« Reply #127 on: December 02, 2008, 08:50:50 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on December 02, 2008, 08:44:21 PM

But, when weighing how often Sensuous is quick to slap the "GOTY" moniker on anything he enjoys, I'm a bit less likely to jump onto the free love bandwagon before doing a bit more digging on a game's level of quality.

Again, 5 games total in a year is not a lot. Not sure how you say that it is, but whatever.  If you haven't played 5 games this entire year that you think are good enough to be GOTYs, I'd say you're playing the wrong games and wasting your time.

Quote
As opposed to "you just don't get it" as sufficient argument against the GOTY dissent?  Please. 

I don't recall saying anything of the kind.

Quote
I'm just far less cavalier with where I apply my "GOTY" sticker.   


Well, I guess it's easier not to say anything is GOTY when you spend most of your time catching up on games from last year... icon_wink  How's Mass Effect coming btw?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2008, 08:52:59 PM by SensuousLettuce » Logged
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« Reply #128 on: December 02, 2008, 08:56:59 PM »

Okay this derail stops now. No more on the particular topic of Sensuous Lettuce vs Pete Rock vs Proner or this thread gets locked. 
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« Reply #129 on: December 03, 2008, 01:46:35 PM »

Spore sucked.
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« Reply #130 on: December 03, 2008, 02:31:00 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on December 03, 2008, 01:46:35 PM

Spore sucked.

and L4D blows  ninja

I'm not sure, but I think GoW2 does both.  icon_twisted
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« Reply #131 on: December 03, 2008, 02:48:47 PM »

I saw a link of the top 10 games played on Xbox Live during the last month.  Surprisingly Halo 3  was back on top.  Followed by Gears 2 and Cod 5.  I think L4D was 8th.  Hopefully L4D doesn't suffer the same fate as Team Fortess 2 on the 360. 
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« Reply #132 on: December 03, 2008, 02:57:41 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on December 03, 2008, 02:48:47 PM

I saw a link of the top 10 games played on Xbox Live during the last month.  Surprisingly Halo 3  was back on top.  Followed by Gears 2 and Cod 5.  I think L4D was 8th.  Hopefully L4D doesn't suffer the same fate as Team Fortess 2 on the 360. 

7th, but yeah.  Of course, it was released a little later than the other games, so that could be a factor.
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« Reply #133 on: December 03, 2008, 03:30:53 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on December 03, 2008, 02:48:47 PM

I saw a link of the top 10 games played on Xbox Live during the last month.  Surprisingly Halo 3  was back on top.  Followed by Gears 2 and Cod 5.  I think L4D was 8th.  Hopefully L4D doesn't suffer the same fate as Team Fortess 2 on the 360. 

Where's that list? Linky please.
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« Reply #134 on: December 03, 2008, 03:35:56 PM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on December 03, 2008, 03:30:53 PM


Where's that list? Linky please.

http://majornelson.com/archive/2008/12/02/live-activity-for-week-of-november-24th.aspx
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« Reply #135 on: December 03, 2008, 03:39:52 PM »

Thanks.

Neat. Top 10! slywink.

I'm pretty sure I'll be playing it for a while. It's just too fun.
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« Reply #136 on: December 03, 2008, 03:56:17 PM »

How is Fallout in the top 10? What's considered live activity?
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« Reply #137 on: December 03, 2008, 03:57:18 PM »

Playing while logged into XBL
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« Reply #138 on: December 03, 2008, 04:31:50 PM »

You hockey fans need to get cracking.  You let FIFA make the top 10.  I'm very disappointed. 

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« Reply #139 on: December 04, 2008, 03:25:45 AM »

Played it with 4 randoms tonight and had another wonderful time.

Then I listened to the first level of the commentary and continue to be amazed at Valve's thought processes.

Was gonna finally try some versus, but that'll have to wait for another night.

Brilliant game confirmed.

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« Reply #140 on: December 04, 2008, 03:43:01 AM »

Trying to put together players for Friday night.
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« Reply #141 on: December 05, 2008, 06:00:01 AM »

Got into another great room tonight.

The more I play it, the more I like it.
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« Reply #142 on: December 05, 2008, 03:26:50 PM »

I couldn't find the demo on this  yesterday.  I'll have to look again.

MP centric games always scare me though.  They always seem to die fast.
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« Reply #143 on: December 05, 2008, 04:20:09 PM »

It's funny. I actually think they took the demo down.

I was gonna re-download it to play with a friend, but it was gone.


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« Reply #144 on: December 05, 2008, 04:28:05 PM »

From what I recall, they actually did take the demo down after the game hit retail.  icon_neutral
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« Reply #145 on: December 07, 2008, 01:57:04 PM »

I had a great time with this last night.  IkeV and I tried about 5 more times after you left, SL.  The second to last time, I was running for the helicopter when a hunter took me down.  The last time, I made it, with time to spare.  IkeV and the bots were alive, but unable to get to the chopper in time.

I was wondering if the (dynamic?) difficulty was higher when SL was with us, since he's played the game more.  Anyhow, the stats at the end were great....  far better than my 17% accuracy rating.  biggrin  I had a blast and I look forward to playing again.  Great game.
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« Reply #146 on: December 07, 2008, 02:26:12 PM »

Nah, the difficulty doesn't take into account the player skill.

I just had a few Versus games where the AI director must have gotten dumped by his AI girlfriend or something, because we were getting tanks areas out of the safe house, tons of random zombie hordes on top of boomer vomit.

I also had a game where a smoker pulled me out of the chopper to my death just before it took off.

But, I also had another game on Blood Harvest where as a smoker I managed to pull someone out of the final APC just before all the survivors got in, then as they rushed out to save him I became the tank.  The survivors scattered except for one in the APC, I charged into it, killed the guy in the APC, another out front, and my teammates finished off the other survivors with help from the horde.  Greatest upset I've seen yet.
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« Reply #147 on: December 08, 2008, 12:51:47 AM »

Quote from: Clay on December 07, 2008, 01:57:04 PM

I had a great time with this last night.  IkeV and I tried about 5 more times after you left, SL.  The second to last time, I was running for the helicopter when a hunter took me down.  The last time, I made it, with time to spare.  IkeV and the bots were alive, but unable to get to the chopper in time.

I was wondering if the (dynamic?) difficulty was higher when SL was with us, since he's played the game more.  Anyhow, the stats at the end were great....  far better than my 17% accuracy rating.  biggrin  I had a blast and I look forward to playing again.  Great game.

Congratulations!

I cannot believe how hard we struggled...I've never been part of a crew that died so many times in an area- in fact I've only seen a whole team get killed off one time previously whena tank threw a chunk of concrete and it got us all.

To die repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly, was unbelievable and frustrating.

Congrats again!
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« Reply #148 on: December 08, 2008, 01:57:28 PM »

I will say it again. This game must draw higher caliber players.  I was in a game again last night with 3 randoms and had a hoot and in all the matches I've played, there has not been one moron player. Obviously, the sample size is smaller than say Halo or COD, but every single person for the most part has been a delight to play with.

In any event, I wanted to see if No Mercy was just that hard or if we just sucked the other night.  It appears to be mostly the latter.

This was only the second 3rd time (other than a miracle concrete chucking by a Tank on the airport level) that I've been on a team that failed the last mission.  However, it wasn't epic fail like with Ike and Damage- though we did have a 4th the whole time so that helped. Took us 3 times to get through the final mission.

I was one of two survivors.

I love this game.
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« Reply #149 on: December 08, 2008, 03:52:18 PM »

Kind of makes sense that there is less dipshits playing this game since it's not straight up deathmatch when 'SPLOITZ lead to higher rankings etc.  I'm sure plenty of internet dickwads picked this up and once they saw it was COOP or nothing they sold it back and picked up Army of Two.
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« Reply #150 on: December 08, 2008, 06:32:18 PM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on December 08, 2008, 01:57:28 PM

I will say it again. This game must draw higher caliber players.  I was in a game again last night with 3 randoms and had a hoot and in all the matches I've played, there has not been one moron player. Obviously, the sample size is smaller than say Halo or COD, but every single person for the most part has been a delight to play with.

Tell that to the dickface on my team who shot me repeatedly until I was dead, revived me, and then shot me again.
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« Reply #151 on: December 08, 2008, 06:49:41 PM »

Quote from: msteelers on December 08, 2008, 06:32:18 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on December 08, 2008, 01:57:28 PM

I will say it again. This game must draw higher caliber players.  I was in a game again last night with 3 randoms and had a hoot and in all the matches I've played, there has not been one moron player. Obviously, the sample size is smaller than say Halo or COD, but every single person for the most part has been a delight to play with.

Tell that to the jerkface on my team who shot me repeatedly until I was dead, revived me, and then shot me again.

Was it Ike? If so, he's just not very good at games.  Tongue
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« Reply #152 on: December 08, 2008, 07:29:27 PM »

is it not possible to join a friend's game when it hits the finale?  i wanted to get in with your game the other night SL, but despite having an opening, it wouldn't let me.  i ended up playing through the last 3 parts of blood harvest with some strangers.  good group that stuck together through the end and we did very well, despite having a rather bad turn of luck after radioing for help.  we finally just made the run after the apc showed up and all got out in one piece. 
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« Reply #153 on: December 08, 2008, 10:48:44 PM »

I don't think you can join a game in the finale, no...
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« Reply #154 on: December 10, 2008, 01:47:53 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on November 29, 2008, 06:53:37 PM


My biggest problem was I just didn't feel any motivation or attachment to what was going on in the game.  There just wasn't anything to draw me in.  No storyline, no interesting characters, as we fought our way through wave after wave of zombies, there just seemed to be no point, no motivation.  Nothing to make me want to see what happens next.  I really wanted to like the game, and I was excited to play co-op with Knightshade.  But as we played I just lost interest and got bored.  While the gameplay may be tense and exciting, that's all there seemed to be to the game.  Fighting through zombies to survive.  But why?  I couldn't find a reason, and because there was no attachment I just didn't find any reason to continue.  I was amazingly underwhelmed and terribly disappointed with how little there was to the game. 

I've played through many, many shooters.  And this one just had no personality, nothing interesting to set it apart from any other generic shooter.  I can get the same experience from a quick add-on to COD:W@W.

Pete I had a similar reaction to this game when i first loaded it up and played the single player game. I just didn't get it. It was disappointing to me that there are only about 5 weapons to choose from, and only 4 story paths. But after playing it with Sensuous and some of his friends, I had an absolute blast. The special zombies are well thought out (when you're vomited on by the Boomer the stench attracts the horde of zombies towards you...BRILLIANT!, when the smoker gets you with his tongue and slowly pulls you in...BRILLIANT!) and there are subtle audio cues (and some not so subtle [Tank]) to let you know which ones are lurking (or barreling towards you [Tank]). I do wish there were more variety, but as it stands, it's a lot of fun to play.

Another very nice aspect to the game, and one that adds much to the replay value considering there are only 4 scenarios, is that every time you play each scenario the enemies come from different places. i guess my point is, after playing it for 30 minutes I felt a lot like you did...very disappointed and somewhat bored. But after playing with 3 friends, the game gets very addictive and starts to become a lot more fun.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 01:50:10 PM by BEEFHAMMA » Logged
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« Reply #155 on: December 10, 2008, 03:45:52 PM »

Quote from: BEEFHAMMA on December 10, 2008, 01:47:53 PM

Quote from: PeteRock on November 29, 2008, 06:53:37 PM


My biggest problem was I just didn't feel any motivation or attachment to what was going on in the game.  There just wasn't anything to draw me in.  No storyline, no interesting characters, as we fought our way through wave after wave of zombies, there just seemed to be no point, no motivation.  Nothing to make me want to see what happens next.  I really wanted to like the game, and I was excited to play co-op with Knightshade.  But as we played I just lost interest and got bored.  While the gameplay may be tense and exciting, that's all there seemed to be to the game.  Fighting through zombies to survive.  But why?  I couldn't find a reason, and because there was no attachment I just didn't find any reason to continue.  I was amazingly underwhelmed and terribly disappointed with how little there was to the game. 

I've played through many, many shooters.  And this one just had no personality, nothing interesting to set it apart from any other generic shooter.  I can get the same experience from a quick add-on to COD:W@W.

Pete I had a similar reaction to this game when i first loaded it up and played the single player game. I just didn't get it. It was disappointing to me that there are only about 5 weapons to choose from, and only 4 story paths. But after playing it with Sensuous and some of his friends, I had an absolute blast. The special zombies are well thought out (when you're vomited on by the Boomer the stench attracts the horde of zombies towards you...BRILLIANT!, when the smoker gets you with his tongue and slowly pulls you in...BRILLIANT!) and there are subtle audio cues (and some not so subtle [Tank]) to let you know which ones are lurking (or barreling towards you [Tank]). I do wish there were more variety, but as it stands, it's a lot of fun to play.

Another very nice aspect to the game, and one that adds much to the replay value considering there are only 4 scenarios, is that every time you play each scenario the enemies come from different places. i guess my point is, after playing it for 30 minutes I felt a lot like you did...very disappointed and somewhat bored. But after playing with 3 friends, the game gets very addictive and starts to become a lot more fun.

Glad you're enjoying it.  I didn't, even after a few hours of play.  It's just not my thing.  So you opted for Left 4 Dead in place of World at War?  Boooooooooo.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 04:10:44 PM by PeteRock » Logged

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« Reply #156 on: December 11, 2008, 12:38:34 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on December 10, 2008, 03:45:52 PM

Glad you're enjoying it.  I didn't, even after a few hours of play.  It's just not my thing.  So you opted for Left 4 Dead in place of World at War?  Boooooooooo.

I'm just a little tired of the Call of Duty scene. I'm sure i'll get it eventually though.
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« Reply #157 on: December 11, 2008, 01:29:10 PM »

Yahtzee has his review up on Zero Punctuation.  He's pretty spot on (and overall very positive):

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/459-Left-4-Dead
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That's like blaming owls because I suck at making analogies.
ATB
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« Reply #158 on: December 11, 2008, 02:14:14 PM »

Check out the MP forum thread as we might be able to coordinate all L4D gters into an awesome Versus match...
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denoginizer
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« Reply #159 on: December 11, 2008, 02:46:47 PM »

Question:

To get the achievemts for finishing each campaign do you have to play through the entire campaign in one sitting?  My wife and I have played through the 1st 4 stages of all 4 campaigns but died durning the finales.  Can we just start with the finales to get the achievement or do we have to play through the whole campaign again?
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