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Author Topic: KOTOR 3 News?  (Read 15928 times)
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Starshifter
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« on: May 11, 2006, 05:30:50 PM »

I just had to start a topic on this.

Bring me some news (good or bad) Ron please!  My soul needs to rest one way or the other.

I'm starting to really, really get nervous here.

 tear
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Starshifter
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2006, 06:41:03 PM »

I guess all is lost.  We would have heard something by now.

 :cry:  

And to all the decision makers at LucasArts & Obsidian & Bioware:  finger
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2006, 06:52:39 PM »

I really think that Lucasarts is completely unable to find a quality RPG house willing to take it on.  Quality Western RPG houses are pretty much down to Bioware, Obsidian, and Bethesda (at least in North America) so it looks like they are SOL for the moment unless they want to contract out to Eastern Europe.  I think Obsidian has mentioned that they would consider it but not until they clear some room on their plate (which includes an unannounced RPG for Sega as well as NWN 2) and Bioware not only seems disinterested but seems to have a pretty full plate too.
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2006, 07:17:36 PM »

You know, if Bethesda did a Star Wars rpg in the vein of the Elder Scrolls games, it would be sorta like Star Wars Galaxies, only it might actually be, you know... good.

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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2006, 09:46:08 PM »

Quote from: "Farscry"
You know, if Bethesda did a Star Wars rpg in the vein of the Elder Scrolls games, it would be sorta like Star Wars Galaxies, only it might actually be, you know... good.

biggrin


I'd probably buy it in a heartbeat.  Or a Fable style game with Star Wars stuff.  I know in KOTOR you could choose between good and evil, but I think it would be cool in a more action RPG type game.   I'm still looking for a Star Wars game that makes me feel like I am IN Star Wars.  KOTOR came close.
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2006, 09:47:08 PM »

I think Bioware is probably seeing it makes good economic sense to develop their own brands, rather than someone else's.  Especially now that they have a great deal of notoriety as a quality game developer.

No offense to anyone, but I'm not a big Bethesda fan.  You would think after over 10 years they could figure out a way to prevent people from falling through corners.  I never fell outside a map in Quake, so I know it's attainable.

If LucasArts had any brains, they would have their own in-house people doing this.  Yes, outside studios have and can do a great job, but eventually the economics will pull those companies away.
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2006, 02:04:21 AM »

Quote from: "unbreakable"
If LucasArts had any brains, they would have their own in-house people doing this.  Yes, outside studios have and can do a great job, but eventually the economics will pull those companies away.


That was the original plan for KOTOR 3 but it was scrapped when they went through a major reorganization just a few months before KOTOR 2 released.

And honestly, Lucasarts just doesn't have the in house talent for something like this right now.
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2006, 03:42:27 AM »

After the ending of KOTOR 2 I really don't feel the need to play another KOTOR game.
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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2006, 04:07:37 AM »

Quote from: "Scoop20906"
After the ending of KOTOR 2 I really don't feel the need to play another KOTOR game.

Blasphemy!!!  I spit at thee!  :evil:  Tongue

That whole lousy ending thing was blown way out of proportion.

Please, let me mourn in peace. frown
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2006, 11:00:43 AM »

Quote from: "Scoop20906"
After the ending of KOTOR 2 I really don't feel the need to play another KOTOR game.


agreed.
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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2006, 01:20:25 PM »

Did anyone here ever wonder that perhaps all the bitching and whining about the end of KOTOR 2, so prevalent over the Interent at the games height, that just perhaps LucasArts/Obsidian or some of the developers heard about it and it influenced their decision not to do another???

We could all be shooting our own feet when we bitch too loudly and not just for the KOTOR series but other games as well.  This has disturbed me for quite some time.  I know that if I were a developer and the majority of the Internet community panned my game brutally I would not be inspired to go ahead and do another.

Yes, I'm angry.  Think before you shout.

 frown
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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2006, 02:11:13 PM »

No.

The outcry is over the poor quality of the endgame, the developer and the publisher are both aware of that.  The outcry only serves to point out to the developer and publisher that the public is aware of it too, and that'll affect their buying decision later.

If that means KOTOR3 is put off because of a unwillingness to dedicate the time and money to make a proper game, then so be it.  Sometimes, it's just not enough to have the game made, it needs to be made well.  I mean, look at all of Uwe Boll's movies.  Sure, those game movies were made, but they're crap not worth watching.

I think all the outcry is justified.  If you really think before you shout, then you'll realize that yes, we got a game that was cut to shreds at the end.  We should be unhappy over it.

Or should we just roll over and take it every time a company sells us broken merchandise?

Kotor1 sold like mad, KOTOR2 I'm unaware of the sales.  I think it sold well initially, but then peterred out at word spread.  There's a lot of things they could do with KOTOR3 in terms of gameplay and story that would combine the market appeal of KOTOR1 and the depth of KOTOR2, and it would probably sell great so long as the game was of quality.
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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2006, 02:24:43 PM »

Starshifter, I feel your pain and I wasn't trying to be glib (Tom Cruise taught me the error of my ways), but I LOVED KOTOR 1. It was huge and has replayability and great characters. It had problems but they were so easy to overlook because the plot and characters were so great. And all the spoken dialogue. This game set that trend.

When KOTOR 2 came out I bought it first day. First half of the game was great but the ending ... it killed my interest in the game. Plus It seemed to like a few of the main companions and the main character weren't very interesting to me either. But the big baddie turned out to be a nobody that was easy to kill. What a hack job the ending was. I still can't understand how you can ship that ending?

But even with the bad ending, that storyline is dead to me. If they came back with a new one, they need to ditch that whole I dont know who I am rountine they milked for a second time and do something different. Could I be something other than Jedi this time PLEASE? How about a smuggler? Or freighter pilot? A Replublic commander who is fighting a revolt? They need to shake up this franchise to get me interested again. If I see Jedis again, Im not interested.

I guess this is all moot because they aren't going to make the game anytime soon if ever.  :roll:
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2006, 03:27:11 PM »

Quote from: "Starshifter"
Did anyone here ever wonder that perhaps all the bitching and whining about the end of KOTOR 2, so prevalent over the Interent at the games height, that just perhaps LucasArts/Obsidian or some of the developers heard about it and it influenced their decision not to do another???

We could all be shooting our own feet when we bitch too loudly and not just for the KOTOR series but other games as well.  This has disturbed me for quite some time.  I know that if I were a developer and the majority of the Internet community panned my game brutally I would not be inspired to go ahead and do another.

Yes, I'm angry.  Think before you shout.

 frown


Sorry but I call it like I see it.  The ending to KOTOR 2 was complete and utter bullshit.  I would rather have no KOTOR 3 than a butchered one that gets pushed out the door just for the sake of having it.
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« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2006, 03:09:48 AM »

Quote from: "Starshifter"
Did anyone here ever wonder that perhaps all the bitching and whining about the end of KOTOR 2, so prevalent over the Interent at the games height, that just perhaps LucasArts/Obsidian or some of the developers heard about it and it influenced their decision not to do another???


Lucsarts it's very aware of the crap ending- they forced Obsidian to release the game ahead of schedule- it was originally planned for Spring '05 but Lucasarts wanted Holidays so a full quarter was shaved off an already relatively abbreviated production schedule.  I'm sure Obsidan was somewhat complicit in this too.  Both entities knew the ending wasn't complete- they didn't need pissed off gamers to tell them that.  

But the reception to the game and the ending really doesn't matter- what does is the bottom line and KOTOR 2 was a sizable hit.  It didn't sell the numbers that KOTOR 1 did but it did very well despite a relative lack of publicity and being released in the wake of a holiday season that saw Halo 2 and GTA:SA among others.  

So at a minimum Lucasarts got the message that KOTOR is a very valuable property.  Personally, barring Bioware or Obsidian coming back on board, my gut tells me that when we get it, it will have gone through a substantial change with radically different gameplay and probably a story not connected in the slightest to the first two games.
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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2006, 04:44:38 AM »

Hey Starshifter, check out the concept art right here. slywink
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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2006, 07:27:14 PM »

KOTOR 2 was a masterpiece.  I didn't notice the lack of ending until people complained about it.  In retrospect, I can see how it tarnishes the game, but what's of paramount importance to me is that as I played through that game I was mesmerized.  It still ranks as my #1 XBOX game of all time.  KOTOR is #2.

I don't know that Pt 3 would be enough to make me get a 360, but I'd definitely like to play it and see Obsidian do the crafting.
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2006, 05:59:05 AM »

From what I've seen, KOTOR 3 might be known as Mass Effect...check out my preview for the details.  I instantly had a Kotor-type feeling when I checked it out...
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« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2006, 12:06:51 PM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
From what I've seen, KOTOR 3 might be known as Mass Effect...check out my preview for the details.  I instantly had a Kotor-type feeling when I checked it out...


I seem to recall that Mass Effect has the same lead designer as KOTOR, but I could be wrong about that.
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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2006, 12:24:40 PM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
Hey Starshifter, check out the concept art right here. slywink

Thanks WBS.  I think those shots (very cool by the way) may be from the rumored new Darth Vader game though.

ATB - Right on!  For those that couldn't get pass the ending it is their loss.  I too still have the lasting memories of the masterpieces that are KOTOR 1 & 2.
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« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2006, 02:00:46 PM »

Quote from: "Starshifter"
Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
Hey Starshifter, check out the concept art right here. slywink

Thanks WBS.  I think those shots (very cool by the way) may be from the rumored new Darth Vader game though.

ATB - Right on!  For those that couldn't get pass the ending it is their loss.  I too still have the lasting memories of the masterpieces that are KOTOR 1 & 2.


Get past the ending... are you kidding me.. what ending.  There was no ending to get past.  There were numerous gaping holes in the story, many dropped plot lines.  I loved the first 70% of the game, but it just plain fell apart at the end.  My frustration is because the game COULD have been so much more.  What could have ended as a great experience turned into a mediocre experience.
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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2006, 02:55:06 PM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
From what I've seen, KOTOR 3 might be known as Mass Effect...check out my preview for the details.  I instantly had a Kotor-type feeling when I checked it out...


Glad I wasn't the only one who had that same vibe. It felt like Deus Ex crossed with KOTOR with a little Fifth Element on the side as strange as that sounds.
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« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2006, 02:56:45 PM »

Quote from: "Arkon"
Quote from: "Starshifter"
Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
Hey Starshifter, check out the concept art right here. slywink

Thanks WBS.  I think those shots (very cool by the way) may be from the rumored new Darth Vader game though.

ATB - Right on!  For those that couldn't get pass the ending it is their loss.  I too still have the lasting memories of the masterpieces that are KOTOR 1 & 2.


Get past the ending... are you kidding me.. what ending.  There was no ending to get past.  There were numerous gaping holes in the story, many dropped plot lines.  I loved the first 70% of the game, but it just plain fell apart at the end.  My frustration is because the game COULD have been so much more.  What could have ended as a great experience turned into a mediocre experience.

Well, for one thing I view the ending to KOTOR 2 as a cliffhanger, sort of how Empire Strikes Back ended as a cliffhanger.  In that respect, it was a perfectly fine ending in my brain - flying off in the Ebon Hawk into the void wondering how many things would be resolved.  Perfect!

Secondly, I was a purely good Jedi and never took any of the questionable characters in my party (i.e., HK-47, G0T0 etc.).  Therefore, the whole story element missing about the HK-47 facility and the interaction between G0T0 and HK meant absolutely nothing to me and I couldn't care less.  So, I guess if you were following the Dark Side you would have probably had several questions you wanted answered.  I could understand that.
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« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2006, 02:59:24 PM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
From what I've seen, KOTOR 3 might be known as Mass Effect...check out my preview for the details.  I instantly had a Kotor-type feeling when I checked it out...


Glad I wasn't the only one who had that same vibe. It felt like Deus Ex crossed with KOTOR with a little Fifth Element on the side as strange as that sounds.

Yes, I too am looking forward eagerly to Mass Effect.  But then again, it is not KOTOR 3.  And I need KOTOR 3 because my continuing character storyline needs to be fulfilled!  Lynrya is waiting!!!  biggrin
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« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2006, 03:09:29 PM »

SS, you know what? I loved KOTOR. KOTOR2 (initially) felt SO good. If it were bland all the way through I wouldn't bitch about it. I'd pan the game and move on.

But no, they serve up a delicious triple chocolate birthday cake you've waited all year for. As you start out, you love it, it's so creamy and much better than you remembered last year's cake to be. It has more flavor and far more moist. It's not just giving you light and dark chocolate; no, there's a juxtaposition of the tartness of dark and the smoothness of light that piques your interest with the delicate balance.

Half-way through you start finding bits of peanuts. You start wondering why, but it's a nagging doubt. I mean, peanuts and chocolate go together, right? As you proceed, the flavor starts losing it's sweetness, gradually at first.

Then you find a piece of corn, and you think the baker wasn't working in a clean environment. You think, well, THAT was odd. You go to take another bite and find the cake has gotten thicker and chewier. You plod on, thinking that the next birthday, you'll want this layer fixed.

The next layer is up. But wait? Where are all those light fluffy and moist bubbles? This looks like it's a fudge layer. Oh well, here goes... :: hurck! :: this doesn't taste like fudge... this tastes like ... hrm, feces? The corn, oh dear god the peanuts!!! OH MY GOD!! I, like a fool, have been devouring a steaming turd!

Your cake is 60 bux, and you're going to either not finish it, or fight the gag reflex and hope this is a mistake. No, my faithful child; the rest of the cake is sitting on the same "fertile" soil. There are some moments where you hit pockets of cake, but mostly it's just bubbles of uncooked baking powder with flour and cocoa.

That's how quick the game turned. Some of the plot holes were big enough to fly a star destroyer through. The crashed ship flying away? Hello? The character plotlines that either stalled or jumped track for no apparent reason? Maybe playing the bad side didn't hit all of the plot holes but the good side was a logical train-wreck. Cripes, the last conversation thread with the villian was abhorrent.

Give me a bad game, and I'll move on. Sucker me into 80hours of what ends up being trudging through a broken game and I'm going to take that personally.

I'm one of those people who respect the phrase "when it's done". Prey may be fun, Duke Nukem could actually kick ass, and Team Fortress 2 might rock my world. I can wait; there are plenty of games out there to enjoy in the meantime.

Hell, Halo 2's ending didn't bother me. It's the middle-piece. There was no closure with Empire strikes back.  I'm don't need hollywood (or video games) to tuck me in and lay happy endings at my feet. I'm a big boy now, I can enjoy diverse stories like the movie "Match Point" and not detest the ending for not being traditionally "happily ever after" finish that we've come to expect.

KOTOR3? I don't want to see that until it's done. Even then, I'm not picking it up Day1; I might pick it up Day20-30 after I've heard that the train actually has a caboose. And no corn.
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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2006, 03:58:26 PM »

Quote from: "Starshifter"
Well, for one thing I view the ending to KOTOR 2 as a cliffhanger, sort of how Empire Strikes Back ended as a cliffhanger.  


So what are you going to do when KOTOR 3 is finally announced but it isn't Obsidian developing and the story doesn't pick up from KOTOR 2 at all?
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« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2006, 07:01:06 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Starshifter"
Well, for one thing I view the ending to KOTOR 2 as a cliffhanger, sort of how Empire Strikes Back ended as a cliffhanger.  


So what are you going to do when KOTOR 3 is finally announced but it isn't Obsidian developing and the story doesn't pick up from KOTOR 2 at all?

How do I explain this.  My characters created for KOTOR 1 & 2 (in my mind) are brothers:  one being a Jedi Sentinel (KOTOR 1) and one a Jedi Counselor (KOTOR 2).  Both experiencing their own adventures, but not truly knowing that each existed.  Now, unbeknownest to them they have a sister (KOTOR 3) who will be a Jedi Guardian-type.  Whether the story continues from KOTOR 2 or not is immaterial.  In my mind, the three siblings exist for me to experience their adventures in the Star Wars universe.  If KOTOR 3 has nothing to do with the second one than my character from KOTOR 2 will be forever unique in the entire scheme of things.  Confusing huh?

Just ask ATB.  I think he understands me the most in how I approach and play these games.  Actually, I don't play these games - I live them.  When I'm playing a KOTOR game I'm not sitting on that couch playing but I'm the Jedi on screen, renewing incredible memories of when I first enjoyed the Star Wars films as a kid and hoping one day to play a game as a Jedi.

That is the best I can do to explain my passion for this series.
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« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2006, 07:03:23 PM »

Yikes Purge, you put some incredible thought into that analogy.  You have succeeded in making me have a craving for vanilla frosted yellow cake!  :wink:  Tongue
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« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2006, 10:16:57 PM »

Quote from: "Starshifter"
Yikes Purge, you put some incredible thought into that analogy.  You have succeeded in making me have a craving for vanilla frosted yellow cake!  :wink:  Tongue


Just make sure that yellow cake isn't from Nigeria (or the diet kind from Iraq).

BTW- I also feel that the outrage over KOTOR2's ending is way overblown.  IMO, the problem was not some huge disaster but rather some loose ends which could have been handled better.  The whole 'epilogue' part detailing the future of each companion was a lot like the ending of NWN: Hordes of the Underdark.

The game was good, I had fun, I don't see the hate.  If someone does, that is truly a shame.
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« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2006, 12:45:14 PM »

I loved both games to varing degrees and I do hope they put out another one.  It is a very good setting I think since Lucas hasn't pissed all over it (I am sure in KoToR 3 he will demand that C3P0 makes an appearance)

However I am still annoyed at the huge gaps in KOTOR2.  I wanted to know what happened to the remote, the wookie, etc.  

For me it was like reading a mystery and then having the end botched.  No matter how good the writing up to that point, it still spoils the experience.
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« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2006, 03:39:10 PM »

Quote from: "Starshifter"
How do I explain this.  My characters created for KOTOR 1 & 2 (in my mind) are brothers:  one being a Jedi Sentinel (KOTOR 1) and one a Jedi Counselor (KOTOR 2).  Both experiencing their own adventures, but not truly knowing that each existed.  Now, unbeknownest to them they have a sister (KOTOR 3) who will be a Jedi Guardian-type.  Whether the story continues from KOTOR 2 or not is immaterial.  In my mind, the three siblings exist for me to experience their adventures in the Star Wars universe.  If KOTOR 3 has nothing to do with the second one than my character from KOTOR 2 will be forever unique in the entire scheme of things.  Confusing huh?


But what does any of that have to do with justifying KOTOR 2's ending as a cliffhanger like Empire Strikes Back?  People are pissed because KOTOR 2's incomplete ending doesn't have any sort of guaranteed conclusion.  Look at the reaction to Halo 2's ending- most found it very unsatisfying but it's at least mitigated by the fact that Halo 3 was a foregone conclusion.  The same doesn't hold for KOTOR 2.  The only way most people will get closure from the game is read the stuff posted on various websites discovered in the data files on the disc.  

FWIW, I thought KOTOR 2 overall was a better game than the first and the ending didn't cause me to hate the rest of the game.  But it did hurt my overall enjoyment of the game.
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« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2006, 05:27:29 PM »

I didn't really view it as a cliffhanger ending.  I just read into it that there were greater and far more dangerous things 'out there' than the Sith, and both Revan and the player in KOTOR2 went to meet that threat.  It really isn't much different a message than that presented by Frank Herbert's last two Dune novels (Heretics of Dune and Dune: Chapterhouse, which were, IMO, the best Dune novels since the original).
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« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2006, 06:47:18 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
People are pissed because KOTOR 2's incomplete ending doesn't have any sort of guaranteed conclusion.  Look at the reaction to Halo 2's ending- most found it very unsatisfying but it's at least mitigated by the fact that Halo 3 was a foregone conclusion.


Cliffhanger ending? Nononono.... gaping holes in logical progression. NPC's odd behaviour that had either no motivation or, worse yet, "forgetting" conversations you had.

Or a crashed and mutilated ship flying away. It's been so long since I've played it, but I can tell you cliffhangers don't bother me. Like I said, I didn't mind the Halo2 ending. Halo1 ended much the same way (MC alone heading back to earth). This time he was riding on the "Arc of the Covenant".
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« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2006, 08:13:35 PM »

It was supposed to be a cliff-hanger ending according to the developers and they were probably told to do that by LucasArts.   Don't forget that, until a few months before the game was released, LA had plans to do KOTOR 3 internally.  So, at the time KOTOR 2 was being developed a KOTOR 3 was pretty much guaranteed.

KOTOR 3 will probably happen at some point; the first two games did well enough to justify another sequel.
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Starshifter
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« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2006, 12:39:02 PM »

Just noticed this at theforce.net with the last sentence being at least encouraging:

A few no shows at the event included KOTOR III and, surprise surprise, Star Wars Galaxies. The MMORPG seems to be lacking of late, and with no expansion packs in sight for the time being, LucasArts may have finally let the title slide past. As for KOTOR, which was 20/80 whether it would make an appearance or not, don't take that as an answer on whether it exists.  It's out there, don't you worry about that.
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godhugh
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« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2006, 03:32:26 PM »

On a semi-related note...

Are the KOTOR games playable on the XBox 360?
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Starshifter
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« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2006, 04:25:04 PM »

Quote from: "godhugh"
On a semi-related note...

Are the KOTOR games playable on the XBox 360?

Yes, I believe both are on the backwards compatible list.
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