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Author Topic: KoTOR 2 : The Sith Lords Impressions  (Read 12813 times)
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2004, 01:35:24 AM »

I just want to correct a comment I made earlier- Jeremy Soule did not do the music.  He is credited as "additional music" (presumably material from the first game.   KOTOR 2's score was composed by Mark Grisky, who also did the score for Gladius and Obi-Wan.  

Also, the animation for your character during spacewalk sequence:  Embarrisingly bad.  It looked like a toddler wearing Pampers running around.  Was it like that in the first game?

KOTOR 2 also has a playable Republic Commando demo.  Its fun, pretty, and *very* derivative of Halo.
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« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2004, 01:36:02 AM »

Quote from: "vagabond"
For example in any reasonably sized city in the world you could go and get a Samurai sword from a few centuries back if you looked a bit and had the money. Still having fun with the game though.


Yes, I agree.  With all the Jedi fragged, you would think that wealthy collectors would be able to buy lightsabers, just to hang them on the mantle.  Similar to the way Japanese swords are collected by people who just want them as collector's items.

Would have been interesting to have seen quests like this.   Rich dude has lightsaber, you have to figure out how to get it without letting him know you are Jedi.  Sneak, buy, or do some quests for him.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2004, 03:45:36 AM »

Alright- I need some help.  I think I may have screwed up when giving my recount of what happened in the first game.

Huge KOTOR 1 Spoiler Below...
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I *thought* I said that Revan ultimately saved the galaxy (ie turned to the light).  However, later, when Keira is filling in some background she refers to Jedi who fell sway to Revan's teachings and also the Civil War after Revan's Fall.  None of this matches what I would have expected had Revan been good.  Did I screw up?
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End Spoiler.
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Yossarian
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« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2004, 03:48:03 AM »

one hour in.  tutorial completed.  extremely bored.
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malichai11
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« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2004, 04:20:10 AM »

7 hours in, no lightsaber yet. I skipped the tutorial though, I knew that was going to be a grind. I've finally reached the point where I can fly anywhere and do anything, so that's cool. But, I'd sure like a lightsaber.
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ChrisGwinn
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« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2004, 04:48:44 AM »

I don't know.  The galaxy is a pretty big place.  Even if there were a 100 jedi per planet (which seems high, from what we've seen), that's not very many light sabers.
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« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2004, 04:58:28 AM »

Person askin if game was broken...

I dont have the game, so take this with a grain of salt - but it doesnt necessarily sound like you entered it wrong.  Remember before KOTOR happened, many Jedi DID fall sway to Revan's teachin - he WAS the Dark Lord after all.  And maybe theyre fillin in about the Civil War (which we are to assume gave rise to Malack (was that his name???)) that occured after the Jedi stole Revan and reprogrammed him.  

Like I said I haven't played the second one, but this does sound consistant with fillin in some backstory of what happened before KOTOR took place.  Maybe later youll start findin people who talk about Revan "comin to his senses" and savin the galaxy?  (ie the stuff you did durin the game... not what occured beforehand?).  Someone tell me if Im completely off base and misinterpretin what happened to your particular game.  If not see if the above makes sense in hindsight when you rethink the conversation.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2004, 05:17:59 AM »

Yeah, some further comments have lead me to believe I may not have screwed it up.

I do think, however, I am going to shelve the game for now and hold off for the PC version.  It feels very sloppy technically (much moreso than the first game) and hopefully most of my issues will be alleviated with that version.  

The core gameplay seems just as good, if not better, than the first game and the premise is very interesting.  It pains me to shelve it but my gut tells me that I'll enjoy the game much more on the PC.
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« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2004, 08:49:55 AM »

Quote from: "malichai11"
7 hours in, no lightsaber yet. I skipped the tutorial though, I knew that was going to be a grind. I've finally reached the point where I can fly anywhere and do anything, so that's cool. But, I'd sure like a lightsaber.



20 hours in and no lightsaber.

Edit About 21 hours I got a lightsaber, actually 2 at once, single and double, or I could have made another double had I wished to.


Mild Spoiler about Lightsaber

If you want the lightsabers as fast as possible go to Korriban when you can travel.  You MIGHT be able to get one elsewhere but I know for sure you can on Korriban.
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« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2004, 08:52:05 AM »

Quote from: "ChrisGwinn"
I don't know.  The galaxy is a pretty big place.  Even if there were a 100 jedi per planet (which seems high, from what we've seen), that's not very many light sabers.



You are talking about at one time though. There have been a 100 jedi per planet at a time for several thousand years.  There would be tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of them by now. Like the Samurai swords, there weren't that many at any one time, it took a man a whole month to make just one, but over centuries they accumulate.
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« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2004, 08:54:00 AM »

About 20 hours in, having a ton of fun. The games framerate drops so bad it lags or "chatters" sometimes making it so you can't control the character usually right when combat starts. Not fatal or anything but it is unnerving when it happens.
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« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2004, 01:19:21 PM »

Loving the game myself and I am about 7 hrs into it. I really liked the first one and this one is pretty much the same. I'm not liking the fact that it takes so long to get a lightsaber but at least its not like the first one and you actually get to start out as a Jedi from the beginning..
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ChrisGwinn
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« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2004, 02:54:20 PM »

Quote from: "vagabond"
Quote from: "ChrisGwinn"
I don't know.  The galaxy is a pretty big place.  Even if there were a 100 jedi per planet (which seems high, from what we've seen), that's not very many light sabers.



You are talking about at one time though. There have been a 100 jedi per planet at a time for several thousand years.  There would be tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of them by now. Like the Samurai swords, there weren't that many at any one time, it took a man a whole month to make just one, but over centuries they accumulate.


That assumes the jedi wasn't eaten by a big pit monster, blown up in his spacecraft, crushed in a trash compator, etc.  Or maybe they're perishable.  Or the local cops run a big "turn in your lightsaber" drive.  Or maybe there's a big room on Corruscant full of lightsabers.  Or wookies like to eat them.

There are enough other things that don't really make sense in the star wars universe - the relative scarcity of lightsabers never really bothered me.
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« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2004, 05:01:09 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"

KOTOR 2 also has a playable Republic Commando demo.  Its fun, pretty, and *very* derivative of Halo.


I was going to comment about this.  This looks like it could be a very fun game.  I had not heard of it before I saw the demo, now I am really looking forward to it
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« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2004, 05:03:58 PM »

I am only about 2 hours into it (if that) and I am really enjoying it.

My only regret is that I know I will really get into the game, play the heck out of it, finish it as the light side. Then play it as the dark side, finish it  (probably within the next week or two).. and then have to wait another year to get the next one (assuming there will be a 3rd)
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« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2004, 08:11:00 PM »

Loving it here.

Its KOTOR all over again and that is a good thing.

The framerate hitches are annoying though.  That shouldnt happen.  Some places remind me of DX2 its so sluggish.

The documentation is also woeful, again.  Impossible to plan character development when you dont know feat and force power progression, skill points per level, etc.

olaf
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« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2004, 08:22:08 PM »

There are enough other things that don't really make sense in the star wars universe - the relative scarcity of lightsabers never really bothered me.<<<<<


Whatta ya mean? It all makes perfect sense cept for the sabers thing. :lol:


Finally got a prestige class right after I made level 15. Think it was like level 6 in the last game?  Got it and the saber at the same time so big boost in power. Not sure but in this game it seems the light side and dark mean more. In the last I felt it didn't really matter, your comrades responded the same etc. Seems, like they are affected by your side and are drawn to that side. Might make a darkside play more worthwhile than lasttime. I started one, but didn't finish because it was the same then.
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« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2004, 08:35:40 PM »

Quote from: "vagabond"
Not sure but in this game it seems the light side and dark mean more. In the last I felt it didn't really matter, your comrades responded the same etc. Seems, like they are affected by your side and are drawn to that side. Might make a darkside play more worthwhile than lasttime. I started one, but didn't finish because it was the same then.


Yup, the effect your alignment has on those of your party members is one of the major new features with KOTOR 2.
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« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2004, 10:19:09 PM »

Or could it be that the sith are hunting down anyone with a lightsaber, Jedi or not?
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« Reply #59 on: December 09, 2004, 12:21:47 AM »

Quote from: "Devil"
I see KOTOR (and other big franchises that I don't like) as a case of it being MY problem, not the game. KOTOR was universally loved by most gamers and critics. Is everyone else wrong? I think it's me, but I have no problem with that.


I feel you.  This so happened to me with Prince of Persia, Sands of time.  Rented it, hated it, and later bought the damn thing because I started to wonder if I had missed something or not given it a chance.  I've determined that there are too many AAA titles out there to waste time trying to love one that doesn't grab me immediately.  That sound you hear is developers swallowing poison.
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« Reply #60 on: December 09, 2004, 12:55:55 AM »

Quote from: "vagabond"
Finally got a prestige class right after I made level 15. Think it was like level 6 in the last game?  Got it and the saber at the same time so big boost in power.


Really? I'm level 16, almost 17, and have had a lightsaber for quite sometime, but no prestige class options. Where did that happen for you? I've been to Dantoine and Korriban and am now on the crime world.
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« Reply #61 on: December 09, 2004, 01:45:34 AM »

Quote from: "malichai11"
Quote from: "vagabond"
Finally got a prestige class right after I made level 15. Think it was like level 6 in the last game?  Got it and the saber at the same time so big boost in power.


Really? I'm level 16, almost 17, and have had a lightsaber for quite sometime, but no prestige class options. Where did that happen for you? I've been to Dantoine and Korriban and am now on the crime world.



Go talk to Kiela, while onboard the ship.

I got a double bladed lightsaber on Onderon, so you can get one of those there. I would recommend you do Korriban before Onderon because the stuff on Onderon is tougher, made much easier being higher level and having a lightsaber.
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« Reply #62 on: December 09, 2004, 06:45:39 AM »

Quote from: "vagabond"
Not sure but in this game it seems the light side and dark mean more. In the last I felt it didn't really matter, your comrades responded the same etc. Seems, like they are affected by your side and are drawn to that side. Might make a darkside play more worthwhile than lasttime. I started one, but didn't finish because it was the same then.


I'll agree that for the most part everything was the same. But towards the end of the game on the dark side...oh yeah, spoiler warning from the first game...if you are a dark side jedi you kill 2 and possibly 3 members from your team, plus Juhani at the beginning of the game.

It was incredible.

I really want this game, and I'm biding my time playing the first one over again (3rd or 4th time now) until the new year when I'll have time to play it.
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« Reply #63 on: December 09, 2004, 07:33:23 AM »

Guys, first of all... Hello, SPOILER WARNINGS??  :shock:

Second of all, this isn't a KOTOR2 help thread... it's an impressions thread. Please start a new topic if you're going to be tossing out info about the game later on. I just wanted to know what people thought of the game in general terms.

Thanks smile
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« Reply #64 on: December 09, 2004, 07:01:50 PM »

Quote from: "vagabond"
You are talking about at one time though. There have been a 100 jedi per planet at a time for several thousand years.  There would be tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of them by now. Like the Samurai swords, there weren't that many at any one time, it took a man a whole month to make just one, but over centuries they accumulate.


Think about this though; Jedi are hunted... I'm sure the Sith are collecting the lightsabers like trophies; also of the "thousands" of Jedi lost to the Sith, a lot of them were converted to the dark side rather than being killed (at least, that's what some of the info in the dialogue on the asteroid would indicate). Their lightsabers are still very much in use.

The other likely reason is that although there are dead Jedi, knowing that the Exchange (read: the intergalactic Mafia) are looking for more, as a mundane person would *YOU* want to attract the attention of the Exchange 'cuz you were walking around with a lightsaber?

When the Samurai were being hunted, their stuff was still around, but it was hidden for a long damn time  ninja (if Kurosawa is to be believed). Years after the pursecution had passed, the items tend to resurface. This game starts ~10 years after the Mandalorian wars when Revan and Malak were still on the light side. The hunt for Jedi is still fresh, with a sizable bounty on any lightsaber wielding fools. Hell, *I'd* turn you in for enough money.  :twisted:

That being said, I do wish we had lightsabers early on. Ah well.
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ChrisGwinn
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« Reply #65 on: December 09, 2004, 07:55:37 PM »

Why haven't they made eyetoy lightsaber fighting games yet?
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« Reply #66 on: December 09, 2004, 08:38:06 PM »

Quote from: "Purge"
Quote from: "vagabond"
You are talking about at one time though. There have been a 100 jedi per planet at a time for several thousand years.  There would be tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of them by now. Like the Samurai swords, there weren't that many at any one time, it took a man a whole month to make just one, but over centuries they accumulate.


Think about this though; Jedi are hunted... I'm sure the Sith are collecting the lightsabers like trophies; also of the "thousands" of Jedi lost to the Sith, a lot of them were converted to the dark side rather than being killed (at least, that's what some of the info in the dialogue on the asteroid would indicate). Their lightsabers are still very much in use.

The other likely reason is that although there are dead Jedi, knowing that the Exchange (read: the intergalactic Mafia) are looking for more, as a mundane person would *YOU* want to attract the attention of the Exchange 'cuz you were walking around with a lightsaber?

When the Samurai were being hunted, their stuff was still around, but it was hidden for a long damn time  ninja (if Kurosawa is to be believed). Years after the pursecution had passed, the items tend to resurface. This game starts ~10 years after the Mandalorian wars when Revan and Malak were still on the light side. The hunt for Jedi is still fresh, with a sizable bounty on any lightsaber wielding fools. Hell, *I'd* turn you in for enough money.  :twisted:

That being said, I do wish we had lightsabers early on. Ah well.



Yeah, but wasn't there like a thousand years of peace at one time? What about all those jedi that died of natural causes.  Nobody is gonna walk around with a lightsaber who isn't trained to use it because they would die of stupidity soon thereafter and then somebody else would pick the saber up offa their corpse.  :lol:  I am just saying, lightsabers should be very common. Hell some refugee guy in the game gives you one. Where did he get it?
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« Reply #67 on: December 10, 2004, 05:53:43 AM »

Quote from: "vagabond"
Yeah, but wasn't there like a thousand years of peace at one time? What about all those jedi that died of natural causes.  Nobody is gonna walk around with a lightsaber who isn't trained to use it because they would die of stupidity soon thereafter and then somebody else would pick the saber up offa their corpse.  :lol:  I am just saying, lightsabers should be very common. Hell some refugee guy in the game gives you one. Where did he get it?


I think Jedi get buried with their sabres; since they have a strict discipline I'd think they don't go hockin' dead jedi blades.

That being said; is it possible for a non-jedi to wield a lightsabre? (I'm not familiar with the books; I always assumed there was force involved with them).

Not that that has ANYTHING to do with this topic.

Oh, my impressions of this game is as follows:

The story and the multiple branching threads that no one could follow the first run through is worth bearing the sometimes jittery performance.

I'm really taken in by the game.
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« Reply #68 on: December 10, 2004, 08:28:21 AM »

Anyone can use a lightsaber, but only a Jedi can weild them properly (aka, not chopping off thier own limbs and such).

The explanation is that lightsabers are very simple weapons with little or no weight.  Basically, if anything touches the blade, it gets burnt/cut/deflected, etc...  The only weight is the handle, which isn't much.  These two factors combined means it's really easy to swing it in the wrong way and cut your own head off.

Oh and then there's all that deflecting blaster stuff.  If a normal person used a lightsaber, he'd just get shot.

Of course, this doesn't explain why everyone is still using swords in KotOR.  slywink
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« Reply #69 on: December 10, 2004, 09:25:43 AM »

3 hour impressions here:

It has done a much better job of grabbing me.  I had to force myself to play 6 hours of the first KotOR before I quit out of boredom and this early in I'm already hooked into the story.

I've been to a couple of areas of serious chug...one area where I couldn't even figure out why it was running seriously low fps.  Oh well, though.  If it were a first-person-shooter I may be picky...but with an rpg?  No problem here.  

So I guess you can put my impressions into the positive catagory.  I want a fucking lightsaber, though!
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« Reply #70 on: December 10, 2004, 09:49:57 AM »

Quote from: "Turtle"
Anyone can use a lightsaber, but only a Jedi can weild them properly (aka, not chopping off thier own limbs and such).

The explanation is that lightsabers are very simple weapons with little or no weight.  Basically, if anything touches the blade, it gets burnt/cut/deflected, etc...  The only weight is the handle, which isn't much.  These two factors combined means it's really easy to swing it in the wrong way and cut your own head off.

Oh and then there's all that deflecting blaster stuff.  If a normal person used a lightsaber, he'd just get shot.

Of course, this doesn't explain why everyone is still using swords in KotOR.  slywink


And what do you think would happen to you if you hit yourself anywhere with a Samurai sword?  It would take it off just like a lightsaber.  It won't cut through metal bars or anything but anything lighter it will go through. It will cut through cast iron armor no problem.  That is why they made Bokken. It is wooden but has the same balance as a Katana. You practice with that for along time and then you get a real sword. It's also a matter of confidence, otherwise you would be too scared to swing a real one. This from firsthand experience, because I have both.

If the Jedi were buried with their lightsabers, there would be tomb robbers that would get them back too.  Which happened on Korriban.
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« Reply #71 on: December 10, 2004, 10:04:10 AM »

At 42 hours in.  I think I might be near the end, might have awhile still, not sure. A few thoughts. The game is great. I think it is better than the first. I like the story better, I like the characters better. They have more depth and I think your actions actually matter much more in this one.

This said and because I think most things said are going to be positive I am going to give what I don't like.  The game is far too easy. Perhaps I should have played on hard level, but I always play first on normal because that is what the game is usually balanced for. I will try hard if I play again. I have never really been pressed. I have never used a medpack. They give you all this stuff but 99 percent of it is useless or worthless. Only a lightsaber and it's fixtures matter much. You can make all this stuff but I haven't made anything. Not necessary.

It is far too easy to max out the lightside. Last game it was REALLY easy to max out the dark. I maxed out light, well before halfway in the game. That makes gaining lightside points moot afterward. I did get Visas maxed in light too, none of the others tho.

There are math puzzles in the game. Let me say that again, THERE ARE MATH PUZZLES IN THE GAME!  WTF!  I don't even do my Algebra homework and they want me to do math puzzles for fun? NADA it sucks. Word to all designers everywhere. If all it is going to do is make somebody save and reload a bunch of times, leave it out of the game for chrisakes!

Lastly and more seriously, what many have already mentioned the massive slowdowns. Sometimes it makes it where you can hardly fight and it certainly takes a lot away from the game. I had one fatal crash, the game just locked up and I had to reboot. It is really disturbing when it chatters over the music or dialog. Doesn't happen often but it does happen. Not sure why they can't make these without that problem. Also the load times are terrible. Might not have any choice with the Xbox limitations but still sucks. Nuff for now.
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« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2004, 10:06:28 AM »

Quote from: "Turtle"
Oh and then there's all that deflecting blaster stuff.  If a normal person used a lightsaber, he'd just get shot.


Yeah, but if the blasters were really as inaccurate as they are portrayed everybody would use shotguns instead.  :lol:  Not to mention what is the point in all the sith and stormtroopers wearing armor when all the blasters and lightsabers go right through it. :lol:
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« Reply #73 on: December 10, 2004, 02:39:09 PM »

Quote from: "Turtle"
Of course, this doesn't explain why everyone is still using swords in KotOR.


Actually there was a throwaway explanation for this in KOTOR.  Basically the widespread availability of energy shields for both the Sith and Republic made blaster combat ineffective causing a switch over to melee weapons.  

Of course, it seems to me that bullets would have been a better alternative but...
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« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2004, 03:21:05 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Of course, it seems to me that bullets would have been a better alternative but...


We're not employing logic here, Kevin. slywink This is a Star Wars discussion. Get with the program. :lol:
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« Reply #75 on: December 10, 2004, 03:31:43 PM »

Quote from: "vagabond"
At 42 hours in.  
  ???


The game was released on the 6th but not even in most stores until the 7th.

Assuming you got it at 10 AM on the 7th that means there has only been 72 hours since then.  

You really have played over half the hours total since Tuesday?  Do you have a job?  Do you sleep?

I am not disputing your numbers but I just find it amazing (and odd) that someone would spend that much time simply playing a video game.
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« Reply #76 on: December 10, 2004, 03:33:43 PM »

Quote from: "farley2k"
Quote from: "vagabond"
At 42 hours in.  
  ???

I am not disputing your numbers but I just find it amazing (and odd) that someone would spend that much time simply playing a video game.


I've got 112 hours logged... I'm playing it on four consoles simultaneously with two tvs with twinview....

god bless my opposable toes. biggrin
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ChrisGwinn
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« Reply #77 on: December 10, 2004, 03:36:50 PM »

There's a non-jedi using a lightsaber in KOTOR1.  And he's a collector.

There are also little children using a lightsaber in one of the recent movies.  So presumably you can run lower-power training sabers.  Don't you get one of those in Jedi Academy?
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Turtle
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« Reply #78 on: December 10, 2004, 08:29:13 PM »

Actually the key difference to any sword there is today is the lack of any blade edge.

So if you touch yourself anywhere you'll get cut, not just when you're swinging.
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vagabond
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« Reply #79 on: December 10, 2004, 08:59:18 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Turtle"
Of course, this doesn't explain why everyone is still using swords in KotOR.


Actually there was a throwaway explanation for this in KOTOR.  Basically the widespread availability of energy shields for both the Sith and Republic made blaster combat ineffective causing a switch over to melee weapons.  

Of course, it seems to me that bullets would have been a better alternative but...


Yeah, mebbe more effective but not nearly as cool.  :lol:  What bothers me is that after Jedi's have continually slaughtered hundreds singlehandedly, there is still a bounty hunter with his two thugs that thinks they can kill one.  Or that everybody just doesn't run for their lives! :lol:
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