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Author Topic: Konami: PS3 price drop isn't enough, MGS4 might go multiplatform  (Read 1745 times)
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Destructor
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« on: July 10, 2007, 11:56:43 AM »

Via Next-Gen:

Quote
Speaking to Reuters, Kitaue, head of Konami's North American and European operations, said that the PlayStation 3, even at a reduced price of $499, was still comparatively expensive.

"I wonder if Sony can win back user support by the price cut of just $100," said Kitaue. "I don't expect a substantial impact. With $500, you can buy a personal computer."

Kitaue also indicated that while Konami would like to keep the latest Metal Gear Solid title a PlayStation 3 exclusive, a desire to see a return on large development costs coupled with a smaller than anticipated PS3 user base could see the game headed for Xbox 360 too.

"Since Metal Gear Solid was born for the PlayStation, we would like to keep it a PlayStation game. But we might have to take some steps," Kitaue said.

Oof.

And from the Nintendo camp (via Next-Gen again):

Quote
Mike Jackson of CVG writes that George Harrison, Nintendo vice president, stated that the firm isnít at all threatened by Sonyís latest move. He implies that a $200 price cut would be necessary to significantly boost sales of the console.

"A $100 price drop won't make a difference," said Harrison. "Can Sony afford a $200 price drop? I don't think so," he added.

Time will obviously tell what happens in the end-game.
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2007, 12:26:25 PM »

Wow,wow, wow. Why do we keep acting like the MGS4 rumors are new things? Konami has hinted for MONTHS that MGS4 might not stay PS3 exclusive. What IS likely, however, is that it will debut on PS3 for a period of exclusivity, whether paid for or not-probably 6 months or so. It will eventually make its way to 360 too I think its fair to say.

This is just another in the long line of hints.
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2007, 02:26:28 PM »

Also, it may be that MGS4 sells just fine on the PS3 after pushing its sales.  Konami needs to clamp down on its loud mouth execs and developers if it wants to get PS3 sales, otherwise statements like this can only hurt PS3 sales.

Right now, too much in the air, and MGS isn't coming out this year.  If Sony puts out a bunch of games this year they might recover enough.  No one really knows for sure.  Even if one guy starts spouting something now, you may see Sony paying Konami craploads of money for more than just a timed exclusive.
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2007, 02:31:59 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on July 10, 2007, 02:26:28 PM

Also, it may be that MGS4 sells just fine on the PS3 after pushing its sales.  Konami needs to clamp down on its loud mouth execs and developers if it wants to get PS3 sales, otherwise statements like this can only hurt PS3 sales.

Konami doesn't care about PS3 sales- they just want to make a profit on MGS4 and if that means releasing it on the 360 too then so be it. 

I think this is just escalation from the publishers- it sounds like there has been a lot of frustration "behind the scenes" with Sony by publishers who feel almost betrayed by PS3 pricing. 

I think Sony depended on good faith behind their brand name instead of straight moneyhats when lining up exclusives in the period before the pricing announcment last E3 and a lot of the those developers (Capcom and DMC4, Sega and Virtua Fighter 5, Konami and MGS4 and probably SE and FF13) are feeling burned by the whole affair.  So I think the message for the last year has been consistently "get the price down and sell some units or we're jumpiing ship" and after 8 months of bad news more and more publishers are ready to go public with their complaints.

However given that MGS4 isn't expected until Spring 2008 I think it's entirely reasonable to expect another price drop before then. 
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2007, 02:33:34 PM »

I can't see there being any significant PS3 exclusives at this point.  Game publishers are going to look at the installed base, and they aren't going to give much weight to people willing to spend over $500 just to play their game.

And, yeah, this isn't "new" news.
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2007, 02:38:42 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on July 10, 2007, 02:33:34 PM

I can't see there being any significant PS3 exclusives at this point.  Game publishers are going to look at the installed base, and they aren't going to give much weight to people willing to spend over $500 just to play their game.

Outside of first parties (obviously) I agree.  Though I think something like the Haze timed exclusivity (is that confirmed?) is a good strategy.  Something like Haze is likely to serve a stronger niche on PS3 than on the 360 post Halo 3.  By the same token, Sony should probably push Midway for timed exclusivity on Area 51 Blacksite- it's going to get slaughtered releasing on 360 in September but, again, it would serve a need nicely on the PS3 at that time. 
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2007, 02:48:21 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on July 10, 2007, 02:38:42 PM

By the same token, Sony should probably push Midway for timed exclusivity on Area 51 Blacksite- it's going to get slaughtered releasing on 360 in September but, again, it would serve a need nicely on the PS3 at that time. 

but then won't they risk alienating the fans who are eagerly awaiting the 360 version?  If anything, Midway should smarten up and push back the release altogether.
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2007, 02:54:17 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 10, 2007, 02:48:21 PM

but then won't they risk alienating the fans who are eagerly awaiting the 360 version?  If anything, Midway should smarten up and push back the release altogether.

There are fans eagerly awaiting the 360 version?

Any FPS stands a risk of being way overshadowed at least through the holidays following Halo 3's launch.  The 360's first and third part lineup is so jam packed from September onward that I think any second tier title (which I would classify Blacksite as) is likely to be overshadowed no matter what unless they push it into '08. 

The PS3, unfortunately, does not have as packed of a lineup and even with the major exclusives it does have (Lair, Heavenly Sword, Ratchet & Clank, Uncharted), they are so diverse that only one of them (Killzone 2) even shares the same genre with Blacksite.
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2007, 02:57:10 PM »

I saw an interview with Jack Trenton on G4 last night where he said that Sony does not pay 3rd parties for exclusivity.  I'm sure Konami started building the game strictly on PS3.  But recent events have caused them to fire up a 360 version sooner than they anticipated. If that is the case I think we will see a 360 version of Metal Gear as soon as Konami can finish it.  If that happens to be at the same time as the PS3 version so be it.
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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2007, 03:00:10 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on July 10, 2007, 02:57:10 PM

I saw an interview with Jack Trenton on G4 last night where he said that Sony does not pay 3rd parties for exclusivity.  I

I don't believe his comment.  Or at least I think he's fudging.  Sony does *something* for 3rd parties.  If it's not paying outright then it's probably lowering the licensing fees or providing some level of additional marketing.  Maybe they don't go to a company and say "we'll pay you $10 milion for PS3 exclusivity" but developers are getting some kind of compensation in the end. 
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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2007, 04:05:34 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on July 10, 2007, 03:00:10 PM

I don't believe his comment.  Or at least I think he's fudging. 

That is certainly possible.  My question then would be; Why say that?  If I am considering purchasing a PS3 I would love to hear Sony telling me that they are doing everything possible to bring third party games to their console and optimize them for their more powerful hardware. 
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« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2007, 04:10:24 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on July 10, 2007, 04:05:34 PM

My question then would be; Why say that? 

that could be applied to many of Sony's statements over the past year or so.
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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2007, 04:19:07 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on July 10, 2007, 04:05:34 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on July 10, 2007, 03:00:10 PM

I don't believe his comment.  Or at least I think he's fudging. 

That is certainly possible.  My question then would be; Why say that?  If I am considering purchasing a PS3 I would love to hear Sony telling me that they are doing everything possible to bring third party games to their console and optimize them for their more powerful hardware. 

I think there is some kind of truth there- there have been stories that, under Kuturagi's reign, Sony was specifically solicited to make Assassins Creed and GTA4 exclusive and Sony never acted on those offers, either through complete incompetence or because they thought that Ubi and Take 2 needed them more than the other way around.  So I think, in general, Sony came into this generation with the attitude that they wouldn't need to write so many checks as they had before; that exclusives would happen naturally.

Now that's backfired and I think it's not so much that Sony, as a policy, *won't* pay for exclusives, but their missteps have made it too expensive.  Too make exclusivity worth it to a publisher you have to compensate them for potential lost sales they would gain by being multiplatform.  Given the huge disparity now between 360 and PS3 install bases, that's a *huge* amount of money they would have to front to make it worth a publishers while.

So I don't think we'll see many huge IPs go exclusive to Sony now.  They can probably make some deals with smaller IPs like the rumored Haze timed exclusivity but Sony probably thinks it's better to invest their money in development of first and second party software instead.

The flipside is it makes it cheaper for MS to get exclusives since they only have to buy out what the publisher would have made on the PS3 platform and it's small install base.  So while Sony might have to compensate for 750k or more in lost sales by not going 360, MS probably only has to compensate for 200k or less.  And given that most reports have MS being the easier development environment as well as the 360 as the lead development platform, and it's that much easier to talk publishers into going 360 exclusive.

But this is all PS3 specific.  I'm pretty sure that Guitar Hero Rock the 80s is a PS2 exclusive of some sort and I'm sure they gave Activision some kind of deal on that.  And I think there's a damn good chance that Sony might have had timed exclusivity on GH2 last fall for PS2. 

I do think Sony might be willing to spend some major coin to keep FF13 exclusive and maybe ensure MGS4 timed exclusivity but I'll be shocked if they have any major new third party exclusive announcements tonight.   
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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2007, 06:58:23 PM »

if this is what Konami are thinking after the $100 price drop,i wonder what they were thinking before it

again,i would love to see this title happen on the 360,maybe some XBOX LIVE multiplay would be great
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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2007, 07:11:15 PM »

Didn't Katamari Damacy jump the Sony ship recently as well?
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« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2007, 07:13:57 PM »

Sony wants to sell Blu-Ray machines in 2 or 3 years, not PS3's.  They're branching out.  They may lose this generation of consoles, but if the 360 and Wii have proven anything, it's always possible to make a comeback the next generation.  MS isn't dealing with a tiny startup with a great idea, Sony is at least as big and powerful.
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« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2007, 07:14:48 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on July 10, 2007, 07:11:15 PM

Didn't Katamari Damacy jump the Sony ship recently as well?

Yes.  After MGS4, it's on to FF. slywink

http://kotaku.com/gaming/playstation-3/ps3-beautiful-katamari-binned-276579.php
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« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2007, 08:17:28 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on July 10, 2007, 04:05:34 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on July 10, 2007, 03:00:10 PM

I don't believe his comment.  Or at least I think he's fudging. 

That is certainly possible.  My question then would be; Why say that?  If I am considering purchasing a PS3 I would love to hear Sony telling me that they are doing everything possible to bring third party games to their console and optimize them for their more powerful hardware. 

Maybe they just don't want to admit it publicly so other developers start getting ideas and they have more coming to them "hat in hand" saying whats it worth to them to keep or make the game exclusive. They probably want to just keep it to the very highest tier of developer like Kojima.
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« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2007, 09:05:08 PM »

Sony, it seems, is currently stuck in the position of having to pay publishers for exclusivity due to sales they would have made had they not been exclusive (rather than, like with the PS2, being the best platform to release on).

Had they locked in people early... those people might be really pissed with Sony right now.  So perhaps it's a good thing, but on the other hand it may have helped their sales a bit.  But I doubt that latter part, since I don't think Sony wants to sell too many PS3's until they can lower their production costs.

It's seeming more and more like the PS3 was just about getting Blu-Ray into people's homes.
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« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2007, 10:23:52 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on July 10, 2007, 09:05:08 PM

Had they locked in people early... those people might be really pissed with Sony right now.  So perhaps it's a good thing, but on the other hand it may have helped their sales a bit.  But I doubt that latter part, since I don't think Sony wants to sell too many PS3's until they can lower their production costs.


I think they would rather have companies pissed at them while developing exclusives, than happy and focusing on the 360 as the flagship platform for their games.
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« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2007, 10:44:46 PM »

Quote from: Dirt on July 10, 2007, 07:13:57 PM

Sony wants to sell Blu-Ray machines in 2 or 3 years, not PS3's.  They're branching out.  They may lose this generation of consoles, but if the 360 and Wii have proven anything, it's always possible to make a comeback the next generation.  MS isn't dealing with a tiny startup with a great idea, Sony is at least as big and powerful.

I think you got it backwards Sony is not anywhere as big or powerful as Microsoft. Bill gates is worth 6 or 7 times the cash reserves of Sony by himself.
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« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2007, 10:51:58 PM »

Quote from: Dirt on July 10, 2007, 07:13:57 PM

Sony wants to sell Blu-Ray machines in 2 or 3 years, not PS3's.  They're branching out.  They may lose this generation of consoles, but if the 360 and Wii have proven anything, it's always possible to make a comeback the next generation.  MS isn't dealing with a tiny startup with a great idea, Sony is at least as big and powerful.

I disagree with most of your reply. This generation of consoles has barely begun, there's no telling whether the Wii will be considered a comeback for Nintendo by the time the generation is over. Secondly, I don't look at the 360 as any sort of "comeback" because the Xbox wasn't any sort of failure, it entered the market and stole second place from Nintendo. That being said, I honestly don't see where Konami stands to gain anything by making MGS4 exclusive to the PS3. Infact, they really should be working on a Wii version as well.
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« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2007, 11:53:27 PM »

Quote from: pingwrx on July 10, 2007, 10:44:46 PM

Quote from: Dirt on July 10, 2007, 07:13:57 PM

Sony wants to sell Blu-Ray machines in 2 or 3 years, not PS3's.  They're branching out.  They may lose this generation of consoles, but if the 360 and Wii have proven anything, it's always possible to make a comeback the next generation.  MS isn't dealing with a tiny startup with a great idea, Sony is at least as big and powerful.

I think you got it backwards Sony is not anywhere as big or powerful as Microsoft. Bill gates is worth 6 or 7 times the cash reserves of Sony by himself.
Bill Gates has the cash reserves, but no Microsoft.  They're completely different entities.
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« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2007, 11:54:43 PM »

Quote from: pingwrx on July 10, 2007, 10:44:46 PM

I think you got it backwards Sony is not anywhere as big or powerful as Microsoft. Bill gates is worth 6 or 7 times the cash reserves of Sony by himself.

Bill Gates should just buy Sony!
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« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2007, 12:24:31 AM »

Quote from: Dirt on July 10, 2007, 11:53:27 PM

Bill Gates has the cash reserves, but no Microsoft.  They're completely different entities.

Huh?

Microsoft has ~$30 billion in the bank.  Certainly less that the $60-some billion back in 2004, but a pretty reasonable sum.  The company's been reducing the cash reserves for a couple of years through dividends and stock buybacks because it doesn't make sense to hang on to that much money.
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« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2007, 02:57:21 AM »

And now Square Enix has more or less said the same thing:

Quote
John Yamamoto, president and CEO of Square Enix's European and North American subsidiaries, has warned that gamers may still think PS3 is too expensive despite the recently announced price cut.

Speaking to GamesIndustry.biz at the E3 Media and Business Summit Yamamoto said, "We're watching the hardware trends closely and also the marketing strategy of the platform holders.

"I think USD 500 for PS3 is still a bit expensive for most gamers. Most of them think that price is still high."
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« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2007, 03:06:47 AM »

They can say that, of course, but as always it depends on sales.  This should be priority 1 for Sony to do what they can to keep Square and Kojima in step.

However, the odd thing is that some are saying that the MGS dev costs go to around 10 million.  That's not too much money to pay to get an exclusive on a game that would well a lot of consoles.  Heck Sony could try to turn these games into loss leaders, giving these companies larger shares of the sales profit in order to drive system sales.

I do however disagree that this'll kill Sony.  Everyone is so quick to say Sony is doomed, blah blah blah.  The system hasn't been out a year yet and E3 just barely started.
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« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2007, 03:11:28 AM »

I still don't think Metal Gear will sell as many consoles as people think.  I think a great many people who are interested in Metal Gear 4 already have a next gen console.  MGS is not really a mainstream game in my opinion.
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« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2007, 03:31:23 AM »

Quote from: denoginizer on July 11, 2007, 03:11:28 AM

I still don't think Metal Gear will sell as many consoles as people think.  I think a great many people who are interested in Metal Gear 4 already have a next gen console.  MGS is not really a mainstream game in my opinion.

It is and it isn't.  I also think people overstate it's importance but MGS3 sold over 3.5 million worldwide even after MGS2 weeded out a lot of people from the series.  It's still very top tier in terms of sales but not at the level of a Halo or GTA. 

Quote from: Turtle on July 11, 2007, 03:06:47 AM

However, the odd thing is that some are saying that the MGS dev costs go to around 10 million. 

Red Steel cost Ubi $11 million.  Lost Planet cost Capcom $20 million and Lair is reportedly over $25 million.  No way does MGS4 only cost $10 million. 
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« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2007, 03:39:04 AM »

Quote from: Brendan on July 11, 2007, 12:24:31 AM

Quote from: Dirt on July 10, 2007, 11:53:27 PM

Bill Gates has the cash reserves, but no Microsoft.  They're completely different entities.

Huh?

Microsoft has ~$30 billion in the bank.  Certainly less that the $60-some billion back in 2004, but a pretty reasonable sum.  The company's been reducing the cash reserves for a couple of years through dividends and stock buybacks because it doesn't make sense to hang on to that much money.

Do not confuse Dirt with facts.

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« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2007, 03:41:55 AM »

MGS seems like one of those series that are guaranteed sales up to a certain point, and then it just sits on shelves.  So basically it releases, all the people who know and like the game buy it, of which there are still quite a few fans left after MGS 2 and 3.  It'll drive system sales in that these fans will get the game and the system its on, but it can't be counted on to provide long term sales.

I think 4 will sell better if only because it's supposed to end the story of Solid Snake, deal with all the leftover threads from MGS1 and that's what people wanted to see in 2.

Well, either way, if MS pays $50 million for GTA content, Sony should be looking to do the same... Unless they know that the MGS series isn't what it used to be.  Then they're probably courting Square more.  Remember Square actually has no system loyalty, they went from nintendo to PS1 and stuck with PS2 because that was the popular system.
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« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2007, 03:47:13 AM »

MS didn't "pay" Take 2 $50 million for GTA4 downloadable content.  They "loaned" them $50 milllion- they paid out an advance based on expected sales.  Most companies probably wouldn't find such a deal appealing but Take 2 seems pretty starved for cash right now. 
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« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2007, 01:49:38 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on July 11, 2007, 03:31:23 AM

Red Steel cost Ubi $11 million.   

Egads!!!!

That might be the worst $11 million ever spent.

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« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2007, 01:53:46 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on July 11, 2007, 01:49:38 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on July 11, 2007, 03:31:23 AM

Red Steel cost Ubi $11 million.   

Egads!!!!

That might be the worst $11 million ever spent.



Well, Ubisoft was quite happy with Red Steel's sales.  Despite poor reviews they sold over a million copies and are working on a sequel. 
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« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2007, 03:04:08 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on July 11, 2007, 03:41:55 AM

I think 4 will sell better if only because it's supposed to end the story of Solid Snake, deal with all the leftover threads from MGS1 and that's what people wanted to see in 2.

sounds like they will have to have alot of flashbacks to catch up anyone playing MGS for the first time.
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« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2007, 03:09:24 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 11, 2007, 03:04:08 PM

Quote from: Turtle on July 11, 2007, 03:41:55 AM

I think 4 will sell better if only because it's supposed to end the story of Solid Snake, deal with all the leftover threads from MGS1 and that's what people wanted to see in 2.

sounds like they will have to have alot of flashbacks to catch up anyone playing MGS for the first time.

Doubtful.  They might pull a "Darkness of Shadow Moses" (100+ page recap of MGS1 featured in MGS2) and maybe Gamestop can get an exclusive recap video if you preorder or soemthing but everything is way too convoluted to bring people up to speed in-game.  I'm sure there will be some review but I think anyone entering the series for the first time is likely to be baffled (to be fair, it may not be much different for us longtime fans icon_wink)
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